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Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?

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  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Surprisingly, the Mazda 6 is was until this year and Mitsubushi has a few as well...

    I forgot about those two. But weren't both of them joint ventures so the union had to come in?? Mazda at Flat Rock with Ford and Mitsubishi at Normal with Chrysler?

    It seems none of the stand alone transplants are unionized. Heck even when Chrysler was part of MB, Daimler managed to keep Alabama non-union even though the union in Germany wanted to see it unionized.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Fun YouTube tour of the VW factory in Dresden.

    VW Transparent Factory
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "BERLIN (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG will probably become the world's biggest carmaker this year, vaulting past Toyota Motor Corp. and General Motors Co. on gains in emerging markets.

    VW Group's sales, third among carmakers in 2010, will probably rise 13 percent to 8.1 million vehicles this year, based on the average of three analysts surveyed by Bloomberg.

    GM sales will gain about 8 percent to 7.55 million, while Toyota will drop 9 percent to 7.27 million, according to the survey.

    Volkswagen sales in China may rise almost 20 percent this year and more than double in India, according to estimates at researcher J.D. Power & Associates.

    That's a contrast to Toyota, which is suspending plants in Southeast Asia because of floods in Thailand, months after an earthquake crippled production in Japan.

    "Emerging markets are at a stage of car-adoption by consumers and there is still a large space for sales to grow. said Jenny Gu, Shanghai-based senior markets analyst for J.D. Power. ''VW realized this and put a lot of effort on emerging markets.''

    Estimates at J.D. Power, IHS Automotive and PwC Autofacts were used to calculate the average projections.
    Next year's lead

    Toyota may regain the lead from VW next year as the recovery of the Japanese company's facilities from the March earthquake will pave the way for Toyota to sell 8.4 million cars, or half a million units more than VW, according to research firm IHS.

    J.D. Power projects VW will retain its lead in 2012, outselling Toyota by about 50,000 units.

    VW, which also owns the Audi and Skoda brands, focused on boosting capacity and its network of dealerships as it built its brand in markets such as China and India, Gu said.

    Automakers are turning to developing economies for growth as sales in mature markets slow.

    China is already the biggest auto market globally, with sales exceeding 18 million in 2010. VW sales in China will probably reach 2.3 million units and 116,000 in India this year, with the two markets accounting for about a third of the company's sales, according to J.D. Power estimates.
    Record investments

    VW, which operates more than 60 factories worldwide, plans to spend a record 62.4 billion euros ($87 billion) -- excluding its ventures in China -- over the next five years to raise annual production to 10 million by 2018.

    VW's Chinese joint ventures, which are not consolidated, will invest another 14 billion euros through 2016.

    The German company may reach the target three years ahead of schedule, according to a person familiar with the matter. The company has forecast its global sales will increase 5 percent this year after posting a record 7.2 million deliveries in 2010.

    VW's Audi luxury unit overtook Mercedes Benz as the world's second-largest maker of high-end vehicles earlier this year, trailing only BMW.

    First in China

    VW, the first overseas carmaker to enter China three decades ago, is planning to add two plants and double production to 3 million cars annually.

    Audi is considering a new factory there to expand annual manufacturing to as high as 700,000 vehicles by 2015 as luxury demand increases, Dietmar Voggenreiter, its China president said on Oct. 20.

    Still, VW faces hurdles with its partnership with Japanese carmaker Suzuki Motor Corp., whose venture in India is the top seller in the market.

    The German carmaker is also facing delays in a planned merger with Porsche SE. Suzuki is seeking to end an alliance with its German partner after accusing it of violating a cooperation agreement by not sharing technology. VW has said it plans to keep its stake.

    Ending the partnership with Suzuki would undermine the German automaker's credit assessment, Moody's Investors Service said in a statement today.

    Toyota would be relinquishing its lead after last year's record recalls, which has led President Akio Toyoda to say his key priorities will be focusing on customer satisfaction and restoring Toyota's reputation.

