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Comments
Lexus really improved this year. I would say they got worried because they tied with Buick last year, but of course this is on vehicles built 3 years ago.
Overall pretty much everyone stayed in the same place.
Interesting how VW and Saab have the same numbers.
Top 5 issues:
Excessive wind noise
Noisy brakes
Vehicle pulling to the left or right
Issues with the instrument panel/dashboard
Excessive window fogging
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/midsize-c- - - ar
A little more digging and I found the 2008 Malibu was #1 for initial quality (midsize). This bodes well for its long term dependibility. What is real interesting is that the Camry and Accord are not in top 3.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063
Mercedes-Benz U.S. International Inc. has sued Cobasys LLC and its parent companies, claiming the battery maker isn't delivering the battery packs it agreed to build for Mercedes' ML450 Hybrid (right) and as a result the German automaker might have to delay the launch of its planned hybrid SUV.
In a lawsuit filed last week in a U.S. District Court, Mercedes-Benz said it had scheduled the production launch of its new hybrid vehicle for June 2009, and that it had a contract with Cobasys in which that company agreed to supply 100 percent of the batteries for the ML450 and would do so "in due time."
As a result, Cobasys said it would not sign a purchase order Mercedes-Benz had presented for the battery packs months after Cobasys representatives signed the initial contract with the automaker.
Cobasys builds batteries for General Motors' mild hybrid sedans and, in June, GM officials said the American automaker was nearing a deal to buy Cobasys.
In a letter attached to the suit, Mercedes-Benz Secretary W. Lee Thurston said "there is no viable or commercially reasonable alternative source for supply which will allow MBUSI [Mercedes-Benz U.S. International Inc.] to meet its launch dates."
In a reply dated July 9 to Thurston's letter, Cobasys CEO Thomas Neslage wrote that Cobasys had stopped working because Mercedes-Benz had not paid invoices. Cobasys also denies that it agreed to produce the batteries for Mercedes, a unit of Daimler AG.
The Environmental Protection Agency rejected on Thursday a request to cut the quota for the use of ethanol in cars, concluding, for the time being, that the goal of reducing the nation’s reliance on oil trumps any effect on food prices from making fuel from corn.
The E.P.A. administrator, Stephen L. Johnson, said that the mandate was “strengthening our nation’s energy security and supporting American farming communities,” and that it was not causing “severe harm to the economy or the environment.”
The effect of the decision on fuel and food markets is hard to determine. Recently, high energy prices have led to even more ethanol production than the quota required. On the other hand, rising corn prices made some ethanol operations unprofitable, especially as oil prices started to fall.
Companies that use corn to fatten livestock and poultry, along with others in the food business, had called for lifting the requirements, saying that their costs were rising as millions of pounds of corn were diverted from feeding livestock to fueling cars. Farmers argued that the jump in corn prices was driven not so much by the demand for ethanol as by growing demand for grain-fed meat around the world, and their own higher costs for diesel fuel.
I think in larger metro areas where emissions are a concern ethanol has been added to most of the fuel to reduce emissions. This should reduce the amount of petroleum used by 5 to 10%.
Close. The base Malibu, with the 4-speed automatic, gets 22/30. With the 4-cyl/6-speed automatic, it's 22/32. The Malibu/Aura hybrid looked more impressive using the older rating system, which put a 2007 Aura (Malibu hybrid wasn't out yet) at 28/35. Still, even then there wasn't a huge difference. The 4-cyl/4-speed auto 2007 Malibu was rated 24/34. In the G6 it was a bit less, 23/33. And the Aura's smallest engine that year was a 3.5 V-6 rated at 20/30.
Yea, I think I know but my premise still is there that perhaps we can make the ethanol penetration higher and not change the distribution infrastructure. Easy enought to require all new vehicles to be able to take E30. Most have it now and jsut need to put it on all models. Perhaps the mid range on the pumps becomes E30?
Issue with E85 is that the ethanol takes on water while in the distribution infrastructure. Not sure if E30 would have that same issue.
The luxury full size two-mode SUV carries an MSRP of $71,685—a $3,600
premium over a comparably-equipped conventional Escalade.
Escalade Hybrid features GM’s Two-Mode Hybrid technology, enabling EPA
fuel economy ratings of 20/21/20 miles per gallon US
(city/highway/combined). The conventional 2WD Escalade carries an EPA
city fuel economy rating of 12 mpg US, and a combined city/highway
rating of 15 mpg US.
The hybrid system can operate the vehicle entirely on battery-electric
power during idling or low-speed driving situations.
I would think that a 6 mpg jump would be worth $3600 investment?
At 15,000 miles /year and $4 gas that would be a savings of $1000/year.
As I've said, CTS needs to compete against some really tough competitors. I payed for all the US loyalty I am ever going to pay, all in the past. My next vehicle will be an import after my 330xi lease expires in December.
