Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
If you've watched some TV newsragazines and read enough about accusations that have been made against the big 'T' and others, this would include such things as hidden warranties (you have to complain to the right people to get the adjusted price), aggressive action towards any publication that picks too hard on their manufacturer provided review cars (pulling ads is the typical leverage, along with un-inviting them from those little junkets you read about in car mags). Burying owner complaints by either stonewalling until the owner gives up, or non-disclosure agreements in the case of lemon buybacks or other legal settlements. Standard Goliath stepping on David kind of things.
Mine, well I am not spending the effort to put my head through the brick wall - the next owner will enjoy their low mileage Honda
Today I expect to pick up my EX-L V6 Navi sedan from the dealership. I am sharing this with you all because I took it in there yesterday with what I thought was surely the cylinder activation/de activation so many of us have been experiencing with these newer Accords w/Auto trans & V6 engines. Last night I was told by the Service Department that they feel all the vibrations are not VCM-related but brakes related. I was unaware that Honda had issued a Service Bulletin for the Front Brakes and the Rear Brakes were actually part of a Class Action Lawsuit. What! I had not heard about this and I consider myself a avid reader of things related to cars, my own Accord or cars in general. So my front brakes will be covered at no cost to me and the rears will be addressed and I need to file a claim for up to 50% reimbursement as part of the lawsuit. This is my 3rd Accord in a row and this all caught me off guard.
I'll update this posting after I drive the car over the weekend. I hope this was in fact the cause of the steering wheel shaking and vibrations through the car. It would be a relief it it wasn't the VCM, something I so wish Honda would have skippied in this generation of Accords. My only hope is that the next Accord, 2013 model year would be my guess, will be really nice when equipped with this engine and a proper 6-speed auto trans. I haven't driven the VCM engine/trans combo in an Odyssey or Pilot but I can't imagine it's that much better than in our Accords.
So hopefully this information is helpful to some of you as I was unaware. Looks like anyone with a 2010 V6, or other models for all I know, have a free set of front brakes coming to them. My car only has 12K miles on it and the vibration has been present for the past 1,000-2,000 easily. I just thought it was the inherent poor design of the engine & VCM. Heck, the car is not even a year old and I never suspected I'd be having significant brake issues on my Accord. This isn't a G37S or anything! Hah.
Philly Mike
I can't say that your vibration issue is related to the front or rear breaks but if your dealer hasn't already addressed these areas for you I would call them on it. I am also having the dealership rotate & balance the rims as well as align the vehicle. When it comes to vibrations or noises I am a freak with my cars. I aim to keep the car in tip top shape and things like this are definitely concerning. Best of Luck and let us know how you make out.
Philly Mike
Honda admits to nothing wrong. I hate these kind of settlements!
Rear Brake Pad Repairs
www.accordsettlement.com for details and the form itself
Browne et al v. American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Case No. CV09-06750-MMM(BTBx) (C.D.Cal.)
On the ride back from the dealership my Accord did feel a lot better than when I dropped it off. I did however have a lot done over the 2 days it was there - tire balance & rotation, alignment, new front pads and resurfacing of front rotors, new rear pads & resurfacing of rotors. So it ought to drive nice, or at least for a few weeks...
Philly Mike
My front brakes were done awhile back, didn't help the shimmy, and only took a few months for the brakes to start acting like the rotors are a little warped again in the front.
Luckily mine has not required rear brakes yet, and the dealer insisted that they had checked both inner and outer pads during the PA Inspection. Still running the original pads from 08 around 22k miles now. That is the beginning of the range where most people have needed rear pad replacement.
Ironically Consumer Reports just named Honda the most reliable automobile manufacturer and Honda sells roughly 400,000 Accord's every year. Good luck with your 1 man smear campaign.
Also, just google "Honda VCM problems" and you will get many blogs and forums complaining about it in the Accord, Pilot and Odysee. So I don't think its a one man smear campaign. Its the truth. Do you think everyone is lying just for the fun of it?
And mine hasn't broken down, or required other repairs. So the vibration is annoying, but not really considered a major problem.
Compare that to some other cars I have owned, like the bmw with a t-stat recall (mine acted up - either too cold or almost too hot), and an electrical gremlin the dealer couldn't find.
Or the chevy truck with a water leak the dealer couldn't seem to fix, and so on.
Still, I would prefer not to buy this car again, but in comparison there are many cars that I wouldn't buy at all. And I find myself tending to compare this one against buying a Avalon, BMW, or Lexus - most of which are more money for a smaller car.
I had a real bad experience with a new Toyota Tacoma pickup in 1995. After multiple trips to the dealer with NO fixes to multiple problems, Toyota simply gave me a new T100 truck rather than admit the Tacoma was a problem-ridden piece of junk. The T100 was much better.
