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Comments
Going 0 to 60 in 6 seconds does not constitute a sports car. Nissan has in some ways lost its way...
1995 Max was better handling car then 09 Max
Older Sentra's (SER versions) were better then current Sentra
I would go as far as saying that my 1995 Infiniti G20 with a 4 cylinder, 140 hp corners much better then 2009 Maxima. Maxima does have lot of raw power (to propel it in a streight line) compare to G20...but on twisties it cannot dance like relatively underpowered G20 (a light weight cars).
Having said that 09 Nissan is better then the car it replaces.
Comparing it to a buick is little far out there...However it remains a bloated car with an exceptional interior and good creature comforts....
I don't believe either of you have really driven this 2009 Maxima.... I'll bet you haven't even driven the Sport model. Or better yet driven the vehicle in Ds mode...
This car is by far the best 4dsc Nissan has ever put out. It is a 100 times friendlier user than a BMW 5 series....
Listen everyone has a opinion but I think your just being biased :sick:
To who ever owns one congratulations. Enjoy :shades:
GP
1. If you had read habitat's previous few posts in this forum you would have learned that he had driven the new maxima while his old one was in for servicing.
2. Stop claiming that the maxima is a "4dsc" because it simply is not. It is overweight with a front wheel drive layout and without an option for a manual transmission.
3. Don't claim that the people who disagree with you are biased, but then yourself state "This car is by far the best 4dsc Nissan has ever put out. It is a 100 times friendlier user than a BMW 5 series...." I really hope you have test driven the 5 series extensively so you can make that statement. I also hope that you have driven "older" maxima's as well since this would help in determining which is "by far the best."
I am currently looking for G20 replacement and Maxima was one of the choices. I dont have to, nor do I want to convince you that I test drove the car. What I said was just my OPINION.
Listen everyone has a opinion but I think your just being biased
You probably are right..I am biased because I had better expectations from Nissan. Specially after what they have done with Altima, Infiniti Division, Brought skyline to USA...so I thought 4DSC will family sports car.
We have owned several Nissan (Original Sentra SE-R, First gen Altima, G20, J30, first gen Q45, and 2000 I30 (essentially a max clone). Of all these cars 2000 I30 was the worst handling-good highway cruiser car
2009 Max is leagues above 2000 I30, but as I said it cannot touch earlier Max/Nissans.
If I was in the market for a FWD family sports car in 35K range I probably would consider Max a good buy for what it is...Not for what it pretends to be
Also please read relatively lukewarm (from drivers perspective) driving impressions in current issue of Car and Driver...and contrast it with 95 Max review of same car in the same mag in which they compare it to BMW (per habitat1)
I think I am digressing so will refrain from any more posting on this topic.
Lots of earlier discussions about comparing older Maxima's to the new generation Maxima (performance, styling, etc...) Yet, one item not in the discussion is how much safety features have improved over the years.
Example: Morgan Freeman's unfortunate accident in a 1997 Maxima which left him with broken bones. I wonder what the extent of his injuries would have been had he been in a 2009 Maxima with all of those extra air bags and more body rigidity!!
Given that I currently I drive (or my kids mostly drive) a 1997 Maxima, I'm left to ponder this safety question. Of course, I'm sure my kids would be more than fine for good ole' dad to do the safety upgrade for them:)
Just bought the SV w/ premium and tech and I love it. They're throwing in a free spoiler and now I'm not so sure I want it. Does the spoiler decrease the MPG b/c it increases drag? And is there a way to remove it so that it doesn't leave a mark?
Thanks in advance.
I have driven quite a few of them...
I also hope that you have driven "older" maxima's as well since this would help in determining which is "by far the best."
I have been selling Nissan for 6 years and feel confident on my comment.
I appreciate you keeping me honest :shades:
GP
Once it is in it is in. They screw it in. :sick:
GP
I think it's U that is missing the point. I would NEVER call my old 1995 Maxima SE a "true sports car". I've had a Honda S2000 and Porsche 911S in the meantime and I certainly know the difference between a sports car and a sport sedan..
But, by the same token, "sporty" has become a silly, meaningless term. Slap a non-functional spoiler and 18" wheels on any underengineered piece of crap car and someone will call it "sporty".
