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2010 Toyota Camry

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Comments

  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    The California Prius owner who went 20+miles on a stuck accelerator pedal is not a beliveable character, and the story is bogus..

    Unless you have driven a Prius and understand how it works, you may want to retract that until it has been proven. The braking on the Prius is very sensitive and has many fail safes to cut power when the brakes are applied. Unless he modified the car, which if he did, they would have figured it out by now, then there is a high probability of a ghost in the machine. There is a possibility he did not know how to put the car in neutral, do you? The Prius does not have a conventional shifter, there is no PRND shifter on the car, there is a knob with an h pattern and a button to put it in park. The entire drivetrain is computer controlled, there is not one physical link between the engine, transmission and the controls in the cab, the one and only physical link it the brake pedal to the brakes, and even that is computer controlled. It is a scary event when you hit a bump and lose your brakes for a moment, and wind up slamming them on in a panic stop. There are quite a few quirks in the Prius that make me believe this happened to him, all the quirks I found kill power to the wheels, and he had to have had a couple times where a quirk would have happened. Hitting a bump with the brakes applied that would cause a wheel to hop would have killed power momentarily, having the brakes fully applied overrides the gas pedal, so you can have brink on the gas pedal, the engine would still stop.

    I will hold my verdict on this until it can be proven to be a hoax, when they can duplicate it 100% as a hoax, until then, I will wait before pointing fingers. Especially since I had a Camry Hybrid that would surge coming to a stop, and my coworkers Prius is now starting to do the same thing.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    The guy seems totally disreputable though with fraudulent insurance claims and some $700,000 in debt, not due to misfortune such as illness or job loss but apparent reckless spending. His credibility goes down with each new revelation.

    I would highly doubt there are significant bumps on Interstate 8 in SoCal -- we're not talking about potholed city streets as in NYC or Detroit.

    More on James Sikes and his "runaway" Prius here.
  • dookie84dookie84 Member Posts: 33
    This seems like a dumb question. Is there any way the car can keep going if it's in Neutral? It seems like this would be impossible. If it is impossible, why don't we hear more about this? Maybe they computers really are taking over. Move over, Hal. Before all this came out, I named my car Christine after the car in the Stephen King novel because she seemed to be in charge. :confuse:
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    i>Is there any way the car can keep going if it's in Neutral?

    Only if it's moving forward down a hill (or backward on an upgrade).
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2010
    Internal to the HSD system ECU's computer memory a variable gets "set" in an usual way/path. Say simultaeous brake/gas pedal depression along with manual activation of the cruise control "set/accel" function. That variable puts the system in the "set/accel" mode. Now due to an inadvertent programmer mistake there is a instruction execution sequence "race" condition that prevents the variable from being cleared normally, such as with the use of the brakes.

    Full braking frictional capability is not available because while the HSD system control ECU "tells" the skid control ECU it will do ~50-70% of the braking regeneratively, due to the variable being "set" it never does.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    Has the Camry problem been resolved by putting the shim on the gas pedal? Toyota service put a shim on my gas pedal on my 2010 Camry LE. I've been hearing in the news that Toyota now thinks that the gas pedal sticking could be caused from a computer problem inside the car somewhere. When I called Toyota service yesterday and asked about this, they told me that ONLY certain VIN numbers for the 2010 Camry LE need their computers reprogrammed. They didn't give me a straight answer as to whether or not they knew that the computer inside the Camry was the cause of the gas pedals sticking. It's like Toyota service has "no clue" as to what's going on or they don't want to say anything about it.
    Does anybody in here have any concrete information and updates on the 2010 Camry as to what the real cause of the gas pedal sticking is? Is it a computer problem? Or did Toyota service already fix the problem by putting a shim on the gas pedal like they did on my car? I would like to know.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Considering there have been reports of cars racing after the fix was done, I doubt it to be a frictional issue. The PCM does all it's work based on voltages, even micro voltages. If some variable is off just a bit, it can cause all sorts of strange problems. For all we know, there could be a bad batch of resistors sending the incorrect voltages to the PCM and skewing its readings.

