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Honda Accord VCM

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  • sbowden99sbowden99 Member Posts: 2
    After dealing with an extensive set of problems on my 2003 Acura CL, I've been shopping around for a replacement. The Accord Coupe seemed like a natural choice.

    For whatever reason, dealer inventory is pitiful in Colorado, so I was only able to test drive the automatic transmission models.

    I4 EX-L: Great car, reminds me of my 98 Accord Coupe, except more like a BMW. I want it in my driveway as soon as possible.

    V6 EX-L: Between 70 and 80 mph, it felt like the front wheels were out of balance. I even got the salesman to acknowledge the problem during the test drive. From what I've read in this forum, the vibration could be related to the VCM. If so, Honda did not fix the problem for 2009.

    I've enjoyed reading about this, and appreciate being steered away from the V6 with VCM.

    Has anyone driven the V6 MT? Any drivetrain problems?

    cheers,
    --Seth
    Colorado Springs
  • elliott2elliott2 Member Posts: 64
    Just had the tires high speed balances again on my 2008 Accord (we've had it 9 months, this is the third time). Honda now puts on the repair order that the vibration from the car runing in ECO mode is a normal characteric of this model. Too bad the advertising stated that the VCM operation is virtually seamless when I purchased the car.

    A warning to potential buyers of the 2009 Accord, it has the same problem as the 2008. The VCM V6 is not the smooth powerful engine of the previous generation. There are much better cars available for the cost of this car.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    I AGREE... CAVEAT EMPTOR
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,146
    >Honda now puts on the repair order that the vibration from the car runing in ECO mode is a normal characteric of this model.

    Wow. :cry:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    completly unreal.
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    >

    Too bad they didn't put the same thing in their brochures and other marketing and promotional materials. I could have saved myself a lot of money and aggravation.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    Why Honda would not find a way to eliminate the shimmy/vibration at highway speeds is simply amazing... they have some of the best engineers in the world and they cant figure this out??? makes no sense... and for the dealers to NOW say the vibrationin the V6 is a normal byproduct of ECO/VCM seems crazy.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    I am not sure why the Accord VCM is even having an issue, when this is older technology. The Odyssey van has this.

    If they were smart, they would get rid of the notification of the ECO light, and perhaps give the driver a button to turn off or on the feature. When they wanted the feature on, a simple icon would be nice to let you know that when the condition is right the VCM will engage, but you will not know exactly when it does engage. I am sure some find it annoying for it to be flashing on the dash anyway, and who wouldn't want to feel it switching over. Doing the above would give drivers to be able to take full advantage of the V6, but when they want to be more conservative, then they could simply push the button to engage the feature, then you know that at anytime it would engage.

    Dealers are of course wanting to cover for this dilemma,I am sure it is not the norm of what "Honda" wanted. Dealers make excuses, when "we" the consumer know our cars, and know when something is not right. Hopefully Honda will look at all the cases of this, and are working on this for the 09 models.

    I know if I had a V6, I wouldn't always want that feature on, I would love the option to turn this option off, and wouldn't want to see a light flashing on and off all the time, making me observe if it was working.
  • idn2008idn2008 Member Posts: 6
    I started to read with great interest all of the discussions here after I decided to buy an EXL-V6 in early July. I am happy to report that after almost two months and 2,000 miles, I haven't experienced any of the problems reported here. Maybe I am just lucky but two relatives who also own 2008 EXL-V6 haven't experienced any of those problems either.

    Also, the ECO light doesn't bother me at all.
  • csr67csr67 Member Posts: 58
    "Also, the ECO light doesn't bother me at all."

    I totally agree. The eco light is not intrusive at all, in fact if I did not look for it, I would not even know the VCM was activated. For those who don't want the ECO on all the time, that's easy, just stay on the gas!
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    "....For those who don't want the ECO on all the time, that's easy, just stay on the gas! ..."