My issue is with substance. In 1995, the Maxima was three rungs above of any other FWD mid size sedan produced by Japan in terms of overall performance and driving dynamics. That included the V6 Camry, Accord, TL and ES, Mazda 626, etc. And it offered a proper manual transmission for those who didn't want to make fake shifting noises, but actually enjoyed DRIVING and having complete control of the transmission. The 1995 Maxima, was good enough that, even with a FWD platform, it held its own against the RWD 328i, the benchmark of driving dynamics.
Today, every friggin $25k+ sedan from Japan is called "sporty". And, unfortunately, the Maxima isn't any better than most of them in substance. It pissed away a significant competitive advantage and leadership position - along with about 65% of it's former sales volume - trying to out Avalon an Avalon. Or out ES an ES. Or out "friendly" a BMW. :confuse:
In any event, if you want to call the Maxima a "sporty" family sedan, it would be fruitless for me to try to deter you. But please don't try to put it in the "sport sedan" category. The transmission alone is disqualification.
Backup camera....
- Premium package gets you a backup camera (regardless of whether or not you get the Tech/Navi package
- Tech/Navi package gets you the rear view camera (along with the Navi and 9.3 Gb harddrive to store your music files).
- Both these packages provide an auxillary audio/video jacks to display DVDs on the 7" color screen on the front console.
I've seen conflicting information regarding "required" use of premium fuel.
Thanks.
I was considering purchasing a Lexus GS350 a few weeks ago. As part of the "sales pitch", they introduced me to the Lexus head mechanic as I often ask very technical questions during my purchasing process. If you ever want to stump a sales person, just ask him a simple question of "how do you change the oil filter and where is it"? Deer in the headlights comes to mind with most sales guys. If they answer that question, ask them how to upgrade Navi system? The answer to this question gets a bit harder when you have a hard disk Navi system like the Maxima (vs a DVD-based Navi). Bet most folks didn't know that the Navi in the Maxima is actually a 30Gb harddrive - capable of adding 10Gb more of POIs over time. That's one of the big advantages of hard disk vs. DVD based Navi's.
Anyways, I asked him about changing Octane levels - based on driving demands and gas prices:-) He strongly suggested I not do that as a car's octane sensor is not fast enough to continuously be checking octane levels with each different gas tank. It "learns" the octane levels over several tanks of gas and adjusts engine timing accordingly.
Finally, I took the plunge and picked the Nissan Maxima over the GS 350. After I've had more time with the car, I'll do a review. So far, I LOVE this car!!!
Next time, you might want to ask "how does a 3,600 lb FWD Nissan Maxima with a 62/38 front weight bias overcome its torque steer, corner plowing and handling imbalance compared to a nearly ideal 50/50 balanced RWD GS350".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Lexus and have never owned one. But when I came across the "four door sports car" debate/discussion in this forum, I had to keep my laughter under control. The Maxima may have a nice 30Gb navigation system with a million points of interest. But it offers hardly a single point of interest to someone serious about a driver oriented sport sedan. Not that the GS350 is much competition for a 535i, but at least they power the correct wheels.
P.S. Regarding octane, sounds like the Lexus mechanic needs to go back to elementary school. The octane sensor can and does adjust the timing instantaneously. It doesn't need to "learn" over several tanks of gas. If it did, all the damage would be done to a high performance engine after 500+ miles of pinging away. Even a Lexus mechanic should know that.
What he should have told you was that at a 4-5% difference in cost (15-20 cents a gallon in my area), you would be a financial idiot to put regular octane gas in a high compression engine designed to extract the maximum performance (MPG and acceleration) out of premium octane gas. You will lose at least a similar percentage in fuel efficiency, completely offsetting your savings - and, in the case of high performance engines, risk other long term problems.
I think you were too kind in using the "financial" qualifier.
At 156,000 miles, my 1995 Maxima is still capable of 0-60 in under 7 seconds, has averaged 24.2 miles per gallon over 14 years and the engine compression is "within new car tolerances" according to the dealer who tested it last year. In addition to changing the oil/filter every 4,000 miles, I have never considered using anything but the recommended premium fuel.
