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Comments
I'm curious as to why not? I wouldn't be too concerned over first year reliability issues since Subaru has had an excellent track record of late.
-Frank
For instance we've seen two different headliners, so it's definitely not finalized yet.
Nonetheless, the 09 is still not that tall, and Edmunds' comments on the handling make me feel at ease.
I just remember seeing the warnings in a Tacoma 4x4 and thinking how awful it would be to have to look at those every day. The labels were not made in such a way as to be removable.
You get unsightly air bag warnings either way.
Peaty over on scoobymods basically painted over them to mask that somewhat.
Despite my lack of concern about the '09 as a first-year model, it might be raised as a perception issue in a future trade. Probably not, but waiting another year doesn't much matter (other than my hankering for novelty). I'll likely have @14K more miles on the Baja by then, but I'll also only owe a few $K on it, so with a decent trade my future monthly payments on a new vehicle will be less. I refuse to finance a car for more than 48 months (& would prefer 36), but the high payments on the Baja haven't thrilled me (it's the first new car I've bought in over 20 years - usually, I buy a late-model, low-mileage used one), but buying a new car now would lock me in to several more years of high payments. By sticking out the high payments for another year, I'll have a much higher down payment when I trade -- I don't expect that the Baja will depreciate more than the amount that I'll have paid during the same period (& I've got a 2.9% loan, so most of my payments now go to principal).
Even if I wait 'til 2010 or 2011 to buy a new car, though, I'm still not absolutely sure I'll go with a Forester. I'm leaning heavily toward it, but it's not a given - I'll probably consider a few other makes. Also, there's still a possibility that I'll slap an ARE cap on the Baja, continue with regular maintenance, and drive it until it becomes unreliable (& who knows how long that will be!). My only real complaint with the Baja is the heavy bed cover that isn't easy to open and isn't watertight - a cap would cure that issue, but I'm not sure I wouldn't rather put the cost of the cap toward a new vehicle instead.
I am able to say with certainty that if the 2009 Forester has front fog lights, then the vehicle has everything needed to activate the rear fog light.
The procedure is as follows:
1-Approach your Subaru dealership and ask to talk with the Subaru electrician
2-Request that you want a rear fog light in your car activated.
3-The technician will most possible respond that he/she needs to order some stuff.
The stuff will probably be:
Rear fog light fuse
Rear fog light relay
Rear fog light bulb (a brake bulb will do OK)
Rear fog light unit (one or two): if the reflector is just a piece of plastic.
4-If the technician is skillful and the parts have been ordered he/she will do the job in a couple of hours maximum.
What the technician will do while you are waiting?
He/she will uncover the harness at the rear of the car and will identify the power wire in this harness to connect to the rear fog lamp unit connector.
She/he will connect the Vehicle Communication Interface (VCI) to the vehicle (located in the driver seat area). The VCI will be connected as well to a laptop and a software program will be run to tell the OBC (on-board-computer) to recognize the new hardware (i.e. rear fog light).
Once the rear fog light obeys the manipulation of the stalk multi-function switch, at the steering wheel column the job can be considered as finished.
Happy owner of 05 FXT
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
-Frank
Here's what my Baja would look like with the ARE cap (except I have a turbo, so mine has the hood scoop, but it's the same color as the one pictured):
This does not seem to be happening with the Outback drive train (much above average to a little above average over 8 years).
Does something wear out in the Forester/Impreza driveline after 5 years? Could it be the clutch packs, or something else?
The rear fog lights also usually are in the same spot in the rear cluster as one of the backup lights. Europe only requires 1 backup light, the US requires 2.
Good luck in your search, you'll spend a lot more than the simple Hella rear fog light for about $50.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
For instance we've seen two different headliners, so it's definitely not finalized yet.
FYI the 09 Foresters are actually in port in the PNW. So whatever the headliner, it's in them already.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
And greetings to a fellow Honda del Sol driver.
Maybe the X will get the peach fuzz headliner, and the higher end models will get the upscale woven fabric on the other car.
This does not seem to be happening with the Outback drive train (much above average to a little above average over 8 years).
AFIK there are no differences in the components of the AWD. However, there might be differences in wheel bearings source between Indiana cars (Outbacks) and Impreza/Forester made-in-Japan cars. Respondents to CU questionnaires might not distinguish between wheel bearings and AWD failures. Wheel bearing problems have been reported here at various times.
I have the 2008 CR buyer's guide in front of me. They don't score the AWD system seperately.
Let me look at the detailed scores, and interpret them from what I've seen and heard from real-world experiences.
Overall, the 01 model is Average and every other year is above average.
The only below average detailed scores are for exhaust (2001), drive system (2001), and Engine, major (also 2001).
Interpreting those, the exhaust is self-explanatory, the drive system is very, very likely due to the wheel bearing failures, which were common up until 2003 when they redesigned them.
Note that CR's scores are better than average for drive system from 2003 and on, and that jibes with my theory.
We all know the engine was the head gasket failues. 2002 and on they are better than average. That is exactly the year where they switched to a new head gasket material, in fact our 2002 Subaru is not covered by the extended 100k mile warranty for head gaskets for that reason.
Again, CR's scores jibe with the common knowledge here on Edmunds - head gaskets were a problem until around 2002.
Even the exhaust is OK from 2003 and on.
There has not been a single trouble spot, below average that is, after 2001. That year was the first face-lift, so who knows, maybe there was some hidden cost cutting.
