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Comments
While there are some very definite advantages to DBW, some HIGHLY advantagous, Toyota/etc's base reason for adopting DBW fleet wide had its origins in a design flaw in the U140E/F ("F" = F/awd) transaxle developed initially for the RX300.
Since Toyota/etc wanted to adopt (~2002) the more fuel efficient U140E across the fleet something had to be done to "cover-up" the design flaw. So DBW was adopted to "protect the drive train", prevent premature failures of the U140E transaxle when a downshift could not be accomplished in the time allotted, driver expectation of downshift "time".
So DBW was used to "hold-off" rising engine torque in response to gas pedal position/depression for 1-2 seconds to allow the extended time needed for the transaxle to accomplish a downshift shortly following an upshift.
Here we are, 2010, and Toyota/etc is still struggling with this same issue. Whereas Ford, with the new Edge, simply adopted a variable displacement ATF oil pump, low volume for HIGH engine revs and incrementally higher, selective volume, for lower engine revs.
Interesting theory you have there. (Wondering where it was published initially. Was it by Toyota, or a third party engineering journal?)
I'm sorry, but I don't understand exactly the meaning of your sentence, "prevent premature failures of the U140E transaxle when a downshift could not be accomplished in the time allotted, driver expectation of downshift "time". "
The part that confuses me, I guess, is the reference to the "timing" of a downshift. I wouldn't have thought that most drivers/owners gave a rat's butt about the timing of a downshift in their automatic tranny. If you could use a "real driving scenario" to explain what this means, I'd appreciate it.
Also, my question is (I'm an unlucky buyer of an 07 Camry, which I believe was its first year of application in that model).....what was wrong with the good old "planetary gear system" (or whatever the heck it was) OLD style Camry transmission? I never heard any horror stories about it. Were there lots that I missed? (since I was busy driving my 1997 manual transmission model?)
Thanks for additional insight, Willard.
Michael
That's much more effective from an engineering standpoint, but it probably costs more than covering up a shift lag by changing the engine control in the software. What I think you're saying is the complaints about a long shift lag when someone was slowing down on a ramp and floored the accelerator to merge into a coming available slot caused toyota to change their software. Now the engine doesn't produce much power for a period of time until the transmission has had time to effect the long downshift time and is ready for more engine torque. So the car just doesn't go anywhere but feels like the motor is accelerating but it's only at low power.
Is that it?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just a suggestion for Mr. West: Please avoid obscure abbreviations and all caps, and try to explain things in a way a non-engineer can understand.
Much the same as the power stearing punp, HUGE energy loss due to pumping so much fluid up to pressure and then simply dumping it back into the sump if it was not needed.
With the U140E/F the spring loaded pressure relief valve was eliminated in favor of an ECU controlled solenoid that determined the ATF line pressure in "real-time". So while the ATF pump was still pumping VOLUMES of fluid most of the time it was no longer doing so under a HUGE back pressure.
So if ATF line pressure was to be controlled, varied, under real-time requirements, there was no reason to keep the pressure holding accumulator. So it too, was abolished.
Now, with the engine at idle, the condition it is likely to be in when you release the gas pedal for a short/brief coasting period, and with the upshift resulting from that same gas pedal release, there is, will be, NO reserve ATF pressure in preparation for that upcoming(??) downshift.
The post following yours does a very good job of that.
Or else you could find Toyota/etc's own examples, three of them, as stated in the TSB released in the of 2003 as applies to that year's Camry.
It was EXACTLY that kind of scenario or the equally or even MORE dangerous one of slowing down to make a turn across a line of ONCOMING traffic at an intersection that led me to confronting my dealer about the dangers of the DBW in the first place.
Here in Canada.....at least here in St. Catharines Ontario...our dealers were in COMPLETE denial of (or just out of the info loop on) any DBW problems and said simply "It's normal".
When I finally confronted them with the TSB for ECM re-do,(I downloaded it off this site) they tried to tell me the paper I was holding wasn't a TSB and wasn't even a Toyota document. (They were about 5% right, because the Canadian TSB's look slightly different and have a different name......but it was the same damn content and detail...needless to say, I was pissed when they finally conceded to performing the fix.)
The new firmware simply tries to predict, forecast, what the driver's next action will/might be when pressure is removed from the gas pedal. A fast/rapid release is presumed to mean that the driver wishes to slow the car using (presumably) engine compression and so the transaxle will remain in the current (low,lower??) gear ratio. On the other hand a light/slow release of foot pressure on the gas pedal and the presumption will be that the driver simply wishes to enter cruise mode and if an upshift is appropreate then the transaxle will upshift.
The transaxle, STILL, cannot perform a QUICK downshift following an upshift if the engine RPM is at idle or close by.
BUT you gotta admit, whatever they did to the Camry's transmission.....they sure screwed it up compared to what it used to be.
Regards,
Mike
My TSB was ill-performed: they failed to take the car out on the road for the mandatory "training regimen" and they also didn't have the stickers on hand to apply under the hood, to show that the work had been performed. (as dictated by the TSB.) The told me they'd MAIL it to me!! Laughable.
I do not have a manual or a warrantee as the car is salvage title.
Chris
- set to trip A
- turn engine off
- holding odometer reset button, turn key to ON (not start) while holding reset button, for about 5 seconds as display bars count down.