    Options are growing here, the last recommendation about a couple of months ago was to put a piece of duct tape over the light :)
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    totally agree as far as the option ON/OFF... Like I have said since last Oct 2007.. let me decide when I want to go green,,, give me the option. btw I dont even notice the ECO light since i have my eyes on the road 95% of the time... the vibration at 60-70MPH and the constant surging of the VCM is far more noticable to me than the light that indicates a change.....
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    I would think most people care about the VCM or alike technology because they are looking for ways to save gas, for most people "being green" is probably the secondary benefit. Back to VCM, I was out of town in Tahoe area a few days ago and noticed a big difference in my engine's handling, including VCM and surging effect. Where I live is a lot warmer than Tahoe area, could it be that the people living in the colder parts of the country are having more issues with the VCM? My car is back to normal now that I am back home in northern CA. To validate my theory, I would like to take another trip to Tahoe area.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Interesting. How about the elevation?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • idn2008idn2008 Member Posts: 6
    And it's not even winter yet!
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    Elevation up in Tahoe is about 6000, that could be a factor as well.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    Ok so this will sound VERY odd, but I have confirmed this with 3 other drivers and my sales rep at the Honda dealer.... ALL of the 08 and 09 V6's I have driven all shimmy / vibrate at 64-71MPH with the most notable vibrations occurring at 65-67 MPH. what is highly mysterious is that ALL of the vibration affected accords have NAVIGATION. Yesterday we drove 3 diff 09 ACCORDS all made in Marysville and delivered in AUG, all V6's- 4 door sedans and ALL had NO NAVIGATION... each one drove smooth like butter..... no vibration, and minimal VCM shock... ??? anyone see this..??

    Navi should make NO impact on the suspension, struts, wheels/tires etc. but we proved this out with several cars yesterday and at 2 diff dealerships in our area..

    very very odd.....
  • idn2008idn2008 Member Posts: 6
    Very interesting! Mine is EXL-V6 without Navi and, as I have said before, I haven't experienced any of the VCM related problems reported here. Thank goodness I never think the built-in Navi system is worth my money anyway.

    Could it be because the Navi system introduces some frequency interference to the the active control engine mount (ACM) used to decrease engine-to-chassis vibration when the engine is in cylinder pause mode, rendering the ACM less effective at certain speeds/RPMs?
  • idn2008idn2008 Member Posts: 6
    Guess what, the one used in the Wall Street Journal test was also a Navi model!

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120111703171810629.html?mod=todays_us_weekend_jo- urnal
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    I dont know,,, it seems unreasonable that Navi would have any impact on anything other than guidance... but I had 3 other people with me during all the testing and NONE of the 09 V6 w/o Navi demonstrated what as many as 9 (yes nine) 08 and 09 V6 accords w/ Navi did.. all had vibration issues at 65-70MPH. one note.. at 80MPH these v6 navis were smooth so you could drive out of the vibration.. this would tell most people its tires, wheels or suspension design/operating issues. but Honda says no, everything is normal and fine. so, I am not sure what the deal is but its very interesting. I am still totally baffled as to why Honda would allow street production of this model with this issue. its like coming out with "NEW COKE" and then reverting back to the original once everyne has a chance to taste it.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    WOW.... I really think we are on to something here.
  • keitha3keitha3 Member Posts: 124
    Agreed. This might be a major breakthrough to at least identifying the cause of the issue. I hope others with the problem chime in and note whether they have the navigation. Right now, I'm glad I'm one that is more than happy with my Garmin. And, thankfully, I haven't experienced the shimmying in my Accord.

    Good luck to all those having the problem.
  • cgyfiremancgyfireman Member Posts: 12
    No Nav....no problems.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    No NAV, no shimmy, but I have had a wheel bearing replaced, new windshield, new back panel and new speakers (when the dealer went to replace the bad speaker, they broke the clips and had to replace the entire back panel) valves adjusted for the ticking noise and software update for the slow shift to D. Plus I still have the VCM issue.

