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Saturn VUE

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Comments

  • gehegehe Member Posts: 78
    -Thanks for the seat cover feedback. That sounds about right.
    -We are in the "same boat" on most VUE issues.
    -Your #1954 message ... what report ?
    Later
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    As it was posted
    "Just found this very comprehensive owner review on the Saturn site" by simonov. While it is an overall good review, this is not the corporate Saturn website. The website in which this was taken (Saturnfans.com) is not connected with Saturn Corp.
  • simonovsimonov Member Posts: 25
    GEHE,
    If you click on the link I put in post #1954 it will take you to the saturn fans site which has the interesting owners review that I mentioned.
  • socal007socal007 Member Posts: 23
    Anyone know where the Honda V-6's will be applied.
    Published reports indicated Saturn has contracted with Honda for the purchase of their V-6 engines for next year.
    Any chance that these may show up in the Vue ??
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    The Honda V6 was said to arrive in an "extended", Larger version of the VUE. Last I heard however, the plans for an extended VUE were scraped, thus the V6 from Honda does'nt seem like it will arrive anytime soon.
  • johnsandiegojohnsandiego Member Posts: 16
    Does anyone know of any Saturn dealer who sells accessories at any kind of a discount?

    There is a website SaturnAccessories.com but I don't think they are selling at any discount.

    Thanks!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Honda V6 will replace the current 3.0L as the only engine option for 2004.
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    If that is so, why the wait dindak? Why then isn't the engine available for 2003? Also, what is GM's reasoning behind putting this engine in the VUE? Isn't the 182 horse GM V6 good enough, that has been proved by it's use in the L for 4 model years now. Just wondered..
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Saturn's Vue brightens as sales soar in October


    Steve, Host

  • simonovsimonov Member Posts: 25
    "Saturn's Vue brightens as sales soar in October"

    Wow! those are incredible #'s. Why the big jump,was it the 0%financing or did everybody hear about GEHE's "Vivienne" in blue and rush down to their Saturn dealer and order one????
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thank you, lol. I need to put the attribution in bold in my links I guess - someone razzed me for "my" article about a 4Runner link earlier today. I dont write them!

    Note that the above article was from the Tennessean, home to the factory, and apply the usual grains of salt ;-)

    Steve, Host
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    saturnfreak : The engine supply deal had a fixed start date for the 2004 model year. Companies don't just start supplying engines at the drop of a hat, it takes time to plan these things with suppliers ect. GM is supplying auto transmissions to Honda in exchange for these 3.5L V6 motors. Go up about 50 odd posts and you will see some more discussion on this subject. As for the reasoning, I believe the engine was originally planned for other projects which have been shelved so it's going into the VUE. It meets the gov. ultra low emissions standards which will help GM bring down it's emission averages. Perhaps there are other reasons, I'm not sure.

    steve : No 0% up here so sales must be ok. They JUST introduced 3.9% for 36 months, whoopee!! Glad to see sales are going well in the US. Some people are probably catching on to this vehicle, it's still not well known.
  • gehegehe Member Posts: 78
    (simonov)
    -Yup. ! LOL ! I am 'sure' it was the blue that encouraged sales (!) But, I am glad my sale was part of their great October. It has to be zero, zero.
    re:-First trip 'home' ...
    -I took Viv in for her first oil change @ 1500. I usually like to do that @ the first 1000 to flush metal fragments etc, but I have been flying around on business so this Saturday was my first chance.
    -The first service was free so that was a nice surprise. And the service reception is superlative . What can you say. I love driving up to the gates that open automatically and driving right into the bay. Most places hate customers even parking in front of the service doors. Picked up my cargo mat ; the last of my accessories.
    -Saw a Green/Tan. Their first. I liked it alot. Not the tan so much, of course, but it's a great outdoorsy green.
    -Still no other blues. I'm enjoying my " 15 minutes ".
    re:-Pretty Woman ...
    -Sat and watched the movie Pretty Woman for about the 11 th time just to hear them say "Viv Babe" and "Miss Vivienne" !!
    -Wanted to catch the credits to see how they spelt Vivienne, but good ol' TNT split the screen and promoted the next show. My eyes aren't that good any more.
    re:-"New Saturn" ...
    -I had a couple nights stay in NYC last week on business and arrived late after a tough drive in from Philly. (Love that AWD !!) I had Viv parked out on Park Ave with her blinkers flashing waiting for the Hotel Valet to get around to her when my client from Dallas arrived back from dinner.
    -She wanted to go check out this overly mentioned VUE so we met in the lobby. She rushed out and even opened the passenger door to check it out inside. The Valet got nervous and came over to see what this crazy women was doing.
    -She quickly explained that it was her friends new car at which the valet said excitedly ... 'Yes. It's that new Saturn". It felt so NEAT ! (with BIG letters !!!)
    Later ...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    MovieForum.com spells it "Vivian."


