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Comments
I honestly don't know if rodiron and sunnfunn's issues are related, even though they both claim it's VCM. Obviously, their cars are acting in ways that many of us have not experienced. If Honda has gone so far as to change tires and adjust ride components, they at least must be given credit for trying to deal with the problem and appease the customer. They may not agree that Honda has done nearly enough, but I am not sure if changing tires, replacing engine mounts, replacing a-pipes, etc. would be typical dealer behavior for a car that is relatively new on the marketplace. We haven't see the rest of their stories yet. I'm curious to find out if Honda does anything for those who are extremely upset and angry with VCM. We do have a handful of them on these boards. If you are one, please come back and tell us what happened to your car. Current and prospective owners want to know.
and the question always nags...is this from a disgruntled ex employee or from someone selling a competing brand?
Naturally it could never be as people describe could it. :mad:
I bought a 2008 Civic Si and I really like it. I had a problem with it pulling to the left on the highway all the time. The dealer said it didn't need an alignment, tires were fine etc... But when I switched to winter tires the problem was solved.
Those who always take the dealers side no matter what make the dealers look worse than they already are.
People generally do not complain unless there is a reason. Most people can't be bothered.
To postulate that the complainants are ex employees or competitors is assinely rude and disingenuous at best.
I was looking at getting a second car and this was a model I was considering but I know dealers (any brand) want to avoid fixing problems if they can get away without fixing them.
They spent 10 minutes on my car but had me wait 40minutes as I saw them park it and leave it.
I hope the people with the VCM system manage to get it fixed or what would be even better is that all expenses have to come out of the dealers pocket. THAT would stop the dealers from using these tactics of deny, deny, deny.
As for the guys with the horrible vibrations I think it's something more than just the VCM causing the issue. I think it's horrible that anyone has to be going through that.
It's got to be a lot more than just a few valves shutting off...
I'm only noticing "issues" when the grade in the road changes, but it's not really enough to cause me to be unhappy with the car. I'm sure that if I had gotten the 4cyl that I'd be wishing I had the V6 even with the grade logic and possible VCM problems.
If anything gets really bad or becomes annoying I'll let you guys all know. Right now it's not really an issue for me.
I ended up with a Civic Si but looked at a lot of Accords and to shut off the VSA in the Accord you have to press and hold the button for something like 8 seconds. The demo car I was driving was this way. Just a thought about that. Try pressing and holding the VSA button till it clicks off and the light comes on.
I am SO glad we didn't get an Automatic with VCM!
Does it not seem suspicious to anyone that almost every person with this issue has called Honda of America reported the issues yet they continue to deny there are any reported problems to people documenting it and that the dealers all deny they know. hog wash they know BIG time,, they have slipped with us multiple times on the issue verbally over the phone.
its really disheartening as a 20 year+ Accord owner... never again.
1. Bad tire sensor that needed replaced for the TPMS
2. Engine light that ended up with much time investment and Honda engineers they had to recalibrate a sensor in the manifold that would cause an engine cold and shut down #5 cylinder.
3. Now after the 1000 mile mark I have the vibration that you feel when the VCM kicks in. This is so noticable and annoying I find myself pressing the gas a little just to bump it off... but it comes right back on and the vibration is back. I even tried dropping to D3 but the VCM engages there too.
4. Now I just got off the phone with Honda because the VSA (stability control) won't shut off when I press the button... problem with that is I almost got my butt run over in the snow we had yesterday. As soon as the car detects the wheel spin it cuts the accelerator and doesn't allow it to move very fast. Spinning or not sometimes in snow you need to pump that gas to get up and go...
5. Smaller issue...every time it gets a little cold my drivers side rear door lock mechnism freezes. One day it froze in the unlock position so everytime I pulled away from a stop sign all the doors tried to lock again.
6. I get the lurging that someone else mentioned too but that's not a big deal to me. It just seems that the transmission is shifting and this transmission seems to be a bit more agressive than other automatics... it's like it's always in a sport mode. Can feel it downshift little harder than normal too but like I said... doesn't bother me like the other issue above.