Seriously, I NEVER ONCE heard of this from anyone in our store nor had our Service Dept. I drove at least six V -6 Accords and I tried to replicate this situation but I never felt a thing.
I don't doubt that a few people are feeling "something" but I sure don't know what that may be.
It's just too bad that somone may read these comments and cross a great car off of their list and end up buying something inferior.
I always thought the 4 cyl Accords had more than enough power and that's what I bought for my wife.
All that being said, there really aren't very many different people actually making these complaints. Yes, I have googled VCM and other derivatives several times and have found some, but really not many complaints CONSIDERING the number of vehicles we are talking about.
Perhaps if you lived at a high(er) altitude as we do, you might have a different opinion about 4 cylinder Accords, or 4 cylinder anything for that matter. Altitude changes everything, and 4 cylinders are dogs at altitude. Not completely terrible mind you, but driving at 8000-10,000 ft on the drive to Denver, 4 cylinders have to stay in the slow lane and get along as best they can, which isn't too good.
I'm done with Honda. And I will never recommend Hondas to anyone ever again.
Not to mention shady car salesmen who talk big but never back up what they say. The dealership where I got my car actually suggested that I upgrade to a V6 to get rid of the vibration. But I see from this forum that the V6 appears to have the same issue.
Your car (assuming it is a 4 cylinder) is the first 4 cylinder that I have heard having a vibration problem.
Agree that today's Honda is sure NOT the Honda we have come to love. In fact, the "new" Honda seems to be much more like a typical US "big-3" manufacturer than not. Sad.
This past Spring (April) car began to 'miss' along with the mandatory warning lights, check engine, VSA etc. Car feels like it wants to stall, very rough operation, increased RPM (roughly 10%) and increased fuel consumption (+30%). The first error codes stored were not helpful in finding the fault but eventually (think it was the third visit) they traced the problem and replaced the coil pack on #3 cylinder. That lasted one week. Coil was gone again and with the help of techline they again replaced the coil pack and also replaced the spark plug - again, only #3 cylinder.
Car operated 'normally' until last week when the same condition came back. Today service identified the problem as .... wait for it ..... coil pack and plug replacement needed on cylinder #3. Wow. Eight months.
Does anyone know if VCM shuts down specific cylinders and in a specific order? For giggles I checked another forum today looking for engine related issues. There are some reports of identical situations and they all identified #3 cylinder.
I'll keep you posted and would appreciate your insight.
I'm headed to arbitration tomorrow. I'm sure it will be a joke because its paid for by the dealerships, but we will see.
I've had my car since October. It is the worst highway driving vehicle I have ever owned, and its my third Honda Accord.
The shaking and surging is getting worse and the car only has 5K miles on it. I tried to meet with the dealership and they left me sitting for an hour. So I left. I WILL NEVER OWN ANOTHER HONDA.
I have a friend who has a 2009 Honda Accord V6 with the VCM. He said he never had a problem. I drove his car on the highway and it did the exact same thing. I think some people just don't know that its not normal for your car to shake and surge on the highway.
Whatever, I'm going to try and make them buy mine back. I'll let you know how it goes.
The run-around from the dealer and factory rep has been incredibly bad. There are always going to be a certain percentage of mass produced cars that have problems. The real test of the manufacturer's commitment to the customer and quality, however, is how the company deals with customers when problems occur. On this, Honda fails miserably.
I do not understand why a company would intentionally treat loyal customers so badly.
You have a friend who has a 2009 Accord V-6 who told you he has "never had a problem". So, in other words, his car drives just fine FOR HIM.
Yet, you drove his car and it "did the exact same thing"?
Apparantly what he can't feel and what isn't a problem is something you can feel and something you deem to be a problem!
Something tells me that if I were to drive his car, I wouldn't feel anything either.
Who knows?
I've driven a co-workers company van, and the moment I started to brake from high speed, the thing shook horribly from the warped rotors. I mentioned it to him, and he confirmed the issue, but said he usually doesn't brake hard enough for it to be really annoying, so hadn't put it in for repair yet.
The point is that some of us are much more attuned to what is going on, while others would ignore square wheels, as long as it got from point A to point B.
If the poster is in auto sales, then i would say the likely outcome is he would tell the person test driving that its just tire balance causing the steering wheel shimmy, and they will have the service dept balance the wheels before delivery (heard that one myself, didn't fix the issue, then later I discovered this forum).
But, you are right. What bothers one person won't bother someone else.
But your example of warped rotors is pretty extreme compared to the VCM situation.
I honestly think it would take a VERY sensitive person to detect the operation of the VCM, UNLESS the car in question really did have a problem.