    Steve, Host

  • sambojohosambojoho Member Posts: 14
    The Vue doesn't look good from here...


    http://www.thecarplace.com/agvue.htm

  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Nice to see Saturn sales up. I think that review is rotten. Which switches are in odd places? I like how he drives a loaded up version (adding things like a $700 On Star system) and then pans it for being expensive. The guy obviously had it in for the Vue from the start. Lets try and break things kind of attitude.

    We took an Ion-2 for a test drive a couple of weeks ago as we need to replace our small car (currently a 95 Civic). We were quite impressed with the car and we like the Saturn sales and service folks a lot. My wife prefers the Corolla but who knows. Perhaps there will be some incentives around Christmas. We aren't in a big rush.

    Still enjoying our Vue. We are doing some work on the house so it come in handy bringing stuff home from the Home Depot!!
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    First the V6 issue: GM had a prior agreement to buy V6 motors from Honda. GM has decided to offer the Honda motor in the VUE in 2004 models. The Motor will be used in a special edition high-end VUE model only and will NOT replace the current motor offerings. The 4 and current 6 will still be available.

    As for the press, the VUE has not received ANY glowing reviews as far as I know and I understand why. It does nothing better than any other mini SUV out there... with the exception of the plastic panels perhaps. No HP advantage, ride advantage, quality advantage.... nothing. The Other small Utes have rear glass that lifts independent of the full hatch. The VUE doesn't. The interior of the VUE is constructed of the cheapest plastic materials and carpeting this side of Fisher Price (and I'm really considering one of these so I'm not trying to beat it up... just being honeest... I mean, with 0% for 60 months, I WANT to buy one of these). The VUE just doesn't stand out in any one area. The Tribute/escape have locking 4wd and a high HP v6.... The SantaFe has a zillion features that the Saturn doesn't even offer. I went out and finally drove one and it was "ok".... nothing to write home about.

    Now as far as I'm concerned, the only real advantage to the VUE is the price. Meaning, if you purchase a 5-speed Front Wheel Drive 4-cyl with minimal options, you can get a hell of a deal for under $17,000. HOWEVER... I would NEVER buy a loaded VUE for $25,000+ as the competition is just too great. I'm considering the model I mentioned above with perhaps ABS, CD, Power stuff and moonroof and hope to pay around $20,000.
  • maynardf1maynardf1 Member Posts: 127
    That site usually has terrific reviews, although the best ones are by the main guy, Robert Bowden. This one was not.
    Still I can't say the guy was completely wrong or had it in for Saturn from the get-go. I own a vue, so don't get me wrong, but he has some valid points, especially if you load up the vehicle with options.
    The plastic is cheap; the dimmer switch is in a dumb place; the window switches are too far apart from one another; he didn't mention the steering but it's not that great either.
    On the other hand, I think the outside door handles are among the best I've ever used, so I don't understand that complaint. I like lots of other things about it too, but I don't expect reviewers to love it and I don't worry when they don't.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    As far as I know, the 3.0L is gone for 04. The Honda 3.5L will be the only V6 option. I have seen nothing written about a "special high end edition".

    FYI, Motor Week on PBS / SPEED Channel named VUE the best small SUV. I'd say that's pretty glowing. Car and Driver also gave it very good marks in their comparison of the V6 VUE / CR-V / and I believe Escape. Local paper and a Canadian magazine I sub to also gave it excellent reviews.

