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Honda Accord VCM

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Comments

  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    I have driven both previous accords and camry. The issue for me is not the shift or surge of the VCM engaging it is the untolerable chassis vibration that I believe is occurring due to the unbalance of the engine during cylinder de-activation. The active engine mounts are not working as good as advertised and I would not expect a $30K car to be anything but completely stable. The car feels like it has constantly unbalanced tires. When the time comes to replace this sales car there is no way in the world that Honda will get our business if I have to put up with this for the next two years.
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    The vibration only occurs at speeds above 50 mph. Around town the car is perfectly smooth, and the vibration is not in the steering wheel. I feel it in the seat which leads me to believe that it is coming from the power/drive train. I have already had the car tires replaced and road/load balanced. Am I the only one who is having a constant vibration at speeds above 50? If there a fix I am all ears, please help. Thanks
  • klunkmanklunkman Member Posts: 80
    I have not heard of anyone having a constant vibration above 50. You should take it back to the dealer and demand they look into the likelihood that this ludicrous VCM contraption is malfunctioning. :mad:

    Perhaps they can turn the VCM off. However, your fuel economy will probably drop to 17 city, 25 highway, my guess. :D

    I'm trying, Pat.
  • jon0721jon0721 Member Posts: 25
    I agree, I have had my V6 Coupe for a month now and yeah it's "different" feeling but I understand the benefits of the technology and thusly it doesn't bother me at all. It has been out long enough to be tested. The loner I have the car the more "normal" it will feel. I LOVE the V6 Gas Mileage though...My HHR was a weak 4 cyl and I get the same avg MPH!!! Yeah I'll take the little shudder now and then........The benefits far outweigh the annoyances,

    I have found cruise control keeps the ECO light on where as my control is less smooth. I try to drive with the ECO light on all the time. Its a challenge.
  • jon0721jon0721 Member Posts: 25
    There is something about a lot of vehicles one needs to "get used to"

    The hard ride of a BMW 335...hit your head on the ceiling running over a paper cup.
    The less than expected cushy ride of a $35k Maxima.......
    The lackluster acceleration of a 2.4 Chevy engine in a Malibu
    The jumpyness of a G37 Infiniti...
    The engine noise and constant AT shifting of a Honda Accord 4cyl
    The LACK of all engine sound in a Lexus!!

    Its just a matter of what one desires and can "get used to" All vehicles have their personalities. I like a more visceral driving experience. I like "knowing" the engine is running. I like a softer ride with decent handling. The Altima Coupe had neither. The Infiniti had both but in the end simply wasn't worth $10K more...I test drove the Maxima and expected a far cushier ride and well ''"sport suspension" is the rule there.

    The BMW was my brothers.....He sold it after 4 months, and bought a ES350 because of the ride (and fuel pump issues)

    Yeah we all have to get used to that which is new and different. Some can some are OCD about their cars and will NEVER be truly satisfied.

    Here is something else I noticed about my Accord...I can actually feel the transmission downshft into 1st at very low speeds YIKES??? :cry::cry:
  • jon0721jon0721 Member Posts: 25
    " I would not expect a $30K car to be anything but completely stable. "

    Honda Accord is not a $30,000 car!!! Its a $20,000 car with $10,000 in "options" And I don't know anyone who paid even $30K for any Accord. If so......... their bad..
  • jon0721jon0721 Member Posts: 25
    Ok, by now, I have driven probably three dozen different V-6 Accords and I ahve been along on many, many test drives.

    NOT ONCE have I felt or experienced this "problem" and it has never been brought by a customer.

    Apparently you and your customers "got used to it" :):):):)

    Some people should not buy new cars. Expectations for many will never match with reality.......Those people wonder why Honda Accord owners buy Extended Warranties..They expect Honda to be free of all defects.

    We do (and they are far less expensive than a Chevy) because we live in the real world and know even one issue can cost more than the $655 I paid for my 0 deduct 80K 84 month Honda Care EW. At that price its hard NOT to buy one. At twice that price it's hard not to buy a Malibu EW even with the 100k PT warranty.

    I expect there will be issues. but far less of the kind that just keep you going back and nickel diming one to the tune of $200-300 per visit to death.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It's hard to "get used to" something we can't feel.
  • elliott2elliott2 Member Posts: 64
    Unfortunately, there are many drivers who don't feel much while driving, including a flat tire. You've seen them along the highway when they finally pull over because the tire came off the rim.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, right!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Isell, your opinion that no VCM issue exists is crystal clear. However, it is just as clear that others are experiencing events that are problematic for them.