Recently I had my 2010 V6 Sedan in for a low groan-hum-whirring sound from somewhere forward of the driving position. Service attendant said they drove another V6 and that they all sound like that. A younger service tech went for a test drive with me and confirmed the sound, suspecting a wheel bearing which was replaced 3 weeks later with me fuming every time I got behind the wheel.
I don't consider myself overly sensitive or numb, but the 2 VCM V6's I've owned had VCM activity that could be easily felt in both cars with the 2008 more noticeable the 2010. I can feel it, but I just don't find it that objectionable, it really doesn't bother me that much.
I think the vast majority of drivers fall into the middle catagory that you described. That would be me too.
It has to be remembered that forums like this tend to attact the few that may feel something or be bothered by it. then people read this stuff and wonder..."Gee, I wondr if my V-6 Accord has this same problem?"
So they take the Accord out on the road, switch off the radio can ever so carefully feel for the "problem". and, maybe (unlike me), they are able to detect something!
" Oh, my car does this too!"
Back in the "old days" when I mamaged a large Auto Center for Sears, once in awhile (not often) we would get a customer who was overally sensitive about wheel balance. We would dismount the tires, and rebalance them making sure they were perfectly balanced.
Sometimes that worked and other times not. Cadillac people were the worst. I remember once after four attempts to make a Cadillac customer happy, I took the Caddy out on the So. Calif freeway with him riding alongside me.
I got it up to legal freeway speeds and higher and felt nothing.
FEEL THAT??he yelled!
Nope, it was as smooth as glass.
I told him to buy a set of tires elsewhere...ANYWHERE, and bring back his slightly used tires for a full refund which he did.
We resold the tires to another customer with a Cadillac for a great price after telling him the story.
He called me a couple of weeks later after taking a long trip and said they were perfect.
Go figure...
That being said, I truly feel sorry for those people whose Accords drive differently than ours. Unfortunately, you folks don't have many options. Basically live with it, or get rid of the car. Yes, I know you will take a beating financially if you dump your Accord, but life is WAY too short to live with something every day that upsets you.
It's painfully apparent that Honda Corp. is NOT your friend if you don't like VCM. They have determined a corporate position regarding complaints and aren't changing that position.
It's only a car. Please take care of yourselves and don't let it drive you crazy. It's not worth it.
OKAY! I read a lot on edmunds, but do my best not to reply. THIS, however, took me over the edge. When car shopping, my wife and I test drove several V6 hondas with VCM at two different dealerships. Neither salesman had ever experienced any issues with VCM or ever even heard about it. To us, it was blatantly obvious - much like the a/c kicking off and on, but the a/c was not on. My daughter-in-law owns a 2010 6 cyl accord and both she and her husband (my son) are fully aware of the VCM constant on and off, but it doesn't bother them. I've drive several other 6 cyl accords that belong to friends of mine and can say that EVERY one of them experienced the same thing - you could feel the cylinder activation/deactivation. They were fully aware of it and it just doesn't bother them. It doesn't bother my daughter-in-law at all. In fact, having two sets of brakes put on in less than 25k miles doesn't bother her either.
1. VCM activation/deactivation (most noticeable for me during low speeds and stop-and-go expressway traffic; least noticeable for me while cruising on road trips.)
2. Premature rear brake pad wear; problem fixed with replacement part and $150 reimbursement. See http://www.girardgibbs.com/hondabrakes.asp
3. Wind noise;
4. The A/C kicking-on-and-off sensation even when the AC is off and the heater is on;
5. Rear interior panel deck rattles during loud music or very bumpy roadway, depending on the temperature of the day. (hope to correct that soon)
I've basically deduced that the VCM sensation I'm feeling is pretty much the "normal" operations of the system that I can live with until I trade-in the car. Not sure what this "surging" issue that people are talking about. As far as I'm aware, my car does not surge. Would I purchase another Honda with VCM in it? I doubt it. I still like my car, so it's a keeper for me. I probably won't keep it as long as my previous 98 Honda Accord V6, which I kept for 11 years (and 199,000 miles) before getting this current one. Will I get another Honda Accord? Maybe, if they "perfectify" (is that a word?) the VCM or get rid of it altogether.
5. Rear interior panel deck rattles during loud music or very bumpy roadway, depending on the temperature of the day. (hope to correct that soon)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#4: The AC sensation is most likely due to the AC being on. You have to press the AC button and have AC Off light up in the display. If the display says AC on, the AC is on. If the display says nothing then the AC IS ON. There is a glitch in the Auto AC control that allows this to happen. Always push the AC button in these EXL vehicles until the display says AC Off. Otherwise the AC compressor with click on and off.