    Does anyone have an iphone or Nextel? Have you placed it near a phone or speaker and heard the noise it makes? It could be something as simple as noise that causes this. Heck I used to drive around opening garage doors with a CB radio. Since these cars are all drive by wire now, one little glitch is all it takes to cause the car to go out of control. Just like the Airbus crashes of recent history. The computers overrode the pilots inputs because it thought they were doing something that shouldn't be allowed, yet didn't know that the plane was in danger because of a couple sensors that had incorrect data.

    As far as that Prius driver, I am reserving judgement until all the facts are in. My very first thought was he is playing a hoax, but I want to see where it goes first before placing the blame on him. I drove a Prius for 24,000 miles, and never had a problem with it going off like that, in fact I had just the opposite problem, getting it going! The traction control was so sensitive that any little tire slip killed power to the wheels, and when you are trying to merge into 55 MPH traffic from a side road, losing power is the last thing you want, hence the main reason we got rid of it.

    A slight correction to what I said earlier about putting it into neutral, the shifter moves to the left, not the right, so it is a backwards h pattern. I haven't been in one for 2 years and forgot the direction it moves. It still needs to be held for a few seconds before it will go into neutral.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Time will tell !!!!! 20+ miles and can't stop the car, sounds like a stretch to me..The Prius handles like a sports car?????
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    With the Prius, or any of the Toyota HSD systems, the skid control computer is prohibited from using frictional braking without being granted "permission", designating % of frictional braking to be used, by the HSD computer.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    edited March 2010
    A Prius handles like a Yugo. Yes, you can drive 20+ miles like he did. He was on and off the brakes 250 times according the the cars PCM. If you floor it, then hit the brakes hard, it bypasses the electric braking and goes right to hydraulic, disabling the engine, but as soon as you lift off the brake, the engine will re-engage. Do this enough times and you will heat the brakes up past fade out and they will start to disintegrate. All the evidence now points to the driver deliberately causing the car to "run away".

    An example of how quickly you can heat up the brakes to the point they start to smoke. I bought a 2010 Ford Flex with Ecoboost. The very first day I wanted to see how quickly it can go and how well it can stop. Well it gets to 110 very quickly, but 110-0 I smoked the brakes, literally, smoke was pouring off the front calipers and the rotors were blued. You can do the same speeding up and slowing down 70-95-70-95, go do that a few times in your car and see how long your brakes last.

    They put new pads on the car and tried to duplicate it and could not. None of the sensors showed abnormalities, and from all indications he was on and off the pedals.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..I bought a 2010 Ford Flex with EcoBoost (TwinForce)..."

    Nuff said.
  • packer3packer3 Member Posts: 277
    No, and I doubt if it will ever be fixed throughly. Stay away from Toyota's for a few years, who is to say there isn't other issues lingering around in there closets. And do not buy a used one you will never know if it was really fixed.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    edited March 2010
    I'm having the same exact thoughts about the gas pedal issue. I seriously doubt that Toyota will find the exact cause of the problem and fix the issue. I think that it will take more than reprogramming the computer or putting a shim in the gas pedal. I really believe that the shim which Toyota service put on my gas pedal on my Camry is a temporary fix. It's just like putting a band aid on the problem.
    The ONLY good thing about this whole thing is that I will be giving my Camry back in December 2013. By then Toyota will have come out with the redesigned newer and better built 2014 Camry. I have a feeling that Toyota will redesign and revamp lots of things in the new 2014 Camry that they couldn't fix on the 2010 model. :)
    If they do this I will probably lease another Camry. If not, I have my eyes on the VW CC which is 100% built in Germany. I would take a German built car that's built 100% in Germany by hard working Germans over an American built Japanese car that's built in Kentucky by lazy Americans. The Germans are much harder workers than the Americans and they take pride in the cars that they build. I've driven German built cars like the VW and Opel vehicles while living and visiting Europe within the last 20 years and thru my experience I've noticed that the German made cars are very well made and higher quality than the American built Japanese cars.
  • petras2petras2 Member Posts: 104
    Can't agree with your comments.. the folks building camrys in georgetown, ky are hard working and do a good job..re german built car quality, they are nice cars but all the surveys I've read report declining quality of many VW and Mercedes models in recent years..
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Huh? What does that have to do with Toyota? We get it (and have gotten it at least a dozen times) that you're anti-marketing.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..anti-marketing.."

