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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    2014 CTS

    Front end is OK, if a bit busy. I see a bit of C-class in the way the grill jutts out and those lights are neat but that chrome moustache is a bit much...

    The back end is a big ol mess. Looks like something that would have come out in the 90's. Very soft, like it should be on a Deville or DTS.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    when CR's Malibu actually scored higher than other much-talked about cars here, no one--and I mean no one--said a single thing about that, until I brought it up

    You read it before I did.

    Also, you've repeated that about 12 times, but the Eco scores poorly, and the plain Malibu beat the Legacy by just 2 points, while the upscale Legacy beat the Eco by a dozen points. So the Legacys had a higher average.

    Not to mention, even if we limit the discussion to the entry models the Accord smoked them both by a wide margin.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    edited February 2013
    No question about the Accord, but you have to admit that the conversation here is stacked.

    As usual, so much relevant was just left out of the discussion here. I firmly believe that had I not mentioned it, it would have never made it here at all.

    What is your opinion that the base Malibu tested better than the base Legacy?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No comments on an important new product? Come on folks. People just argue, the product doesn't really matter at all, does it? :sick:

    The price is ambitious, but so it the equipment. Leather standard? Was that necessary? 17" rims, too? Auto only is probably OK, that's the volume sale anyway.

    I'm worried. Malibu Eco was also priced at $26k, and we all know how that turned out.

    $5k more than an Eco will limit sales to rabid diesel fans in America. All 5 of them.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    A diesel domestic car? That can't be a good thing since Korea or Japan didn't do it. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Meh, I like it. Strong family resemblance, you know right away it's a Cadillac, yet it looks fresh.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited February 2013
    I'm glad to see more diesel options but I think they are going to hit a brick wall when it comes to pricing... as well as making a case when selling against GM's own Cruze Eco model that gets the same mileage for thousands more. Nice amount of twist tho :shades:

    One other tidbit I read on the Chevy site.

    Clean diesels generate at least 90% less Nitrogen Oxide (NOx) and particulate emissions when compared to previous-generation diesels.

    It all starts with a 2.0L turbocharged clean diesel engine designed in Italy, built in Germany and installed in the Cruze at our factory in Lordstown, Ohio.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    the conversation here is stacked

    Same way in the Toyota threads. When times are bad folks like xlu were bashing away, as things got better he vanished. Textbook trolling.

    When the tsunami hit one guy said they deserved it, the posts were so tasteless the hosts had to delete them.

    Both here and there I share news links and discuss NEWS, which is what this thread should be about, not decades old stereotypes and biases.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is it a Vauxhall unit, though? I wonder if it was designed in house by a GM division overseas, or contracted out to a 3rd party.

    up's got a point, the Koreans and Japanese have yet to sort out a diesel that meets CARB emissions.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,143
    First thing I thought when I saw that rear end was 2000 DTS. Hopefully that's not the finished product, CTS needs to be edgier. At least it is bigger now, not that weird tweener size.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Man, those Honda rotors sure don't last. ;)

    I know my dad had to replace a set of rear pads on his Accord around 30k. He's at 90k now and I don't know if he's had to replace them again. He hasn't anything about it, so I'll have to ask him next time I talk to him.

    Oh, I will add to my previous post about GM that I did like many of the full size GM cars my grandpa had except for his Roadmaster (It was to soft, to slow, and I though it was ugly). They were good cars, not something I would want, but they did seem good overall for those who liked that type of car and IMO were better than what Chrysler and Ford offered at the time for the most part.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The bailout has the problem of being a divisive political move to protect unions rather than a true bailout.

    Wait, so George W. Bush bailed out GM in order to protect the unions?

    You forget there were TWO bailouts, in quick succession, by two different Presidents, from two different parties. They were protecting a lot of people that were campaign contributors and to you-know-where with the general American taxpayer.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    On the spy photos of new CTS - Agree that the back end is a mess. The current design on 2013 is clean and elegant. No need to change much of it at all.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Price seems a bit steep and I don't understand why GM isn't offering a manual trans. Maybe they don't have one that can handle the torque, but you'd think there is one laying around from for use in Europe.

