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Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?

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  • berriberri Posts: 4,206
    But remember, it's the newest and buff magazines usually gravitate to that. I've actually heard a few VW drivers lament that it is losing its German identity.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,863
    I've actually heard a few VW drivers lament that it is losing its German identity.

    That's because it's no longer a German car. It was designed for the American market. The old Passat (B6) was never a big seller as it was too expensive and too European.

    The recently Americanized Jetta is selling well. VW NA hopes the same the Passat.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    VW sold 444,192 cars in the US last year (including Audi, Bentley and Lamborghini sales). They think 500k is within reach this year.

    Volkswagen eyes 2012 US sales above 500,000 cars (indiatimes.com)

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  • berriberri Posts: 4,206
    I've now seen several new Passat's - Big Yawn! The base 5 cylinder engine, something not talked about much in the press, is the same agrarian powerplant used a decade ago, and it shows.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Buying the Passat with anything but the diesel seems silly to me. You are right about that 5 cylinder engine. I have driven cars with it. Just does not get it. Not in a league with the TDI. And not very good mileage.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    "Volkswagen AG's namesake brand sold 27,209, a 48% increase for its best January performance since 1974, according to the company. VW announced yesterday that it was adding 200 jobs to its Chattanooga, Tenn., plant to meet expanded demand."

    January U.S. Auto Sales Jump (WSJ)

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    "But like other carmakers, Europe's economic slowdown continues to be a drag on Volkswagen.

    "VW has previously highlighted the need to provision for price competition in Europe, which suggests the market in Europe continues to be difficult," said Mr Tyndall."

    (Translation - annual profits were great but the 4th quarter wasn't so hot).

    Volkswagen annual profits double to 15.8bn euros (BBC)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Did any of the other Carmakers come close in profit. How many cars did GM and Toyota sell in 2011?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    From the looks of the Beijing Auto show, VW is headed in the right direction and Toyota, well you tell me.

    Do you want a Toyota powered couch or a VW Beetle convertible EV? Are our Auto shows in the USA this elaborate with 2000 companies represented?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2137302/For-armchair-driver-Toyot- a-unveils-sofa-wheels--dozens-futuristic-cars-Beijing-motor-show.html
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    edited July 2012
    "Volkswagen's agreement to buy the remaining half of Porsche will result in "pioneering products and technologies," VW said on Monday. VW acquired the remaining stake in Porsche for $5.6 billion, ending one of the most dramatic automotive takeover stories in history.

    The "accelerated integration" of Porsche into the Volkswagen Group is widely seen as a major triumph for VW as it pursues its goal of becoming the world's largest automaker by 2018. Porsche will be fully folded into Volkswagen Group on August 1, joining a growing stable of VW brands from Audi to Ducati."

    Volkswagen and Porsche Hook-Up To Result in "Pioneering Products" (Inside Line)

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    'Yota had the #1 and #3 selling cars in the world as of May 30th.

    So Vee-Dub got some work to do I think.....

    http://ecogeek.org/component/content/article/3775

    Prius Now Third Best-Selling Car in the World
    Written by Megan Treacy on 30/05/12

    If you thought you were seeing Toyota Priuses absolutely everywhere these days, you were right. The hybrid car has gone from a small, niche vehicle to global top-seller in just over a decade.

    High demand in the U.S. and Japanese incentives for domestic vehicles were driving factors in the Prius hitting the third-best selling mark in the first quarter of this year, where Toyota sold 247,230 of the vehicles globally and 86,027 in the U.S. alone. The expansion of the Prius family to include four models of vehicles also drove up sales.

    Number one Toyota Corolla, number two Ford Focus and the rest of the top five best-selling cars were all smaller, fuel-efficient sedans, which shows a global consensus that fuel efficiency is a necessary feature in a car.

    The fact that the Prius has gone from an "alternative vehicle" in 2000 to a full-fledged mainstream car in 2012 means that same evolution is just as achievable for the all-electric models that have hit the market in the past couple of years, especially as charging infrastructure spreads across the country and around the world.