If, as Forest Gump would say, "stupid is as stupid does", you can't get much dumber than buying a $30k+ car and putting cheap, lower octane gas in it that forces the engine management computer to retard the timing to keep it from knocking. Maybe Nissan needs to come up with computer that "un-retards" the owner.
BTW, I also own a 1997 Maxima and have had similar luck with the engine staying great over 150K. Most reliable car I've ever owned! Its actually the MAIN REASON I decided to stick with a Maxima, rather than going with a higher end luxury brand vehicle. If the 09 Maxima is even "close" to this car in long-term quality, I'll feel blessed. M35 was my first choice, but I couldn't get over the poor gas mileage. I hope that gets fixed in 09 with the new 7-speed transmission.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If Nissan made a 3,200 lb 6 speed manual SE Maxima that had the fit and finish and fun to drive feel of my 1995, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
The problem: My old Maxima seats 5 (fairly large) adults reasonably snugly, but relatively comfortably, in a pinch. I saw the '09 in the showroom, and it looks and feels like a true 4 seater. Anybody have any thoughts about whether I should look for something else, and if so, what?
Two options:
Avalon. That was the choice of a friend for his wife who could care less about sporty performance/handling, but wanted a car that could carry 5 adults reasonably comfortably. And, as a former Maxima SE 5-speed owner, he would claim that the automatic Avalon is nearly as much of a "4-door sports car" as the current CVT only Maxima. Meaning that neither are, so no loss.
Pre-owned Mercedes S Class: Another friend of mine picked up a pristine loaded 2004 S500 4-Matic with 31k miles for $32,000 and then paid $3,000 for an extended warranty giving him an additional 4+ years and 50k miles. At $35k total for a car that looks and drives like new (and originally stickered for over $85k), that is one heck of a deal that I will seriously consider next time around.
Do u want new or used?
What's your top price you want to pay?
Let me assume since you looked at the Max and talked about a MB S Class that you don't care if its FWD or RWD...
Check out the Acrua TL the current model is a great car, sporty, looks good, handles well, gets good MPG and holds its value well. This is really the only competetion the new Max has since they are both FWD sporty sedans.
RWD, look at the Infiniti G35 Sedan, but for 09 it gets the 3.7 liter 330 hp engine from the coupe, u can't go wrong there at all.
BMW 335i the twin Turbo engine is a blast to drive, gets good mileage for the engine output.
The current S class is a great car but you need to wonder why is a 85K car selling for 32K with only 31K mileage... There relaiblity hasn't been all that good the las 5 yrs or so and even with the extended warrenty you are covered, but if the car is in the shop for little things then you aren't enjoying your purchase..
You dont want an avalon! This car is amazing to drive and you will regret it if you dont buy. I went over my budget by 5k but after owning the car for 2 months now it was worth every penny.
If you don't mind my asking, what was the ballpark on the ES350?
FWD vs. RWD - This comparison has changed dramatically since I bought my 1995 Maxima SE. It weighed 3,000 lbs and was about 58/42 front biased. The current Maxima is 3,600+/- lbs and, I believe, about 62/38 front biased. Somewhere over the last 14 years, the Max became way too heavy for a "sporty" FWD feel. I'm not even particularly happy with the handling of my 2004 Acura TL 6-speed, which is 150+ lbs lighter than the current Maxima, has a stiffer/tighter sport suspension, better weight distribution and exceptional Brembo brakes.
In addition, the previous advantage of FWD in terms of poor weather traction has been virtually eliminated by the manufacturers putting 17-18" high performance summer tires on the "sporty" versions of the TL, Maxima and others. My TL is a disaster in snow, compared to my old Maxima. A S500 4-Matic would run circles around a new Maxima in any conditions, as would any AWD variant of the 3/5 series, G35, GS, etc. Even a neighbor's RWD 530i equiped with all season tires is better in the snow than my TL with high performance tires. That's a lesson I won't need to learn again.
IMO, FWD in a 3,500+ lb vehicle should be against the law, at least if it comes in combination with 18 inch performance tires and 275+ horsepower.