    VUE is not perfect and a loaded V6 gets too pricey for me, but I think the base 6 and 4 cyl models offer excellent value.
  • markopolomarkopolo Member Posts: 27
    Has anyone heard the roof warps when a rack is attached. I called the parts department to order a rack. At this time the parts person told me not to put the rack on. He told me it would warp the roof, depending on the attachments. I called the service department and asked them about the roof warping. They almost sounded like this is true. Has anyone else heard of this problem. I already purchased my Thule 725 ski rack. I would like to attach it without roof problems.
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    I drove another 4cyl VTi 2003 VUE today during lunch. I'm having a hard time accepting the interior. However, there is another downside to this vehicle and I'm a little disappointed over it. The Steering. I appreciate the advantages electric steering brings.... HOWEVER... it is impossible to feel the road with this vehicle. Also, it drifts just like the one I drove this weekend. You have to make constant adjustments to the steering. To compare, I drove a new ION which also has the electric steering and it is MUCH better... but still a little vague. Some other issues: The rear floor panel that hides the spare is held down with velcro. Also, they should just not offer the current center console. The lid is made of the cheapest flexing plastic and the spring is from a toy: the little bent piece of wire that is flexed when the lit is shut. I'm very upset over this as the 60month 0% offer is temping. However, I'm not sure I'll be happy with the VUE for more than a few weeks TOPS as I'm a stickler for quality and HATE rattles and noises. Really upset about it. You know, if they could only drop a new DASH in the vehicle, I could deal with the rest. But the Hyundai SantaFe has it all over this vehicle (interior). I'll give it another last look 2nite but it doesn't look promising.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I didn't drive the VUE long, but I didn't even notice the steering being electric. I took it out on the freeway and it was fine.

    As for rattles, it is not one of the complaints I have seen listed here. I doubt it will be a problem.

    Hyundia would have a winner with the Santa Fe if it wasn't so butt ugly.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    I have had zero rattles after about 6 months. The Vue is solid. We have driven the thing 600 miles in a day and not experienced the wandering you describe. I think you are trying to feel it. I never think about it and I have no trouble driving our Vue for hours at a time. The seats are comfortable and the drive is smooth. Seat material is a little cheapish, but I can live with it so long as it doesn't wear out.

    Sorry man, we love it. I agree there are some cheap bits here and there, but over all we would buy again in a heartbeat if we had to do it again.
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    IS there any Saturn you do like? or any Saturn you would actually buy despite the rants of a poor plastic interior In Your Opinion?

    Clearly, the items you dislike in Saturn vechicles will not be changed by some magical Saturn king who happens to read this board and realizes, hey, this guy is right. Lets dump thousands into redoing this to make a handful of people more satisfied. I think NOT.

    With Saturn selling in excess of 200,000 cars this car, I don't think the VUE will get a major makeover till at least 2006, excluding the use of the HONDA V6 in 2004.
  • zapcatzapcat Member Posts: 64
    I think that alloy wheels should be included in the FWD V6 base price.
    the delta between the 4 cyl and the FWD v6 give saturn a lot of profit. Also, I just cannot believe after you spend 22K on a vue You are still expected to shell out $300 for a tiny tow hitch. I can see not including it in the base 4 cyl but come on, isn't this an SUV?Saturn should consider throwing in either side airbags or anti-lock brakes with the alloys/hitch then I would agree it is a good value.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I'll bet if you ask, you can probably get a hitch thrown in for free. Price is not negotiable but I know people that have had upgrades given to them. Our assistant negotiated a stereo upgrade for her SL1.
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    First of all... there ARE Saturns I would buy.... I love the ION. I might actually order one this week as it is put together quite well. I really like it! The L-series is getting a little long in the tooth in terms of interior design (despite the update) but is a GREAT handling car and I think I would choose the wagon version over the VUE if it weren't for the lack of a sunroof option (an absolute must for me!!!).