#5 The rear shelf deck creak can be silenced by spraying Dupont Teflon Mult-Use dry wax lubricant on all the welded seams and bolts from inside the trunk. The spray can be found at Lowe's - * Item #: 213197
* Model #: D00110101
http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=1005- 1&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=lubricants
If your vehicle has a creaking noise from the console area. That can be silenced by removing the plastic trim around the shift lever and stuffing foam padding in the empty space. You may also want to remove one of the plastic side panels flanking the console and stuff that empty space as well.
The creaking glove box can be addressed by loosening the hinge screws, shimming the side with folded paper that is touching to make space. Re-tighten the screws and remove the paper shim.
Another thing I noticed was oil usage during the first 3 months after buying the car. Now, after 34,000 miles and 13 months of ownership, the car doesn't burn much oil at all. I'm attributing the initial oil usage to "new-ness."
Oil consumption was an issue for my vehicle within the first 5,000 miles. After discovering this, a bit of hard acceleration over a few 100 miles "seated" the valves. Hasn't used a drop of oil since.
Last week my dealer replaced the spark plug on number three cylinder for a second time, the coil pack for a third time and in total over the last ten months the vehicle has been to the dealer seven times for the same problem. Now they want me to bring it back in to have plugs checked on one through four, replaced as necessary and computer program update. That's eight visits for the same problem.
Like many, one of the reasons I lease and replace every few years is because I don't have either the time of desire to spend working on a car or dropping it off for repair. I'm willing to pay to have a vehicle that is reliable and ALWAYS takes me from point A to B. Clearly my options no longer involve Honda.
And in case you missed it, I retired last May and I have ZERO reason to make anything up not that I ever have in any of these forums.
Here is what brought me here...
About a year or so ago, I had a customer whose family I had sold several cars to that was interested in a V-6 Accord.
Personally, I have never seen the "need" for a V-6 but that is besides the point.
My customer called me and said they would probably switch to a 4 cylinder because of the VCM "problems" with the V-6's.
I was like..." Huh". My customer said.." It's all over the internet, don't you know?"
He then directed me to this forum.
After reading everything, I asked my fellow salespeople if they had ever felt this problem or if they had ever heard about it. Blank looks.
I then went into our shop and asked the Service Advisors and the Service Manager and a couple of key technicians. More blank looks.
So, I took THREE v-6 Accords out on the freeway on my day off and tried hard to replicate this problem...nothing.
"Blatantly obvious"? In the months that followed, I rode in and drove, literally dozens of V-6 Accords and felt nothing nor did any of my customers mention anything.
So, I don't know...obviously some people are feeling "something"?
I suppose what bothers some people is not noticible to others?
Believe me or not..I have no dog in the fight. Just my stand on this.
No one will get burned buying an Accord..They just won't be excited anymore.
I mean, I suppose Honda could make a ten speed transmission if the wanted to but I don't think it would make it any "better".
I'm just curious, that's all. Heck, my old Chevy Impala had a TWO speed Powerglide and it worked just fine!
The rear seats still fold down on the new Accords.
I'm not sure why they elminated the LED tailights but never once, did I have even one customer seem to care whether they had them or not.
I guess all of this go's to show that what is important to one person is unimportant to another and what one person can feel, another can't.
Case in point...A family member is passing on to her son, the 2003 CRV that I sold her. It's been near flawless and it now has 190,000 miles.
She will be buying another CRV, a 2011. In our discussions, she let me know that she never used her current sunroof so I suggested an SE which is basically an LX with the EX wheels, CD changer etc.
Now the SE's have a fixed varible wiper system which causes the wipers to take a swipe every five seconds but on the EX, it's user variable.
Something I could care less about BUT, she's going to spend the extra money for this ONE feature she feels she can't live without!
Ok, I have to ask...Why would a six speed transmission be important when the current five spped seems so well matched to the engine? "
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The small percentage increase in gas mileage achieved via the complex VCM system could have been achieved by simply upgrading the 5 speed to a new 6 speed transmission.
Hope that answers your question.
BTW- I have seen it written, both here on Edmunds and on other Honda/Accord forums that the general opinion is that the 2007 Accord was the pinnacle year for the Accord. The 8th generation (2008-2011+) has definitiely proven to be a step down--maybe more than one step down. This is something else I agree with, and as Honda keeps de-contenting the Accord, the steps downward continue. Really a shame, IMHO.
I can't ever remember a time EVER, when the fact the V-6 had VCM pushed a customer over the edge to buy a car so yeah, why bother.
Same thing with the LED tailights.
As far as decontenting, yeah, that's a tough call as buyers want all of the extras but " don't raise the price".
So they leave things out. Things that 90% of the people don't care about or in the case of LED tailights, probably 99%.
All car manufactures do this as they juggle to keep their customers happy and their cars affordable.