    It is not helpful to anyone for you to keep popping up here telling people that what they perceive does not exist. Your opinion is noted. Feel free to move on.
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Member Posts: 275
    A recent 350 mile round trip had my wife questioning if my transmission was slipping. I reminded her that once again she was perceiving the imperceptible, at least as advertised by Honda. I do not consider her a person who is in tune to the driving experience, her Mazda Protege frequently has tires 7-10 pounds under inflated and would remain that way if not for my watchful eye. While I've grown accustomed to the drive-line shudder that is VCM, at least in my iteration, there are times that it can be quite noticeable, particularly now with the colder New England temperatures. The upside is that I got 28 MPG. Not bad for a car that was full of gear, both trunk and back seat, with 275 hwy miles up to 80 mph and 75 miles stop & go, rural mix. Bear in mind that other cars of this size will get equal and slightly better mileage using a 6 speed auto tranny and not have the feeling associated with VCM.
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Member Posts: 169
    Pat

    So by this logic the posters who repeatedly post the same complaint regarding VCM over and over are deemed to have exhausted their opinions as well correct ?

    Some of these posters no longer even own a Honda product.

    At what point are these posters who have beaten their points to death told to "feel free to move on"

    ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    I agree Pat. I do not have an OCD with cars, but I am particular enough to expect a smooth ride free of steering wheel and chassis vibration. I am convinced that the chassis vibration I feel at 60-75 MPH is related to the VCM and it would be interesting if HONDA would reprogram the VCM to only shut down to 4 cyclinders so that they could keep the engine balanced. My dealer has rebalanced the wheels again, cut the rotors, and now just ordered a new set of tires. This will be the second set of new tires and this is all being done under warranty. For a car that has 20K miles on it and could be considered out of warranty I am very appreciative of the help. It also tells me that Honda realizes this is a problem and is attempting to keep the consumer happy. I just wish they would fit the root cause of the problem. FYI - I test drove a brand new 2010 V6 with NAV (same as my car) and it had a worse vibration at 60. This is not in my head and is the first car I have ever had with this type of vibration that could not be easily fixed. Still very frustrated.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    People who are having issues with their VCM are free to discuss them here. If we can help with solutions, that's what we'll try to do, whatever sort of solution that might be.

    It is not necessary for people who believe that VCM issues do not exist to keep saying that over and over here in this discussion. The issues clearly do exist for some people. Those who don't believe that the issues exist and who have made that clear over a vast number of posts do indeed need to feel free to move on to other subjects.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,146
    Has Honda come up with a PROM rewrite that eliminates VCM completely? That would be great for checking to see if VCM operation is causing a vibration from the motor end of things.

    If Honda hasn't, is there an aftermarket company that provides computer chips or alterations to effect that end. Someone out there is enough of a geek that surely they could try the altered programming and then rewrite the origional programming back. It's a shame to have to wait through the 36000 mile warranty period before being free to try a test like that.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • klunkmanklunkman Member Posts: 80
    Yeah we all have to get used to that which is new and different. Some can some are OCD about their cars and will NEVER be truly satisfied.

    Hallelujah!!!! Couldn't agree more. The guy who says that Honda's lost their business? Fine. Move on, dude. The rest of us don't care. Go buy your Camrys with wallowy suspensions and contact your dealer with "Oh, Toyota needs to fix this floaty marshmallow ride, where I couldn't feel a boulder if I drove over it, or they'll never get my business." At which point they should go buy a Buick.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    "People who are having issues with their VCM are free to discuss them here".

    Pat:
    Thank you.
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Member Posts: 169
    you missed the entire point of my post, whether coincidental or on purpose.
  • elliott2elliott2 Member Posts: 64
    I am more interested in hearing about the problems and views that people have with this car (I have a 2008 Accord V6 with NAV) and how the problems were resolved, not a personal attack on the people posting their problems/views.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'd say you missed mine. Feel free to email me if you want to pursue this, but it's not appropriate here.

    Enough please - let's get back on topic here, everyone.
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    Honda just replaced all four (4) tires under warranty, road force balanced, and re-installed the tires with the weights 180 deg. opposite the thicker section of the rotors. This combination has taken the +60 mph constant vibration out of the chassis. I can still feel the VCM engagement but it is not that bothersome now that the vibration is gone. The suspension on the Accords are very sensitive, which provides great road feel but can be very annoying if something is out of wack.
  • choppedntubbedchoppedntubbed Member Posts: 39
    Thanks for the update, wisale. I am glad it isn't as bothersome now. So, does this validate that the VCM was not the cause of your +60 constant vibration, or do you still feel that the VCM compounded it?
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    I believe that the majority of the constant vibration is related to the sensitivity of the suspension along with rotors that are not balanced. I would still like to drive the car with the VCM turned off to see the effect, but at this point I am very happy to have a car that is not always vibrating at highway speeds. I just wanted to let others see this post so that they may try the same thing to help them.
    I think that Yes the VCM did compound the problem. The only frustrating part is that when I test drove a brand new V6 Accord it vibrated more than my car. You do not notice it unless you take it up to highway speeds, which is why many buyers who do not drive the car fast enough may see this during the test drive.
  • klunkmanklunkman Member Posts: 80
    I'd love nothing more. Like I've said before on here, the VCM activation is not totally unnoticable, but nowhere near the aggravating bane of my existence that others have stated.