    I'm not the only one here who finds the interior an issue when it comes down to laying out cash for the VUE... go to Saturnfans.com where even OWNERS are commenting about it. MANY there (and it's a pro Saturn site) have reported a zillion rattles, clunks, squeaks, etc. In fact, a number of Saturn Sales staff the post regularly on the site have indicated there may be a major overhaul of the interior in 2004 due to owner feedback.

    As for features, I drove in a friend's Grandparent's new Subaru Forester this weekend and I was really shocked at the features that came standard.... little things.... like rear adjustable shoulder seatbelts and seat backrests. Things like standard outside temp readout... and a number of little things that really make you feel like you're getting a lot for your money... and they paid what I would pay for an AWD 4-cy VUE (only with 20+ more horsepower). Also, the vehicle.. interior and all... are built like a TANK. I also think the Saturn is more of a looker than the SantaFe but I mentioned it only to compare the interiors and standard features for the money.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Subies are nice cars. My friend had one and it was fairly unreliable, but it was also 8 years old so I'm sure they are much better now. I definitely hear good things and they are sharp.

    The new L-series wagons are nice, but not cheap. I guess if you can get 0-2% for 60 months, probably a decent deal. I prefer the look of the VUE so if there is an overhaul for 04, I will look again then.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    A zillion?????????????

    Wow. That is crazy.

    Perhaps some of them have rattles but I know some people who have them also carry around a lot of junk in the trunk and the rattles they think they have are self inflicted. Only rattles so far are my CD boxes in the glove box.
  • lok888lok888 Member Posts: 1,788
    Never paid attention to this Saturn VUE until I am looking for an affordable SUV. This VUE with AWD V6 engine has most similar features with the Kia Sorento EX with 4WD. And the add-on options are pretty much cost the same on both SUVs. But I heard the people are just paying the MSRP for their Saturns. Isn't it true? Furthermore, it looks like the Sorento has better craftsmanship inside out. The VUE looks cheap inside with the thin door panel and some cheap looking materials on dash and door panel. The power window switches are not located at the door panels. Overall, I prefer Sorento.
  • saturnfreak01saturnfreak01 Member Posts: 134
    Yes, with all Saturns you pay full price. There is no dickering. I don't know if KIA is offering any special financing rates, but Saturn is offering 0% apr on the VUE for 5 years.

    Personally after seeing the Sorrento at an autoshow, and looking over the interior materials, I believe it is worse than the VUE. The black plastic KIA emblem on the steering wheel nearly made me lose my lunch.

    Anyhoo, things to consider. The VUE would no doubt save you on insurance, it wouldn't ding, nor rust. As far as "America's supposed best warranty" goes. With the KIA, your're going to need it.
  • chayeschayes Member Posts: 6
    Consumer Reports actually recommended the vehicle; however, the write-up was 95% negative. I know there was a lot of previous discussion on biases, blah blah, but CR spells out exactly how they come to a recommendation or not. If I compare the Forester's interior to the Vue, the Forester beats it hands down. Looks, the Vue wins; I was definitely considering the Vue for some time, but the short uncomfortable seats and the toy-plastic interior turned me away (along with the rear bench which is awfully low to the ground like one of those beach chairs). I would think that Saturn is trying to expand its customers beyond the existing loyal base, but I think they fell short with the execution here. I'm crossing my fingers for answers to some of the common complaints here and elsewhere but that wouldn't happen until a few years down the road. Oh well, I'll stay on the sidelines until then...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The Sorento 3.5L drink a lot of gas and isn't as powerful as the numbers indicate. Given the reliability of the Sportage, I would stay away for at least a couple of years and see how things shake out. Korean cars have very poor reliability records though I realize they are getting better.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Now, that's a good-looking vehicle"


    Steve, Host

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Sounds like cabin noise is the main complaint here. I didn't notice it, but I usually have the stereo running also. For an SUV I thought it was pretty good and smooth.
  • zapcatzapcat Member Posts: 64
    I have read that in addition to the honda V-6, a revised interior is in the works. Let's hope the power windows switch cluster returns to a more traditional layout and passenger assist grips are added.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    I like the power window buttons where they are, no change needed there for me.