Regards,
OW
E85 could be great if the government would (1) incentivize construction of the massive infrastructure construction that is needed to deliver it nationwide, and (2) would also pay for the rapid development of cellulosic E85 production so that world food prices aren't so heavily impacted (and so we have the ability to produce far more).
Until we get (1) and (2) delivered, E85 is just a nice idea to bump the domestics' CAFE averages for a few more years. I figure a realistic timeline for (1) and (2) to be completed is 20 years, which puts it in a head to head race with the development of hydrogen-fueled cars. E85 is cheaper of course, and the future of hydrogen fueling is less certain.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I really think GM should focus on putting their vaunted two mode into the Cavalier and Malibu so that they have some high-mileage smaller CARS. Then we can see if the two mode is really comparable/better than the Toyota or Honda systems.
With all the hoopla here a year ago about how great the two mode was, I don't see it setting the world on fire. People are looking for CARS, why hasn't GM done this yet? Even Ford has the hybrid Escape (I know, technology licensed from Toyo), which is at least a small SUV.
Hydrogen is an energy CARRIER which does not occur in nature in fuel form, it must be made using other energy sources. With what energy are you going to make the hydrogen? I don't see it - expensive, explosive, low energy density, requires other energy to make it (with all the conversion losses and infrastructure that requires).
Not on this planet, at least. We'll have to mine Jupiter for it, though that's a ways off.
Toyota annouced that the face-lifted 2009 RAV4 will have a new 2.5L 4-cyl to replace the current 2.4L. Power is up from 164hp to 179hp. But what is more important is that 2009 EPA mpg is 22/28 for FWD and 21/27 for AWD. This compares to 21/27 for FWD and 20/25 for AWD for 2008. The 2.5L is hooked to 4-speed auto.
Imagine this engine in the 2010 Camry coming next Spring, and how much gain it can get from the current 21/31 estimation, especially when hooked to 5- or 6-speed.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Could you check your numbers please?
I think The Enclave gets 17/24 for FWD and 16/23 for AWD.
The class leading would be the Highlander, which gets 18/24 FWD and 17/23 AWD. But to be fair, the Enclave is much larger and heavier
BTW, OW, Buick won't be axed, considering how well it does in China. One could make the argument that the Chinese may think that if Buick isn't good enough for the Americans, it's not good enough for us, or that the could axe Buick there. I can't see GM doing anything to jepordize Chinese sales.
Even if they did, the Traverse gets the same engine, and is the same size. Therefore, the lambda CUV's are still class leading.
I don't think so. We're empty nesters and the Camry is plenty big enough for our needs. Plus we can carry 3 normal-size people in the back without problems. I agree that the Camry is "little' compared to an Enclave or a '71 Impala.
As for gas mileage, our 2005 routinely gets 32 mpg on the highway, with a believable 35 mpg as tops. Our 2004 does about 3 mpg better in the same driving conditions: 35-38 mpg.
Regards,
OW
In two short years Toyota has gone from the top to the bottom of the pack in terms of its automatics. WAY too many 4-speeds left in its lineup when GM and Ford are leading the way by putting their new 6-speed in just about everything. Even Honda has gone to 5-speeds in all its models, even the $15K Fit.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was wondering that, too. Is it possible that maybe they just don't have the production capacity to build all the 5-speeds they need to? Or is there something about the 4-speed, like better durability perhaps, that makes it better suited to use in the RAV-4 than in the Camry.
I also remember one Town Hall member (maybe it was 210Delray?) who had a 4-speed Camry and a 5-speed, and saying that the 4-speed actually performed better AND got better economy?
FWIW, the only 5-speed automatic I've ever spent any appreciable amount of time in is a 2006 Xterra. I'm not that impressed with it. It seems like it's geared in such a way that it's revving so low that it's close to stalling out. When you stomp on it to downshift, it sort of just does nothing for an instant. It revs up in that gear, but really doesn't go any faster. Then when it gets to the right rpm it'll downshift and then take off, extra fast, as if to make up for lost time. It's plenty fast enough, but that lag time before shifting just seems like it could be dangerous.
Instead of being "just right", it seems like it's either too slow or too fast...if that makes sense.
Maybe this is just one case where the 5-speed automatic is just overkill with an engine that powerful? It might make more sense with a weaker engine. Or if my buddy stressed this Xterra out, such as using it for towing or heavy hauling.
Keep cracking me up. Yes SUV sales and lux vehicles sales are down but so is the whole market. Escalade is down 30%. Does anyone really think that is a HUGE drop? Overall vehicle market is down the lowest in a long time. Gas was on it's way to $5, yet 71% still are buying the +$65k Escalades.