    Back-to-back disasters

    Toyota temporarily halted all its plants to assess the impact of the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

    Seven months later, the automaker is facing factory closures across Southeast Asia, triggered by Thailand's worst floods in half a century. Toyota's shortfalls paves the way for GM, the biggest U.S. automaker, to gain market share.

    GM is relying on sales in developing nations including China, Brazil and India for growth in the future, CEO Dan Akerson said Sept. 21.

    GM, which makes Buick and Chevrolet-branded sedans with Chinese partner SAIC Motor Co., sells more cars in China than in its home market. Sales in the nation has topped 2 million vehicles in 2011, the carmaker said on Oct. 17.

    Growth in the global auto market will probably accelerate next year, rising 6.5 percent in 2012 after expanding 3.5 percent this year, according to estimates at Moody's Investors Service."
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Wonder where they'd be without all the natural disasters hitting Toyota?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    We'll find out in 2012, but my guess is that Toyota is slipping, even if you factor in the disasters. The same can be said for Honda. It's about product, and GM, VW and others have gotten more competitive. Toyota and Honda seemed invincible not too long ago, but their competitors have closed the gap. I wouldn't count Toyota and Honda out, because they could prove to be resilient, but it's hardly a forgone conclusion that they'll reclaim their positions.

    Let's see how the '12 camry is received, and how competitive the next Corolla is. At Honda, we should observe how quickly they correct the new Civic's demerits, and how well the '13 Accord compares with the competition.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think the key is VW has World class cars and Toyota only has US class cars. I don't see Toyota making huge inroads into China. They still don't like Japan. Without the Chinese market you cannot be number one in the World.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    New jetta must be selling well, upped the base price $500 in one year.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think the key is VW has World class cars and Toyota only has US class cars

    Personally, I don't think VW has anywhere near world class reliability. I think there may be a different factor playing in their favor in China - the Chinese hate the Japanese.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think VW and Skoda both have a very good reputation in the EU. The Golf is top rated in Europe for reliability in its class.

    I believe there is still a lot of animosity toward Japan by the Chinese. Also VW has been building and selling cars in China for over 30 years. Where Toyota threw all their eggs into the USA basket and now we are a declining market as China is a growing market. Last projection I read was 18 million for China this year. I doubt we ever match our peak of 2000 when we bought 17.4 million new vehicles.

    Add to that VW builds the only diesel cars that are affordable to the average US buyer. If they get their reliability on track they will continue their record gains over the last few years. Toyota now has competition from Ford and GM for appliance type cars.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited October 2011
    Beat out the Camry and Sonata.

    Looks like a pretty impressive care for 20k. And yes, I know that's the manual, but that's what I prefer anyway....

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1110_2012_mazda3_skyactiv_g_first_tes- t/
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    But remember, it's the newest and buff magazines usually gravitate to that. I've actually heard a few VW drivers lament that it is losing its German identity.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I've actually heard a few VW drivers lament that it is losing its German identity.

    That's because it's no longer a German car. It was designed for the American market. The old Passat (B6) was never a big seller as it was too expensive and too European.

    The recently Americanized Jetta is selling well. VW NA hopes the same the Passat.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    VW sold 444,192 cars in the US last year (including Audi, Bentley and Lamborghini sales). They think 500k is within reach this year.

    Volkswagen eyes 2012 US sales above 500,000 cars (indiatimes.com)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've now seen several new Passat's - Big Yawn! The base 5 cylinder engine, something not talked about much in the press, is the same agrarian powerplant used a decade ago, and it shows.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Buying the Passat with anything but the diesel seems silly to me. You are right about that 5 cylinder engine. I have driven cars with it. Just does not get it. Not in a league with the TDI. And not very good mileage.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Volkswagen AG's namesake brand sold 27,209, a 48% increase for its best January performance since 1974, according to the company. VW announced yesterday that it was adding 200 jobs to its Chattanooga, Tenn., plant to meet expanded demand."