    Aren't we all..??

    But in this case more like "anti-gas-guzzlers".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    "..anti-marketing.."

    Aren't we all..??

    But in this case more like "anti-gas-guzzlers".


    350hp, 22 MPG, AWD, 7-passenger luxury. What else has an MPG to power ratio that good?

    No, I'm not anti-marketing. I graduated a communications major and have experience in commercial-writing. How is one to know about a product without marketing/advertising? Catchy names help that, too. EcoBoost, Duratec, Valvetronic, Hydramatic, Quadrasteer... it goes on and on...
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The EcoBoost/TwinForce engine will spend the clear majority, ~98%, of its operational life operating in derated/detuned mode. Poor FE, EXTREMELY poor cruise mode FE in comparison to the same engine running with DFI but not detuned/derated in order to accommodate BOOST pressure.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Clueless you are!

    I'm getting 20 MPG in a 4800# vehicle that can safely haul 6 people, and pull a 4500# trailer, and has 355HP at my command. Do you really think that a car with V8 power getting the FE of a V6 is a gas guzzler? Heck I haven't even taken it on the highway yet. It has 1500 miles on it, and MPG can only go up the more I drive it. I am getting better MPG with this than I did in the 2008 Hyundai Veracruz by 2 MPG. Would you rather I drove my F350 Dually diesel that gets 14 MPG on diesel? I looked at all 6 passenger vehicles and the Flex was the best when it came down to interior room, towing capacity, handling and comfort. Why would I not get a high performance V6 that gets the SAME FE as the standard v6? I owned two Toyotas in the past 3 years, they are not anything write home about, at least not good things. The Prius was dangerous to drive where I live, and the Camry handled like a rowboat. Neither one of them can take my wife and kids and I anywhere unless one of them rode in the trunk.

    What you FAIL to know about the Ecoboost motor is unlike other production turbo charged engines, this one is DESIGNED to run on turbos, it has nearly the same compression ratio as the non turbo 3.5 10.0:1 vs 10.3:1. It is detuned for a reason, to prevent damaged to the AWD drive train, it is limited to 350#' of torque, which it reaches at 1500 RPM, if it exceeded that torque it would tear the drive train apart, much the same as the Prius drive train is limited in slippage, too much and it would destroy the drive train.

    Get a clue before you decide to slam something.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The compression ratio "standard" for DFI engines is more in the range of 12:1. And while that may also be true I didn't mean detuned/derated in BOOST mode, only when the engine is under light loading, say during relatively constant speed cruising on level terrain.

    Damn fuelish to run with less than the optimal CR 99% of the time.
  • packer3packer3 Member Posts: 277
    gtcotcobra hit it right, I had VW's and two Audi's excellent, minimimal problems and they handle like clocks, sorry the Japanese cars do not handle the same no matter what magic gadgetry they put in them. And I will take a car built in Germany but when they are built in Mexico no way, it's like building them in the KY. Where were the brake parts built for the Camarys the US what Toyota cars are having the most problems the ones built in the US, where were the cars built that don't have the real problems Japan. I'm an American and it seems we still can't get out of our own way. Maybe there should be a law prohibiting foreginers from running US companies, period.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Has anybody looked at reliability ratings for German built vehicles recently?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I would take a German built car that's built 100% in Germany by hard working Germans over an American built Japanese car that's built in Kentucky by lazy Americans. The Germans are much harder workers than the Americans and they take pride in the cars that they build

    Huh? Germany, like most of Europe, probably has more militant unions with greater work rules and restrictions than North America. MB, BMW and VW don't generally lead the reliability surveys and often cost a fortune to maintain and repair, but the German's do design and build "drivers" cars with nice interiors
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    a Camry and any one of the Lexus products certainly won't handle well but you apparently have never driven a Infiniti; their products are up to the handling standards of BMW and are even better than Audi as a whole when it comes to handling; if you want the best handling car around, you'll want a BMW or Infiniti!

