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Comments
For example, the Chrysler Airflow was a loser because it didn't sell well, but it was advanced in its design and construction technique, even if there were some problems.
The Vega sold well for the first few years, but had tons of design flaws.
Just my opinion, but I like to have a handle on exactly what's being measured before getting out the measuring device.
My grandparents had a '57 Ford Fairlane 500 hardtop sedan, and one of my uncles said it was a really nice car. They traded it in '61 for a Galaxie 500 hardtop sedan, so they might not have kept it long enough for it to rear its ugly head.
I don't know if this is true, or hyperbole, but supposedly if you took a '57 Ford hardtop sedan down a bumpy road, the body would flex so much that the doors could pop open. Even if that's exaggeration, you could see all the little tricks they did for '58 to strengthen the body, like the hood scoop, and the creases in the roof.
I've heard mixed things about the Mercury. I think it was better than the Ford...at least, it was definitely heavier. But, I've heard they were also rust-prone.
As for engines, I'm not really up on my Fords from that era, but looking in the old car book, here's what I found for '58:
Ford: 292, 332, 352
Edsel: 361, 410
Mercury: 312, 383, 430
Lincoln: 430.
Not positive, but I think the 312 was a version of the Ford "Y" Block (Ford used a 312 in '57). I think the 361/383 were a design developed for Edsel/Mercury, while the 410 was a version of the Lincoln 430.
I can't remember the last time I've seen a '57 Mercury, and I don't think I've ever seen a '58 in person. I have seen, on rare occasion, a '59 and even a '60. While those cars weren't tremendous sellers, they sold more units in any of those years than Chrysler or DeSoto. So, I dunno if that's some indication that the Mercury wasn't built as well, or simply that there's more demand for old Chryslers and DeSotos?
With the cheaper cars, I see more '57-58 Plymouths at car shows than I do Fords, but that's somewhat influenced by the "Christine" effect.
But, of course, everyone knows that every single '57 Chevy ever built managed to survive! :P Just like the early Mustangs and '76 Eldorado convertibles!
I spotted this thing a few years ago, apparently unearthed after a long slumber. Has to be very rare:
Exactly. Which is why when people brag how many more jobs GM has than say, Honda or Toyota in the US -- well that's not altogether a good thing. Sort of like bragging about how many people the US Government employs...
According to the source, it's authoritatively pretty relevant:
We asked Edmunds, an auto information company that spends a lot of time driving and compiling information about cars, to put together a list of the top 10 worst vehicles ever sold in America. :shades:
Regards,
OW
http://youtu.be/DnyYHKAGmII
http://youtu.be/9rz3QO_wbno
Ford had a big Q4 as well.
Let's see how GM did...
http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/passenger-injuries-2013.html
None in the bottom 5, either.
Sixteen of the 69 top employees at General Motors, Ally Financial Inc. and American International Group Inc. received 2012 Treasury-approved pay packages worth at least $5 million or more, the report said. Ally is formerly General Motors Acceptance Corporation, Inc."
Report Faults U.S. Treasury for Excess 2012 Pay at General Motors
I'm starting to think the French general population was on to something in the way they treated Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette...
And in related news today... GM didn't have a recall.
It might be very interesting to look and see how many voluntary recalls a manufacturer has initiated, versus how many have been enforced on the same manufacturer.
Sixteen of the 69 top employees at General Motors, Ally Financial Inc. and American International Group Inc. received 2012 Treasury-approved pay packages worth at least $5 million or more, the report said. Ally is formerly General Motors Acceptance Corporation, Inc.
"In stark contrast, the 2011 median household income of U.S. taxpayers who fund these companies was approximately $50,000," the report said.
The report was published on Monday by the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program or SIGTARP.
"SIGTARP found that once again, in 2012, Treasury failed to rein in excessive pay," the report said. "SIGTARP previously warned that Treasury lacked robust criteria, policies and procedures to ensure those guidelines are met. Treasury made no meaningful reform to its processes."
What does any of that have to do with recalls?
Nothing. He needed to change the subject.
It's easy enough to change the post title when you reply to someone (and it's often helpful to do so).
Moving on.
Shall we recall some execs or at least clawback some money? But who would work there for half those wages? :shades:
When I saw that headline this morning I knew it wasn't going to be long before somebody (probably you) posted it.... :P
You know, it's not all about money. GM's board should find some up and rising smart middle managers who think out of the box (possibly not even from the auto industry) and put them in significant positions at GM. They can definitely use some younger blood with new ideas.
On another note.... RIM (telecom company) in trouble, rebrands the company... now known as Blackberry. American Airlines in Chapter 11... has just announced a major branding change with a new corporate logo and the first new livery (paint job) in over 40 years. GM, bankrupt .... no rebranding, no logo changes, no name changes. IMHO a major mistake, as we all see the same old with a bit of improvement.
A pretty lame title. Poster could have at least said something less lame, such as: "Toyota has large recall, GM did not". Or some such. Might just pass a smell test.
Use to be that hosts kept tighter rein on postings sometimes relocating misdirected posts to proper boards or just removing them. They also periodically reminded posters to stay within thread overall subject so that new visitors to Edmunds forums who expected to see something relating to the subject would find it.