    January U.S. Auto Sales Jump (WSJ)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "But like other carmakers, Europe's economic slowdown continues to be a drag on Volkswagen.

    "VW has previously highlighted the need to provision for price competition in Europe, which suggests the market in Europe continues to be difficult," said Mr Tyndall."

    (Translation - annual profits were great but the 4th quarter wasn't so hot).

    Volkswagen annual profits double to 15.8bn euros (BBC)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Did any of the other Carmakers come close in profit. How many cars did GM and Toyota sell in 2011?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    From the looks of the Beijing Auto show, VW is headed in the right direction and Toyota, well you tell me.

    Do you want a Toyota powered couch or a VW Beetle convertible EV? Are our Auto shows in the USA this elaborate with 2000 companies represented?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2137302/For-armchair-driver-Toyot- a-unveils-sofa-wheels--dozens-futuristic-cars-Beijing-motor-show.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    "Volkswagen's agreement to buy the remaining half of Porsche will result in "pioneering products and technologies," VW said on Monday. VW acquired the remaining stake in Porsche for $5.6 billion, ending one of the most dramatic automotive takeover stories in history.

    The "accelerated integration" of Porsche into the Volkswagen Group is widely seen as a major triumph for VW as it pursues its goal of becoming the world's largest automaker by 2018. Porsche will be fully folded into Volkswagen Group on August 1, joining a growing stable of VW brands from Audi to Ducati."

    Volkswagen and Porsche Hook-Up To Result in "Pioneering Products" (Inside Line)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    'Yota had the #1 and #3 selling cars in the world as of May 30th.

    So Vee-Dub got some work to do I think.....

    http://ecogeek.org/component/content/article/3775

    Prius Now Third Best-Selling Car in the World
    Written by Megan Treacy on 30/05/12

    If you thought you were seeing Toyota Priuses absolutely everywhere these days, you were right. The hybrid car has gone from a small, niche vehicle to global top-seller in just over a decade.

    High demand in the U.S. and Japanese incentives for domestic vehicles were driving factors in the Prius hitting the third-best selling mark in the first quarter of this year, where Toyota sold 247,230 of the vehicles globally and 86,027 in the U.S. alone. The expansion of the Prius family to include four models of vehicles also drove up sales.

    Number one Toyota Corolla, number two Ford Focus and the rest of the top five best-selling cars were all smaller, fuel-efficient sedans, which shows a global consensus that fuel efficiency is a necessary feature in a car.

    The fact that the Prius has gone from an "alternative vehicle" in 2000 to a full-fledged mainstream car in 2012 means that same evolution is just as achievable for the all-electric models that have hit the market in the past couple of years, especially as charging infrastructure spreads across the country and around the world.


    Not bad for a car called "fugly" and "financially disadvantageous."
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Sadly when it comes to cars, popularity and ability to be enjoyable aren't related. Kind of like modern popular music and being enjoyable.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I think most Prius owners "enjoy" their cars.

    I know for a FACT they "enjoy" getting 45-60 MPG.

    For certain people, myself included, that's all the joy I need from a car....save me money at the pump and you have my heart..... :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How many of the 175,000 Prius sold in Japan would have been passed over without the government subsidies. You can even sell a Volt given enough incentives. And to call it a World sales success is stretching it. All but a very few Prius were sold in Japan and USA where real options for fuel savings are few and far between. They don't sell many in the EU where you can get dozens of small cars and big cars that get equally good mileage.

    If VW brings their small diesel PU truck to the USA, Look out. They will have all the bases covered with high mileage vehicles. Some auto makers put numbers ahead of profit. That is not sustainable.