    Not bad for a car called "fugly" and "financially disadvantageous."
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,829
    Sadly when it comes to cars, popularity and ability to be enjoyable aren't related. Kind of like modern popular music and being enjoyable.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I think most Prius owners "enjoy" their cars.

    I know for a FACT they "enjoy" getting 45-60 MPG.

    For certain people, myself included, that's all the joy I need from a car....save me money at the pump and you have my heart..... :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    How many of the 175,000 Prius sold in Japan would have been passed over without the government subsidies. You can even sell a Volt given enough incentives. And to call it a World sales success is stretching it. All but a very few Prius were sold in Japan and USA where real options for fuel savings are few and far between. They don't sell many in the EU where you can get dozens of small cars and big cars that get equally good mileage.

    If VW brings their small diesel PU truck to the USA, Look out. They will have all the bases covered with high mileage vehicles. Some auto makers put numbers ahead of profit. That is not sustainable.

    I have seen a lot of the Wagony looking Prius, and they are still ugly.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    edited July 2012
    I must have missed something - 175k a month or projected for this year? Toyota has sold more than a million Prii in Japan, and ~200,000 in Europe. Worldwide sales since '97 (70 markets) total 2.5 million. (Wikipedia)

    Only 19 million to go to catch up with the VW Beetle/Type 1 (over 65 years).

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,829
    edited July 2012
    Of course they do, it's a tasty flavor of Kool Aid.

    Some people also enjoy raw celery and a weekly treat of vanilla ice milk or maybe a light alcohol-free beer, too. I don't want to be those people, either :shades:

    For most car enthusiasts, there's a lot more to life than mileage. Fuel is still relatively cheap and more power than ever is being wrung out of every cubic centimeter. Everything has a trade-off.

    For me, I would probably have to work my way down to diesel performance before being able to tolerate something like that Toyota.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    You have the experience driving those performance diesels in Germany. Where fuel is at least double the price as the USA. Would you say getting performance, comfort, handling AND good fuel economy trump a rough riding noisy Prius just to brag about being green and getting a few more miles to the gallon?

    Now with VW full owner of Porsche you can have arguably the finest production sports car in the World under the VW Tent. Toyota has NOTHING in the same class.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    I was commenting on Larsb link about first quarter Prius sales. If Toyota sold 247K Prii in all forms and Japan bought 175K of them, that leaves 72k for the USA and the rest of the World. According to the Toyota sales chart for sales through March 2012, US sales of Prius for the quarter was 61k vehicles. That leaves about 11k for the rest of the World. Not a good showing for all the places that have high fuel costs. It should be obvious when given a choice people opt for high mileage diesel cars over the Prius.

    Prius sales more than doubled as Toyota extended the name to a four-model “family” of vehicles at the same time that rebates and tax breaks in Japan are saving buyers the equivalent of $2,500 or more. In the quarter, sales soared to 247,230, trailing only Toyota’s Corolla, at 300,800, and Ford Motor Co. (F)’s 277,000 Focus sales.

    Aqua has become the car of the moment in Japan, helping more than triple Prius family sales in the country to 175,080 in the first quarter, from 52,507 last year. While funds for the rebates may run out in July if the government doesn’t extend them, the tax reductions continue through 2015.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-29/toyota-prius-escapes-niche-to-surge-int- o-global-top-three.html
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    edited July 2012
    Okay, thanks, I got a bit sloppy skimming stuff. All this time I sort of assumed that the US led the world in Prii sales ("typically Toyota’s top market for Prius").

    VW diesel sales are up 33% in the first half of the year in the US. Nice jump (from 32k to 42k cars). The Prii outdid them though. (Autoblog)

    Ford and Honda may as well stick to gassers.

    My wife gave me a bit of grief in good fun tonight for staring wistfully at an early 70's orange SuperBeetle convertible driving by as we sat on our stoop. :shades:

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    There are a couple of VW Things all tricked out in our neighborhood. I keep telling my wife that is what I need. I would say in my neighborhood at least a 3rd of the people have some sort of offroad vehicle and a big toyhauler. Or they have horses. Not sure which is the biggest waste of money. Alfalfa is $25 per bale here.