For fuse, not exactly clear from the electrical schematics. The EC mirror is fused off the 10A ECU 1G#1 fuse.
But also check 10A Dome, 7.5A Gauge#2, 10A MPX-B, and 30A sunroof since those power different roof elements.
It IS definitely more expensive, but you shouldn't be having a dealer perform oil changes for you anyway. Having any shop change your oil (or even doing it yourself) does not void your warranty, so why pay someone 135 bucks an hour when Walmart can do it for 50.......including parts and labour!!
I'll be curious to see what other comments you receive, but now you've got my 2c worth. (I'm an auto mechanics school graduate and three time Camry owner...for what it's worth.)
Cheers and good luck with your car. Be sure to find a 'friendly' dealer and ask his service manager to provide you with any and all Technical Service Bulletin upgrades.
Michael
Otherwise, if you have a warranty claim with the engine, it might not be honored, even if you have used synthetic.
I have a 2010 4-cylinder SE and the manual states that the OCI is every 6 months or 5000 miles.
The Service Mgr. at my dealer says that 10K intervals are fine for the 2010, but until I get this in writing from Toyota I will stick to the 5K interval.
If it is not in writing from Toyota, it didn't happen. That's my position.
My dealership is pushing me hard to go to the 10K OCI. I think because they gave me coupons for 3 free oil changes during the first year. If I go to the 10K interval, they will only have to provide 1 of the free oil changes.
I assume you have an automatic transmission.
It did snow a lot this past month (I live in central VA).
TOYOTA V6 OIL LINE SCANDAL
http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
If you weren't hotdogging it around in the snow, then there would be nothing that they could read out of the computer that would indicate that you caused the problem.
If you were, then tail between legs, and be at best behavior and maybe they'll cut you a break on the repair bill....hopefully covering some piece of it.
Holy crap, Batman! My Toyota dealer charges $39.95 for an oil change, which includes tire rotation AND the top off of fluids.
How can spinning tires when stuck in the snow wreck a tranny unless you were doing it hard for a prolonged period of time? Sounds like there may be another hidden defect on their cars? I hope Toyota isn't racing to beat Chrysler into last place for reliability with their rush for the sales crown.
If you can afford the Tundra now, it would be a great time to buy. Then sell the Camry later this year.
https://www.alg.com/ResidualValueAwards
plus, now Nissan extended the powertrain coverage to 10yrs/120k miles on CVT equipped vehicles so it would be a smart move for Toyota, since it is Nissan, Hyundai, and Ford who are going to benefit the most from Toyota's current troubles!
An extended warranty is not much good if it is seen as an alternative to being dead.
I was, of course, referring to a full Synthetic oil change....which I don't think your dealer would do for $39.95. (and Walmart also includes a 20 point inspection including all fluid top-ups, by the way.)
Plus, don't forget, I'm quoting in wimpy old Canadian dollars......from wimpy old Canada; we pay about 30% more for everything here. (Gotta pay for Universal Healthcare somehow.......right!?)
Got the hockey game all ready to go? Go CANADA!!!
On several fronts Toyota seems to be making an effort to assure the public that the electronics, absolutely, is not the cause. That statement is totally inappropriate absent knowing, and announcing, the actual cause. Once the cause is know then, only then, should you be giving this level of assurance.
Is Toyota protecting NipponDenso from exposure...??
Why...??!!
NipponDenso is a "sister" Japanese company..??
If NipponDenso is found to be at fault what happens with all the other asian marques, and even US marques that use Denso US, that use the very same base hardware design and firmware code...??
A "wide net" that would be..!
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Share your vehicle reviews
1. Is anybody experiencing bad odour from their 2009 Camry when the A/C is switched on? I washed my car and i feel water or something has entered the front grills of my car and since then bad odour is coming up its been almost 9 months and its still not going and its bad when its rainy and less when the weather is hot.
2. I had my servicing done 3 months back and after they rotated the tires my car is drifting towards the right little.. i had to go on a vacation and could not take it back to the dealer on time and now he is asking me $60 + tax for tire alignment... Is it very necessary?
3. I am not at all happy with the Toyota Dealer i am going to for my vehicle servicing... Is it ok to get the oil changes done in Wal-Mart or Firestone etc? What are the advantages of taking it to a dealer itself?
Most everybody at one time or another in certain climate zones and with these more modern high(er) efficiency A/C systems will have experienced the "dirty gym socks" odor.
Approximately 10,000 square inches of tightly packaged evaporator cooling vane surface area and a pretty well sealed, restricted air flow-through cabin environment.
The simplest solution is to leave windows cracked just a bit during the night to let the accumulated moisture dry out. Also solves, mostly, the issue of sudden unexpected windshield fogging.
See airsept.com for a possible answer.
If you are able to leave your car parked in the sun with the windows down at last an inch for air flow, I find that heats up the whole car and dries the offending moisture in the heater box. The windows allow the breeze to pull air through the heater and help dry it. If the day is really breezy, I will leave windows on one side open and close the others to help draw air through the heater box.
I also turn off the AC before I get home and turn the blower on HIGH for the last quarter mile or so. I sometimes let the blower run before leaving the car. Again, I feel that helps pull moisture off the fins inside the heater and drain out.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My car is drifting slightly to the right after the tires were rotated last time at the dealership..