    trust me! ;)
  • packer3packer3 Member Posts: 277
    I have driven the Infiniti, excellent car, my brother in law has one he had an Audi, had some minimal problems, got the Infinity loves it hardly any problems, but he waill be the first to say hands down for handling Audi.
    BMW best dry pavement car around, rain or snow leave it home, my daughter has an 08 with all the rear electroncis, got stuck in our driveway the last snow storm and the driveway height is almost equal to the road. Took my 08 Accord and made it to work through the blizzard with no problem.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    well I've driven Audi's and Infiniti's and have always found the Infiniti's to be a little more precise in the handling department, but it does depend on what models you drive from each company; I personally like Audi a little bit better on a overall basis, especially the interior's, some of the best in the business!!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2010
    A Camry is FWD as is the Lexus version of the Camry, the ES350. With the exceptions of the ES and the RX series the entire Lexus line is RWD or R/awd based. I believe that is also true of the Infinity products.

    RWD or R/awd vehicle will always provide better handling dynamics than any, ANY, FWD or F/awd vehicle. The SH-AWD system being the only competition that even comes close.

    Yes, FWD, with the engine forward weight bias, will often provide better foul weather traction for initial "get up and go" than a RWD or R/awd. But that slight advantage pales in comparsion to the horrble safety factor of FWD once underway in those foul weather conditions.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    your not telling me anything I don't already know ;) its actually my fault, I got side tracked with Packer there about Audi and Infiniti! my bad :blush:
  • packer3packer3 Member Posts: 277
    Disagree, drive a FWD with stability contol blows the RWD out especially when cornering, BMW's next hot rod is going to be.FWD
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    He's been on this thing for years that fwd is inherently unsafe. I ask, is it better to go off the road front end first or rear end first? At least in the former case, a driver instinctively tends to do the right thing before he or she leaves the pavement -- ease off the gas and steer into the turn. In the latter, you've got to catch that rear end fast before it comes around and you're just going along for the ride. ;)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Disagree, drive a FWD with stability contol blows the RWD out especially when cornering, BMW's next hot rod is going to be.FWD

    Not holding my breath on that one.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Yes I agree - FWD is much safer than RWD. Let off the gas and the front end comes right back. RWD is way too twitchy.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I ask, is it better to go off the road front end first or rear end first? At least in the former case, a driver instinctively tends to do the right thing before he or she leaves the pavement -- ease off the gas and steer into the turn. In the latter, you've got to catch that rear end fast before it comes around and you're just going along for the ride

    That is totally apples and oranges. In a fwd car, you aim the front wheels where you want the car to go and hit the gas, pulling the car through a turn. In a rwd car, you typically use braking to put weight over the front tires and the apply throttle after the apex, pushing the car though the turn.

    In a fwd car, letting go of the gas mid turn unloads the rear wheels, spinning the car off the road backwards (or going into a turn with your foot on the brake - trail braking - gives a little bit of extra rotation in a pre-runaway Toyota world where you could push the gas and the brake together). If you overcooked it to begin with, you just plow straight off the road without the spin.

    In a rwd car, you still brake in to a turn to get weight over the front wheels, but as you apex you want to transfer the weight to the rear wheels. Usually, if I have traction (i.e. not snowing) I feel like I have a lot more options in a RWD car. Braking will usually give understeer, and a foot in the carpet will usually bring throttle induced oversteer. Trail braking can also give oversteer if you keep the back end too light.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    If people really learned how to drive a car on a skid pad, they would easily go for a RWD car. The one and only thing FWD has over RWD is being able to get moving in slippery conditions, and only due to the weight factor. But, that weight factor is meaningless when you apply power to the wheels. What is the very first thing a car does when you accelerate? It lifts the front end off the ground, reducing traction to the drive wheels in FWD, but transferring weight to the rear wheels in RWD, added traction. Add in torque steer, and you can easily see why real drivers prefer RWD over FWD.

