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Comments
Ken
thanks
Steve, Host
Hope this helps clarify.
Toyota Ken
Also, which models is the X-reas offered, since anything that makes an SUV corner better then a Caddy Fleetwood is worth considering...
Lastly, to the Runner owners...did you consider a 2005 Pathfinder, and why did you buy the Runner???...again, thanks...
length 4-Runner 189in, Explorer 189.5
width 4-runner 73.8in, explorer 72.1
height 4-runner 68.5, explorer 71.4
wheelbase 4-runner 109.8, explorer 113.8
Ground clearance 9.1 vs 8.5
x-reas suspension available on Sport and Limited models only, and does have a significant impact on squat, dive, and roll.
As for cargo room behind the rear seats and front and rear leg room, I would recommend that you actually look at both and take a tape measure with you. Each company measures these things differently and the measurements can be very decieving. On top of the volume of storage space isn't necessarily what's helpful. It's the layout of the cargo area, how flat is it, how square is it, how tall is it, how easy is it to get to and lift things into it.
Hope this helps.
Toyota Ken
I own an 04 4Runner V8 SR5 with 15000 miles. The truck is one of the best rigs I have ever owned with the exception of it having the most ungodly uncomfortable
driver seats. The seat in all last generation 4runners all have an adjustable lumbar support, even though it actually hits your back way too high, not in the lumbar area at all. I'm 6 foot 1 inch tall and weight 170 lbs(not big at all) and the seat in way too narrow in the area where your but sits. This you will not notice unfortunately un till you have spent about an hour behind the wheel. This is in reply to those who will say If the seat didn't fit why did you buy the vehicle. I'm now in the process of trying to locate a seat from an 05 Tacoma as they seam to fit me really well( they are actually quite a bit wider where your but sits in the seat. If I can locate one of these it will save me the money of trading this vehicle off as I really like all other aspects of this truck
On the other hand, I will say that in my opinion, Japanese automotive manufacturer's still don't seem to understand that American drivers tend to be larger and more fleshy than our Japanese brethren. We Americans still often prefer seats that are wider, softer, and more supportive. Indeed, I think the 4Runner's cabin width and length could stand to be a bit larger, since this would allow for bigger and better seats, among other virtues.
This is one of the best driving vehicles we have ever owned. And the V8 is GREAT!
However, the Explorer just cannot compete when it comes to interior fit and finish, engine performance, and refined characteristics. The Explorer's engine is thrashy, and runs out of steem when loaded. The 4Runner (although a V8), is effortless and never runs out of power. The interior of the 4Runner is far superior, and reliability is a huge issue for me. The transmission of the 4Runner is in a different class than the Explorer, with shifts being nearly un-noticeable.
Finally, the price. The 4Runner is more expensive, hands down. I think they are worth every penny. Because of the rebates, the Explorers are losing value very quickly. You will pay more for the 4Runner up front, but hang on to the vehicle for 5 years and just look at the difference in resale....not to mention vehicle upkeep. Drive both, and decide for yourself, but I think that the 4Runner is just a better vehicle.
I couldn't agree more. I can't believe how more refined the 4Runner is over the Explorer. The powertrain of the 4Runner is one smooth system. And to top it off, if the onboard computer is correct, I am getting the same mpg as with the V6 Explorer! Happy Motoring! :shades:
Following my 36,000 mile honeymoon with my new Explorer, it went on to spend most of the summer of 2003 in a Ford "Blue Oval" (supposedly "top notch") service shop. They would keep the vehicle for several weeks at a time, while claiming they were diligently checking and rebuilding this and that. On numerous occasions, the dealer used the old trick of claiming that the lengthy delays in completing repairs were never their fault, but were instead due to Ford allegedly sending them some wrong parts, or that they were waiting on certain parts to arrive, blah, blah, blah. The dealer never admitted any errors on their part, when in fact I think they just flat out lied to me throughout that summer.
Each time the vehicle was shopped during this ordeal, I had a very hard time reaching one of their supposedly "Blue Oval" service managers by phone, and when I did, I got the run-around. I even got the run-around from the Ford dealer's General Manager. And, when I'd finally get a call to come pick up my vehicle, each time I drove it home, it was no better, so back it would go to the shop where it would just sit for another several weeks, without the problem ever being fixed.
