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Subaru Reliability

2

Comments

  • aathertonaatherton Member Posts: 617
    It depends on what you mean by your question. If a Forester and Toyota are maintained, then the Forester has the same mileage potential.

    But compared to a Toyota, Foresters have a more complex motor and drive train. Double the heads and cams, interference valves that will ruin the motor if the timing belt is not changed on schedule, and a more complex drive drain with more differentials and clutches. And your era Forester also had head gasket problems.

    So to maintain a Forester well is going to take more and cost more than maintaining a Toyota well. The question is whether that level of maintenance was done for the 216k one owner Forester. Likely it was, or it would not have made it that far. But are you willing to pick up the continuing responsibility at this late point in its life?
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    If you read CU you will see their repair listings for most Subarus are good for about the first 5 years, after which engine and driveline problems show up. Most Toyotas do better than that.
    However, in the newer ('03 and on) Subarus, the issues putting them on CU's charts (bad head gaskets, timing belts, wheel bearings, etc.) have supposedly been fixed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those original head gaskets have lasted 216k miles already, so any failure now would be overdue.
  • dontbuyxtdontbuyxt Member Posts: 2
    You are right. The reliability is terrible. My experience is based on 2009 xt 4ats that had the engine completely seize. Sounded like silverware in a disposal for a few minutes.
    Dealer called me to tell me I need a new engine today. The car has 9600 miles on it. All of the maintenance was done by Subaru at the recommended intervals.
    This car is such a piece of Junk. Subaru of America is not to helpful either.

    Very disappointing. I made the mistake of believing all of the reviews.
  • dontbuyxtdontbuyxt Member Posts: 2
    Anyone else had their 2009 XT Forester had their engine completely fail.

    Dealer called me back to tell me that the car needs a new engine. This is on a car that has 9600 miles!!! Plus, all of the maintenance was done by Subaru at the proper intervals, etc. What an incredible piece of junk. Very disappointed.

    Of course; it didnt help that the car engine crapped out thanksgiving night in the snow with my kids in the car....on a remote road in northern michigan.

    DONT BUY THE XT.....you will pay.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    There are good and bad cars made by every and I mean EVERY manufacturer.

    One bad car does not make a bad brand. Sorry that your engine blew up, but any mechanical item (space shuttle included) can and will break.

    -mike
    Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yours is the first to do that. Sorry for your bad luck.
  • bvf925bvf925 Member Posts: 12
    I had the original 1998 Forester for 8 years and loved it however, the paint faded fast on the hood, I had to replace the right front brake caliper 3 times, the heat shield constantly loosened up & vibrated annoyingly, and I hated the ugly giraffe cloth seat pattern. BUT, it was fantastic in the snow which is why I mainly bought it. I live in New England with hilly, winding, un-plowed streets. The Forrester never slid, got stuck, or disappointed me one bit. I was going to trade it in for another Subie, but the price was higher by 2005, and many things I wanted were additional add-ons but standard features on other brands. So, I went for a CR-V. Love it except for the handling in snow. It's worthless.

    I test-drove the new 2010 Forester a few weeks ago and I have to say I was not impressed. How disappointed I was. My Honda is like a Cadillac compared to the new Forester with it's cheap plastic chrome looking interior, it's cramped interior, and it's harsh ride. The moon-roof is awesome though. Love the new exterior styling over my 1998 Forester. Why does Subaru continue to have lousy stereo systems? I would have to downgrade from my current 6 CD, Cassette, 6 speaker standard stereo for a chintzy 4 speaker, 1 cd system? If I went from a 1998 Forester right to a 2010 Forester, i'd be in love. But taking a walk on the "other side" and going back is a let-down. Also after reading so many reviews here on the forums, i'd have to say the reliability has gone down-hill with Subaru. I am sad to say I may not ever buy another one even though their AWD is 2nd to none. :(
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Try an Outback - the interior is a bit nicer.

    I'm sort of puzzled when CR-V owners say that - I looked closely at one, and all the plastics are hard, the headliner is peach-fuzz on cardboard, the carpets are thin, and the door grab handles are painted silver and will wear prematurely (to be fair Honda fixes that last one for 2010).

