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Remember that Honda pumps noise canceling radio waves through your speakers if your radio is on or not. It does not surprise me that you can not hear anything.
I purchased the 2010 EX-L V6 couple with this "VCM" everyone is talking about. I had a lease on a 2006 Infiniti and had to turn back in. So I wanted a more practical car that is known for reliability since I drive to work about 44miles each way. When I test drove this car I didn't notice the VCM as I drove mostly non-highway. OMG. Please drive this car on the beltway at highway speeds. The VCM is VERY annoying to me. It feels like the engine is constantly "surging" and hesitating when it goes into less cylinders. It's VERY noticeable especially when coming out of a "regular" powerful v6. The "ECO" light constantly comes on and the engine feels very szchophrinic (kind of like it doesn't know what it wants to do when it grows up - LOL) and will take ME A LOT to get used to. If I had noticed that when I test drove it as bad as I do now I would NOT have purchased this car. The gas mileage isn't all that great either. If an engine is going "in and out " of power as frequently as this car does it should be getting VERY good gas mileage (Which it really doesn't).
I'm very disappointed with that new engine!! I honestly think it should be recalled because the transition isn't "SEAMLESS" as Honda claims on their website and literature. I HOPE this car ends up to be reliable (IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASON I BOUGHT IT). What I'm reading is that it's one of the least reliable of Honda's in many years. I didn't do all that much research on this model because I thought to myself how can you go wrong with buying a Honda? Well...the VCM for starters. We''ll see with reliability. In addition, the seats are very uncomfortable and (like most Honda's) has too much road noise.
On a positive, I think it's a nice looking car, the engine is quiet/smooth (when not constantly shifting on beltway speeds), spacious, uses regular gas (which my Infiniti required premium), like the hands free technology and the dealership I bought at has a LIFETIME WARRANTY which you can't beat. It's the only dealership in the area that gives that. SO, to recap, I probably wouldn't have bought this car if I noticed the VCM activating at highway speeds as an engine/transmission is very important to me. If it did all the VCM thing seamlessly and didn't notice it, than it would be perfect. Now that I have it, I hope it's something that I will get used to. Can anyway let me know if it bothered them at first, but now it doesn't??
I know a lot of people who have new accords, but all have the 4 cylinder so I can't ask and inquire about. I wish every luck in their car search.
I've had mine about ten weeks now with 2000 miles. I have not gotten used to it. It is extremely annoying on the highway. The weird thing is the smoother the road, the more annoying and noticeable it is. I feel about four different sensations:
- When eco light goes on/off there is a surge/hesitation
- While eco is engaged car vibrate/shimmies, also a side to side lurch/sway that occurs every 5-10 seconds, surges and hesitations and the power steering gets very light and loose feeling.
I also noticed it gets worse the more you drive. On a ten mile drive its not as noticeable, but the vibrating, surging gets worse on longer drives.
I have a meeting with a Honda Service Rep in two weeks. I have been complaining about this since the 3rd day I owned it. Honda doesn't seem to give a hoot about its customers. What good it a warranty if they refuse to address the issue?
By the way, am getting the worst gas mileage of any V6 I have ever owned by far!!
Had a 95 Maxima and a 02 CLK320. Both easily got 25-26 mixed driving. I'm lucky to get 22.
VCM activity was ever present as was the inability of the ANC to completely mask it. Despite this, it never became annoying to the point that it detracted from the driving experience. As Grad pointed out in a recent post, you shouldn't be surprised if in mixed driving you see a return of 22 MPG's, this is on the sticker for mixed driving, and after many years the EPA seemed to have developed a formula that truly relates to actual experience. On that subject I consumed 108 gallons which translates to 29.7 MPG, also on on the sticker for hwy MPG's. Criss crossing the Appalachian's a few times probably worked against my overall economy, which reached a best 33 MPG's on one tank. I'm sure that in some scenarios this vehicle could return 35 MPG's, lack of wind and flatter terrain would work towards that possibility.
This isn't a luxury sedan nor a sport sedan, but a family sedan. After putting more miles behind me in one week then I have ever done in my previous 30+ years of driving, my personal opinion is it's a pretty damn fine one at that.
