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Honda Accord VCM

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Comments

  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Sorry golfrski, but repeated posts on this forum will not solve your problem. You need to talk to your dealer service manager, and American Honda, if necessary, to solve this issue. We cannot fix this, as much as we would like to. :( Good luck to you on getting this issue taken care of. :D
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You are right we cannot fix it, but we can certainly provide a forum for discussion and that's what we've got here. Let's let golfrski and anyone else have his or her say about it, 'kay? :)
  • ezshift5ezshift5 West coastPosts: 855
    ....De Nada. In keeping with the concept of 'virtue is its' own reward' - - - it is indeed pleasant to recognize positive post content.........

    ....I wuz tempted to do the same thing for another poster - - - - then a sparkling post concluded with a preposition (so my praise remained undelivered and elroy got zinged by the mod for a non-grammatical effort)....

    ...actually, this board is fun and has a lot of positive attributes....

    best, ez...
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Very sorry to hear this. I know it's a hassle, but I would go back to the dealer and insist on driving several EX V6 demos to see if what you feel is "consensus" or a rare "fluke."

    Since all professional reviewers of the EX V6 have mostly praised the car with no hint of hesitation or surge that you describe, this leads me to believe you bought one with a rare but annoyingly real "bug" in the VCM mechanism.

    CR in their preliminary report on the EX V6 which was recently released on their website, has only good things to say about it.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Honda is very good at standing behind their products. So if something is really wrong with the VCM, I would be hopeful they would fix it for free even outside the warranty period.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I thought my post might be taken the wrong way. Oh well. :sick:
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    That said, I'm sure it can be felt a bit (like transmission shift can be, especially with colder weather).

    It can be felt ALOT. its ridiculous and my prediction is MANY more unsatisfied V6 owners will come forward. The vibration is very noticable and the surging is uncomfortable. Having a "clue" comes from experienceing the issue that others and myself are feeling. Your lucky that you have not had this issue,thats great. but the new engine has issues,, plain and simple and people need to be aware before they buy.
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    agree... just looking for rmore feedback/user experiences from different forum users. Honda is looking at it today. I will keep everyone posted.
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Thanks Pat. :-( yes indeed I am distressed as would anyone spending such a great deal of money. and I appreciate this forum to discuss the issue and continue the dialog. I am let-down. Honda should have done more testing and homework here on this new config. It is becoming painfully obvious that I am not alone and as the cars begin to hit the streets in greater numbers, the issues, posts and concerns are mounting.. I am hopful Honda reads these as well. I will ceratinly point them to this and all the other forums for customer data. As the service manager at my dealer said, "the car is so new that they havent seen many reports yet".." "they expect this to become a more widespread concern", and that was a comment from a Honda Service Manager!
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    I agree Hpowders that is what is so puzzling to me. Surely all the prof reviews would have made comment. Although as I said I am starting to see other posters that are seeing the same thing.. maybe its point of origin or something related to that... well we'll see and I will let you know. I am test driving some others today.

    Thanks for the kind words.....
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    From Honda's Accord information:

    The Accord Sedan’s V-6 features the latest generation of Variable Cylinder Management™ (VCM®) technology. This system can activate and deactivate the engine’s cylinders as needed to meet the demands of both acceleration and fuel savings. When maximum torque is required, all six cylinders are firing. During steady cruising speeds , VCM shuts down one bank of cylinders. In this mode, the audio system’s Active Noise Cancellation™ (ANC) function generates out-of-phase sound waves to cancel out any undesirable noise that may be due to the harmonics of 3-cylinder operation. As cruising speed increases the engine moves to a 4-cylinder mode for extra cruising power. To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, active engine mounts automatically adjust their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers.

    This is misleading...
  • stevecarstevecar Posts: 148
    I've been driving honda and Acuras since 1981. Currently have 07 CRV and 05 TL.
    Was going to look at new accord V-6 as replacement next year when TL lease is up.
    This really sounds like a problem. For time being this sounds like the emperer's new clothes. This hasn't been made public yet. If this gets out, it could be similar or worse than the auto transmissions on the V6 Camry.
    Remains to be seen. If I were buying now, I would opt for the tried and tru 4 cylinder
  • ezshift5ezshift5 West coastPosts: 855
    ..interesting. I have been big time impressed with Honda engineering as reflected within my GenVII 6M coupe.

    Golf, pls keep us in the loop!

    best, ez....
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    It is strange. Not one complaint about surge/hesitation with the VCM from any professional reviewer. Logic tells me this means most of the EX V6 sedans run okay.
    Several of these guys make a point of knowing its working only when they see the dashboard light. At least I know where they got the word "seamless" from: right out of Honda!

