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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    :lemon: 2004 Oldsmobile Bravada

    wow, a 21st Century Oldsmobile? I'd of guessed they were extinct in 1994, not 2004. When did they stop making those lemons? :lemon:
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    I'll give you that the Caliber was a horrible car. But there's no way you are correct in saying it was WORSE than the Neon made pre-Daimler. The Neon was at LEAST equally as bad, if not worse. The fact that Chrysler wasn't improving one iota over time wouldn't surprise me, as they were still using mid-70's era 3-speed auto transmissions up until the end of the 20th Century.

    But there is no way you can argue that Daimler sent Chrysler downhill; they were already at the bottom. Read through the 200 reviews on the autos user review sections on msn.com of the 1995-1999 Dodge Neons.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    If Daimler could go back in time with 20/20 hindsight, I'd bet a week's wages they wouldn't have bought Chrysler back when they did.

    Also, if Cerebus could do the same, I don't think they would have bought Chrysler either.

    They were both idiots for buying a "dying" company in my opinion. I don't think they realized how bad it was.

    So would Chrysler/Fiat even exist today without those 2 buyouts? I have a feeling they'd of gone bankrupt even earlier and sooner! What say you?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    It is kind of amusing that both Chrysler and MB had some of their worst products during the partnership.

    Not only that, but I'm sure there are thousands out there like me, that had been burned by Chrysler, and swore them off for life like me. When Daimler bought them, I could have won a $100 million dollar lottery and bought many new and exotic cars, but a Mercedes would not have been one of them simply because they "touched" Chrysler.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    If Daimler could go back in time with 20/20 hindsight, I'd bet a week's wages they wouldn't have bought Chrysler back when they did.


    I dunno... Chrysler did have a wad of cash at the time.

    From: http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pdf/2002-1-0071.pdf

    In the mid-1990s, Chrysler Corporation was the most profitable automotive producer in the world. Buoyed by record light truck, van, and large sedan sales, revenues were at an all-time high. Chrysler had taken a risk in producing vehicles that captured the bold and pioneering American spirit when imports dominated the market – the Dodge Ram, the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the LH Sedan Series. In these vehicles Chrysler found an instant mass appeal, and its U.S. market share climbed to 23% in 1997. As revenues and market share rose, product development costs shrank to 2.8% of revenues - compared with 6% at Ford and 8% at General Motors.

    Of course, there are 2 ways to interpret the last sentence in the above quote. Were they more efficient, or simply gutting development investment costs?

    Also, if Cerebus could do the same, I don't think they would have bought Chrysler either.

    No disagreement there.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    Of course, there are 2 ways to interpret the last sentence in the above quote. Were they more efficient, or simply gutting development investment costs?

    My interpretation is pretty obvious.

    They were selling cars worth 7,500 dollars for 15,000, and cars worth 10K for $20K. They would never step up to stand behind the product out of warranty for most folks.

    They were selling tons and tons of replacement parts to the suckers that bought all those :lemon: . It was a business model that was not sustainable, but good while it lasted (unless you bought one of their products).

    No doubt they made a lot of money! Ill-gotten gains I say.

    I wonder what Rob Nardelli and Iacocca and other CEO's of Chrysler drove around in and bought with their own money?
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    They were selling cars worth 7,500 dollars for 15,000, and cars worth 10K for $20K. They would never step up to stand behind the product out of warranty for most folks.

    Not bad work if you can get it...

    My personal experience with Chrysler warranty services was great on the vehicles I owned from 1978 - 1995. After that, it went south in a big way on the 2000 Concorde and 2001 T & C minivan I bought. To be fair, though, the T & C had few issues, but then again I only kept it 4 years...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,591
    Some people who bought MB then had similar experiences. I know a woman who's parents bought an early (98-99) SLK - absolute lemon, was broken more often than not. Early MLs were also disastrous.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    Here is my favorite color:

    image

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I like it too, but all 3 of our cars are blue! I may go red next time since speed cams have taken over most ticketing.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,910
    Some of my favorite car colors are blues and the more tasteful greens. But, somehow, of all the cars I've had, only three have been in that spectrum: My first car, a medium blue metallic 1980 Malibu, a "Jadestone" (silvery greenish-blue) '82 Cutlass Supreme, and a midnight blue 1979 New Yorker.

    There's a light blue I've seen on the Corvette, called "Carlisle Blue", I think, that I really like. Not really a traditional sports car color, but I still think it's pretty eye-catching.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I may go with a pearl white. Apple has made white popular, no longer just for appliances.

