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2009 Subaru Forester

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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    That's the same as Legacy, Outback & the Impreza sedan... dual exhaust on every one of them.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It looks nice, too.

    Strange that the Impreza 2.5i sedan gets a dual exhaust but the WRX hatch gets by with a single.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    I have a feeling that it is because the dual exhaust is merely a show feature - the the pipes are T'ed off near the rear axle. On the WRX, a performance-oriented machine popular with the tuner crowd, what is the point in a showy feature like this when so many owners modify the exhaust system nearly the moment they buy one?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I looked at this at the NY Autoshow last year. The hatch has no room behind the rear to have dual mufflers in the rear. There is only room for 1 long can behind the rear suspension on it. This is similar to the SVX where they had a single can ala F-body cars back there.

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Agreed, more show than go, since the dual exhaust models have no extra HP.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They are 2 smaller ones v. 1 larger one. So it makes sense that they aren't anymore powerful. I like the look of 2 better personally.

    -mike
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    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    The new Forester looks interesting. The extra room is welcome. I will likely consider one down the road. In the mean time I think Subaru needs to address several issues.
    1.As others have mentioned, Subaru really needs to offer a 5spd auto or a CVT.
    2.They should bring back a FWD version. The energy bill makes the AWD a bit of a liability. Back in the early 90s my FWD Legacy worked great even in the snow. The FWD would cost less, weigh less and have better performance using the same motor.
    3.Subaru should consider selling a FWD model with the 2.0L motor. Removing the AWD and using a smaller engine should result in a 200 pound reduction in weight. My guess is that the vehicle would weigh about 3,000 pounds – something a 140 hp, 2.0L engine could handle.
    4.Subaru might also consider a 1.5L turbo.
    5.A diesel motor, I am not sure about. Around here gasoline is going for $3.10 and diesel is $3.55. I have seen the spread as high as 70 cents. The higher cost of diesel negates some of the fuel savings. A lot will depend on the extra cost for the diesel motor. We have also had shortages of diesel but not gasoline. If another longer shortage hits during spring planting or fall harvesting things could get ugly.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If they offer FWD there would be no compelling reason to buy a subaru over say a Honda or a Toyota IMO.

    -mike
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    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    I consider the Forester a decent vehicle even without the AWD. Prices for the Forester are competitive with the RAV4 and CRV. Around here I can get a Forester for $21K while the others are above $24K when I can find a basic model. Drop the AWD and the price would likely be just $20k. We have a FWD 4cyl Highlander and like it a lot. You might be right in that others won't see the value. The 08 model was just a wee bit small. The new model appears to be just big enough. I like the increase ride height too. What will Subaru actually do to meet the energy bill requirements, only time will tell.
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    batman47batman47 Member Posts: 606
    The best performance that a V6 engine (AWD) can deliver is 18/24 miles/gallon and this is the Nissan Murano CVT with prices $29,000-$34,000. CVT helps economize petrol consume. The other alternative is Diesel engine that increases to 22/30 miles/gallon. Latest German Diesel can do this by using an extra tank with some urea chemical fluid to eliminate pollutants. The other situation is to stick to 4-cyl engines that could perform 19/26 miles/gallon. The problem with using a 4-cyl on line vehicles is that the towing capacity is around 1,500 lbs. Only those who want to tow a boat or a caravan -in my opinion- need a V6 or V8. I think these are the people who can afford to expend thousands of dollars in extra petrol. The problem with CVT engines is the engine noise when accelerating and the small time lag that the CVT needs to respond. If buyers do not care about the noise then a CVT is the solution. I think the 4-speed automatic in the Forester has been proved to be reliable and Toyota is still using it in its RAV4.

    I will not advise to buy a FWD instead of a 4WD/AWD just because of saving of money. Rear wheel drive only or FWD only is not sufficient to avoid an accident on icing roads. I know what scaring is when the car starts to skid without control out of the road.

    I wish the 2009 Forester price would not be higher than$24,000-$25,000. I wonder why the Forester is not in the top 10 SUV (2007)?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree with mike. Subaru's low point was 1994, IIRC, when they last sold FWD. They were getting clobbered by the giants, and don't have the resources even now.

    Toyota now owns a share of Subaru so expect to see HSD hybrids in the future. That, plus a CVT, plus maybe diesels, is how Subaru will meet future CAFE standards.

    Also, remember that "35 mpg" ain't really 35 mpg. That formula uses the old, unadjusted EPA numbers, which are much, much higher than the numbers we see on the window stickers now.

    For instance, Subaru's CAFE scores right now is right at 27.5mpg, yet if you look at the EPA combined numbers for even the most efficient models they are only low 20s.
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    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    4WD/AWD is a bit overrated in my view. FWD works just fine in snow and ice. I have spent the last 30 years driving in Northern States without problems. For work I have driven 4WD trucks. AWD or 4WD will provide a little bit more acceleration in snow or ice. Unfortunately people think they can drive just as fast in poor conditions. In reality the AWD adds weight which slightly increases your stopping distance. I would rather have a FWD that slips a bit on takeoff. It is a gentle reminder that conditions are slippery and that I should slow down, stopping distances will be longer. And to quote the latest CR “Subaru touts the safety of its standard AWD, but the Legacy's rear end swings out too easily.”