I don't doubt some people are feeling something but it's news to us.
"Until I happened to stumble into this forum, I had NEVER ONCE heard anyone spek of this...Not once!"
Now that kind of sounds like post 2328 don't you think? Yep you stumbled onto 2300 posts most of which are complaints but you are still shocked to hear that anyone has a "gripe" :sick:
ALL I have ever said is I haven't heard of this problem nor have the others I work with.
I have driven quite a few V-6 Accords and I can't detect what others have complained about even after two years.
I never have said there wasn't a problem. It's just that you would think I would have heard other complaints besides this forum?
And, count my posts. I don't think it's "hundreds".
Seems like each side has never encountered the other sides observation! I do think that is really strange and don't understand how that could happen.
Is there anyone who has encountered both behaviors. If so, please speak up! Please!
I keep thinking one of these days I'll be driving a V-6 Accord or be riding in one and experience this.
Then I'll say..." So THAT'S what they are talking about!"
I test drove four different V6 accords with VCM and I can say that I felt the VCM off/on in each of them. Not something I want to "get used to". Neither of the two salesman had ever heard of the VCM issue, but when I discussed this with one of the service managers (I was at two different dealerships) he said they all do it and that it is just a characteristic of VCM.
My brother owns a chevy pickup that has GMs version of VCM (I didn't know they did this from chevy pickups). He says it's either in 8 cyl or 4 cyl mode. He can feel it changing, but it doesn't bother him and he would buy another truck with that feature. So I think it's just a matter of taste/tolerance. As for me, I wouldn't buy one. I think honda should have gone the 6 speed transmission route instead of VCM, but it's not my decision.
What bothers one person may not even be noticed (or cared about) by the masses?
" I was going to buy a V-6 but I better buy a 4 cylinder because of all of the VCM problems"
I had no idea what he was talking about.
" Oh, yeah, don't you know, it's all over the internet"
It is?
So, I came here and started reading.
I then asked the other salespeople if they had heard any complaints. I asked our Service Advisors and the head service guy from Honda when he visited our store.
Blank looks.
So I took a V-6 out and I tried everything to feel or hear anything...nothing.
Then I came here and basically got blasted by a couple of people who seem think I'm trying to make light of something that bothers them a lot.
I'm not. I just have yet to experience it myslef or have anyone else complain about this.
Maybe it's a case of the princess and the pea? Who knows? I've already spent too much time on it. Guess I'll just let this dog lie from now on.
I'm glad you're happy with your Accord!
" It isn't that great of a unit anyway"
They aren't?
The one in our 2007 Accord is flawless. It always seems to know what gear to be in. It doesn't "hunt" or shift back and forth.
Same with the one in our CRV.
That said, I agree that Honda should apply those same characteristics to a 6-speed auto.
These cars transmissions were smooth, powerful and pretty darn fast. They also got more MPG than they were rated. The Accord is 268hp, but most of the time the ECO light goes on and then I'm only sending gas to three or four cylinders. Honda used to be famous for surpassing EPA estimates, I guess not anymore.
The car is faster off the line, but is far, far worse on the highway. The transmission is not smooth at all in comparison and the wind and road noise is far worse.
I would think a 2010 model should outperform comparable 1995 and 2002 cars is pretty much all categories, especially gas with the VCM feature.
As far as noise goes, Hondas have always been noisier than comparable Nissans and Toyotas, and certainly noisier than a Mercedes. That's not different from Accords of the 90s to today (trust me, I have a '96 and an '06).
The absence of a six speed auto was another issue and yes, Honda needs to add the driver selectable gear control as well. I have seen this car manufacturer dance before when we were General Motors buyers. Honda seems to be taking it's past customers for granted. Why does it take Hyundai Sonata to bring excitement to this market segment?(No I did not buy one but they sure look great!)
I feel for the Honda service writers as they cannot show you any empathy since it might be construed as recognition of the VCM issue. When you start hearing the line"That's the way it is" or the implication that you should "Get used to it" it's time to look else where! Having a noise cancelling feature on the radio is nothing short of a band aid fix for an inherently rough engine noise. There are many other V6s out there that do just as well on gas with the same horsepower and no VCM!