    I think the interior styling is more subdued so perhaps it doesn't stand out as much as the Forester's, but if you look closely, materials are basically on par with the Forester, and well beneath the Outback's (check out the fabric, padded headliner and matching texture on the pillars).
  • bvf925bvf925 Member Posts: 12
    You are right, ateixeira - I did sit in an Outback and liked the interior better, and the seat was higher and more comfy too.

    My CR-V is the square body style, not the new rounded, ladybug/VW Bug style. Mine has zero fake chrome on the inside. The interior is subdued and basic monotone which is probably why I find the new Forester interior kinda' space-like and shockingly ugly (for lack of better definition).

    We'll see what happens, but I will take an Outback out for a ride when I decide to make the change. Thanks for your input!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Aaaah, that explains it.

    The class actually went through some cost cutting. Back in 2006 I remember the Forester had the Tribeca's fabric, padded headliner, and nicer cloth seats, too. I'm sure the CR-V did, also.

    Both have cut costs. The headliner is that cheap paperboard, with what feels like dryer lint glued on. It probably also saves weight.

    The RAV4 is no better, so this is par for the price class.

    I'd be happy with unpainted, matte black plastic trim, but painted fake aluminum is all the rage these days, in just about everything.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Interesting complaints. I guess when comparing to the prior generation, most things are a marked improvement. For example, space is absolutely incredible and well-portioned. Controls are well-placed and visually appealing, to me anyway, but that is one of those "to each his own" things. The ride is stiff, which is fantastic, but a little harsh with the 17" rims and Geolandar tires. I put 16" rims from a 2007 Forester on mine and, along with the studless winter tires, the harshness was gone while leaving the pleasant stiffness. This car is fantastic in off-road/semi-road situations; it is tight as a drum and very capable, though I really do wish the manual transmission included a low-range (as an option, at least).

    The two things on this car that strike me as cheap are thus: 1. The sun visors - cheap by any standard, and 2. Interior rattles. I have also never been a fan of the matte, hard dash materials (I much prefer the materials used in the late '90s), but if I actually touched the dash on a regular basis I might care a little more.

    I have never driven or been inside a CR-V; its second-class AWD system ensures that to continue.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interior styling is subjective, I happen to like the Forester's interior, but I didn't comment because to each his/her own.

    I will say this - the blue LED lighting is neat, and you may not even notice if you didn't test drive it at night. Also, the lights fade in and out, no sudden on/off. Those are nice little touches that add to the ambience.

    The sun visors are cheap, but they're durable, and if you look at competitors, they're actually probably above average.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Also, the lights fade in and out, no sudden on/off

    I noticed that about everything in this car, the first time I drove it. I like that and agree that it does "add to the ambiance." I especially appreciate the stereo's fade in/out with the mute and on/off functions.

    I have never been a car stereo connoisseur, but I like that the 6-disc and extra-speaker setup is not standard (it would increase the price!); it should, however, be optional. Given that the stereos are double-din and not built into the head unit (ala last generation's Outback/Legacy), one can put whatever is preferred in there, and at least that is a nice convenience. I rarely, if ever, even use the CD player.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, mute also, good point.

    Pop the hood, note the nice struts that hold it up. Walk around the back, note the twin mufflers, with a nice symmetry.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    First, the interior is only cramped if you're 6'6" and have a family of wolves. I'm 6'2" and this vehicle is far from cramped. Fits 4 very comfortably. I think you're reviewing the wrong vehicle. Lousy stereo is not in the XT version, which has an excellent sound system with 7 speakers and had better stereo than my previous acura. Harsh ride??? The new forester has a fantastic smoothe ride and handles great. I'm speaking about the XT version. If you selected a CRV over a new forester, I'm wondering what reviews you've been reading? I'm a long term Honda person, but there is no comparison with the CRV and Forester. The ride, handling, awd system where far above the CRV for me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The old one may have felt cramped to some folks, but the 2009+ offers 107 cubic feet of space for the first 2 rows.