As for S class resale values, none of the "big" cars hold their value very well. The 7 series and A8 aren't any better and even the LS is the worst Lexus in terms of resale. The old Infiniti Q was a massive depreciation black hole. But in the case of Mercedes, in my area, they are leased by the thousands by doctors, lawyers and lobbyists and turned in by the droves at 4 years. And now with the new S550 out, the dealers are willing to practically give away a car that may not have the latest techno gadgets, but still has 80%+ of it's functional life left.
You've confused me with someone else regarding that post.
However, anyone that would pay MSRP for a Maxima is nuts, IMO. And to that extent, maybe I am a good negotiator, or simply not a sucker. I bought a 2002 Honda S2000 for $1k under sticker when the Edmunds "Fair Market Value" was showing $3,800 premium for my area, a $6,000 premium in California. I bought a special order 2004 Acura TL 6-speed right after the new model was introduced - for $1,000 over invoice and roughly $2,800 off MSRP, when the dealers were asking full sticker. I bought a 2005 911 S Cabriolet a few months after the new 997 model was introduced - and at the height of the economy/stock market - for $10,000 off MSRP when all 4 Washington DC area dealers claimed $1,000 off was the most they could do. Lesson: Don't listen to sales people, take your check to the boss.
Nissan isn't Porsche and the Maxima isn't a hand built limited production S2000. Some dealers may be banking that the new Maxima is their short term opportunity to make up for lost time and trying to charge MSRP. But that will end very quickly, IMO. The sticker I saw on the 2009 Maxima was north of $37k. That is an absurd price for a car that has lost all of its driving enthusaist appeal, IMO. Let's look at a quick historical comparison:
1995:
Maxima SE 5-speed = $21,500 (my actual price)
BMW 540i 6-speed= $48,420 (base MSRP, no options)
2008/9:
Maxima SV "Sport/Technology/Do-Dad supreme" CVT = $37,500+/-
BMW 535i 6-speed = $49,200 (base MSRP; includes 4 year maintenance)
In 14 years, the price of a Maxima has nearly doubled, while the enthusiast appeal has diminished, thanks to a rubber band CVT transmission, bloated curb weight on a FWD platform and American (v.s Japanese built) fit and finish. Over that same 14 years, BMW performance, fit and finish and reliability have all improved dramatically. The fuel efficient 535i 6-speed outperforms the old M5, let alone the 540i 6-speed and the relative price for that improved performance has gone up by next to nothing over 14 years.
I'm not suggesting that someone stuggling to afford $37k jump up to a $50k BMW, but hell, you can still get some damn nice Japanese sedans for $25k or under. The Maxima really doesn't offer anything that they don't in driving dynamics - just more do-dads.
I will put up the keys to my TL and 911S that I would be able to negotiate a "near invoice" price on a Maxima in 4 months or less from now. But it wouldn't matter - it would still be a gross overpayment for a car that I wouldn't find as much fun to drive as rowing through the gears of my 1995 Maxima.
Absolutely love the car. I test drove both the Lexus and Max..The max had the revved up sound (something suitable for a teenager) and had better cornering (If thats what you are looking for). The ES was extremely quite but has a FEW less horses..Don't think this matters unless you are out to race the car..
1995:
Maxima SE 5-speed = $21,500 (my actual price)
BMW 540i 6-speed= $48,420 (base MSRP, no options)
2008/9:
Maxima SV "Sport/Technology/Do-Dad supreme" CVT = $37,500+/-
BMW 535i 6-speed = $49,200 (base MSRP; includes 4 year maintenance)
In 14 years, the price of a Maxima has nearly doubled, while the enthusiast appeal has diminished, thanks to a rubber band CVT transmission, bloated curb weight on a FWD platform and American (v.s Japanese built) fit and finish. Over that same 14 years, BMW performance, fit and finish and reliability have all improved dramatically. The fuel efficient 535i 6-speed outperforms the old M5, let alone the 540i 6-speed and the relative price for that improved performance has gone up by next to nothing over 14 years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------
Interesting comparison, but the problem I see with that is this. The 14 Yr old Max was a good car for its time. The New Max is a far better car, safer, quiter, and drives better IMO.... Again yuo can not compare the two cars..
The 535i base price is $50,625 and where are you going to find a base 535? Your not.... Well unless you order it from your local BMW and do a Euro Delivery Plan. But the average price for a 535i I have seen here in PHX area is $55K, about 20K more then a mid level Max... But how can you compare a Max and 535i anyhow? You can't... So its a mood point.