    I will continue rooting for VW to become number one, then root for some other automaker. Always for the underdog.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    VW is number one in some areas.

    VW: World's Largest Warranty Provider (WarrantyWeek)

    "Thanks to the relative strength of the euro, the relatively higher labor rates and parts costs seen in German cars, and the company's rapid sales growth in China, VW has rather quietly assumed the title of the world's largest warranty provider, shelling out 5.2 billion euro (US$7.25 billion) in calendar 2011 to pay for warranty work worldwide.

    This is a company that has learned to deal with warranty costs that are a little on the high side, and it's apparently not an issue with the customer base either."

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Does Toyota and Honda publish their warranty numbers? Or do they cover them up like they do problems? :P

    VW may have sold the most vehicles last year. Seems there are questions about GM including SAIC numbers to top 9 million sold.

    Thanks to those strong Chinese sales, VW as a company has not had a down year since 2002 in terms of units sold, with the count reaching 8.36 million vehicles sold worldwide in 2011.

    From WSJ:
    GM's rivals also point out that the big U.S. auto maker's numbers are boosted by ownership stakes in China's SAIC Motor Corp. and Liuzhou Wuling Motors Co. While SAIC builds GM cars in China, Wuling's 1.2 million vehicles last year are mostly cheap commercial vehicles used only in China.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    edited July 2012
    I don't think anyone publishes their warranty numbers - what Warranty Week does is to look at corporate financial statements and tries to find out how much money is set aside to handle claims.

    Toyota's numbers are pretty good iirc, but Honda really blows the doors off.

    Can Honda get its mojo back?

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    Or the wannabe number one at least.

    "Chattering among automakers and analysts in Europe and the United States contends VW is using profits earned outside of Europe to subsidize a price war in its local market to buy share from struggling rivals — the familiar road to ruin for Detroit and, to some degree, that Japanese juggernaut called Toyota Motor Corp.

    "VW is using super-normal Chinese profits to subsidize a price war in Europe, and since it operates in the same currency as competitors, it no longer has the old 'natural brake' of a rising Deutschmark to slow its export success."

    Marchionne is right to nail VW on price war (Detroit News)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    Should make anyone thinking of a diesel SUV, head to your VW dealer and get a Porsche Touareg for about $40k less. I do like the looks of the Touareg better than the Cayenne. Italy is just jealous they cannot build a decent car to compete with VW. They should stick to designing and leave the engineering to people that know what they are doing.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    "VW is making impressive profits – a margin of 6.8 per cent in the first half, while its mass market competitors – GM Europe’s Opel-Vauxhall, Ford Europe, Peugeot Citroen and Italy’s Fiat – totter in the face of huge losses."

    VW crushing competitors in Europe with financing edge (Detroit News)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,028
    “We think VW’s market share success is due in large part to the simple fact that its cars are cheaper to own,” said Morgan Stanley analyst Stuart Pearson.

    I think once they get a dealer network that is not your typical arrogant dealership, they will dominate here. That and hiring competent technicians. Basic shade tree mechanics need not apply.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    edited October 2012
    "Most likely, that seven-seater will also be bigger than the Touareg, but our guess is that mpg requirements are going to force the new SUV off the platform the Touareg shares with the Porsche Cayenne. Even in their lighter second-generation form (the Audi Q7 is still on the original leaden 1.0 architecture), the Touareg and Cayenne remain heavy for their size. Instead, we expect the new vehicle to be of the large-ish crossover persuasion and share its architecture and assembly line with the U.S.-market Passat."

    Volkswagen Building 7-Seat SUV for America (Inside Line)

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,863
    edited October 2012
    VW has been hinting at this for months. The consensus is that it's definitely going to be based on the US Passat and built in Chattanooga. It wouldn't be profitable to base it on the Toureg and build it overseas.
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