    The Cruze in Europe uses a 1.7L diesel with a 6 sp manual. They do offer the 2.0 with a manual in Australia. I'm sure there is some sort of reason for North America not offering a manual. I'm guessing the 7 potential buyers are already filtering restaurant grease into their 30 year old Rabbits.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >I'm guessing the 7 potential buyers are already filtering restaurant grease into their 30 year old Rabbits.

    I have to laugh with your reasoning. There probably is a specialized group interested in diesel with manual. On the other hand, would offering a manual attract some of the potential purchasers--I suspect the VW folks would not deign to lower their image by buying a Chevrolet. But more likely as a marketing factor, what is the gas fuel mileage with a manual compared to automatic and what is the EPA problems to be overcome.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    it does nothing to show progress in the reliability and dependability department

    sandman has been driving several 20k+ mile rental Dodge vans and says they've been holding up surprisingly well:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef2c24d/29966#MSG29966

    I'd like to see a full redesign of their minivan. The refresh made it better, but ground-up it could be truly great, and Toyota has been cost cutting on the interior and Honda's just ugly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm guessing the 7 potential buyers are already filtering restaurant grease into their 30 year old Rabbits.

    I told you once, I told you a million times, don't exaggerate! ;)

    There are only 5 of them.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Throw in the Chinese flagrant disregard for the environment as well and charge for imports what they would cost if the Chinese gave any thought toward the environment.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Well, the only EPA problems that I'm SURE of would be going through the hassle of getting a manual transmission certified for the US market. I doubt the mpg difference would be significant.

    In the case of the last BMW 3-series lineup (E-9x), the 335d (diesel) was only offered as an automatic, most likely due to the low sales expectations of a manual transmission model. Lots of BMW owners/potential owners like to carp about the low availability of manual 3-series, but if they sold well, dealer lots would be full of them (which, of course, they aren't). If BMW couldn't sell many gas-powered 3 series with manuals.... Well, one gets the idea...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Wait, so George W. Bush bailed out GM in order to protect the unions?

    You forget there were TWO bailouts, in quick succession, by two different Presidents, from two different parties. They were protecting a lot of people that were campaign contributors and to you-know-where with the general American taxpayer.


    My opinion: Funny how opinions are so heavily influenced by political viewpoints, even to the point where the facts no longer matter.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If not for our military presence on the Korean peninsula, Dear Leader would've overrun the south and what was once Hyundai-Kia would be producing "Dear Leader Cars" for the Stalinist elite. Wonder if they would look like old Packards?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    tlong, your original post said only "I don't have the numbers" (implying 'right here with me'), but then go on to say "I suspect Honda/Hyundai numbers are less than Chevrolet". Not...really...so. Did you correct yourself when the numbers were posted? No, you said, "Chevy is up there in the mainstream numbers as well"...no mention that Hyundai had the identical age and Honda was only one year younger. I had to point that out to you here.

    That's why I said "I suspect". I also believe I said that I recall reading this but didn't remember from where. I do believe that I adequately qualified my statements. And you are also ignoring a bunch of other makes that ARE much younger buyers as we saw in the data. Even one year can be significant, as the numbers represent the aggregate of a large population of buyers. I was also talking about GM as a whole, and we did see that if you include Buick and Caddy the overall GM buyer age is much older than most other mainstream makes. So my overall point was accurate. We can nitpick Chevy against SOME other makes - Chevy is only a "bit" older. But as a general rule, GM *does* have quite a bit older buyers. I think we've established that, and therefore the point that this had been a ridiculous post was a bit.....inaccurate. ;)

    I agree with everybody here that the Eco Malibu debuting first was a mistake

    The entire "light hybrid" was a mistake - the Eco Malibu is just the rewarmed manifestation of that technology...
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited February 2013
    >I know that my impressions of GM were very negative well before the bailout.

    Was that because of the Nader era where GM was criticized for being one of the military industrial complex companies that were so evil during the 70s? 80? GM had a GNP 9th in the world among countries IIRC. So they were hated just for being big.

    For me, it started with my best friend's brand new '74 Vega GT which began to rust within 3 years of being new (in Southern California!). Then the engine destructed at about 70K miles.

    It continued with my SIL's Chevy Citation that was always in the shop.

    It endured through the '90's era of bland, big clone sedans of huge mediocrity.

    It was the lack of any competitive smaller premium sedans available (closest thing being the Catera, which was not very close), even though GM was the world's largest manufacturer, it couldn't even have a full line of vehicles that went into the segments that I was interested in.