    That is nothing short of incredible in a car shorter than a Chevy Cobalt coupe.
  • bvf925bvf925 Member Posts: 12
    gdoc: As stated in my earlier post, I had a 1998 Forester that I bought in the summer of 1997. Loved it immensely, but after 8 years & 3 right front calipers, faded paint on the hood, ugly giraffe cloth, and an irritatingly loose heat shield, I traded-in my Forester for a CR-V which is a Hummer (in size) compared to the new Forester. Like I mentioned, if I was going from 1998 Forester directly to a 2010 Forester, I would be in love. But, compared to my '05 CR-V which rides very smooth, has cavernous amounts of space, top-notch standard stereo system, and a tilting moon-roof, I was not impressed. I test-drove the 2010 Forester Premium Package and felt cramped in it, the ride isn't as smooth as the CR-V, and the massive moon-roof doesn't tilt. It's like comparing apples to bananas. Granted, my Honda is useless in the snow, so if I could take Subaru's AWD and stick it on my Honda I would be very happy. I will re-consider looking at an Outback though, so all is not lost. I loved my Subie, but didn't love the new Forester enough to buy another one.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    I have an 2010 Forester XT and I'm getting some door rattling. Lower speeds over uneven road surfaces. I have the vehicle going in for service this week. Does anyone know what this is? Has anyone had this repaired with any success? I find the cargo cover rattles, but I can live with this. The door rattling is very annoying. I'd appreciated any feedback I can take to the dealer. Tx!
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    I've had about 8 honda products, so I totally agree that the they make a great vehicle. I'm a sucker for some power in a vehicle and handling, so I felt this was far superior in the forester to the crv. I am a tad annoyed with a door rattle I have in both doors over the last 3 days. I can say that with my honda products, I never had any rattling. I'm hoping this is can be fixed. Looks like I would trade honda's fit and finish for the forester so far. However, driving something that handles like a car (XT version) and has addictive power is also keeping me entertained. Maybe a forester crv hybrid? The Hondaru Crvester?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I have this in my '10 Forester X Prem. as well. Mine are bad enough that you can hear them rattle just by closing them... you don't have to be driving! I have not addressed them, but have an appointment scheduled for 12/23.

    I suspect there is some wiring harness that is not tethered properly, but it is hard to say for now.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I was very disappointed about the lack of tilt on the moonroof as well, but I sure enjoy all the light it lets in. I just wish I could enjoy it right now. The cold draft that huge pane of glass creates at -20F more than offsets the benefit of the added light! Like so much of the rest of Alaska, it is now closed for the season. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The tilt would send cool air to your....luggage. :D
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Hahah!

    No, it would make for a nice air stream with a front window down. Tilt doesn't let air in so much as it lets it out. I really wish the cargo area side windows would "vent," much as they do in a minivan (I assume our Sienna has this feature?). I like being able to open all the windows in my Caravan fully, without the obnoxious wind noise associated with only having door windows down.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, Sienna does - with power, even. Ody's 3rd row windows don't even open, IIRC.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    That's crazy. The rear power vent windows are, perhaps, the best feature in my Caravan... and it is 11 years old! They even work reliably - one of the few electrical parts that do. :mad:

    To get a little more on topic... I think all "wagons" (or SUVS) should have those. I think our old 1980 Subaru GL had vent openings, but they were manual.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • aathertonaatherton Member Posts: 617
    "... I was very disappointed about the lack of tilt on the moonroof as well, but I sure enjoy all the light it lets in. I just wish I could enjoy it right now. The cold draft that huge pane of glass creates at -20F more than offsets the benefit of the added light!..."

    I have a little sliding and tilting moonroof in my Scion xB, but the panel of glass in my Subaru is the size of a table top -- too big and heavy to tilt. However, I love it in the winter as it provides so much solar heat on sunny days that the car stays warm when parked.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I love it in the winter as it provides so much solar heat on sunny days that the car stays warm when parked.