    In slippery conditions, in a RWD car, if you feel the rear end start to move while under power, lifting off the gas immediately puts the rear end back in place. With light feathering you can easily control forward motion. In a FWD car, you have your braking, your steering and your power all on the same set of tires, if you loose traction, you loose all 3. It is much easier to push the steering through when power is not being applied to the front wheels than it is to steer when your front wheels are slipping. I drove RWD car and trucks since I got my license back in the early 80's. I prefer RWD, because it gives me more control than FWD, even with all the gimmicks, can ever do.

    In a RWD car, a pair of snow tires in the rear is all you need, in a FWD you need them on all four corners.

    In a RWD car, adding 200 pounds to the trunk is all that is needed for added traction, can't add additional weight to a FWD car.

    In a RWD car, if the rear end starts to come around, lifting the gas, or applying power will correct it.

    In a FWD car, if the rear end starts to come around, Hang on, you are going for a ride. The rear end does come around in FWD, and when you least expect it. I got rid of our much loved Hyundai Veracruz, only because it was FWD and the rear end had a habit of coming around in the snow. I had a 79 Plymouth Horizon TC3, it took me for a ride when I was making a turn onto an on ramp, I hit a slick spot, the rear end broke loose and away I went around for 3 spins before smacking a curb, and I was only going 20 MPH. Since then I only drove RWD until recently when I needed a more economical car, the Crown Vics were getting too expensive to drive, only getting 18 MPG. I got a Prius, Hated it, could not stand the FWD wheel slip and stop traction control, I did not feel safe in it. Got the Hyundai, it was fine for our driving , but had severe steering torque when you applied hard throttle, and the above mentioned problem in snow, had a Camry Hybrid, It was OK in all weather, but handled like a rowboat. I now have Fusion Sport, I would have preferred an AWD, but none were available, and it is a chore to drive in snow. It has enough power to light up the front tires, and it does it quite frequently when making a turn, needs better tires, but it handles OK. The car would be so much better if it were RWD though.

    Here is the biggest thing RWD vs FWD. When you loose traction in FWD, you lose not just travel, IE drive wheels, you lose steering as well. In RWD if you lose traction, you only lose it in the rear, where power is being applied, but you still have full steering, unless you are on ICE, then it doesn't matter what you drive, you are hanging on for the ride. With subtle throttle applications you can also steer the car with the rear wheels, but you cant do that with FWD. This is why RWD is preferred for drivers, better overall control, but because of the influx of easier to produce FWD cars over the past 30 years, people no longer know how to drive properly in RWD, and are basically scared of them because they lack the knowledge of how to handle one.

    My 69 YO mother drives a Lincoln Town Car in all weather, though she prefers if I drive her if there is snow, she knows how to drive a RWD car in snow, and hates FWD, she had one go off the road with her because she lost steering when she lost traction, but has never had that happen to her with the RWD cars she has. She was taught how to drive in a RWD car, same as me.

    Just curious, but what does this have to do with the Camry? :confuse:
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2010
    Actually we should be thankful for the strong popularity of FWD and F/awd. Look at all the safety features that have been designed in over the past 20 years in order to dramaticlaly increase their safety factor.

    Now put those in the RWD vehicle that was safe to begin with.....

    Even the newest Porsche C4 is a beneficiary. The electromagnetic clutch now used to linearly apportion engine torque to the front wheels is right out of the F/awd Ford Escape's "playbook".
  • pixshooterpixshooter Member Posts: 51
    edited March 2010
    Back to topic~~~~
    Toyota Repair Document Uncovered: Toyota warned dealers of throttle surging in 2002
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/22/toyota.throttle.warning/index.html?hpt=T2 Read Toyota Service Bulletin

    The internal Toyota document was given to CNN by a group of attorneys now seeking a nationwide class-action lawsuit against the company. Ditlow said the document -- not previously made public -- indicates Toyota knew much earlier about an electronic connection to sudden acceleration problems. He also said the bulletin was apparently ignored or hidden from the public not only by Toyota, but also by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

    Read National Highway Traffic Safety Administration memo

    "The government is really hiding this information from the consumer," Ditlow told CNN. "They're in a conspiracy with the auto industry to keep these out of the public's sight."