    I have seen a lot of the Wagony looking Prius, and they are still ugly.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    I must have missed something - 175k a month or projected for this year? Toyota has sold more than a million Prii in Japan, and ~200,000 in Europe. Worldwide sales since '97 (70 markets) total 2.5 million. (Wikipedia)

    Only 19 million to go to catch up with the VW Beetle/Type 1 (over 65 years).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited July 2012
    Of course they do, it's a tasty flavor of Kool Aid.

    Some people also enjoy raw celery and a weekly treat of vanilla ice milk or maybe a light alcohol-free beer, too. I don't want to be those people, either :shades:

    For most car enthusiasts, there's a lot more to life than mileage. Fuel is still relatively cheap and more power than ever is being wrung out of every cubic centimeter. Everything has a trade-off.

    For me, I would probably have to work my way down to diesel performance before being able to tolerate something like that Toyota.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You have the experience driving those performance diesels in Germany. Where fuel is at least double the price as the USA. Would you say getting performance, comfort, handling AND good fuel economy trump a rough riding noisy Prius just to brag about being green and getting a few more miles to the gallon?

    Now with VW full owner of Porsche you can have arguably the finest production sports car in the World under the VW Tent. Toyota has NOTHING in the same class.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was commenting on Larsb link about first quarter Prius sales. If Toyota sold 247K Prii in all forms and Japan bought 175K of them, that leaves 72k for the USA and the rest of the World. According to the Toyota sales chart for sales through March 2012, US sales of Prius for the quarter was 61k vehicles. That leaves about 11k for the rest of the World. Not a good showing for all the places that have high fuel costs. It should be obvious when given a choice people opt for high mileage diesel cars over the Prius.

    Prius sales more than doubled as Toyota extended the name to a four-model “family” of vehicles at the same time that rebates and tax breaks in Japan are saving buyers the equivalent of $2,500 or more. In the quarter, sales soared to 247,230, trailing only Toyota’s Corolla, at 300,800, and Ford Motor Co. (F)’s 277,000 Focus sales.

    Aqua has become the car of the moment in Japan, helping more than triple Prius family sales in the country to 175,080 in the first quarter, from 52,507 last year. While funds for the rebates may run out in July if the government doesn’t extend them, the tax reductions continue through 2015.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-29/toyota-prius-escapes-niche-to-surge-int- o-global-top-three.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    Okay, thanks, I got a bit sloppy skimming stuff. All this time I sort of assumed that the US led the world in Prii sales ("typically Toyota’s top market for Prius").

    VW diesel sales are up 33% in the first half of the year in the US. Nice jump (from 32k to 42k cars). The Prii outdid them though. (Autoblog)

    Ford and Honda may as well stick to gassers.

    My wife gave me a bit of grief in good fun tonight for staring wistfully at an early 70's orange SuperBeetle convertible driving by as we sat on our stoop. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There are a couple of VW Things all tricked out in our neighborhood. I keep telling my wife that is what I need. I would say in my neighborhood at least a 3rd of the people have some sort of offroad vehicle and a big toyhauler. Or they have horses. Not sure which is the biggest waste of money. Alfalfa is $25 per bale here.

    I will continue rooting for VW to become number one, then root for some other automaker. Always for the underdog.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    VW is number one in some areas.

    VW: World's Largest Warranty Provider (WarrantyWeek)

    "Thanks to the relative strength of the euro, the relatively higher labor rates and parts costs seen in German cars, and the company's rapid sales growth in China, VW has rather quietly assumed the title of the world's largest warranty provider, shelling out 5.2 billion euro (US$7.25 billion) in calendar 2011 to pay for warranty work worldwide.

    This is a company that has learned to deal with warranty costs that are a little on the high side, and it's apparently not an issue with the customer base either."
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Does Toyota and Honda publish their warranty numbers? Or do they cover them up like they do problems? :P

    VW may have sold the most vehicles last year. Seems there are questions about GM including SAIC numbers to top 9 million sold.