    I re-read the Edmunds full test of the EX V6 sedan and it mentions that nobody in the cabin could detect the VCM operation.

    I am glad that Honda will be involved. It looks like only some of the vehicles have this problem. Seems like a "bug" that Honda has a responsibility to fix.

    Let us know what Honda says. Good luck!
  • With all due respect, why would you really expect a professional reviewer to mention any perceivable glitch with VCM? Advertising, advertising, advertising (revenue, that is) . . . just as important as location, location, location in real estate.

    The early adopter, first year buyers are the one's I will really listen to on this, not the professional reviewers. This is exactly why I refuse to buy a first year model of anything - cars, or anything else. (NOTE: However, my wife did! A 2007 Camry, and we are paying the price on that miscue).

    If there is a problem, Honda will jump on it quickly.
  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    If you read most of the "professional" reviews of a brand new car, I've noticed that they will always tell you what is good, but seem very reluctant to say what is bad. Look at the review of the newly-redesigned Malibu. They tried as hard as they could to be positive - and apparently the car has some positive aspects. But, reading the article, it frankly made me glad I bought an Accord. Also, many of the first test drives do not necessarily include long-distance cruising. If you have the new Accord v6 on a track, or if the test drive didn't include an extended period of time on an open road, I doubt the VCM issues discussed in this thread would be noticeable. Of course, this doesn't discount all the professional reviewers who have noted that the VCM is "seamless." But, it may be a reason to give at least equal footing to those who have actually started giving these cars considerable windshield time :)
  • stevecarstevecar Posts: 148
    Good points about advertising and early adopters.
    unless you follow one of the internet boards, it's impossible to know about first year problems unless the cars are breaking down on the side of the road. As good as some of these cars are, I guess it's still a good idea to shy away from the first year until some kind of pettern shows.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Call me old-fashioned, but when I read an in depth professional review of a vehicle, I expect it to be delivered with integrity. When a majority of reviewers say the VCM is imperceptible, I believe most Accord EX V6 sedans fall into that category.

    Obviously, some people have problems with the VCM system. Hopefully, Honda will not just listen, but will do something.

    I agree that it is not a good idea to purchase one of the first batch of vehicles of a new design.

    I can wait. My current lease ends July 31st and my next vehicle will most likely be the EX-L V6 Accord sedan or an MDX base. I don't know if I want to live with 17 mpg, though! :(
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    So I met with the Honda folks again . and the story is this,,,,, "the car is operating normally " "The surging is normal in the V6 and absolutely will be noticed by the passengers/driver".I sort of expected this. This is in direct conflict with ALL advertising and marketing of this vehicle's VCM engine.

    "To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, active engine mounts automatically adjust their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers"

    There are a few things they are going to do as a first step and then see if that alleviates the issue for me personally such as alignment, balancing of tires run addl diagnostics on the fuel injection,, the works.

    The net/net update is that what most V6 drivers are feeling is a collateral issue that drivers are, or will be faced with on the 08 V6 VCM engine. The Ody 6-3 was less noticeable due to the 6-3 mode approach. The extra 4 mode is what may be causing the added layer of noticability. Again, I do not see this as prevalent in "cruise control" so there must be a correlation between how the car drives and manages itself, as opposed to manually. I know duh right? but seriously even with a steady foot on the accelerator and feathering oh so slightly the car is in constant "roaming mode" at certain speeds and Honda itself agrees. In there I feel lies the rub... if they can figure out how to get the car to run optimally without CC on, then I think the fix will surface. Clearly the car can make a decision on cylinder activation mode while in CC yet not when off.

    I still predict more and more complaints to rise. I also predict the eco light will be removed in the future in the hopes that its indication of changes to the driver "may" reduce or remove the placebo effect. It is this effect some may be having when it illuminates like a dummy light that something is going on thus adding a greater sensitivity to change. Don't be surprised if the advertising or documentation is updated from "unnoticeable and seamless" to slight and minimal.

    Bottom line is we don't need to know what mode is on or off anyway do we? really? As I have stated since the beginning. drive the car yourself and be the judge. If it doesn't bother you and you can live with it , then that's great. I will hope the diagnostics and addl tuning will resolve my issue. and keep you all posted as we move along down the road....
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    So Honda lied about the initial description of the VCM. From seamless to noticeable.
    Highly disappointing.

    Maybe I have been expecting too much from the reviewers. Sounds like they just copied "seamless" directly from Honda's description.

    That surging/hesitating would sure bother me. No doubt about it. It would drive me nuts.

    I still plan to drive one early next year, but I am definitely not as enthusiastic as I once was.