    One thing I have noticed recently is that the main "change" when the VCM activates isn't the vibration so much as an audible change in engine tone. When I'm listening to music, I am far and away less likely to perceive the VCM activation than when I'm driving in silence. And when I'm doing any kind of spirited driving, which is when I want to really enjoy the car, the VCM seldom engages.

    The bottom line for me is that VCM is worth the almost 4-cylinder level of fuel economy, with the power of a V6 when you need (want?) it. Honda could come out with a 6-speed auto next year that delivers similar fuel economy without the need for VCM, and that would be fine too IMO, but then you'd have more auto-shifting vibrations to deal with, so it's probably a wash.
  • hondafoolhondafool Member Posts: 9
    I'm really unhappy with VCM. I usually buy a new Accord when the model year changes, sometimes sooner. I've got a beautiful but exasperating V-6 4-door and VCM plays a large part inmy frustration. It seems like in the last couple of weeks it's gotten much more noticable when it can't decide between 3 or 4 cylinders. I have to adjust my speed a lot of times just to help it lock in on one or the other. There is also more vibration than I've ever noticed before. It's really got me wondering if I'll be able to stay true to the brand. I will promise this though. I'll never have VCM in another vehicle unless it's truly "imperceptable" as it was written in another review--probably by a Honda employee.

    Oh, fwiw, this is my 7th Honda Accord since 1982 and I hate to think my last but I'm considering it strongly.

    I'll search for another thread on the brake problem. I've already had my rear ones replaced before reaching 30000 miles. That's unacceptable too.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    It's logical to me, that any normal 3 or 4 cylinder engine would have more vibration than a V6 engine, at any rpm. A 4 cylinder Accord will have more vibration, and sound different from a V6 engine. It's probably impossible to totally eliminate some changes, in sound and feel. These differences may not be so apparent to someone who listens to music with the volume up. But someone who rides around in silence, and finds him/herself concentrating on the changes, it's easy to see how this could become a real problem. One thing this issue has taught me, is to thoroughly test drive my next potential car purchase (at all speeds), before signing on the dotted line.
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    Try to use your cruise control when the highway. I found that the VCM is much less noticable when the cruise in engage. Just my 2cents.
  • hondafoolhondafool Member Posts: 9
    "Try to use your cruise control when the highway. I found that the VCM is much less noticable when the cruise in engage. Just my 2cents. "

    Thanks for the suggestion. I have a 70 mile round-trip commute so once I'm on the 4-lane I slip into cruise control. On those days when I'm in a really big hurry I'll set the cruise on 74 mph and don't experience the back-and-forth nearly as much, if at all. But it's on the days like today when I set the cruise at 65 mph that it's really noticeable.

    I understand why Honda went in this direction. The car is heavier than in previous iterations. It has more horsepower and the tires are wide...all detriments to good gas mileage. I'd strongly consider the 4-cylinder if it came with the same features/option package.

    I've got my eye on the Crosstour but as I previously stated, if it has VCM and the issue hasn't been corrected I'll have to pass.
  • jon0721jon0721 Member Posts: 25
    Have had my 2010 Coupe since October and have 950 miles on it... I DO feel the VCM working...But I don't mind it. I am getting 21 MPG in town driving and the pick up when I need it is there. As far as I am concerned the VCM is working like it should.

    Yeah it feels different than past cars but I would rather that then get 17 MPG on the V6. I did notice it on the test drive as well so no surprises here.