Honda did change their marketing speil from "Seamless VCM" in the 2008 materials to "Nearly seamless VCM" on their 2009/2010 brochures.
I'm happy to hear some of you are "getting used to it" ..We just decided to move on to something else..
A couple of things. Yes, they got rid of the LED tailights. I don't know why but so nobody has said anything about it. It's one of those "who cares?" things. Obviously you do care. They also got rid of the overhead light that actually annoyed some people who would put tape over it.
I'm still trying to figure out why Honda should add another speed to their silky smooth transmissions that work so well. Why not seven speeds or ten?
A Service Advisor should have empathy. That's psrt of the job. It's hard though when they can't detect a problem.
I do agree that "seamless" was probably a bad word. " Nearly seamless" is much better but It sounds like for a few "nearly" isn't seamless enough.
I don't know what you replaced your Accord with but I hope it meets your expectations.
Our new 2010 EX-L V6 in the second Honda we have had with VCM and I cannot detect any changes whatsoever while driving. For my wife and I, VCM is indeed "seamless." It was seamless in our 2008 Odyssey too.
I have a 30+ mile test drive route that I always drive when I have finally decided on one specific car to buy. Ten miles of in-town streets, 10+ miles of country back roads and 10 miles of freeway @ 75+ mph. Trust me, any driveability/noise issues show up over this distance. Plus, the salesman doesn't go along, and the radio is turned off. I am listening to & feeling out the car and I don't want distractions.
I can emphasize with those who have VCM issues, but they need to understand that none of us here on this forum can help them in any way. Obviously, Honda isn't helping them. Worst case is they will need to dump their cars and take the financial hits if they can't live with it. It's a shame, but obviously a problem that only a few people have, and they simply shouldn't have bought the Accord.
Full disclosure: I had a 2008 V-6 Honda, felt the same things others are posting about, but thought the issue got ameliorated (but not totally resolved) by a software patch about 8-9 months after I bought the car; subsequently sold the car for a variety of other reasons pretty much unrelated to the VCM issue (if in fact it is a VCM issue). I was not dissatisfied with the car, but also didn't feel it lived up to its hype.
I only said that I hadn't heard anything from my vantage point and that is still the case.
I'm just trying to figure out what exactly people are hearing and feeling.
Obviously there must be "something" going on with some cars.
Then some of the 2007 Odysseys had problems with their torque converters that wouild cause a "juddering" at certain speeds. Again, Honda is on top of this and we are fixing the affected cars.
A more "advanced" transmission isn't less likely to have issues and adding extra gears dopesn't make a transmission "better".
Honda uses some CVT transmissions now but I wouldn't call them "better" in any way, just different. And this is nothing new. in 1948 Buick started using the Dynaflow automatics which worked the same way.
But, you are right. Honda can't rest on it's laurels. The market is fickle and it can trun quickly. I' m sure they are well aware of this and take whatever it takes to be on the forefront.
Here is a report straight from Wikipedia about Honda Odyssey owners complaining about VCM. Gas mileage problems too. Here are the quotes and the link:
- "Owners have reported shuddering from VCM operation, engine mount and/or torque converter issues"
- Consumer Reports noted in the 2005 auto issue that Odyssey was one of the vehicles that recorded gas mileage that was much lower than EPA ratings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Odyssey
Seems they carried this awesome technology over to my V6 coupe.
Yes, I have sold Hondas for the past 14 years. Ever since I escaped the corporate world.
And, yes, I have heard of this problem. In this forum. Never from a customers, never from another salesperson and I have never experienced it myself. At least, not up to this point. Again, I don't doubt some people are experiencing "something". I just don't know what.
Really? I know I'm helping others. I am informing them of my experience and am grateful that others are sharing theirs. I find it extremely helpful.
Comments like, telling people they shouldn't have bought their car, its their imagination, just live with it, is not helpful and I don't understand why they are even posting to this blog as it adds no value or is even pertinent to the discussion.
Honda talks about customer satisfaction. I bought a $30k with problems and am not satisfied. Bottom line is they need to make it right. If they don't, then people need to know. All Honda has to do is fix the isssue with my car and I will never post again. I have never posted to a car blog in my life before this awful purchase.