7. There's more too but don't have the "file" infront of me.
I wonder if it's time to collectively unite because I see this postings across the internet on various sites. Maybe we should all sign a petition to get Honda to "somehow" address these issues. I'd even settle for a button to shut off the VCM, screw the milage at this point. I'm ready to sell it.
Feel free to email me if I can answer any questions about anything else I've noticed with mine.
matthew_perry_rn@hotmail.com
The dealers are next door to each other so I set up both test drives back-to-back .
The Avalon Touring was very nice and roomy, but more road noise than I expected. The Touring suspension was stiffer (compared to my 2002 Camry v-6 I drive) and bumpy. To be expected vs. the softer standard suspension, I guess. Good power and acceleration. Many view the Avalon as a "Senior" vehicle, so the Touring trim adds a little zip in appearance/performance.
Went on to the Honda dealer and salesman pulled out a newly prepped v-6, no navigation (made in Ohio) with 20 miles. I tried my best to sense ANY surge in street and highway speeds watching the ECO light all the time. Opened the window to listen for any engine noise while coasting then flooring the accelerator.
I did not use the cruise control, do not use one at all(no drive long enough on the Island). The only thing I noticed was a slight pause going from ECO mode to all cylinders firing. It was something that you have to accept if you understand the function of the technology. My wife, who does not drive aggressively or with a lead foot wouldn't care or notice. To have the v-6 power when needed for passing or entering the on ramp with the gas milage projected was nice. Car was quieter and smoother than the Avalon.
The wife picked the Honda, her color and options. She was sold on the safety tests reports and the flip-down back seat(since we won't have the van). Our car comes in in March. I will keep the group informed after we put on some miles.
I hope (knock on wood) that the car performs like the it was designed and advertised as.
Honda's Piece about VCM
http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-coupe/features.aspx?feature=vcm
"On Accord Coupe V-6 models with automatic transmission, the V-6 engine features the latest generation of Variable Cylinder Management™ (VCM®) technology. This system can activate and deactivate the engine’s cylinders as needed to meet the demands of both acceleration and fuel savings. When maximum torque is required, all six cylinders are firing. During steady cruising speeds , VCM shuts down one bank of cylinders. In this mode, the audio system’s Active Noise Cancellation™ (ANC) function generates out-of-phase sound waves to cancel out any undesirable noise that may be due to the harmonics of 3-cylinder operation. As cruising speed increases the engine moves to a 4-cylinder mode for extra cruising power. To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, engine mounts automatically adjusts their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers."
Engine Vibration... obviously some people here are having issues.
Seamless and unnoticed is inaccurate.
Obviously all our complaints and worries won't be heard unless we do something further...
I also agree about false denials from the dealer about other complaints about the VCM. I was initially told that there were no issues, and then the story changed to mechanical systems will do things that you may feel. Hmmm, that's not what Honda's advertising states.
I'm thinking along the lines of another of the more recent posters, in that I've learned a very important lesson. I just can't enjoy driving the vehicle, and since Honda and their local dealers are in denial, I'm leaning towards getting rid of it soon.
As you said....never again.
As a quick side note: They are going out of the dealerships as quick as they come in. This was the first coupe I was able to test drive. There were only 2 08 V6's on the lot, one blk on blk, with sold sign on it and the red 08 V6 Coupe I drove. There was a paper on the dash when I saw it in the lot that said it was being "swapped" to another dealer today. The salesperson said that they are going out as they come in and that they have no problem getting them and max wait has been 3 weeks but usually in a couple of days. If someone is not having problems please post so we can hear from you.
I have yet to feel the vibration like some of the others have here.
On a 1hr all highway drive I made a couple nights ago, about 35mins in I could really feel the VCM kicking on and off. Now if you're used to feeling your Murano kind of jump, etc, and do the same general feeling then it probably won't bother you...