    And yet we have this, hot off the press, from CR's testing of the 2008 EX V6 Accord sedan on their website (appearing in their February, 2008 issue as part of a family sedan comparo) : "If it weren't for the little green "eco" light in the instrument panel, this system would be completely imperceptible."
    They are "impressed" with the car.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    There are just a few who are apparently noticing it. Then there are other folks who aren't. I'm willing to bet, a lot of it has to do with perception and expectations.
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Time will tell.

    I think if Honda stated its noticable (which contradicts their marketing), then thats enough to make me feel as if I do not have OCD w/ VCM.

    You'll see more people coming forward, no doubt in my mind......
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    If there is a problem, Honda will jump on it quickly.

    I tend to agree, but lets hope so ,
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Neighbor up the street bought a 08 V6 yesterday........he is complaining about the surging issue already on the highway. We are going to monitor his as well and update the forum.
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    Dan Jedlicka (MSN toughest auto critics) has assessed "the '08 Accord, especially the V6, is one of the best sedan automobiles in the world..." I am going to buy one w/ Navi.

    As an extra feedback on the Accord. My '05 Accord hybrid does generate "little humming noise" sometimes when engine switches from gas to electric or vice versa when I slow down my hybrid on highway exit ramps, etc. I brought it to the dealers a couple of times and they could not fix it. Otherwise, it runs like dream, "glues down" to winding roads and speeds up like a strongest greyhound ar 255HP. My hybrid is 3-6 VCM. No notice when it switches back & forth between 3 and 6 or vice versa.

    I still consider Accord V6 is one of the best sedans. I am currently owning a fleet of 3 Accord V6 and 1 I4 at home (excluding other retired Honda vehicles in the past). And NO REGRET. Will buy a brand-new Accord '08 EX-L PZEP w/ navi soon. It's hard to resist all "goodies stuff" such as 268 HP, good MPG, VCM, VSC, ACE, more air bags, Blue tooth, enhanced Navi, stereo...and best of all is Honda' smartest leading engineers/ management. One cannot get all these "fancy stuff" in one packet compared to same class vehicles such as Infiniti G35, Avalon XLS, Camry SE, Altima, BMW '3 series, Audi, Volvo..

    One said: "When Acura is installed with some propellers, Accord will be granted all those nice (Acura) stuff. I am going to buy a' 08 Accord V6 EX-L PZEP w/ navi soon. Life sometimes is so short to miss those good opportunities.
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    Thanks a lot Honda/ Acura King Robertsmx for your super clear explanation of the VCM.
  • I had a friend drive my new Accord this weekend to see what he thought about the car as a whole and to pay particular attention to the VCM activity. He read some of the posts here at my urging, so he was aware of what others perceive as a problem. He's owned Accords and Preludes and is very mechanically inclined and a very spirited and opininated driver. He wouldn't sugar coat his impression. We did about 25 miles of mixed interstate and twisty back roads. He could feel the VCM doing its thing but never found it objectionable. He's driven his boss's BMW (can't remember if it was a 5 or a 7 series) on several occasions and felt the Accord came close to matching the Bimmer's handling characteristics, at least as close as you can get by a car that's pulling itself, not pushing. We did everything from relaxed highway cruising to 0-60 runs and assertive stopping and overall the car was up to anything he threw at it. His final verdict on the VCM as implemented in my car was that it was less noticeable then anything the transmission was doing and at times not noticeable at all. Now that I have the keys back in my possession it will be some time before I let him drive my car again as what he calls every day driving, I call beating on a car. He assures me that being a Honda, it was meant to be driven aggressively, and he has proven that with over 200,000 miles on his 1990 Prelude with countless trips the redline, so I guess he would know.
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Well this is certainly encouraging. However is still not in-line with how the car is being marketed or presented. I have the dealer checking the active motor mounts to ensure they are a-ok. Once a potential issue there is ruled out then we will decide next steps. I drove about 4 hours yesterday all interstate and still noticed in CC the engine operates pretty normal. The only notoicable adjustment felt seem to be transmission changes. So again, the car can optimize on its own but is hyper-sensitive when manfully driven via the accelerator. I am starting to think its the "drive-by-wire" config and lack of mechanically linkage to the throttle perhaps...... we'll see.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I am starting to think its the "drive-by-wire" config and lack of mechanically linkage to the throttle perhaps...... we'll see.

    I doubt its the DBW. I have DBW in my previous gen Accord and love its smoothness and crisp throttle response. Never had one complaint about it. In fact, I've not seen one complaint about DBW from Honda (Toyota is a different story) and it has been equipped on Honda vehicles for years now.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    it has been equipped on Honda vehicles for years now

    Yep. And I believe since 1995, at the time in a car called NSX.
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