    For those who do not want to "feel" the VCM on a Honda...all I can say is find another brand. There are plenty to choose from. I cannot imagine buying a car without test driving it , nor can I believe the VCM technology was completely transparent on a PROPER test drive.
  • galvannigalvanni Member Posts: 8
    I have had an 08 EX Sedan VCM since Aug of 08 and it did bother me for like 4-6 months, but it does not bother me at all now - just takes some getting used to. Other than that, the car has been perfect - no other problems. I do like the power of this engine even though it's much rougher even when all cyl are activated. When I merge onto a hwy from a ramp - I say to my passengers - "Ladies and gentlemen thank you for flying Air Honda.." Then I let 'er rip and slingshot right into the outter lanes with my foot planted. Ok, that's car abuse, but hey - it's fun.
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    Sorry to report that the vibration has come back and the VCM has been surging and cutting out like the engine was going to die. I had enough and traded the car in for a Subaru Legacy. This is not my first Honda, so don't bash me and say good riddance. I gave Honda more than enough chances (over 8 trips to service) to fix this car and could not take the chance of being stranded in the middle of winter or have to put up with the vibrations this car had working against it. The Subaru is absolutely spectacular and will be keeping my business for years to come. This will be my last Honda!!!!
  • choppedntubbedchoppedntubbed Member Posts: 39
    But, I thought you said in a previous post that this wasn't even your car??? You said you got it from your employer about a month ago, with 19,000 miles on it. How can you sell or trade in a car that isn't even yours??? Just trying to set things straight here.

    Here is a quote from your 11-16-09 post:

    " I am glad this is not my car and I will tell you that I will never buy a Honda with my own money if this issue is not resolved by Honda Corp."
  • choppedntubbedchoppedntubbed Member Posts: 39
    Are you really sure you are happy with your Subaru? Based on your post on the Subaru forum, it sounds like you are already having transmission problems????

    "I just bought a new 2010 Legacy 3.6R Limited which I absolutely love. This is my first Subaru and this car rocks. I have on question regarding the transmission. When starting from a stop and turning either left or right it feels like the transmission is not smooth/slipping. This does not happen when going straight from a dead stop, so it may be the CV joint. Just wanted to know if anyone else has experienced the same thing and if it is just related to the Subaru. Thanks. "
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Maybe he meant he was leasing the Accord and you yourself are quoting him as saying he "absolutely love(s)" his Subaru.

    This is about the VCM feature of the Accord, not other posters. Let's stick to the topic. Thank you.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Folks, please - if you want to talk about the VCM, let's do so. If you want to talk about each other, well, just don't do it.

    Thanks to all who choose to cooperate.
  • blue_boyblue_boy Member Posts: 52
    My wife's 2009 exl v6 Accord Sedan has none of the issues I read about here (don't know about brake wear yet). No VCM hunting or vibration; no rattles (none whatsoever); no steering shimmy. On a 2200 mi round trip gas mileage ranged from 28 to 30+. On pretty days we drove 75/80 and on rainy (heavy) we drove 70. It has around 8,000 mi on it. I guess we lucked out.

    Just giving a little feedback about hers and not trying to say others don't have problems. We sold our 1998 v6 accord for 5700 (86,000 mi). The new one is so much better it doesn't even seem like the same company made it. For us, the extra size is great and the extra gas mileage above the 1998 (26 best) is a bonus.

    I guess we hear more about the problem ones as opposed to the good ones. I'm really not sure what would be normal but maybe since they sell so well my experience might be more typical.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Thanks for providing your anecdotal evidence. Glad to hear you're enjoying your new Honda. :)
  • blue_boyblue_boy Member Posts: 52
    No problem. I wasn't really trying to "prove" anything with my experience. Just an observation. As you know, it's just one of many.

    Now, how about that CRZ! Accord for her; CRZ for me. :>)
  • wisalesmanwisalesman Member Posts: 10
    I should have know I would get roasted when I posted my message. I know this is for people who are having VCM issues and the reason I posted that I sold this car because it should be noted how many people finally get fed up enough to get rid of the car due to VCM issues.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Your post was fine. We're glad you've found a way to resolve the issue.

    Let's please move on.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    "Yeah it feels different than past cars but I would rather that then get 17 MPG on the V6. I did notice it on the test drive as well so no surprises here"

    Looks like you noticed a difference in your Accord also

    17MPG on a non VCM V6? The Camry V-6 DOHC with 268HP gets 19/28 with a fueleconomy.gov average of 26.9 MPG. The Accord SOHC with 271HP V-6 VCM gets 19/29 rating with fueleconomy.gov average of 23.0 MPG.
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Member Posts: 169
    """The Camry V-6 DOHC with 268HP gets 19/28 with a fueleconomy.gov average of 26.9 MPG. The Accord SOHC with 271HP V-6 VCM gets 19/29 rating with fueleconomy.gov average of 23.0 MPG.""""

    I don't know about you- but I'd take a few less miles per gallon versus a car that accelerates violently out of control killing its occupants.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't know about you- but I'd take a few less miles per gallon versus a car that accelerates violently out of control killing its occupants.