    The attorneys now suing Toyota say the repair bulletin is proof the car company knowingly lied to the public about the causes of sudden acceleration, blaming floor mats or stuck gas pedals instead.

    "They can fix these problems easily," said Tim Howard, a Northeastern University law professor who heads the legal group suing Toyota. "But it would cost them about $500 a car nationwide. If you have six [million] to seven million cars, you add the numbers -- it's between $4 [billion] and $5 billion. It's hard to actually tell the truth when those numbers are at the bottom of that truth."

    NHTSA did not respond to requests for comment. And Toyota did not respond to questions about the bulletin, but it issued a statement to CNN attacking Howard and his fellow lawyers.

    "Toyota strongly disputes these completely baseless allegations being driven by plaintiff's attorneys like Mr. Howard," the statement said. "Toyota intends to fight against these unfounded claims vigorously."
    Howard and his legal team say they plan to appear in federal court in San Diego, California, later this week, trying to persuade a federal judge to combine the 88 individual lawsuits so far filed against Toyota into a single class-action litigation.

    Video of the Toyota service bulletin>
    http://clipta.com/Toyota_repair_document_uncovered__nNjg3NA==


    In related news>>> Toyota shareholders sue over fallen stock price
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100322/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_investor_ire_5
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    edited March 2010
    Surging, especially in this case going from 38-42 mph and back, is hardly the equal of sudden acceleration.

    Anyone who drove a carbureted car in the early 70s would consider this trifling.

    Plus this was hardly a "secret" document -- it was a Technical Service Bulletin that anyone can obtain by paying for it through a subscription service. I actually was able to obtain a number of TSBs online through a public library, at no charge. (These have since been removed from free access.)

    Another case of the lawyers groveling to cash in.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    My preference is RWD..Maybe it's because of my elevated age and RWD was all that was being produced for the greater part of my life..Each drive systems has it's advantage..My first ride was a tweaked 35 Ford, straight dual exhausts powered by a flathead 1948 V-8 .so I am dated..Owned many FWD cars, no AWD..

    Waiting on my Mustang GT, 2010 or 2011..

    Camry update--2002 XLE gas mileage--4banger-23.04mpg versus 2006 Pontiac GPGT w/S/C 260hp V-6---20.85mpg---similiar driving routes, not much of a difference in gas mileage..I buy gas for both, Camry on a cheap regular and the Pontiac on Shell V-plus less 6% due to old shell credit card. Why go the 4-banger route???
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Wait on the Mustang until you can get one with the 5.0. Right now my Flex EB has 35 more HP and can smoke a Mustang GT, and it is only a V6 on 87 O. That Camry mileage is pretty low, is that all city driving?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Your 2.5 ton Flex with 355 horses won't smoke a 1.7 ton Mustang with 315 horses.

    The EB Flex is fast, but not that fast.

    Back to your regularly scheduled Camry. :)
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    The Pontiac is a glutton on gas mileage, however the Camry should win the economy by a larger margin..In the last 3 yrs I have driven the Camry probably 300 miles.. It is female driven and gets about 1 fillup/monthly..The Pontiac gets a weekly dose of petrol..

    The Flex sounds great and I shall be on the lookout for an road comparsion between the GT and the racy Flex....

    Driving pattern is 50/50, town/open road. Sarasota County, mainly Venice area.

    The local Camry dealer has had 4-2011 SE w/sunroof, mats and the Toyo policy on his lot for almost 2 mos, and was willing a couple weeks to eliminate dealer fee, mats,Toyo policy charge and discount the base by 18%..

    Owning a Camry SE-4banger might save me 50.00 a month on gas. However I believe that the price of gas will "skyrocket" within the next 18 mos due to our left-hand leadership of the WH...and the raising of gas mileage, fleet stds from 2020 to 2016.. $7.00/ gal on the horizon...
    ,
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    edited April 2010
    It all depends on who is behind the wheel! :) Between the Flex and the Stang, the difference in the quarter can be as little as .6 seconds, and it all boils down to who gets out the chute first, and if the lighter Stang spins any rubber, Flex wins. I fully expect a Mustang Gt with a competent driver to be able to beat the Flex in a race, but an average drive in a Stang against a competent driver in the Flex, would make for an interesting race. A Taurus SHO with a CAI and tune ran 12 seconds, other than a weight penalty on the Flex, a CAI and tune would make the Flex one scary fast ride.