Meanwhile, I found much evidence that the hood of my Explorer was being used as a makeshift coffee table for the shop crew, and it also obviously served as a convenient leaning post for smoke breaks, etc. I would also find the previously immaculate interior of my Explorer to be filthy with greasy footprints, fingerprints, etc. Moreover, on one occasion I discovered that the previously immaculate exterior of my vehicle was peppered with roofing tar from work being done on the roof of the shop...
Before long, I tried contacting Ford's 1-800 "Customer Care" hotline for help, but after my lengthy initial conversation with them, they failed to keep their promises to follow up with me by phone, and in fact I never heard from Ford "Customer Care" again, despite my numerous attempts to re-contact them.
Finally, in 9/03, I'd had quite enough of Ford, where quality is "Job None". I got rid of my miserable lemon Explorer (along with the transferable extended warranty), took a financial loss in the process (live and learn....), and bought a new '03, V8, AWD 4Runner Limited with X-REAS, DVD-Nav., Michelin Cross Terrains, etc..
In brief, my 4Runner has been the absolute finest and most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. Moreover, my Toyota dealer's level of service has thus far been superbly competent, attentive, and above all, highly professional and trustworthy.
I thought I was crazy too and i ask my wife to drive the truck and she felt it too. I drove to Houston last friday after been in the dealer for two times. Yes, because a vibration that starts right at 62mph, and man, it was a pain. I took the truck back to the dealer saturday and had the service manager drive with me again so he could feel what you and I feel.
They have change the tires twice to Michelin from Dunlop. They said that this a common complain and I shouldn't have any problem after that; jajajaja ;-) . No way.
Dealer says that they seem to have a problem with the balancing machine and they called the manufacturer for recalibration. After three days in the dealer we got the truck back today. However, vibration is still present.
The dealer's customer service manager gave the Toyota customer service phone number to my wife and suggested to call them and file a formal complain.
There is a law that protect consumer from defective automobiles; it's the Lemon law. Read it and I will email you again with the number my wife got at the dealer.
Pedro.
I recently drove my 05 V6 Runner until the trip computer "range" said I had 1 mile to go. The yellow empty light came on when the computer said 20 or so. Has anyone driven until the tank was totally empty? I was just curious how many miles are left in the tank after the computer says 0.
Just reset one of the odo's once the light comes on and then when you fill up , fill it full. You will know how much gas you had left by subtracting your fill up volume from the tank capacity. Often I think I'm almost out and had over a couple of gallons left.(this usually happens when my wife and I switch cars and mine comes back empty.)
I noticed that when I fill up, the range is set to 372. However, when I get gas, the addition of the miles left in the tank, with the miles I put on the tank are in the 325-335 range. Somehow, the computer loses 35 miles or so per tankful.
:confuse:
So in short, the ladder frame is better for heavy loads and work, while unibodies are better for space utilization and saving weight while integrating the latest in "crumple zones" into the body of a vehicle.
Ken
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Thanks in advance for any help, Jeff
Ken
since the body and chassis should protect you in a crash, better the chassis be bent and totalled instead of the driver being bent and totalled... :shades: :confuse:
Do the same thing with your arm, but bend your elbow about 30% and have the person push your hand again. This time, your elbow will flex/bend and you shouldn't feel as much pressure on your shoulder/body pushing you backward. This is like a unibody. In a crash, the vehicle "crumples" in pre-stressed areas to absorb the energy rather than transmitting it to, into, and through the passenger space. The unibody has more 3-dimentional strength than a ladder frame, but not as much strength in any one or two directions.
Keep in mind that a vehicle, no matter how costly is replaceable, while a life is not.
The last part that a unibody helps with is use of space. Because you don't have dedicated frame members taking up space, you can place needed equipment in more usable positions. Engines and transmissions can be placed lower in the frame without frame-rails in the way (better handling), they can also be moved forward (larger passenger compartment) and the floor can be lowered without lowering the overall height of the vehicle (still more passenger space).
There are still appropriate uses for ladder frames. You cannot put on a plow or tow extremely heavy loads without one currently.
Hope this helps explain the difference.
Ken
Appreciate your reply. Thank you.