Regarding your comment about your Acura TL, you say the complete oposite of what the car mags say about it in rain and snow. Now granted I have no first hand knowledge of the TL in rain and snow, but I find it interesting that the car mags which are more critical about cars then the average person just love the TL....
BTW, a 535i is fuel efficient if you stay out of the turbos, but that isn't any fun at all...
1995:
Maxima SE 5-speed = $21,500 (my actual price)
BMW 540i 6-speed= $48,420 (base MSRP, no options)
Hmmm, it has been nearly a decade but I remember pricing a new 99 SE A/T MSRP $32-33K at around $29K with the Nissan VPP supplier discount. Same body style as a 95. +/- $7000-8000 jump in 4 years seems a bit questionable. Did I miss some key info. somewhere?
Name a single car that hasn't "advanced" to some extent in the past 14 years?? Start with the Accord and end with the 535i. The problem is that the Maxima has lost ground relative to its competition, at least amoung driving enthusiasts. That "safer and quiter" came at the expense of a 20%+ increase in curb weight on a FWD platform. And "drives better" in what regard? It certainly isn't as nimble as it used to be and even some grandmothers would rather have my 14 year old 5-speed manual transmssion than a CVT. Any breathing enthusiast would rather have the short throw 6-speed in my TL. It seems that Acura woke up about the same time Nissan fell asleep.
For all of the decade and a half of advancements you might want to credit the 2009 Maxima with - and I might want to dispute - one thing is abundantly clear. There are only about one fifth as many Maxima buyers today as there were back then. And if any of those remaining buyers in 2009 think a CVT and 4-DSC are compatible, they need to take their bipolar medication.
And if any of those remaining buyers in 2009 think a CVT and 4-DSC are compatible, they need to take their bipolar medication.
FIrst off, and which medication would that be? Again what does Bipolar and cars have to do with it. Just because you have more cars then others, and own (currently) a 911 doesn't make you a sports car authority.
I happen to like the new Max for what it is, for the price there isn't a car in its league (the TL is higher priced) so again, why do you keep comparing a BMW to a MAX?
If you look under the skin of Nissan in the 90's the comapny wasn't doing very will, and lacked cash to continue developing the cars they had been, i.e the first Gen Sentra SE-R, 240SX,, the Z car and of course the MAX. Yes Nissan kept making a MAX but it lost its edge and Acrua took up where the MAX left off. But, now that Nissan is making money and it shows in thier line up. The problem with Car people is this, we are a small # of people who buy cars, since we don't have enough cash to buy the newst and coolest car each year, so the car companies built what is going to sell.
I guess I have moved on in my life to care for the all time best handleing car, since our roads are too crowded to use the car to its half potential, I would rather have a car that looks, drives well and can be fun to drive when needed be. I guess that is why I don't want to own a M3 or M5... I'd rather take a NEW MAX or my current car, 08 Altima Coupe.
I happen to like the new Max for what it is, for the price there isn't a car in its league (the TL is higher priced) so again, why do you keep comparing a BMW to a MAX?
Please understand, my issue isn't with what you like, it's with the devolution of the Maxima relative to its competition as a competent sport sedan. As for pricing, re-check your figures. The Maxima I saw tipped the scales at $37.5k. That's HIGHER than a fully loaded TL w/ Nav. Comparable to a decently equiped 328i 6-speed. And way the hell higher than the top of the line Accord, Camry or Altima. As for comparing the Maxima to a 3 series, I did that because in 1995, so did Road and Track and Car and Driver when they named it Car of the Year. It is unfortunate that now it is actually much closer in price to the BMW, but much closer to an an overpriced Camry in driving dynamics and sports appeal.
...so the car companies built what is going to sell.
Reminder, the Maxima LOST about 80% of it's sales from 1995 to 2008. Nissan lost its passion for keeping the Maxima true to the 4-DSC label and brand loyalty went into the toilet. The CVT-only 2009 model isn't going to get the enthusaist back. And it doesn't matter that only 10-15% of the 1995's were SE models with manual transmissions. That's the model that won awards and got a ton of free positive press in the process. The halo effect was huge. Not anymore.