I am just as guilty as others at times in going off on tangent within the message. But, intentionally starting a new post with a title having nothing to do with GM is outrageous.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130130/AUTO0104/301300365#ixzz2JTA0JPCh
"...had a report of an inoperative wiper in May 2008, but said despite more reports "there was no clear trend and the failure rate was very low." Toyota adjusted its assembly process in July 2009 and then in July 2011 switched the wiper arm nut assembly for one used with other Toyota and Lexus models — but the company didn't opt to recall the vehicles until it investigated for another 18 months."
The article also points out that toyota has led 3 out of 4 years, in recalls that is. Along with greater sales goes the problems of cars failing. It's not the perfect world anymore; everyone has failures with something going wrong.
I'm looking around to decide what car to replace and which of a large variety of replacements I could choose. Can I trust toyota and Honda to fix things that they find wrong? Or will they stall recalls to try to keep the buzz good? Or would a used model have defects that have been overlooked in the reporting and kept out of recall status just to affect the buzz?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They tried that back in the early 90's when John Smale (former head of P&G) became chairman and implemented a branding strategy that said people don't care what the cars can do - it's all about the brand. How did that work out?
On another note.... RIM (telecom company) in trouble, rebrands the company... now known as Blackberry.
That's all part of the new product launch. People love their Blackberries - they don't necessarily know that Research in Motion is the corporate name.
American Airlines in Chapter 11... has just announced a major branding change with a new corporate logo and the first new livery (paint job) in over 40 years.
Again - it's a new start for AA. But it's also an issue with the technology of their new planes. For years, AA was known for it's polished aluminum aircraft. It was distinctive and allowed for better fuel efficiency - a painted aircraft costs more to fly because of the weight of the paint. Their new planes are carbon fiber - the polished aluminum look can't be achieved. Further if they merge with US Air, they were going to have to strip all those planes. Going to a white base will save money if the merger goes through.
The "King of the Recalls" thread has been going on in here for at least a year now btw.
On the leadership note, Mulally has done a good job at Ford. Other "out of the box" managers haven't done so well (the Pepsi guy at Apple comes to mind).
And then you have the mess at HP where they would have done much better promoting from within.
Cut out the surplus overhead (which is the definition of middle management), bring in some under 40s who are looking to do more than pad retirements, and base pay on performance.
Well, you've said they're perfect, so I suspect they are your best choices. :P
That assumes that all smart young up and comers are the same. GM tried Wagoner and now the current guy; how is that working out?
I think we agree here, too much bloat. But the company sure looks old rather than young, which is a large part of their demographics problem. Gotta find a way to turn that around.
They're going to need *some* middle management. Just pick a low enough quantity and the right ones.
Believe it or not, managers are people too. There are good and bad ones, just like worker bees or cube rats.
Dog kickers and offshorers are people too.
ROFLMAO
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Is the GM management of the company top heavy with older folks compared to other major companies here in the US? Someone got statistics on that?
What they should do is put younger middle-management into positions where they are the "face" that the public sees rather than the older, wiser guys who should'a retired.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What I meant is that the public impression of GM is largely a company for the older demographic. I know that they have some new small cars that are looking good, but IMHO they missed out on a rebranding opportunity to give them a fresh start and a new impression to the public. The loyalists would buy them anyway, and a renamed/rebadged GM might have added appeal to a newer, younger set of buyers. Most 20-somethings don't want to be driving Buick or Caddy or often even Chevy. Unless they want a truck.
GM recalls 13,680 cars for possible bolt, airbag issues (Reuters)
GM just can't keep up with Toyota lately.
Congratulations to GM on doing recalls in a timely manner.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Too bad our government had to interfere with the GM bankruptcy rather than just letting it play out. Maybe what could have come out of it would be a rebadging also. Something more, "fashionable".
General Motors does sound stodgy, just like Philip Morris did. That company renamed to Altria.
The Japanese big three did things right with their luxury divisions. Not only with superior cars compared to the American brands but in clean-sheet names for these divisions. Think of the elegance of the names Lexus, Infiniti, Acura compared to, duhh, General Motors. These names - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura - exude something very fine and desirous, classy, solid and of course, elegant.
Which is why Acura, and now Cadillac, have moved away from model names in order to better promote the brand.
Too many people knew about Legend and Integra and not enough about Acura.
I know lots of folks don't like the alpha-numeric soup of model names, but if you think about it, everybody knows of the 3-series or E-class, regardless of the year. And, most folks could tell you the brand much easier when you give them the model name.
CTS? A4? Yep, we know what make those are...
Equus? What's that?
Of course, Infiniti is going to cock it all up now that every model will be rebranded as "Q"-something-or-other.
CTS makes me think of "CFS", which is how we abbreviated "Chicken-Fried Steak" on the guest check when I worked at Denny's.
A4, that's a transmission option, right? A3, A4, M4, M5, CVT? :P
Like Roseanna Roseanadanna used to say....
Never mind...
I think that image is perpetuated by some who want to talk only about an older GM in negative way and some by not having had a definite enough advertising break with the Old GM before the administration reformulated it.
I think that there is an advertising gap and a perception that the leaders of GM, when they do show up on a program or article, tend to be older than some of the other faces in the news for other companies.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's what happens when you rely more on your "heritage" and less on your product. When you base your marketing on trying to kindle fondly remembered "way back when," you get people old enough to fondly remember "way back when."
Our local paper's 'auto' section today has an article about a Honda recall of 700K units, but I don't know if that's new or from a week or two ago and just making it into the paper now.