Comments like, telling people they shouldn't have bought their car, its their imagination, just live with it, is not helpful and I don't understand why they are even posting to this blog as it adds no value or is even pertinent to the discussion.
First, I never said it was someone's imagination. I'm sure you actually feel something. Something that you undoubtedly would have felt on a long test drive, had you taken one. You did take a long test drive, didn't you? And you did do your homework before buying by visiting this site and others where Honda Accords and their problems are discussed, didn't you? If not, why not?
Second, If Honda persists in telling you & the others that what you feel is normal, why do YOU persist in complaining about it on this forum? I doubt anyone on this forum is going to fix it for you. IMHO, persistent whining surely adds nothing to this thread.
Now, were you to come up with a fix--either through Honda, or by some others means, I'm sure there are a few folks who would like to know. After all, there aren't more than a handful of people complaining here about their VCM, while the vast majority of buyers MUST be happy or at least content with their VCM's operation or 1) this thread would be FULL of complaints, and 2) Honda would likely do something --- or maybe not...
Go back and read my posts. I have reported the problem and documented each step I have taken to try and resolve it. I have a meeting with the Honda Corp Service rep on Thurs. I will post the result. If they don't make it right I will escalate further and post in the hopes of helping others with the same problem.
This is a blog to discuss VCM problems. That is why I am here. Why are you here? Just bored and like attacking people and calling them "whiners"?
Then YOU proceeded to attack me!! YES, you did! You took something I posted totally out of context and then proceeded to slam me for not somehow getting upset over your complaints. Sheesh! After that, I did defend myself.
Plus, what I clearly said was that we can't help you. It's true, we can't. What would you like us to do? Perhaps YOUR posts are helping others. But I can't DO anything for you, or even in your behalf.
I do have some ideas for resolving your issue and was going to post them, but as long as you're going to persist in attacking ME, never mind.
Now, go back & look at the title of this thread. It isn't named "VCM problems", it's simply named "VCM". The name didn't change because you chose it as your personal soapbox to complain about your Accord.
Whiner? Uh, yeah, if the shoe fits, you better wear it!
BTW- good luck with your meeting with the Honda Service Rep. Don't be defensive, and don't whine. Try to be pro-active and work WITH him/her toward a solution. If you attack, they will stonewall you until you give up & go away.
The year was 1981 and Cadillac was frantically trying to get their massive cars to meet the CAFE standards that were in place. They had cracked down on emissions too and Cadillac was struggling.
So, they came out with an ill fated one year only (1981) engine that had VCM!
Anyone remember? They called it the 4-6-8 engine and the advertised it to death. On the dash was a digital readout that told the driver what mode it was operating in.
I asked the Service Manager what his opinion was and I still remember the answer.
He said there are three kinds of people.
1. The people who don't notice anything.
2. The people who feel the transistion but aren't bothered by it.
3. People who find the transistion intrusive and hate it.
The system was quite primitive at the time and was plagued by problems. the engines were rugged but the 4-6-8 systems were very troublesome.
The final "cure" for most people was to snip a wire which caused the car to operate in 8 cyl mode all of the time.
Those were tough times for the auto industry as they scrambled to build cars that met the rules.
The next year (1982) was the beginning of the infamous HT 4100 engines that were terribile and the beginning of a mass departure from Cadillac by what had been a loyal following. These engines were junk and by the time they got things fixed, it was too late for many people.
Just some history and a sidebar...
The mood lighting is also found on many up level cars too>> along with the Electro Luminescent gauges. Honda took these things away because it was cheaper to do so and they wanted you go to the Acura to get what the 2007 Accords had .Tthe Honda radio on the V6 cars is doing its noise masking thing even if you have the audio off.
A 6 or 7speed automatic would help Honda get the economy they need without the VCM feature. Our neighbors Camry V6 6 speed auto is getting the same mileage as the VCM V6 Accord with literally close the same HP on regular gas. I feel Honda has gone from "outstanding" to "very good" which may be good enough for most buyers. The sales figures will ultimately tell the true story.
To repeat the earlier poster's advise...Just make sure you test drive the new v6 Accord at all normal speeds and go at least 5 to 10 miles at a sustained highway cruise. Then drive another brands v6 back to back to be sure .