    However I believe that the price of gas will "skyrocket" within the next 18 mos due to our left-hand leadership of the WH...and the raising of gas mileage, fleet stds from 2020 to 2016.. $7.00/ gal on the horizon...

    And watch, no one will be bashing Obama like they did Bush. If you find a car you like that isn't a Hybrid, or sub compact, better get it now, you wont find one in 6 years, not with the average MPG being 35 MPG. Anything larger than a corolla or civic will need to be a hybrid, or be really underpowered.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Mustang, Camaro, Charger, Corvette, and Viper or only about BIG IRON. Porsche is about finesse and GREAT driving dynamics.

    Stop waiting for the Mustang and shop for a used Boxster or Cayman.

    I have owned a '67, '71, and '72 Mustang FB's, and lately a 2001 Mustang convertible, V6, manual. '01 was purpose bought for a run on the track at daytona.

    Our '95 LS400 gets 24.5MPG hwy.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Did you know that Reagan, on the advice of Kissenger, was the cause of the huge gas price increase back then. The idea was to prop up the Shah of Iran by filling his personal coffers.

    IMMHO the best thing our government could do is pre-annonce gas tax increases over the next 10-20 years, a $ a year tax increase. Use the excess funding to build high speed railways and inner city subways.

    We really do need to wean ourselves off of foreign energy supplies.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    By the time Reagan took office, the Shah had already been overthrown, and the radical Muslims were in charge. In fact, the American hostages were released on Reagan's inauguration day.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Sorry, you're correct, it was Nixon.

    Old age creeping up.
  • ksissonksisson Member Posts: 1
    edited April 2010
    I just got a 2010 Camry a couple days ago. I can't seem to find the feature that tells you how many miles per gallon you are getting. I looked in the owners manual and it shows it as a button on the steering wheel labeled DISP. My steering wheel doesn't have that button though. Is there another place that it can be or does this car not come with this feature? I can't imagine that it wouldn't have it. It is a basic feature on most cars.
  • jerryfyjerryfy Member Posts: 4
    Only XLE have "DISP" button.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Like the Big Iron, it's Detroit!!!!! In my younger days I went the Porsche route, twice in Germany..Both new, took delivery at factory...58 Super Coupe, and a 59 Super Coupe..356s, The 58 was driven 22k miles in Germany, sold to a GI returning to the states, took delivery on the 59er and brought it back to states, sold with approx 30k miles, making my Porsche adventure fun and breakeven on costs..No problems and the autobahn was a freeway back in those days where you could let it all out..no limit from end to end..Gas was .18/gal at PX, and premium on the local economy was .25/gal..

    Owned 2 Camaros, 71 SS350, went 90k mi, 82 Z-28 wife's car, sold after 2yrs, weeny car. The 71 Camaro was awesome..

    Porsches are too expensive, dealers are too few, and they are too small..I will put my money on the Dearborn guys, Ford.

    We don't need high-speed rail, that's not in my vocabulary, gas tax increase, to pay for social transportation to keep the masses happy--not on my adgenda!!!

    At my senior age I will let you youngsters worry about the shift to socialism....
  • delraybuzzdelraybuzz Member Posts: 2
    Just saw the 2011 Camry in Spruce Mica at 2 different dealers. The first knocked us off our feet; absolutely gorgeous with tiny pools of green in a black background,..looking like dark emerald pearls! Since the offered trade in was unacceptable for our 20,000 mile red Camry '07, we went elsewhere and were shown a Spruce Mica Camry looking like any other metallic paint! What a disappointment, and we can't account for the difference. It would worry me in case of requiring touch-ups! Our '07 looks great and has a moonroof to boot, so we'll hang in there for a Camry style change year! The 2011 looks too similar to the '09
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