    FYI - Dealers have been low balling me on trade in with this car. I suspect they know what we all know.
  • csr67csr67 Member Posts: 58
    No Nav on my 2008 and no shimmy or VCM issues at all. I took a Lexus 350 driving co-worker out today and he commented how he had no idea that the Accord V6 had VCM and he was amazed at how smooth the ride/shifts were. He drove it for a bit and was very impressed. If you're considering the v6, go drive it yourself before falling prey to all the naysayers...
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    I have the navi and no known problems with the VCM. I noticed some erratic behavior of the engine when I was in high altitudes a week ago but that has happened to other cars w/ no VCM.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    naysayer only for the issues discussed... we're trying to ID a connection here with the "NAV's and NAV-Nots" Hoping more people chime in on what they see with or without Nav.. I test drove yet another NO NAV V6 today and low and behold... NO ISSUES... something is up here.
  • ncjimncjim Member Posts: 3
    2008 EX-V6: Have had significant vibration at 45-50 MPH (always) and often above that since day 1. NO NAVI. Have had the vehicle for a month. 1600 miles. No improvement yet. I do notice that it is particularly noticeable/annoying when the engine is cold. Later in the day, it seems to dissipate somewhat. My mistake was in test driving on local roads, i.e. no greater than 40 MPH. If they could engineer a way to undo the VCM, I'd be more than happy to take a straight 6 all the time and sacrifice the gas mileage at this point.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    Totally agree. Thanks for the info. I am beside myself still how a Honda Accord, the end all be all of smooth transmissions was/is allowed to hit the streets with this issue..its puzzling.
  • me72me72 Member Posts: 2
    i'm new here....just purchased a new accord ex-l v6 no navi. 3 days after purchase, the vsa light and several other lights came on. car shook and was hardly drivable. went into service dept where i purchased the car. it has now been in that service dept THREE times now for the vcm problem. the first time one of the rear cylinders was causing a "misfire". got that fixed, now a front one is doing the same thing. my states lemon law is 4 times. i do not want the car back, its junk, i am fearful to drive it. i have contacted my attorney general's office as well as honda corp (who has yet to call me back after leaving 3 messages with them AND having the person paged!!) i have done research and i know others have this problem...ive seen it in ohio and new jersey.
    i'm very angry that honda is getting away with this when its a known problem. i feel like i have to drive a death trap!
  • keitha3keitha3 Member Posts: 124
    Really sorry to hear that. Even though I haven't experienced the problem myself as of yet, Honda's attitude toward the issue makes me furious and much less trusting of their name.

    Honda, do what is right! :mad: This disappointment will erode your previously good name. It isn't worth it.

    Me72, I hope you get even cent you paid on that Lemon back.

    By the way, do you have navigation in it?
  • me72me72 Member Posts: 2
    no, do not have navigation.

    i finally heard back from the case manager. claims he's never heard of any problems with the vcm. :mad: :lemon:
  • keitha3keitha3 Member Posts: 124
    Send him a link to this thread.

    By the way, he shouldn't even be in his position if he's walking around blindfolded as to a very significant issue with the new Accords. I find it unbelievable that he's unaware.

    Honda, you designed, engineered, and distributed this car, no? Shouldn't you know more about it than anyone else and shouldn't you put that engineering talent to coming up with a fix for the poor folk who are enduring the problem, i.e. your customers? :sick:

    Sorry for the ranting folks, but this is just stupid.
  • anthonyyanthonyy Member Posts: 13
    For over 20 some years we used Honda Accords, either purchased or leased. We have been loyal customer of Honda Motorcars simply because they build a reliable car and had good service. We never encountered any problems until we purchased an entirely new model Honda Accord 2008.
    As in the past we expected a new car with no problems. We test drove the car in the city at 35-40 miles per hour without any problems. However, after we took the car on the highway from 55 miles per hour to 62 miles we felt vibration in the steering wheel and some vibration in the accelerator pedal. Additionally there was a humming sound. The humming sound was a lot more noticeable when we drove next to the highway divider.
    I took the car to the dealer and complained of the problems. The Assistant Manager test drove the car, he thought that perhaps the tires were imbalanced so he rotated and replaced 2 tires. The problem did not get alleviated. The Assistant . Manager and a mechanic both test drove the car and both admitted in front of me that they noticed the same problem. The Asst. Manager told me that they were presenting this problem to their engineering people in Los Angeles with the request to respond. After numerous calls to see if they received any response from their L.A. engineering department. In the meantime the service center borrowed a 2008 Honda Accord ( exact model as mine) for me to test drive. I confirmed that there was also a vibration problem with this new car so the Asst. Manager also drove this car and confirmed after he test drove the car himself that indeed there was vibration.
    A month went by when the service center still had no response from their engineering department in L.A .
    They suggested that I'd bring in the car back in when their Service Manager from Honda Motorcar Co. in Michigan who is in charge of all the Service Centers belonging to the car dealer in this region visited their service center. He calls on all service centers on a regular basis.
    At their request I brought the car in and met the Service Center Manager from Michigan. He was accompanied by the local Service Manger, their mechanic and myself to drive the car on the highway.
    I proceeded to explain the problems to the Michigan Service Manager and what the local Service Center had done for this car up to this point, namely replace two tires and balance all tires, that they had borrowed a new 2008 identical car model to mine to test drive and found the same vibration when the speeds reached 58-64mph.
    The Honda Service Manager from Michigan, he was accompanied by the local Service Manager , myself and the mechanic took a test drive and he also experienced the vibration. While test driving . While he noticed the vibration at speeds of 58 mph. I called to their attention about the humming noise and they did not acknowledge nor deny it. They told me that they would arrange for another new car, same model for test driving and asked me to bring the car back the following week.
    I took the car back the following week, they had a new Honda with same model waiting . The Service Manger from Honda Motor in Michigan , local service manager and a mechanic accompany me for the highway road test. I told them I felt the vibration as well as the humming notice with this new car. do not see any difference with my own car.The Service Manager from Honda Motor said this was normal performance of Honda 2008 model therefor they are nothing they can do for me.
    I called Honda Motor Customer Service and complained about the vibration and humming noise . She said her record indicated this was a normal designed performance of their new Honda Motor. Therefore they are not obligated to do anything about this complain. I asked her why Honda Motor failed to disclose to us when we purchase the 2008 Honda Accord that this car model will vibration at 58 to 62 + MPH? She just said this is a normal performance of the Honda Accord 2008 model,
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    He/she is not shooting straight. This is well documented issue w/ many customers that honda has been and continues to address. not cool at all, they need to be honest with you.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    soo dissapointing
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    ......on the highway from 55 miles per hour to 62 miles we felt vibration in the steering wheel and some vibration in the accelerator pedal.....

    Okay, I have to ask, just how BAD is it? Does it feel like the wheels are going to fly off the car? Is the steering wheel shaking your hands, or is it just something you can feel? I can tell when my car is in 3 cyl mode, and I have to be honest, I love it! It's a harmonic hum and it puts a smile on my face knowing I'm running on 3 cyl vs 6. I even try to coax the gas pedal to try to get it in, and keep it in 3 cyl mode. At higher speeds, generally 65+, it will run in 4 cyl mode. For perspective, I also have a Chevy Avalanche with cyl deactivation, and I can also tell when it's in 4 cyl vs 8 mode. It's just the nature of the engine - when you have less than all cyl's working, it's unbalanced, and I think Honda has done an excellent job in minimizing the effects. Now, if you're experiencing shaking and vibration where it feels like the wheels are going to fall off, then I think you have another problem altogether. If it's something you can just feel and you don't like it, I'm afraid Honda Motor Co won't be able to make you happy under any circumstances.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    its a systemic problem in the VCM design.... if yours doesnt shimmy to the degree most do, (I have tested about 11 differant V6 sedans 2008 and 09's then you are lucky. the point of the ANC and Active Motor Mts is to provide a "completely seamless" ride and eliminate any by product of an
    "unbalanced" motor operation....
  • keitha3keitha3 Member Posts: 124
    That really bothers me. I know there is always going to be some variance between different cars of the same model, but the VCM engines seems to be all over the map. To me, that indicates not only a design issue, but quality control issues as well.