First, change the front brake pads - no need to resurface the rotor (even GM says this is not needed except for bad scoring). The new pads add rigidity against minor rotor warp and stop vibration in the steering wheel. Use original Toyota pads of course. The other thing important to check is the lug nut torque. Even a few ft-lbs difference greatly affects the balance of the large wheels on the 4Runner. Untorque the lug nuts on a tire and retorque with a torque wrench using the appropriate star pattern. You will be amazed at the difference obtained.
Of course, also keep your drive train lubricated. There are 10-12 lub points for all of the splines and u-joints. Before finding the torque solution, I always found the vibration less after making sure the front spline was well packed.
And of course check your air pressure. Varying it a few pounds every month (e.g., 32 to 35 to 32) helps change where the tire is riding and smooth out tread wear.
Try these and let me know if any worked for you.
So all of these will help minimize vibration.
If the warranty was from Ford, you can get a refund for the unused portion. Just contact the Ford Dealer where you purchased it. I just got a $500.00 refund. I also purchased a 4Runner after my "Explorer Experience".
Couple of questions to a guy who seems to be able to simply describe things.
1. What is unsprung mass and why is it so important in handling? Is it different for unibody and ladder frames
2. Is a monocoque chassis the same as unibody?
3. Are solid axles better than independent suspension for towing?
4. Is recirculating ball steering getting replaced by Rack and Pinion because R & P is better or just less expensive to manufacture?
Thanks
David
1. Unsprung weights are everyting not supported directly by the suspension, typically consisting of the weight of the wheels, tires, brakes, spindles, bearings, and part of weight of the half-shafts, springs, and suspension links. Because this part of a vehicle is in direct connection to the road and therefore subject to all of its imperfections, it is important that this weight be as low as possible, or at least much lower than the weight of the sprung part of the vehicle, in order that the wheels maintain contact with the road surface. It is not different in unibody or ladder frames, but unibodies often allow this to be lower as components leading to the wheels to be lower, they allow better on-road handling. The drawback is that when not on paved surfaces, being lower to the ground is not always a good thing. (Imagine a boy-racer celica going through a freshly plowed field)
2. Unibody and Monocoque are the same thing, just different terms.
3. For towing, you will get people who will argue this question to a standstill. Without question, solid axles are typically built more heavily. I have yet to see a Semi or full-sized dump truck with and independent rear suspension. However, the frame and suspension have alot to do with this. A big beam axle with a weak suspension will do you no good. My personal opinion is that if you're planning on doing any extensive towing, lean toward a solid rear axle.
4. Rack and pinion is a smaller package, faster in response(typically), and gives more "feel" of what's going on with the wheels and vehicle. Mostly it's for packaging and customer preference, although rule of large numbers prevail in that when you're producing a large number of the R&P's the cost per unit is lower.
Hope this all helps.
Ken
2. Agreed, unibody and monocoque are the same.
3. For towing, I lean prefer body and frame. I don't think independent rear suspension versus solid rear axle make any significant difference towing. However, most body and frame trucks also have a solid rear axle.
4. Rack and pinion is simply better than recirculating ball. Better feel, better tracking.
Ken
Also, once the rack goes, repairs to R&P steering become VERY expensive. Of course, this happens late in the life of the vehicle, so not everyone will care.
Funny sidenote: was reading the 50-year retrospective in C&D from last month, and they had a list of the fastest and slowest vehicles they had tested for every year back a good ways. What did I see listed for 1990, but my truck! Yes, the 4Runner SR5 V-6 was the slowest vehicle to 60 mph that C&D tested in 1990, with a time of 15.7 seconds. LOL
I thought it wasn't so bad, considering that 12 years later, the 2002 Prius was the slowest with a time of 13+ seconds. Besides, I know my truck is slow. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My 2003 4Runner does 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds. That's about as fast as my first car -- a 1978 Trans Am with a 6.6 and 4-speed. And the 4Runner gets better mileage as well.
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Thanks for the great responses. I really appreceate it and got some answers that have puzzled me for years.
David
You're welcome and I'm glad it was informative.
Ken
Thanks
Body color:
link title
Interior:
link title
Even if you can't read Japanese all you have to do is move your pointer
over a link and look at the description in the bottom left status bar of
your browser window. The name of the html file will give a clue what
feature the link is for.
What I like about the 'updated' design is the curved fender flares. The
flat surfaced ones on the 2003-2005 4Runners are extremely ugly.
The round surface of the tire totally clashes with the flat surface on the
fender flare of the current models.