Make no mistake about it... I LOVE this car. I wish that Honda didn't throw the words "seamless" and "will go unnoticed by drivers."
I usually put this info in the other thread but as you've said since it is also VCM related here we go....
Drove the 08 V6 EXL w/ Navi another 400 miles within the past 24 hours, mostly freeway miles with some stop and go and some local streets. For those of you familiar with nor ca I drove on I-80 and SR 101 and SR 1 from Sacramento to Monterey and back. The total MPG for the entire 400+ miles was 27.4, I got 38 mpg on the trip computer when on long stretches of the freeway. To me that was great gas mileage and I contribute that to the VCM operation. I now have 3000 miles on this car and yet to notice any problems with the VCM. I wish i could tilt the head restrainer, though!
Pat, have you given any thought to dividing the VCM thread into "VCM issues" and "VCM mileage"? Kind of separating the Pro's from the Con's.
Why not have the pros and the cons in one place. I think that would be easier for the readers to asses. Also "issues" thread could also include pros as well and on the same token "gas mileage" may have its own concerns (cons) too!
Rodiron says his glasses do a Linda Blair and fly off his head. That is also a very strong description that goes beyond just an annoyance or sensation. Yet in other posts he simply decries Honda's inaccurate description about VCM being seamless or imperceptible within their advertising.
Could some of these terms about unintended "surging," heads being rattled, and glasses flying off be unreasonably strong descriptors that ultimately detract from a meaningful discussion about VCM? Or are we discussing and debating a range of annoyances and sensations only? Thanks for your clarification.
Now, my V6 vibrates alot, not sort of, not at times, but all the time at highway speeds and A-LOT. The dealer road force balanced my tires like 4 times, changed out 6 of them and no fix. they have said its the VCM that is causing the vibration in 3cl mode and its not going away, Honda of America has said the same thing to us... in fact they (as i have said before) went so far as to say they "are aware of the problems (not concerns) but problems with the VCM and they are looking into it, however there is no fix" so they admit to the problem (at least to us). I believe others all have been told the same. The vibration has been and is being experience by many other owners and its ridiculous.. its noting like a Honda accord has ever been.
As far as "surging, lurching" etc... the car constantly hunts for a mode.. it never remains stable,, others call it "maddening, annoying" I could not agree more. It is a sensation not an acceleration.. but the sensation is horrible and never calms down both in 40mpg ranges and 65-80mph. It can flat out make one nauseous on a long drive.
I am exploring my exit strategy for this car now...I have given it its day and in the end my opinion is a strong one but after 20 years of Accord ownership, this is my last one.. Honda in an attempt to abandon their failing Hybrid model , compete with others and put a check in the ' green" category really missed the boat here. They took what was a smooth running, no brainer car choice and took a wrong turn or at a minimum didn't fully bake this design. Their marketing and advertising is misleading and down right false. Prospective owners need to be cautious and do their due diligence. The car is not enjoyable to drive on long trips, seats are hard as a rock, coupled with the vibration and surging and one is left with a very dissapointing purchase....
Get the non VCM coupe, MT, 4cly or the TL ...you will thank me later.....
1) I was surprised at how often the "ECO" light came on while on the highway. I'd consider this a positive.
2) I did notice a slight/subtle vibration when the vehicle would shift into "ECO," but not every time. Some times it would, others it wouldn't.
Of course, these observations were made with the radio off, my eyes focused on the "ECO" light and my ears perked for any slight sound.
In my opinion, under normal driving conditions, it wouldn't seem to be an issue, unless you can't shake it from your head, in which case I'd recommend hypnosis.
Anyone know if this is the right place to ask the question of the Edmund's testers?
I wonder if they have noticed any issues with VCM, transmission problems or otherwise? There is a small group on one of the Accord forums that seems to believe that VCM is causing a surging type issue in their cars while others love it and think it gives them great mileage and that the ones having the problem are perhaps too keen in looking for a problem because it is in their heads. Only interested in the opinions of the long time testers at Edmunds but as I indicated above, if there's a better way to reach them, I am all ears. Thanks.