I have faith that the 2009 Forester will be reliable. The powertrain is an evolution of what is reliable today, so I don't see a reason for any significant change.
Subaru forked out a bunch of money for wheel bearings and head gaskets, so you know they'll keep an eye out for those issues, too.
So why are the bearings failing?
What can be done to keep them healthy?
Do they need regular lubrication?
Car & Driver abused their car pretty badly, I think they had some other issues, too. Plus it was a pre-production 2005 model IIRC.
-Frank
Poor design or bad production run
What can be done to keep them healthy?
Nothing. As Juice said, they're sealed.
Do they need regular lubrication?
Nope (see above)
The good news is we seldom hear about them failing anymore so I'm guessing that most of the bearings that were going to go bad already have
-Frank
So why are the bearings failing?
If it was front bearings (I can't recall), there might have been a reason for lowering the drive end of the engine a little bit as was done on the new Impreza. The off-angle forces would have been reduced somewhat. Such small changes can greatly reduce bearing load resulting in longer life.
The fix is what they did in the STi and Tribeca, using SVX based bearings which are bigger, heavier duty units. That's why the STi and Tribeca use the SVX wheel lug pattern. 5x114 as opposed to 5x100 used in the others.
I had a wheel bearing failure in my 94 Legacy turbo, after 150k miles and 15k track and race miles...
None of my other Subarus ever had a bearing failure with about 500k miles driven en total.
-mike
I wouldn't be surprised - I've got tons of Baja pictures on my hard drive that I've accumulated over the years and don't recall the source (other than various places on the web).
My del Sol was a blast - with the VTEC engine, it was like a turbo-charged roller skate. It was the perfect car for when I lived in downtown DC and didn't have my own parking space - it fit in lots of spaces where other cars couldn't. Plus I loved the removable hardtop roof (a ragtop parked on city streets isn't a great choice). On an impulse, I gave it to my niece for her 16th birthday (in 1998) and immediately regretted the decision (but wouldn't think of asking for it back).
Anyway... done reminiscing, now back on topic.
I hate to tell you but even my 2004 Forester has the obnoxious yellow rollover warning stickers. The good news is that you quickly stop noticing them. For instance, I was pretty sure I had them but had to keep reminding myself to look
-Frank
-Frank
Just so we collectively get the most bang for our emails, what email address are we to send our concerns to?
-Frank
Wait and see - not too much longer, anyway...
It's not that much of a killer swap to do, the parts are all available, so it's just a matter of getting a mechanic to do it for yah.
It's not like the SVX which there was no way to swap em in easily w/o serious fabrications.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
I haven't posted here in some time, but like to keep informed often by reading your views. I drive an '06 Tribeca and really enjoy it. My lease ends in July and want to down size vehicles. I plan on staying with subaru and really like the new Forester and also the Outback.
My only complaint over the years with Subaru is the lack of the telescopic steering wheel. Why due they refuse to include this simple addition on all of their vehicles? The Tribeca creeps to 40k and lacks this feature, why? Though it's included on some Outbacks and the new Forester XT. Is this feature just to costly to include on all of the models?
Sorry if it appears that I am rambling about what is probably not important to most people, but I just find it strange.
Well yes that's what we pretty much assumed. However, sometimes it's worth it to offer an option even though it may not be in high demand. For instance, is was the manual transmission Forester XT that won Car & Driver's Best Small SUV award twice. I wonder how many additional Foresters were sold because of those awards and the associated publicity...
-Frank
I think RAV4 is the current champ, let's see if the 09 update is enough to steal the top spot back.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2008.html
2009 measurements, with my tape measure. Note I attempted to catch the same measurements, but the exact location used may vary from theirs. FWIW, here goes (all measures in inches, most rounded):
A - was 36, now 40
B - was 53.5, now 52. Note there are pockets so something like an umbrella might get as much as 62" of width
C - was 41.5, now 42
D - was 37.5, now 43
E - was 46.5, now 45.5
F - was 53.25, now 48
Those are all width related. Basically it's more square and consistent. While some measures are smaller, the 09 will fit boxy items better, the wheel wells intrude much less basically.
G - was 13, now 17. The wheel well is taller, but not nearly as wide, basically.
H - was 31.5, now a whopping 36 inches. Huge gains in floor length.
I - was 62 before, now 67 inches, again big gains in cargo length
J - was 32.25, remains the same, I got 32" rounded off
K - was 34", now 31.5". Less height in some places, perhaps the cargo floor is higher?
L - was 31, now 30.5", about the same useful height with a moonroof
Those are the hard numbers from my tape measure.
Joe Spitz now has his own measurements for the '09 up on his site. What surprises me is he shows the cargo length (measurement I) as being shorter then the '08. Both say that they are measured to the to of the rear seat when folded. This is unexpected, and not only contrasts with the measurements Juice was nice enough to provide (Joe 09: 60", Joe 08: 62", Juice 09: 67"), but also with the conventional '09 Forester wisdom to date. :confuse: Myself, I want more rear legroom, AND more cargo space. Y'know, cake, eat, and all of that.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Some may be attributed to how we obtained each measure.
I had the hatch open, and measured the bump in the plastic all the way to the back of the front seat, which I had positioned all the way back, and reclined to a comfortable position.
I measured at floor level, though, I just saw the "top of the rear seat" part now. To me floor level is what matter because that's where you would place stuff. I'm thinking of flat-packed boxes from, say, Ikea.
I doubt the longer 09 Forester shrunk on that measure.
Len