    It will be interesting to see what Saturn comes up with in 04.

    Going away in our Vue this weekend and carrying some stuff back from my in-laws house. Nice to have the space though I'm not sure I want the "stuff".
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    If they do the following, the things will sell better:

    1. Rear glass that opens separately from the hatch.

    2. Passenger assist handles.

    3. Conventional dash switchgear placement (window/mirror control on the door.

    4. A standard quality cargo cover because there is NO under floor storage as the spare is Inside the vehicle. The L-wagon has an inside spare AND under floor cargo storage. In fact, I would rath give-up the folding cargo-organizer for under cargo storage.

    5.Rear disc brakes... if for no other reason then to improve the e-brake feel... it ratchets and comes almost vertical before holding the car on a hill.

    6. Redesigned center console as the one now is cheap and not very usefull.

    7. A bit more sound insulation.

    8. Standard side airbags/curtain as vehicles like the Sorento and 2004 Santa-fe will have them standard.

    However.... with the current 0% financing, 0 down and 0 payments for 90 days, I can do without all of these things and bite the bullet. :)
  • ethanosethanos Member Posts: 2
    I've been lurking for a while and reading these boards... my Wife and I would really like a Vue... The only issue I'm seeing is having Room for the whole family... We have two young boys 5&8 and have another one on the way... I was wondering if those that already have the Vue see any issues with running out of room for the larger family... 5 people + Stuff... Any comments would be appreciated...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The are now recommending the Saturn VUE.

    Has to be good news regardless as a lot of people read the magazine.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    That is good news. I like Consumer Reports and I know people who read it every time they buy a car. Having a "recommend" rating should boost sales nicely.

    Ethanos : We find the Vue has lots of room for everything, much better than most small SUVs. With 2 big kids, things might be different though. I guess it depends on what they and you do as a family. I would think for most it would be just fine though.
  • gehegehe Member Posts: 78
    (ethanos)
    -I am alone, but every time I pass a CRV or RAV 4, I count my blessings that I went with the VUE. They just look small. I even noticed a PT Cruiser with it's trunk open as I was waiting in line for the auto car wash, and it looked small.
    -I thought that I was just talking myself into the VUE when considering the space, but I have done nothing since, but load up that baby. Nice not to have to use the back seats.
    -The space between driver and door is also roomie.
    -Go with V6 if you can afford it. The power will be great when all the family is on board. (I need this when my Mum & Dad come visit from the UK with all their "Titanic" trunks ! The ballast is always useful for cruising).

    re:-Wish list ...
    -I have very few revisions that I would make on the VUE.
    -I really don't like the horn. With the air bag, it is impossible to blow. A side horn button would be great. Of course, it's sure peaceful without me laying on it all the time !!!
    -The power buttons "European Centre" mount is just fine. (I finally got out of the habit of hunting for the window winder with my left hand !!)
    -I would love to have a place for a box of Kleenex. I used the passenger grab handle on the Tracker. Worked great. Now I leave it on the back floor where it is still easy to reach.

    re:- Big WHOOPS ...
    -I started to make a signalled move into the right lane on the highway and nearly collided with one of those black 'stealth' Chrysler Concordes that had come up from no where, fast, and was making an impatient zip around the traffic. I swear blind that I had just checked my center mirror , but didn't wait long enough after a quick glance in the side mirror before starting my move. I quickly corrected myself and was relieved at how well the VUE handled the sudden movement back and forth.
    -(She) is also great ... I have noticed ... when scooting around those sharp, curved exit ramps, especially in the wet. Sterling Moss has got nothing on me and "Viv"!!! So great to let fly when entering the traffic.
    -How quickly one forgets that I was once one of those folks battling along in an 'econo' car letting time and patience deal with entering heavy traffic !
    Later ...
  • enniskillenenniskillen Member Posts: 87
    Hi Ethanos