    Then it was the dozen or so brands/divisions in the 00's that still didn't have a decent smaller car, yet had so many duplicative trucks, SUVs, convertible trucks, divisional trucks, blingmobiles, etc. that you could wipe the road with them.

    Overlay all of that with decades (literally) of poor reliability reports from CR and other publications. Overlay THAT with the general union atmosphere, including tons of workers doing nothing and getting paid for it. I knew that for the buyers of GM products, they were paying for a bunch of people to sit and be unproductive.

    Add on top of all of this the inane commercials that sang along telling me how if I bought a Chevrolet I was being patriotic and like hot dogs and apple pie. The stupidity of the company's marketing was SO obvious it was insulting.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    A diesel domestic car? That can't be a good thing since Korea or Japan didn't do it

    D3 diesel cars haven't exactly had a good history, or the same track record that non-domestic diesels have had. It's an understandable concern.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    The entire "light hybrid" was a mistake - the Eco Malibu is just the rewarmed manifestation of that technology...

    On that, we agree. You heard it here! ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    The Olds diesel debacle was the big one, although GM's later 4.3 diesel V6 I never heard/read anything bad about, nor all the truck diesels that have been utilized in the over-thirty-years since the Olds diesel V8 came out.

    Frankly, I hate the sound/smell of a diesel, myself.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Insight and CR-Z are failures. Look at the days' supply.

    The surprise is that GM still went that way even after seeing how the full hybrid Prius clobbered the Civic mild hybrid.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They've gotten better, and perhaps more importantly cars are better isolated.

    Some diesels are loud outside, but inside the cabins you barely hear them.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    Add on top of all of this the inane commercials that sang along telling me how if I bought a Chevrolet I was being patriotic and like hot dogs and apple pie. The stupidity of the company's marketing was SO obvious it was insulting.

    It's too bad you (probably) don't remember the decade-long "See the USA..." campaign. It was excellent. I gotta say, "Oh What a Feeling!", with people jumping in the air, never struck me as having been written by a marketing major from Mensa.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    The Olds diesel debacle was the big one, although GM's later 4.3 diesel V6 I never heard/read anything bad about

    I've never heard anything bad about it either, and to be fair, supposedly the 1980 and later 5.7 Diesel V-8's were better (or not as bad, at least?) as the 1978-79 models.

    As for trucks, I dunno...I've heard people gripe about those old 6.2's that they used to put in GM trucks in the 80's...product of Detroit Diesel, or something like that? I've also heard griping about the later 6.5 turbodiesel, and remember my uncle's bried experience with one. He bought a '94 GMC used in late 1996, with that engine, and it seemed like it was going back to the dealer every other weekend because some sensor or something-or-other would fail on it. Never any problems with the engine or transmission itself, but just all that extraneous stuff that can go bad and make it act up.

    I've even heard people gripe about the latest Duramax, which I think comes from Isuzu?

    But, I don't know how well an occasional gripe heard or read here and there translates to real-world reliability.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It's too bad you (probably) don't remember the decade-long "See the USA..." campaign. It was excellent. I gotta say, "Oh What a Feeling!", with people jumping in the air, never struck me as having been written by a marketing major from Mensa.

    I do have a vague recollection of "See the USA" and that one seems pretty good to me - better than the recent slogans.

    Yes, Toyota has had some humdingers. Remember "Get your hands on a Toyota....and You'll Never Let Go?". I'm not sure I even know what their current slogan is.

    For GM, I like "We are Professional Grade" (although I'm not sure I believe that about the product in a lot of cases). What is Caddy's slogan, or Buick's?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    I couldn't tell you what Buick's is now, but I always liked, "Wouldn't You Really Rather Have a Buick?". They also used to use "When Better Cars are Built, Buick Will Build Them". I like the first one better.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    Yes, Toyota has had some humdingers. Remember "Get your hands on a Toyota....and You'll Never Let Go?". I'm not sure I even know what their current slogan is.

    I remember awhile back, they used that song "Everyday People" by Sly and the Family Stone. Some people in one of my Mopar clubs picked up on it and started putting in their sig line "The last thing I want is a car for everyday people". And one used to put "I'd rather have a Real 'Ota than one of them toy ones."