I would rather have a car that looks, drives well and can be fun to drive when needed be.
Nothing wrong with that, but....a CVT is "fun to drive"? Sorry for my old fart narrow mindedness, but I can't buy that any more than I can accept that sychronized swimming and twirling streamers are Olympic "sports" but baseball has been dropped.
Let me make an honest suggestion. You don't need to think M3 or M5 is the alternative. Go out an test drive a $37.5k Maxima against a similarly priced, well equiped 328i 6-speed and then give me your honest driving impressions. The Maxima may have a few more do-dads. And a spec sheet that shows it has 60 more horsepower. But, if you have the heart to be honest, I think you will find that the BMW will be noticably quicker, exceptionally better in handling, steering and braking, 15-20% more fuel efficient, and, at least by my definition of "sport" a HELL of a lot more fun to drive.
I'm not a BMW salesman, not even an owner. Just a former Maxima owner that feels like Nissan let a great thing get away.
- The front grill of a Scion TC/Honda Ridge line/previous Pathfinder
- The hood of a past generation Ford Taurus
- The fender flares of an old Isuzu Rodeo/Old Chevy Blazer
- The trunk and tail of a Toyota Camry/Altima/Lexus ES
- Side window design and interior design of a Lexus ES
- A/C vents from current and past Pontiac
- Same seats as the Altima
DO YOU GIVE UP? You get the new 09 MAXIMA
The previous model at least resembled the Lexus GS series, mid range luxury, as opposed to the ES, entry level series resembled by the current model.
As the owner of an 07 Maxima with CVT, fuel guzzling machine, that is the worst transmission ever put into a car. My 07 has one extra gear compared to the 04 I traded in, it also has 10 fewer horsepower and 18 inch wheels vs. 17 inches and still gets me 4 to 5 fewer miles to the gallon than the 04, go figure.
All of that coupled with 5 of the eight colors available being some shade of black, the fact that the sport package restricts you to the grey seats and not the beige seats, and some tacky trim around the shifter and doors, and you get the idea that the new Maxima is so off the mark it is a miracle why someone would buy/lease one. Nissan needs to realize that the flagship car of a company should afford the buyer more choices in trim, color, package combinations, and interior apparel.
2009 NISSAN MAXIMA SV
DARK SLATE, CHARCOAL INTERIOR
PREMIUM PACKAGE
SPOILER
TINTED WINDOWS
CARPET FLOOR MATS
TRUNK ORGANIZER W/EMERGENCY KIT
36,900.00 OUT THE DOOR SING AND DRIVE
TAX AND TAG TRANSFER INCLUDED IN PRICE.
SOOO DEAL OR NO DEAL???
2009 NISSAN MAXIMA SV
Winter Frost, Latte Interior
Premium + Technology package
Carpet Floor mats
Splashguards
Trunk Organzier w/ Emergency Kit
Lojack (dealer install these automatically on all their cars)
$35,200 excluding TTL.
This was demo model. They just didn't have this car in stock in NJ and I didn't feel like waiting for one to come in with these specs. However they did an excellent job on the detail and you would have never known this car had any mileage on it.
They were not offering any finance incentives on the 09 Maxima, so i used my credit union 4.5%. I was not big on this CVT engine during the test drive, especially after playing with those paddle shifters. However after getting on the open road a little bit this car really can accelerate. This is coming from someone that drives a G35 Coupe.
Why didn't you wait for the 09 G37 Sedan with the 7 speed transmission?
Fixes the only real problem with the G35 (excessive highway RPM).
The question is how much of a discount off MSRP are you getting?
The out the door price can vary widely depending on tax rate, dealer fees, etc.
I am guessing the MSRP is close to your out the door price?
So you got the tax & title for free?
These "out the door" and "sing and drive" prices are useless for comaprisons in this forum. What might look like a decent deal in California or Taxachusetts is a crappy deal in Delaware with 0 sales tax. Even some counties add a sales tax surcharge. In Washington DC, you pay an extra 1% (7% vs. 6%) on vehicles with a curb weight of over 3,500 lbs. (And unfortunately the Maxima now qualifies for this "SUV / Heavy Car" surcharge).