"home4sale2: Regarding you post about the VCM's handling of the transmission. We certainly haven't notice this problem yet. I'd say the transmission is exceptionally smooth and provides good fuel economy for a strong V6. Perhaps it's a condition that develops in higher mileage cars. We'll look for it and post about it if it occurs. "
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=738154
It is apparent to me that the VCM activation/deactivation is obvious to the driver. I do not think it is detrimental to the overall performance of the car and it will not deter me from considering the Accord V6 Coupe with an automatic.
HONDA should have had a switch available on the auto Coupe, like a Sport/Economy switch that would disable VCM when in sport mode. Anyone that concerned about economy would shop for a 4 cylinder Sedan or hybrid anyway. Marketing missed the boat a bit on this one when you consider the target audience of a V6 Coupe.
I have no dog in this race, but it seems pretty clear from the postings here that the VCM is not operating equally for all owners. This car would not be the first first-year-redesign to experience such a phenomenon.
I think we need to keep in mind that all 08 V6 automatic Accords are not necessarily created equally. :shades:
I have bought two Hondas in my past life that were first year models and they were absolutely the best (ok reliable is a better word here) cars I have ever owned while four other first year models I bought have been absolutely horrible in their first couple years of ownership because of gremlins that needed to be sorted out, some never did. This VCM seems like a gremlin for some people so I "nth" the motion to test-drive to your heart's content before you purchase. I know I thank the guys who have brought this to my attention. On the other hand, based on the comments made by others who love this car, it would not deter me to buy it.
I know how VCM works in concept but not in very technical terms. I did not think VCM would be a good match with a manual tranny since the driver has the control not the computer (or maybe shared control?), Do you know how the MT would interact with VCM? I would be interested to know.
Also, I am not sure if I'm reading your post right but I think my post was within the context of this thread and if you think otherwise, then, that is not my intent. Keep in mind that this is after all about the VCM operation, good or bad.
If you check some of the postings, quite a few of them are mere opinions about Honda and have nothing to do with VCM. Here is an example: " am exploring my exit strategy for this car now...I have given it its day and in the end my opinion is a strong one but after 20 years of Accord ownership, this is my last one.. Honda in an attempt to abandon their failing Hybrid model , compete with others and put a check in the ' green" category really missed the boat here. They took what was a smooth running, no brainer car choice and took a wrong turn or at a minimum didn't fully bake this design. Their marketing and advertising is misleading and down right false. Prospective owners need to be cautious and do their due diligence. This has nothing to do with VCM at all.
Regarding Honda's next move I think they could easily add the VSA-type on/off switch, put a marketing spin on it like "it allows the driver to decide between economical driving and V6 fun" and most would be happy with that.
From my own point of view, and given my usual nominal weekly mileage (10km a day back and forth to the train station), I don't see this being of much benefit to me either way, but the option to go all V6 all the time in an automatic would be great.
Alan
[If you check some of the postings, quite a few of them are mere opinions about Honda and have nothing to do with VCM. Here is an example: " am exploring my exit strategy for this car now...I have given it its day and in the end my opinion is a strong one but after 20 years of Accord ownership, this is my last one.. Honda in an attempt to abandon their failing Hybrid model , compete with others and put a check in the ' green" category really missed the boat here. They took what was a smooth running, no brainer car choice and took a wrong turn or at a minimum didn't fully bake this design. Their marketing and advertising is misleading and down right false. Prospective owners need to be cautious and do their due diligence. This has nothing to do with VCM at all.]
If they were being honest, here's the way the description of the button would read:
"The VCM switch allows the driver to choose between better fuel economy while quite possibly experiencing excessive vibrating and surging, depending on your car, or reduced fuel economy while experiencing Honda's trademark silky smooth engine."