    You should be able to find a 2009 Forester for under $24k, Just don't load it up with every option. ;)
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Not just when accelerating in snow or ice, AWD can also help you through a slick corner if you keep a little power going to the wheels. AWD will find the wheels with traction, pulling the vehicle through and keeping it on course. That can happen in gravel, rain, and oil as well as ice and snow. You're absolutely right that it's no substitute for safe driving, but it can compensate from some problems beyond even the safest driver's control. Add to that Subaru's industry-leading crash tests, and you've got about as safe of a vehicle as you can buy.

    Subaru's been holding prices down pretty well. I think you'll be able to get a Premium with automatic transmission for around $24k, and prices should start around $21k. (Good sales prices, not MSRP. :) )
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    CR probably doesn't know how to drive an AWD car and let off the gas at the first feeling they were losing control. With AWD you MUST keep your foot into the gas, gently, in order for the AWD to shift the power to the axle with the most grip.

    -mike
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    jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    I agree AWD is over rated in many cases. Sure appying a little gas makes the AWD perform better, but when everyone else is slowing down, going faster or maintaining your speed is impossible. I believe TireRack once did a study on AWD vs Winter tires and found AWD only really helped on acceleration.

    It certainly appears that most vehicals that end up in the ditches are AWD or 4x4s. Probably due to driver error, but maybe a false sense of secuirty as well.

    The only times AWD has helped me has been in farm fields in the spriing and winter where there is no traffic to deal with and twice on the highway climbing a hill at 5 mph during a snow storm in stop and go traffic. Some FWD cars with poor tires couldn't climb it.

    I imagine AWD might also help if your driving like you stole it.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno about that.

    We got a FWD Sienna minivan, mostly because we still have a Subaru in our fleet, so I'll drive that when there is significant snow fall.

    Any how, we got about an inch a few weeks ago. The Sienna struggled to make it up my driveway. And this was just one inch of snow! It stalled about half way up, the VSC made some ugly noises, then it dug in and fought it's way up.

    I was shocked that a measly inch of snow gave it that much trouble.

    My driveway goes up an incline, and with the long wheelbase, all the weight shifts to the rear axle.

    I seriously doubt I could make it up my own driveway safely if we get 3" or more of snow, so I guess I'll park it on the street in those conditions.

    We drove the Legacy later that night and you couldn't even tell there was snow on the ground. Night and day.

    AWD is not over-rated, IMHO.
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    AWD is not over-rated, IMHO

    The problem is that too many drivers think AWD is the panacea for every situation and it clearly is not. That's why now-a-days you seem to see more SUVs in the ditch after a big snow or ice storm. The perception (fostered by the auto makers) is that a full-size SUV can go anywhere at anytime. So you get these "idiots" blasting down the snow/ice-covered or rain-slick road just as if it was warm and sunny. And then they're completely surprised when they try to stop quickly (while tail-gating of course) and lose control.

    -Frank
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    While that's true, we have to account for 2 things:

    * most of the vehicles out on snowy days are SUVs
    * how do we even know if those SUVs were 2WD or 4WD

    Actually, rolled over, you can see all the hardware, so nix that 2nd item. :D

    image
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    * most of the vehicles out on snowy days are SUVs

    True. Having an SUV does seem to embolden those drivers to venture out

    * how do we even know if those SUVs were 2WD or 4WD

    I have no doubt that there are SUV owners who assume that the mere fact that they're driving an SUV (regardless of whether or not its 4WD) gives them special powers ;)

    -Frank
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    Perhaps, but the majority of problems folks have in inclement weather is due to their own incompetence rather than the capabilities of the vehicle, regardless of type, equipment, etc. It is difficult to make up for a bad driver with added equipment. I had a FWD, crappy-tire rental car in Buffalo, NY, during a heavy snow storm and had no problems while drivers of FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4WD were going off the road left and right. It was sad to watch, really. It still baffles me. But I tell you what, I have never seen snow fall that fast before. :surprise:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    "But I tell you what, I have never seen snow fall that fast before."

    Says the man in Alaska! :surprise:
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But look, how convenient would it be to rotate those tires?

    And the easy access to that spare in the photo.

    Think of all the benefits of rollovers! :D
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    And all the change that falls out from under the seats can easily pay for any body damage. :)
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,796
    Hahah! That's right. You have to remember that I live in interior Alaska. That is the precipitation equivalent of, say, the Columbia Basin (eastern Washington & Oregon). After 6 months of snow that sticks and stays, we have 12-14" on the ground come meltdown in the spring. That is not much - maybe 24-30" over the whole winter in amounts of rarely more than 6" per snowfall.