    Thanks to those strong Chinese sales, VW as a company has not had a down year since 2002 in terms of units sold, with the count reaching 8.36 million vehicles sold worldwide in 2011.

    From WSJ:
    GM's rivals also point out that the big U.S. auto maker's numbers are boosted by ownership stakes in China's SAIC Motor Corp. and Liuzhou Wuling Motors Co. While SAIC builds GM cars in China, Wuling's 1.2 million vehicles last year are mostly cheap commercial vehicles used only in China.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    I don't think anyone publishes their warranty numbers - what Warranty Week does is to look at corporate financial statements and tries to find out how much money is set aside to handle claims.

    Toyota's numbers are pretty good iirc, but Honda really blows the doors off.

    Can Honda get its mojo back?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Or the wannabe number one at least.

    "Chattering among automakers and analysts in Europe and the United States contends VW is using profits earned outside of Europe to subsidize a price war in its local market to buy share from struggling rivals — the familiar road to ruin for Detroit and, to some degree, that Japanese juggernaut called Toyota Motor Corp.

    "VW is using super-normal Chinese profits to subsidize a price war in Europe, and since it operates in the same currency as competitors, it no longer has the old 'natural brake' of a rising Deutschmark to slow its export success."

    Marchionne is right to nail VW on price war (Detroit News)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Should make anyone thinking of a diesel SUV, head to your VW dealer and get a Porsche Touareg for about $40k less. I do like the looks of the Touareg better than the Cayenne. Italy is just jealous they cannot build a decent car to compete with VW. They should stick to designing and leave the engineering to people that know what they are doing.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "VW is making impressive profits – a margin of 6.8 per cent in the first half, while its mass market competitors – GM Europe’s Opel-Vauxhall, Ford Europe, Peugeot Citroen and Italy’s Fiat – totter in the face of huge losses."

    VW crushing competitors in Europe with financing edge (Detroit News)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    “We think VW’s market share success is due in large part to the simple fact that its cars are cheaper to own,” said Morgan Stanley analyst Stuart Pearson.

    I think once they get a dealer network that is not your typical arrogant dealership, they will dominate here. That and hiring competent technicians. Basic shade tree mechanics need not apply.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    "Most likely, that seven-seater will also be bigger than the Touareg, but our guess is that mpg requirements are going to force the new SUV off the platform the Touareg shares with the Porsche Cayenne. Even in their lighter second-generation form (the Audi Q7 is still on the original leaden 1.0 architecture), the Touareg and Cayenne remain heavy for their size. Instead, we expect the new vehicle to be of the large-ish crossover persuasion and share its architecture and assembly line with the U.S.-market Passat."

    Volkswagen Building 7-Seat SUV for America (Inside Line)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited October 2012
    VW has been hinting at this for months. The consensus is that it's definitely going to be based on the US Passat and built in Chattanooga. It wouldn't be profitable to base it on the Toureg and build it overseas.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Looks like they have the platform for it now, although the concept at the NY auto show was wagony. (Inside Line)

    image
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The All Track was shown at NY - I don't know why. The 7 seat crossover is what really sells in America and that's what's expected from VW.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Volkswagen is destined for its best sales year since 1973," said Krebs.

    Volkswagen said in a statement that over 25 percent of its U.S. dealerships were affected by Hurricane Sandy."

    U.S. Auto Sales Relatively Healthy, Despite Hurricane Sandy's Toll (Inside Line)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The Volkswagen brand had its best year since 1973, selling 438,133 vehicles, including more than 117,000 Passat cars built in Chattanooga, Tenn., and 170,424 Jettas.

    Audi brand sales totaled 139,310 vehicles, a 68 percent increase since 2009. Bentley and Bugatti also reported higher sales."

    VW Group posts record U.S. sales in 2012 (Detroit News)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    "Volkswagen joins a growing roster of foreign and United States automakers that are struggling in Europe, where car sales dropped 10 percent during the first quarter, including double-digit decreases in France, Germany and Spain.