    I will get myself in trouble again, but we have two girls aged 5 and 7. So space was important to us as well. We want to be able to carry all their paraphenilia, shop at Cost Co and separate the girls if necessary.
    You aren't going to get 2 kids and 1 car seat in the back seat of Vue very comfortably. The space behind that back seat is going to accomadate a stroller and diaper bag, if you are lucky, and that's it. No groceries, no luggage, no room for anything else, unless you strap it on the roof.
    Now the question of the optional side curtain air bags, since you are a Dad, I bet you will feel they are required equipment.
    Gas mileage was also an issue for us. What we did was compare the cost of a Vue, with a v6, air bags, roof rack, to the larger Buick Rendezvous. The Buick came standard with all of this stuff, gave us the option of a 3rd row of seats, rear head phone jacks to keep the girls happy listening to Brittany Spears, and much much more. The Rendezvous cost little more than a Vue similarly equipped, and there is only about 2 miles per gallon difference between the 2 vehicles on the highway.
    Space was important to us, as was safety ( 4 wheel disc brakes standard)and price, and quality of inside materials, seating comfort.
    We chose the Buick, but still admire the 4 cyl, 5 spd, Vue as a great priced, vehicle, but we didn't think much of it as a v6 auto, expensive
    alternative
  • zapcatzapcat Member Posts: 64
    Sounds like you could have saved some money an purchased a Toyota Sienna. I agree with you on all points. Time will tell if the Buick RDV is just another GM 'car' that will start to fall apart in 4-5 years I am sure that the drivetrain is bullet-proof, it is all the other stuff, alternator, starter, power windows and so on that I worry about. I think the VUE will hold up better than the RDV.
  • theduketheduke Member Posts: 50
    Hi Ethanos,
    just like Enniskillen, I was hesitating between the Vue and the RDV. For many months actualy.
    Although I though the Vue looked sharper, and I already own a Saturn, the logic won: the RDV is of better value (even if it is somewhat more expensive this year).

    But do not take our word for it, just keep it in mind(especially if these items are important for you: comfort, room, finition, up to 7 seating, independant radio in the back, towing capacity, internal storage capacity, lockable storage, 4 disc-brakes, ABS, traction control, lombar support driver and pax, electric air pump, negociable price).

    Good luck shoping, there are a lot of choices out-there.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Actually the new 2WD V6 is much cheaper than the AWD and more comparable to your Rendezvous. Given ABS is now optional on the base Rendezvous, the price advantage it had is not there anymore.
  • enniskillenenniskillen Member Posts: 87
    I will bow to your expertise, I am only familiar with the pricing and packages on the 2002 models.

    But I suspect their may be a few 2002's on the lot still.

    And I still think 2 children and an infant in a car seat in a vue, would be uncomforable for most day to day tasks.

    Jeff
  • melliejmelliej Member Posts: 1
    We just picked up our Vue. We have the 4Cl FWD Manual, and love it so far. But, (there it is you knew it was coming) We discovered that when shifting in the low gears when you push in the clutch out it makes a strange sound, like the engine has reved (but it hasn't) kindof a buzzing winding down noise. If the Air Conditioner is on it does not seem to do it. We are also getting a slight rattle somewhere on the drivers side dash. It has to go back to have the racks installed so we are going to have them look at it. But figured I'd ask you guys. Thanks.
  • simonovsimonov Member Posts: 25
    Now that the weather is colder and the windows rolled up I've noticed a strange noise. I have the 2002 v6 awd. After the vehicle frst warms up and then I stop for a red light I notice a "twanging, dull clicking, pinging" sort of noise from the right side of the vehicle possibly under the dash or under the right side. It only does it about four times and then stops, not eal loud but noticeable. If I drive for a while and stop again it doesn't necessarily make the noise. It always does it first thing starting out on the first stop. I've only got 5000 miles and I'm not due for another oil change yet or else I would bring it into Saturn. Any ideas????? I'm really enjoying the vehicle otherwise, it's great.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    The RDV still looks to old regardless. The Vue is much more sporty looking not to mention we get wonderful Saturn service. Enjoy your vehicle but you might want to think about ceasing the Vue bashing.

    RE : Noises. We have not had any yet but it's always best to bring it in as it could be anything.
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