U.S. sales of the non-hybrid Escalade have fallen 29 percent so far this year as consumers spooked by high gas prices and the shaky economy abandon larger vehicles.
As I said, FAMILIES, and I guess I should have stipulated families with kids, are buying the Lamdas. Yes for a couple they are a bit large, unless of course, they are hauling large trailers or loading up the rear with antiques or something.
Where it started is that the Enclave for 2009 will get 25 highway and the Camry gets 31. Not a lot of difference to someone who needs the capability of a large CUV. Sure, if you do not need the space buy a Mini that get 34 mpg. Just forget the groceries if you have 2 kids.
August11
General Motors gave Good Morning America a sneak peek at the production Volt plug-in hybrid, which was previewed earlier this year with a single sketch.
The General hopes to have the Volt on sale in late 2010 as a 2011MY model.
Price wise, GM was hoping for an MSRP of around $30,000. It now seems that number may be closer to $35,000.
The Volt project is an ambitious one. The aim is to create a vehicle that can deliver the equivalent of over 100 miles per gallon, while offering a top speed of 120 mph, and a zero to sixty time of 8.5 seconds.
The so-called plug-in hybrid aims to have a charge time of 6.5 hours, and a range of 45 miles on batteries alone. For many customers, this could mean the daily commute would require no gasoline.
As with any hybrid, an onboard generator recharges the batteries when the gasoline motor is running. What makes the Volt unique is that’s the only thing the gas motor does — in other words, it never drives the wheels directly. Maximum range — with a full tank of gas and charged batteries — is an impressive 640 miles.
Volt director Tony Posawatz indicated that several variations of the Volt could be in store for the future. Interchangeable bodies remain a real possibility. Possible for GM to design different body styles — such as a sedan or van — that can be placed on the platform. This versatility means your Volt could be an SUV one day and a two-door coupe the next.
Oh no, it's simply because they are cheaping out. That is what I would have accused GM of doing back in the day, and that is what Toyota is doing now. Just plain cheaping out. A hybrid version of the RAV4 is also overdue, considering the Camry with which it shares its powertrains has had a hybrid version for two years.
And it would seem that a hybrid Equinox is overdue too. Is it true that Aura and Malibu will offer the new two-mode hybrid powertrain for the '09 model year, or will this still be the not-really-worth-it "mild" hybrid from the current Malibu? I read a report on, was it the '09 Vue? With the two-mode hybrid that thing should get really good gas mileage, enough to take on the hybrid Escape head to head. Honda and Toyota will be left in the dust....
If it's true about the '09 Vue (if I remembered it correctly, in other words), they should plunk the same thing in the Equinox, their volume seller.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Here is the reality...I couldn't have said it better myself!
Makes sense to someone... somewhere... somehow...
GM Car Czar Bob Lutz' infamous pre-Katrina remark, "Rich people don't care about gas," has once again come back to haunt him. This time it arrives in the form of a $71,685 two-mode hybrid; a rebadged Chevy Suburban SUV called the Cadillac Escalade Hybrid. Here's the problem: Bob's remark implied that rich people are environmentally unconscious (and, by extension GM). If that's true– and I'm not saying it isn't– why would anyone pay an extra $14,795 over the base 'Slade) or $3600 (for the two-mode system) to buy a gas - electric version of the Escalade? Is it because they care about looking like they care about the price of gas? And if that's right– and I'm not saying it is– wasn't Maximum Bob wrong in the first place? And if these rich people really cared about looking like they cared about the price of gas, why would they buy a hybrid SUV (20 mpg city) instead of something more fuel efficient (if a lot less big and infinitely less bling)? How many rich, luxury-loving, boat-towing, gas price or carbon-footprint-aware SUV drivers are there, anyway? Last question (I swear): how much did this doomed PR-mobile cost GM anyway? OK, two more. How stupid/eco-pretentious do you have to be to pay a $14,795 hybrid premium? And how long before those hybrid stickers and badges show up on eBay? [First photo of one of these in the wild-- customer owned-- gets an honorable mention.]
Makes sense to you, 62vetteefp, now doesn't it? :shades:
Regards,
OW
But I know for some reason, today's families seem to carry a lot more than we did, even if they have no more than 2 kids.
Yes and each kid has to have a room to themselves plus a big family room, a wide screen TV, etc. A Camry has plenty of room for a small family.
In looking at the data GM light duty truck sales are down 25% for Jan-July. Though I could not get a good list it looks like there are about 11 plants in N.A. that make trucks. They are shutting 4 down. That leaves 7 to make that 75% .
At the sales rate over the first 7 months this year that would be about 1.75 million truck units. One plant at two shifts can build about 240,000 units/year.
7 x 240k = 1,680,000 units
What the data shows is that GM had too much capacity last year for trucks. It was not until the new UAW agreement that GM could right size their capacity.