    But it doesn't look right on certain cars. Cruze yes, Corvette no.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    What if it were a metallic white? Or better, Mazda's got a combo Pearl/Metallic white they use, that would look pretty sharp.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,910
    I'd have to see it in person, but I tend to think of those pearly/metallic whites as a luxury car color, and not really a sporty car color. But, back in the '89-94 period, the Maxima had a pearl white that looked really good on it.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I may go with a pearl white. Apple has made white popular, no longer just for appliances.

    But it doesn't look right on certain cars. Cruze yes, Corvette no.


    I always thought a white Corvette convertible with bright red interior was a great combination. I had a 96 Vette with Camel interior, and it was pleasing, but I think I would have enjoyed it more if the interior had been red.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    I personally prefer black metallics, red metallics, and blue metallics but I can see how some whites can look pretty sharp.

    I wonder if they'll start doing matte colors on the 'Vette? Gunmetal grey looks pretty good in matte.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    There's a light blue I've seen on the Corvette, called "Carlisle Blue", I think, that I really like. Not really a traditional sports car color, but I still think it's pretty eye-catching.

    I like that or Jetstream Blue also.

    image

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited January 2013
    Carlisle Blue is my choice in Corvette colors--the 2013 models, anyway.

    I like something on a Corvette that doesn't scream "Hey, look here! I'm a Corvette!!!".

    To me, that's bright red or bright yellow, mostly, that would do that.

    I gotta say, I miss red interiors in cars though. I'd probably have to go with white to get that, though...no exterior red for me.

    A coworker and I were working in Nashville in '06, on a really boring job, and we played hooky one day by going to Bowling Green for a tour. I called them and they said the last tour was in an hour and we made it! Fun tour, cheap, and the Corvette Museum next door was neat and that was where folks were picking up their new cars via 'factory delivery'. There was a mural about GM designer Bill Mitchell and I liked how it included that he grew up in my tiny hometown of Greenville, PA, too.

    We also played hooky once by taking off for an afternoon tour of Jack Daniel distillery. That's a great tour even if you don't drink and all the employees were very polite there.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    I gotta say, I miss red interiors in cars though. I'd probably have to go with white to get that, though...no exterior red for me.

    There's a regular that eats breakfast at the same place I do, and he owns a hideous yellow Corvette with a white removable top. I don't know the model year, not that it would make any difference.

    My 328 convertible is Sapphire black with red leather interior, and I really do like the way it looks.

    I think both black and white exterior colors sort of "sap" some of the high energy out of the red interior, creating a bit of balance and equilibrium.

    Like you, I think my days of owning red exterior cars is over, unless someone makes me a deal I simply can't refuse. Never say never...
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    That's a great tour even if you don't drink and all the employees were very polite there.

    Last I heard Lynchburg was still in a dry county so there's no free samples anyway. :D

    Should have tried for a Saturn tour back in the day.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    I like something on a Corvette that doesn't scream "Hey, look here! I'm a Corvette!!!".

    Oh come on, if there's anything designed specifically for obnoxious "look at me!" colors it's a Corvette!

    I think they should offer Garrulous Green Metallic, Obnoxious Orange Metallic, Boisterous Blue Metallic, Rambunctious Red Metallic, Vociferous Violet Metallic, Bawdy Black Metallic, and of course Wild White Pearl Metallic. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny post! :D
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Those colors are Veloster colors. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Lets add not-so-mellow yellow!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Those colors remind me of some of the old Mopar colors available years ago, like Plum Crazy....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sublime...cool names.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Hmm, perhaps Lemon Drop Metallic? :lemon: Might be a bad-luck color though, haha.

    There's just all kinds of fun that can be had with car color names. :shades:
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    According to the LA Times, GM scores a 6 out of 10!:

    link title
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited January 2013
    That gets my vote for "Worst list of 10 Worst Vehicles Ever!".

    There is no way an Edsel was any worse than anything else offered at the time, and I'm squinting hard to see those panel gaps in the Saturn Ion pic but can't quite see them. My younger B-I-L has one and they never complain about it. I do dislike the instrument cluster look.

    I'll take dent-resistant panels to micro-panel gaps anytime. I wish they were available today. And they hold up, based on the 20-plus year old vans and Camaros I see today in rusty NE OH. The same can't be said for same-age anything else.

    The Mustang II and the Cimarron, like them or not, were not bad quality cars of their era, either. If you were there then, you know that.

    Based on their criteria, I'd put the Cube, Juke, and original Element on the list.

    Over on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum, we routinely mock lists of this ilk--no one ever tries to post them as an authoritative list....only here. ;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    Over on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum, we routinely mock lists of this ilk--no one ever tries to post them as an authoritative list....only here.

    Everytime GM gets bad scores, you routinely dismiss whatever criteria it is based on.

    The fact is since C-11 rescue, GM has LOST market share. No smoke and mirrors.

    Regards,
    OW
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