    Buffalo, in that particular storm, received more than seven feet in five days. I was there on day one of the storm. It had snowed for about 3-4 hours prior to when I got there and more than a foot was already on the ground.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Actually it is overrated if you live in Florida or Southern California. In a snow belt it is highly desireable as a safety aide, the snow needs to be really bad before one gets stuck.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    4WD/AWD is a bit overrated in my view. FWD works just fine in snow and ice. I have spent the last 30 years driving in Northern States without problems

    I had my RWD BMW with all-seasons for a few winters and it handled just fine as well. Was it optimal? Heck no. My AWD Subaru with all seasons can run rings around the BMW and most cars with FWD. It's much more optimal than a FWD with all seasons.

    The Legacy with ESC isn't letting it's rear end go anywhere.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Like Canada, we won't be getting a Forester XT 5-speed manual. :(

    Bob
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    WHAT??????? :mad: :cry: :sick:
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wow, bummer.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    ...if the '09 Outback XT and Legacy GT will also be auto-only? Most of these that I've seen have been automatic. They sell very few manuals in those trim levels.

    Bob
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Here several of us are subtly pushing Subaru as being the MT friendly company over in the Future of Manual Transmissions forum and it looks like Subaru is deserting us :mad:

    -Frank
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    jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    :surprise: No Leggy wagon and now no manual turbos on the XT? Subaru risks alienating many people whose primary shopping point is the driving experience and direct connection to the vehicle. Could this be temporary 'til their DSG tranny for the STI is out? Perhaps all ATs will be CVT & all "manuals" DSG in a couple years? Many of those folks are real Subaru enthusiasts who appreciate the brand's engineering.

    They've lost a bit of their "green" base already, and this could further erode their divergent base of loyal customers, which is always risky even if the brand sells more mainstream models in the short term.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    ...the only manuals we will see here in the future from Subaru are entry-level Impreza, Forester, Legacy and Outback models; and truly sporting models, STI, WRX, and spec.B. Sad, but that seems to be the way they are heading.

    Bob
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    If true, Subaru is in serious danger of losing me as a customer :(

    -Frank
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    HUH? Say it ain't so....

    You can't drop your manual, especially not before your auto is competitive with the best. That's insane! :mad:
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The next gen Legacy will have a 6MT mated to a 3.6L H6 engine, so don't jump the gun yet.

    -mike
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    avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    This is a bit of a late post, but what you describe sounds like oversteer. Most people have a natural inclination to lift off the pedal when they get in trouble. I thought most car makers try for neutral or a bit of understeer. I re-read the CR article on the Legacy. It describes classic lift-off oversteer - go into a corner too fast, lift off throttle, tail slides out and the car spins. I hope the Forester is more neutral in handling.
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    akasrpakasrp Member Posts: 170
    New 09 Forester looks good to me.
    My 04 Forester XT has got a good resale value - so, as soon as they come in, I'm gonna test an 09 XT Limited Forester - if the 09 has less road noise (these California freeways are freakin' 3rd World) and is less creaky (my dash has rattled since day one - 3 tries and Sube Service still can't quiet it - rattle always comes back - so it goes) than my 04, I'm in.
    Nothing else out there even remotely blows my dress up!
    Got a good feeling about this update. XT Love!
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    jetterjetjetterjet Member Posts: 3
    I have been hoping that the Subaru would get an update as I'm ready for a new ride. I like the new look although it is starting to look a lot like what just about every other manufacturer is starting to offer. As long as they keep the things that make a Subaru a Subaru. I agree that there is not much else out there to get excited about. Does anyone know when the 2009 will be in the showroom?
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Forester Features (preliminary)
    http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Temp/Sites/1571/aaf9bd827ea24b309ea3f21d98215- 0b4/2009_Forester_AAG.pdf

    Forester Specs (preliminary)
    http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Temp/Sites/1571/154e899e90fc4a6b8441b6b6dd805- 101/2009_Forester_prelim_specs.pdf
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4097
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    http://www.subaru.com/sub/misc/2009/forester/index.html?cid=tr_2009_Forester_own- - - er

    DaveM (been lurking for the last couple of years)
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    http://content.subaru.com/sub/misc/2009/forester/pdf/brochure.pdf

    DaveM (been lurking for the last couple of years)
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hey Dave! Long time, no see! How's life treating you? Going to the Philly show?

    Bob
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Lifes had it's ups and downs like everyone else.

    I'll probably be going the the Philly show, but not sure which day.

    I also thought about meeting the 48 hrs. of Tri-State crew at SOA headquarters on 2/1.
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    batman47batman47 Member Posts: 606
    Mates:

    Subaru America has sent me this URL to inspect the new 2009 Forester

    http://content.subaru.com/sub/misc/2009/forester/pdf/brochure.pdf

    Please checks it.

    You could pre-order this vehicle.
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    batman47batman47 Member Posts: 606
    Will someone explain what is in the Premium Package?
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    dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    17" wheels, roof rails, panoramic moonroof, reclining rear seats, retractable rear center console w/cupholders, to name a few things you get with the PP over the base model.
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    batman47batman47 Member Posts: 606
    Thanks:

    2009 Forester accessories. Where can I find information about this vehicle accessories?

    SOHC (2.5X) vs DOHC(2.5XT) what will you recommend and why?
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    batman47batman47 Member Posts: 606
    What is 2.5X L.L. Bean Edition?
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