    Most automakers are banking on surging sales in the United States to offset some of these losses.

    And VW’s chairman, Martin Winterkorn, cautioned that the company expected little improvement any time soon in Europe."

    Even VW Now Feels the Weight of Europe’s Economic Troubles (NY Times)

    What a difference a quarter makes.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Only reason sales are good in the US is creative subprime auto loans. Average auto loan in the USA is $486 per month on 84 month loan. That is unsustainable. Look for another crash when the foreclosed cars start coming in.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited April 2013
    The average auto loan is 84 months? Huh? Where did that come from? I haven't seen any credible economic analysis equating subprime car loans to the mortgage disaster,either. There's no manipulated bubble for new car pricing, and cars can be repossessed a lot easier than houses. Even if it does sputter, this can't and won't cause a crash. And I'll wager it won't even sputter. People will put off a lot to keep their car. Worst thing it will do is maybe delay future sales as terms are longer (but more like 65 months rather than 84)

    A big reason sales are up is because they were low for many quarters, and the fleet is getting old and worn.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM is offering loans on new cars over the MSRP to cover the trade-in. While out on the road I heard this financial guy Dave Ramsey, and that was his statement of 84 month loans and $486 payments.

    Welcome to the start of the next subprime crisis: Subprime auto loans.

    The Auto Subprime Bubble
    Banks have once again cast a greedy eye to the lower middle class - who are already leveraged up to their collective eyeballs. This demographic, call it the "easy prey class," is being targeted for auto loans at usurious prices, in most cases north of 20%.

    Reuters recently reported the all-too-familiar story of a school bus driver in Alabama who fell into precisely this trap.

    Jeffrey Nelson, of Jasper, AL, had one car repossessed, along with serious medical bills. His credit history was checkered indeed.

    Yet, he was able to put up his Mossberg shotgun, worth about $700, along with $300 in cash, to come up with the $1,000 down payment that Maloy Chrysler Dodge Jeep said was needed to get him behind the wheel.

    The car was not flashy - it was Japanese and had four wheels. According to Reuters, Nelson took out a $10,294 loan to buy a 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara.

    But that $10,294 loan carried a sky-high interest rate, at 21.9%. The true cost was over $12,500.


    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40186.html
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How the Next Subprime Bubble is Forming

    A riskier loan means a higher yield for speculators, so they're loading up on the riskiest tranches. In most cases, after demand works itself out and drives yields south of 2%, two-year subprime auto ABSs yield 1%.

    That looks very attractive compared with 0.5% on prime auto loan ABSs and 0.3% on two-year Treasuries.

    Investors can't get enough of these subprime ABSs, so the market for them has grown.

    And grown...

    And grown...

    From 2011 through today, close to $36 billion worth of these securities have been sold on the market. Just this week, a few Wall Street banks announced a subprime auto loan securities deal worth $1.6 billion.

    And on and on it goes until the music stops, just like it did in 2008. Just like the toxic mortgage-backed securities of the last decade, these are spreading all over, and spreading fast.

    As with nearly all the I-can't-believe-this-is-legal financial shenanigans, you have the Federal Reserve to thank for it.

    Ever since QE Infinity, when the Fed took interest rates to near zero, investors large and small have been clamoring for something - anything ­- with a yield above, well, zero.


    http://moneymorning.com/2013/04/25/welcome-to-the-next-subprime-bubble/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited April 2013
    Both of those links seem to do nothing more than parrot the Reuters piece. The key to which is this line from the original piece:

    "A bust in the subprime auto market wouldn't have consequences nearly as devastating for lenders, investors or the broader economy as the housing bust did."

    Ramsay is entertaining, but I wouldn't stake my future in him. The average car loan is not near 84 months. Loans above MSRP are nothing new. High risk high interest financing has existed longer than I have - of course there will be more in it during socio-economic decay that is greater than at any time since I have been around.
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