    Me too. Fortunately, the Camry isn't killing people; the dipsticks using mats on top of other mats are the ones killing themselves.
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    "17MPG on a non VCM V6? The Camry V-6 DOHC with 268HP gets 19/28 with a fueleconomy.gov average of 26.9 MPG. The Accord SOHC with 271HP V-6 VCM gets 19/29 rating with fueleconomy.gov average of 23.0 MPG"

    I guess I need to clarify my point. If Toyota can build a V6 that is similar in performance and gets the same gas mileage as the VCM engine then what is the advantage of the VCM? I am asking because I do not know. I do know that it has issue's with certain people and I can only guess that 1/2 your engine will be wore out before the other half?
  • blue_boyblue_boy Member Posts: 52
    Not sure why you would expect 1/2 the engine to wear out twice as fast. All 6 pistons operate at all times. Just no fuel to some of them.

    I expect that the Honda engineers did their homework (as usual). Anything else is just conjecture.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Because its cheaper to use VCM to remain competitive for now than push forward a new line of V6 engines to compete with Toyotas much newer and more efficient 2GR V6 engine. The current J series V6 engines Honda is producing has been around since the late 90s; think '98 V6 Accord, 3.0L, 200hp. That's 12 years.

    Toyota has 7 years of engineering up on Honda; their 3.5L 2GR debuted in the current Avalon 5 years ago.
  • blue_boyblue_boy Member Posts: 52
    Looks like Honda didn't do too badly either:
    http://wardsauto.com/reports/2009/tenbest/best_engines_2009_081205/

    Ward’s Announces 2009 10 Best Engines Winners
    By Ward’s Staff
    WardsAuto.com, Dec 5, 2008 12:54 PM
    Special Report
    Ward’s 10 Best Engines
    SOUTHFIELD, MI – Amid plummeting vehicle sales, thousands of job losses, an economy officially in recession and pleas for federal assistance, a handful of auto makers have cause to celebrate.

    Ward’s Automotive Group announces its 2009 10 Best Engines list, which reflects the diversity of powertrains that will play a role in reshaping America’s automotive landscape.

    ADVERTISEMENT
    Selected by Ward’s editors, the 2009 list marks the 15th year for the Ward’s 10 Best Engines program, the North American auto industry’s only awards honoring powertrain excellence and considered by many to be the “Oscars” for automotive engines.

    The Ward’s 10 Best Engines for 2009 (engine and tested vehicle):

    Audi AG: 2.0L TFSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (A4 Avant)
    BMW AG: 3.0L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (135i Coupe)
    BMW AG: 3.0L DOHC I-6 Turbodiesel (335d)
    Chrysler LLC: 5.7L Hemi OHV V-8 (Dodge Ram/Challenger R/T)
    Ford Motor Co.: 2.5L DOHC I-4 HEV (Escape Hybrid)
    General Motors Corp.: 3.6L DOHC V-6 (Cadillac CTS)
    Honda Motor Co. Ltd.: 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Accord Coupe)
    Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd.: 4.6L DOHC V-8 (Genesis)
    Toyota Motor Corp.: 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)
    Volkswagen AG: 2.0L SOHC I-4 Turbodiesel (Jetta TDI)
  • hackattack5hackattack5 Member Posts: 315
    Found this definition on the web. It looks like it explains everything.

    Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is Honda's term for a variable displacement technology. It uses the i-VTEC system to disable one bank of cylinders during specific driving conditions (for example, highway driving) to save fuel. The 2008 Accord takes this a step further allowing the engine to go from 6 cylinders, down to 4, and further down to 3 as the computer sees fit. Honda's VCM uses overhead cams as opposed to DaimlerChrysler's Multi-Displacement System and General Motors' Active Fuel Management pushrod systems.

    It uses a solenoid to unlock the cam followers on one bank from their respective rockers, so the cam follower floats freely while the valve springs keep the valves closed. The engine's drive by wire throttle allows the engine management computer to smooth out the engine's power delivery, making the system imperceptible. Vehicles equipped with VCM are equipped with an "ECO" indicator on the dashboard which corresponds to the VCM system's operation. Vehicles equipped with VCM also include Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) and Honda's Active Control Engine Mount (ACM) system. The ANC and ACM systems work in cooperation to cancel both noise and vibration that could occur in relation to the cylinder deactivation process. The ANC system uses the audio speakers to cancel out noise by using an opposite phase sound.
  • elliott2elliott2 Member Posts: 64
    Too bad it doesn't work as well as the marketing guys had hoped. Driving home on 95 tonight, I was acutely aware of the both the sound and vibration caused by the engine in three cylinder mode.
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