    Hahaha, I bet... at least if you live somewhere not overly cold and with light in the winter. I hope that will be the case for me in March and April, but this time of year it is far too cold for any heat to build and far too dark to get any solar gain. Besides, the sun doesn't get high enough in the sky to come in through the roof! :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • bvf925bvf925 Member Posts: 12
    "Maybe a forester crv hybrid? The Hondaru Crvester?"

    :blush: Now that's a car I would buy!! ;) The best of both worlds!! Good one, gdoc!!!
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    Brought my 2010 Forester XT to the dealership. They said this was the first time they've every heard of door rattle problems. I told them about the rattling cargo cover and both door problems and after 1 day gave me a call to give me an update. Apparently, they've identified the problem one door and "tightened" things up. They said they would work on the other door and put some felt to secure the cargo cover. Interestingly, when I drove the 2010 base model forester home, it had a worse rattle in the passenger door than my truck. I can't believe how bad the base model forester is. The Turbo forester XT with leather and navi is like driving a completely different vehicle. Suspension, handling, stereo and the power difference is remarkable. The 170hp engine is a dog in my opinion. I felt the same when I drove the 2010 honda crv. Even with the increase in horsepower in the 2010 honda crv, this is a totally gutless engine, like the base forester. If we fix the door rattles, I think the XT forester is an amazing vehicle. I would really pay the extra money for the turbo, as this engine really hustles and yes..the stereo really does suck in the base forester. If you have the extra funds, buy the Turbo with the navi - it makes the base model look like well...a CRV.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    No question though...base model CRV has better fit and finish than base Forester. It's just the power problem in both vehicles. Put the Acura TSX 2.4L 200hp engine into the CRV and I might have considered it strongly.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    My Forester XT was in for service for 2 days. They said they "tightened" everything up with both doors and tried to secure the cargo cover latch. I could tell when I closed the doors, it had a much more uniform solid feel. Interestingly, the loaner base forester had the rattling door thing way worse than mine. Overall, I drove the over many surfaces and it seems to be gone. I must say, I was so happy to get my XT with Nav back. What a difference, from the engine to the features...and stereo, it's like it's a totally different ride. In canada, the base goes for 25k, while the XT is over 37, so there should be a huge difference. Hopefully, the door rattling stays away. Anyone who is thinking about a Forester XT, should drive one! Besides the door thing, it is a blast to drive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So they fixed it? Cool.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    Tight as a drum! They had a list about a paragraph long of all the things the secured in the door. Very impressed with the service. Vehicle feels really solid and just love the ride without the rattles in the door. Even when I close the doors upfront there is a nice uniform 'thud'.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Kudos to that dealer, wish all of them were as good!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Yes, and if you have a chance of it, would you mind sharing the notes that the service department put on the work order? It might be helpful for those of us who will soon be addressing that same problem. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    Will do. Sorry for the delay. Will get the report typed up from my invoice. Give me a few days. Have 2 new problems. When I am on the highway and there is a curve in the road and the surface is uneven there is a weird noise coming from the steering column. Also, weird buzzing noise with my right front speaker when stereo is loud. grrrr
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    How loud is the volume when the buzz occurs? I will see if it happens in mine....
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    Around 28 or so if I remember. It was loud, but the sound was clear and sounded good, except for the right buzzing noise. I'm guessing it was the speaker and surrounding casing. Let me know if you find the same.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    Here are the exact notes from my service invoice

    Cause:
    Incident confirmed on driver's side door noisyfrom inside while driving. By tapping the door trim by hand can be duplicated. Passenger door seems to be normal (this is wrong, as both doors were buzzing when driving over various surfaces)
    Visual check carried out and found no abnoram condition from all the internal door components. Shoptalk bullein No. ST-12-03-09 confirmed that securing bolts of window motor.

    Correction

    Re-tighten all regulator bolts and other screws that can be seen; add insulation on plastic cover; applied door trim edges. R/Tested and problem is solved

    Lab-op:A900-331 S.T..1.7H, FC; OAX-25
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    I could not duplicate the buzzing. I started at 28, scrolled through several radio stations (to play different music and intensities at that volume setting), then increased the setting to 30 and finally to 36. While there was some distortion at the last setting, I did not hear any buzzing from the speakers.