    I wonder what percentage of the VCM's have the problem.
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    ....the point of the ANC and Active Motor Mts is to provide a "completely seamless" ride and eliminate any by product of an
    "unbalanced" motor operation....

    I'm not invalidating anyone's experiences, but to say it's a systemic problem I think is a stretch. The fact Honda has changed their advertising from "completely seamless" to "nearly seamless" was a response to those who are sensitive to the changes going on with VCM. Honda admitted their mistake in advertising by changing the description of operation to a more accurate statement.
  • kegobasskegobass Member Posts: 7
    According to their website as of 9/22/08, VCM supposed to be seamless. They actually say the word "seamless" twice. I like the part when they say "completely un-noticeable to the driver".

    Not sure where you are seeing the advertising change.

    http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/features.aspx?feature=vcm
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,146
    >The transition between the three operating modes is nearly seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers

    This is what the page to which you linked says. Note what it doesn't say here. It doesn't say "driver" anywhere. It says the "transition" will be unnoticed. It does not say running in any one of the modes will be unnoticed. And it says this will be unnoticed by the _passenger_, not the driver. I like the slick way they have written the advertising to make people think it says one thing while it says another, and says less.

    You may have another page where they mentioned driver.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kegobasskegobass Member Posts: 7
    Either way, Honda and the dealerships are denying there's any problem. The dealership I brought my car to twice said they couldn't even re-produce it which I know is a complete lie. I had 6 people drive the car and I told them nothing. The came back and said two things.

    1. The car is very jerky in general. Mostly when coming to a stop.

    2. The car surges/de-surges on the highway like it's trying to shift.

    I have my 2008 Honda EX-L in the shop for the 3rd time for these issues. After this, I'm most likely looking at the lemon law. :lemon:
  • snagssnags Member Posts: 27
    The irony of all this is that mthere isnt a significant savings in gas after all is said and done with VCM.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Considering what it would be WITHOUT it, I beg to differ. The non-VCM manual transmission Accord V6 is rated 17/25, much lower than the 19/29 of the VCM-equipped vehicle.
  • kegobasskegobass Member Posts: 7
    I'm getting ~22mpg with about 1300 miles which is obviously on the low end. I drive 60% city and 40% highway. The highway % would be higher but it's mostly sitting in traffic on the highway so I equate that with city.

    Either way, i would like to see Honda offer a switch to turn the VCM on/off. I personally would shut it off due to the surge/de-surge issue. Just like turning off the VSA.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If you're getting 22 MPG with a lot of "sitting" I'd say that's pretty good, actually.

    May I ask what you drove previously, and what mileage it got? :)
  • kegobasskegobass Member Posts: 7
    Sure, I drove a 2006 G35 Sedan. I got roughly the same gas mileage. It was a stick though so that might be part of getting roughly the same MPG in a car that has almost 300hp.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Plus, the G35 weighed closer to 3300 lbs vs. the Accord's roughly 3600 lbs. Extra mass to get moving in stop and go traffic will hurt it more than it will on the highway (takes more effort to start weight moving than it does to keep it moving, so extra weight hurts more in stop and go).

    I imagine your highway mileage in the Honda would be noticeably better than the Infiniti.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    No, Honda changed their advertising to reduce complaints or maybe even lawsuits (IMO)
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