July’s annualised rate for U.S. car sales of 12.7m units, “
So at standard time GM is capacitized for 29% but once sales get back up to 16 m units more like 23% with probably another couple percent with OT.
I would say this is a marketing technique, to leave room for improvment for the next generation RAV4. And why not? This 2.5L/4-speed combo gets best-in-class power and fuel economy as it is right now.
I even have a feeling that Toyota will not put a 6-speed in the 4-cyl Camry, and they will still improve the fuel consumption.
Remember guys it's all about fuel economy.
Look at this figure:
Toyota RAV4 V6 AWD, 5-speed: 19/26 mpg.
Saturn Vue V6 AWD. 6-speed: 16/22 mpg.
Obviously, the 6-speed auto did not help GM's thirsty 3.6L.
And then there will be a proper two-mode Vue hybrid in a few months, which I am sure will totally beat up RAV and CRV on the fuel economy front. Going head to head with Escape hybrid, as I said before. CRV may have a diesel late next year....where is Toyota's response for the RAV4?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But the Vue also has more power than the V-6 RAV and may be faster to 60, so you ARE getting something for your gas dollars there.
Actually the RAV4 has 269hp, compared to 252hp for the Saturn Vue, and the RAV4 is way faster.
And while there is no hybrid RAV4, there is a hybrid Highlander.
The Saturn: http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=120836/pageNumber=3
The Toyota: http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=108153/pageNumber=1?s- ynpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/new/2008/toyota/rav4/100920113/roadtes- tarticle.html&articleId=108153
The RAV runs 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, the Vue does it in 7.3. The RAV runs the quarter in 15.2 seconds, the Vue in 15.7.
But, point taken. RAV V-6 does that while having slightly better fuel economy. That's good. I'm still looking for the 4-cylinder to have better FE, and I am eagerly awaiting FE ratings for the two-mode Vue hybrid.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Funny how the same thing was said of GM a year or two ago, with the only difference being people were defending GM's use of the 4-speed autos.
Well, I can see some advantages to it. For instance, the 4-speed auto is most likely cheaper to build, which might help keep the cost of the car down. It's also probably going to be a lot cheaper to re-build, something to consider on the used car market.
A lot of GM's bigger cars, like the Impala, LeSabre, etc, that were using 3.4's, 3.5's, and 3.8's, etc, seemed to get along fairly well with that transmission. I guess it could be possible that those engines really wouldn't benefit from a 5- or 6-speed.
I remember the 2004-2007 Malibu, especially, seemed to do really well with the 3.5 V-6/4-speed auto.
Also, to be fair, GM was taking A LOT of ragging a couple years back, for being behind the curve with using 4-speeds when everyone else was going to 5-speeds. It's just that a lot of GM defenders jumped in and, well, defended them!
I wonder if these same debates went on back in the old days, over 3-speed versus 4-speed transmissions. Or if people were getting on the internet back in the 50's and debating over 2 versus 3 speeds, or torque converters versus fluid couplings? :shades:
GM has lots of 6 speeds coming out because they have been/are finally increasing capacity. Tranny manufactuing modules are very expensive. I would assume Toyota is having an issue because as their world wide sales go up they need more trannys and have not spent the money to tool up enough 5 or 6 speeds. Besides the real public does not really know what a 4 5 or 6 speed is all about. Hey, I could probably convince most folks that since Toyota uses 4 speeds and GM has 6 speeds that 4 speeds are obviously better. :P
Maybe not, but I'd think overall performance would be better. Now that I've had my Expedition with a 6 speed for a while now, no way would I go back to a 4 speed in a truck/SUV. Huge difference in overall performance compared to my 5.3/4speed Suburban. Sure, foot to the floor acceleration (non towing) is probably pretty close overall, but in routine driving, the 6 speed provides effortless acceleration in almost any situation.
Towing is where I really notice the performance improvement. It's nice not to have to rev the engine to 4k rpm to maintain enough torque to accelerate in the next gear. With the 6speed, I rarely need to go over 3k rpm to accelerate with the boat on back. The extra ratios means the engine doesn't have to work as hard to do the same amount of work and it makes for a more refined powertrain. At least when comparing the Expe to a Suburban. The Expe never feels like it's working hard, where my Suburban often felt very strained with more engine vibration and noise.
I'm sure my wife's 3.8 powered grand prix would benefit from a 6 speed. Even though it has plenty of torque, it runs out of steam above 4k rpm and while it's really peppy around town it isn't nearly so at highway speeds. The extra ratios would certainly help utilize the engines powerband.
There is a reason why semi's have 13+ gears.
Now is it worth more money to go to a 6 speed vs. a 4speed in an in expensive carr? We can debate that all day. Certainly, I'd rather have a well behaving 4 speed over a manic 6speed that never can figure out which gear to use.