    Perhaps I should note that the car engine was off and the vehicle was stationary at the time of this testing.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Thanks; perhaps this will help when I take my car in on the 23rd. I have noticed that I have some loud rattles in the back now; I think I have isolated them to the rear seatback latch on the driver side and something inside both rear quarter panels. I can duplicate the quarter-panel rattles by closing the rear doors, but the rattle is not coming from the doors.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    I was driving on the highway and I did have a CD on (Queen) and the song had a lot of bottom end. Had to turn it down as the buzzing only happened during a few songs.
  • gdocgdoc Member Posts: 22
    For me it's the cargo cover. When it is extended to cover up items in the back, it rattles over every bump. When it is unlatched and the contents of the back or open to view, it rattles worse. I was thinking of putting some felt or something to help. I could get the rattling to happen just by using my fist and thumping on the door panel from the inside. Since they did the work, I hear nothing in the doors, however from the from dash I do hear some noises every so often. I must say i was in my friends 2009 toyota rav 4 and it had buzzing and rattling from multiple locations. XT forester drives amazing and it is a fast truck, just wish Subaru would bump up the luxury with more bolstered leather seats and less plastic materials for the trim. It would really be the class leader by a mile if the luxury was ramped up.
  • 2009forestxal2009forestxal Member Posts: 5
    My 2009 Forester XT engine, I think main bearing, just failed. At 10,000 miles. The car was dropped off at the dealer at least 3 times, but the dealer never did any maintenance because the car was brought in for specific complaints of vibration and misc noises etc. Now the engine failure is outside of warranty. And they expect me to pay for at least engine installation and possibly turbo parts and labor. Does this seem right? Are there many failures of this type on these engines? Where can I obtain documentation of those failures? Thanks
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    Outside of warranty? I don't see any way an '09 Forester with 10,000 miles could be out of warranty. Drivetrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, and even the B2B warranty is three years or 36,000. Also, what do you mean by "never did any maintenance;" I am assuming oil was changed on regular intervals, yes?

    Please explain....
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    How could the XT be outside of warranty at 10,000 miles??!

    XT turbo engine failure is a known issue for this vehicle affecting 2008-2009 models:

    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/subaru-issues-turbo-stop-sale-certai- n-08-09-models-31757/

    I don't know if the 2010 cars are involved but have been reluctant to buy an XT because of this issue.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did you modify your engine in any way?

    They would have to have a valid reason for voiding the 5/60,000 powertrain warranty.

    If it's chipped or something, I could understand, but bone-stock no way, no how.
  • aathertonaatherton Member Posts: 617
    "... XT turbo engine failure is a known issue for this vehicle affecting 2008-2009 models..."

    He said he thought he had a main bearing failure. Perhaps he just assumed it the main bearing. A particular VIN range of the late 2008 and 2009 XT's (those manufactured between Tuesday 8 January and Saturday 5 April 2008) were failing because of disintegration of copper con rod bearing shells, as described in these links:

    "... FHI have identified the problem as abnormal wear on con rod big end bearings..."
    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/subaru-issues-turbo-stop-sale-certai- - - - n-08-09-models-31757/index5.html#post372840

    "... Turbo Engine Stop Sale checking Procedure.
    Engine Screening Procedure Two... A) If there are copper particles larger that 1 mm in the material residue, the engine is damaged.... It may be necessary to clean the particles to determine if they are copper. Copper is reddish in color..."
    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/subaru-issues-turbo-stop-sale-certai- - - - n-08-09-models-31757/index10.html#post381869
  • 2009forestxal2009forestxal Member Posts: 5
    xwesx, thanks for your reply. That is part of this situation. My wife dropped off the car while I was comfortably at work thinking the dealer was doing maintenance and instead the dealer only worked on the specific trouble report of vibration or leaking tires etc. I am accustomed to and assumed the Subaru dealership service personnel would review the required maintenance and provide advice. I had purchased a service plan from the dealer in which every other oil change was free, including the first one. The oil was never changed.
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