    For some reason the one that sticks in my mind, but might have been local, was a jingle from the 80's that asked the question "What Will You Do with all the Money You Save?" And, in the summer they'd turn it into "Would You Believe It's Christmas I-in Jooo-ly?" to advertise their summer deals.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    edited February 2013
    When the tsunami hit one guy said they deserved it, the posts were so tasteless the hosts had to delete them.

    Yeah, there's no reason for saying something like that. But...I have seen a thing or two not a whole lot better than that, right here from one particular poster and even a descriptive word written by him that I haven't seen in print or heard in thirty years (not the one you're thinking of, though).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    It's too bad you (probably) don't remember the decade-long "See the USA..." campaign.

    Dinah Shore, belting out that tune....

    Man, I feel old...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "A diesel domestic car? That can't be a good thing since Korea or Japan didn't do it "


    D3 diesel cars haven't exactly had a good history, or the same track record that non-domestic diesels have had. It's an understandable concern.

    Once again, showing my age, but anyone that lived through the OPEC oil embargo period and saw what Detroit did in its attempt to create suitable Diesel engines would think twice before buying a domestic-made diesel automobile equipped with a home-grown Diesel engine.

    I might still buy one, but I wouldn't want to be leading the pack...

    I'm sure that Uplanderguy would agree with that statement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder who developed that diesel engine, though, since it's basically from Europe.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    edited February 2013
    I'm sure that Uplanderguy would agree with that statement.

    That engine was introduced 35 years ago this year, busiris.

    I've used this analogy before, but that'd be like not buying a new '65 Mustang because you had a bad new Model A, or not buying a new Accord because your '78 CVCC had big engine troubles and the tops of the front fenders rusted out a la Vegas. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited February 2013
    Well, what I said was that I'd think twice before buying one, and I wouldn't want to be one of the first to buy one....Not that I would refuse to buy one.


    Big difference!

    To think that anyone would simply ignore a previous bad (and expensive) experience seems a bit irrational to me.

    Just like if I have a bad experience in a restaurant, I might go back sometime later, but I'm going to give it much more thought than dining at a restaurant where I've never had anything but a superior experience.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    100k warranty. More details:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/07/2014-chevrolet-cruze-td-diesel-chicago-2013/

    The price doesn't even include freight, ouch.

    Cruze TD will be the name.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    I'd hope you'd go back to the restaurant 35 years later. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,094
    100K is GM's powertrain warranty on everything they build BTW.

    I got a GM Card flyer today...reminding me that they 'topped off' my current savings to $2K from whatever it was, last month or so. The only two vehicles I can't use that money on? Spark and Camaro ZL-1.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    edited February 2013
    >Man, I feel old...

    I still feel great when I hear Dinah sing that song... Guess I'm there with you on the age?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkzGqzRLq4g

    Less emphatic singing but great giant picture of a '53 as she walks to the performance screen... Full length version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WK9tfnXMiw

    1961 but no "See the USA". It's a tour of Cobo in Detroit of several 61 Chevies as she sings her way through a theme song of "Chevy is going your way."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More details:

    http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/64-eco-d-cruze-diesel/11380-cruze-diesel-link-che- vrolets-media-site-engine-details.html

    Bad: timing belt (really?)

    Good: runs on B20 biodiesel (VW only runs on B5)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ditto. Worked though, I hit all the 49 "continental" states by my 20s.

    Some states got ticked off my bucket list in a 60s Cutlass Supreme, the old '53 Buick, probably my mom's 60s Buick wagons and maybe even in her 60s GMC pickup.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    58... 59 in October...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/05/cadillac-rushing-update-for-laggy-cue-infotai- nment-system/
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I would say that timing belts have come a long way over the years and are definitely more reliable than they once were, but I am curious what the manufacturer recommended inspection/replacement period/mileage is, regardless what length of time/miles the warranty coverage happens to be...

    Seems a stretch to expect a timing belt to go 100K, at least in my experience.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    This really shouldn't be any surprise. CUE hasn't been garnering "best" ratings in the reviews I've seen, and its relatively early in its lifetime.

    I would be more surprised if GM said it was perfect and no tuning was required. It took BMW quite a while for iDrive to get where it is now....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh yeah, definitely a good thing.

    GM, nimble? Who'd a thunk it?
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