Toyota 4Runner

jimmyj1945 · February 2002

My vote is for BUZZ. Thats, Buzz 1, Cliffy 0. Let's see whi wins.

Jim

jimmyj1945 · February 2002

Who wins... not whi wins. Sorry.

austin18 · February 2002

I vote for Buzz. He seems more reliable. Total, so far, Buzz 3, Cliffy 0

jkulp42757 · February 2002

I vote for Cliffy. Not because I think Buzz is unreliable, but because both have very credible information and the vote deserves to be closer than 3 - 0

Here you go Cliffy.....your first vote!

Current Tally: Buzz 3 Cliffy 1

kullenberg · February 2002

Here's another for Cliffy - he's a known quantity on this board; "buzz" sounds like something from "Toy Story"!

jkulp42757 · February 2002

Buzz 3
Cliffy 2

scname · February 2002

Like kellenberg said, he's known quantity.

jacksonm · February 2002

Cliff has been wrong before. Everything Buzz has said, so far, has been right on the money. I vote For Buzz.

Current Tally

Buzz 4
Cliffy 2

stever · February 2002

So what happens if Toyota decides on a July release? We could start a pool, but remember, this is a friendly forum; no wagering.

(or whatever Garrison Keillor is always saying).

Steve
Host
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jf01 · February 2002

Tally another vote for Cliffy! That should actually be
Buzz 4
Cliffy 4
jacksonm, I think you missed scname's vote.
Let's make this like the Super Bowl! Close to the last few seconds! But I guess this'll be harder to figure out who's closer to winning than the Super Bowl though.

kjack100 · February 2002

Yes, this is an exhibition, not a competition....please....no wagering.

David Letterman, "Stupid Pet Tricks"

Mulling over my vote...vote for sale...any offers?

Is April 30th and prior for Buzz and August 1st and later for Cliffy reasonable?

stever · February 2002

I predict the 4Runner will arrive at the dealers on Feb. 30th.

Thanks for the quote attribution kjack100.

Steve
Host
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cliffy1 · February 2002

Buzz, how can you claim your information is more credible? You haven't told us what your source is.

And Austin18, what has Buzz ever posted that was true? All he has ever done is tell us his "source" says March. I've said I hope he is right, but have my doubts.

cliffy1 · February 2002

I'm in a VERY foul mood today. I'll get over it tomorrow when I start my short fishing vacation.

raybear · February 2002

I see from his profile that Cliffy appears more qualified to correctly answer the question.

I also emailed another Toyota dealer and got the same answer Cliffy's been giving us.

rsholland · February 2002

714cut · February 2002

He's always helpful and tries to be accurate. Plus he has to put up with that jerk on the Sequoia forum all the time... Go Cliffy!!

meemo92 · February 2002

...but I can't wait until this fall for a new 4runner. Would rather buy a toyota but don't like the current model. Will probably end up in a Jeep (ouch, can't believe I said that).

kjack100 · February 2002

Cliffy, playing the old sympathy angle, eh? Smart.

I don't know what Buzzlight has been right or wrong about. But, that screen name does remind me of the Neil Diamond E.T. song. Buzz, I hope you're right because the wheels are falling off my 4Runner and want to get the new body style.
So with all due respect, for Cliffy's health, a vote for Cliffy.

Cliffy 8
Buzz 4

p_g_00 · February 2002

liked his input at Toyota 4WDs explained.

harley24 · February 2002

I know Cliffy. He is just trying to sell more 2002 4 Runners. He is on some sort of incentive plan or something. Independent sources confirm Buzz's scenario. Ask Cliff how many 2002 4 Runners will be arriving in April. The answer is a big ZERO. I vote for Buzz.

Buzz 6
Cliffy 8

stever · February 2002

Interesting theory, but Cliffy1 doesn't sell cars anymore.

Catch some big ones, Cliffy, and watch those anchor lines.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

rsholland · February 2002

I see Toyota has scheduled a press preview of a new "World Debut" at the Chicago Auto Show tomorrow at 9:15 am. Could this be the new 4Runner?

Bob

kjack100 · February 2002

Bob..interesting. I can't think of any other redesigned Toyota/Lexus in the pipeline since everything, except the 4Runner and the Solara, has been redesigned in the past three years. And why Chicago? Curiouser and curiouser.

Here's a link to a Mag-X, artist's renditon of a future Toyota Prado that was posted on MAG-X last October. So, I guess I was wrong about the LandCruiser Prado link I posted a while back being a redesign.
http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/prado0110/index.html
Click on the vehicle, and you get a bigger photo.

Hey, maybe Cliffy really went to Chicago?

Cliffy 9
Buzz 5

p_g_00 · February 2002

They probably just got it done. :-)

Chicago Auto Show Schedule

stever · February 2002

Ice fishing, maybe?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

buzzlight · February 2002

I believe the world debut in Chicago will be the new solara. The 4 Runner will just appear on dealer lots at the end of March.

austin18 · February 2002

Buzz must be right. Cliffy has disappeared. I think he went to Japan to drive a 2003 4 Runner.

austin18 · February 2002

I think I saw Cliffy on the way to the Airport. He was driving a Jeep Grand Wagoneer. It was smoking....he must have been late for his flight to Tokyo...HeHe

jacksonm · February 2002

He was reading a chevy brochure.....

rsholland · February 2002

kaner · February 2002

I have a good friend who is the gm of a local Toyota dealership. He says the 2003 4 Runner will definitely be here by April. He would not tell me something like that unless he knew for sure. He told me not to buy the 2002.

zman3 · February 2002

Does anyone have any news on the "World Debut" this morning in Chicago? I went to the Toyota web page and I didn't find anything yet. Is it the 4Runner?

p_g_00 · February 2002

I could be wrong. Auto Week Galleries

p_g_00 · February 2002

It's Tundra. http://www.prnewswire.com/micro/chiauto

rsholland · February 2002

has got to be one of the dumbest ideas Toyota has ever had. God I hope that ugly truck never makes production.

What they need to do is work on a Tundra Crew Cab, not that idiotic step side.

Bob

zman3 · February 2002

Gives me more time to save up $$$.

serpico1 · February 2002

i see that the 2002 or 2001 4 runners are up there in price..i mean, the sr5 with some nice options is 30,000 right..and the limited is about 32,000 or so..my question is i know the 4 runner is a great suv, but at that price you can get a land rover discovery SD, but still, its a land rover..a whole other level of SUV..i wanted to get a 4 runner but thought i could get one for 28,000 not 32,000..seems a bit high..32,000 with a little haggling gets me a brand new land rover discovery...am i missing something here..please she some light..i love the 4 runner, but cant make myself buy it at over 30,000..in that neighborhood, as i said is a land rover discovery ...thanks in advance...

regards

zman3 · February 2002

I don't own a 4Runner, but I am interested in seeing the redesigned 2003 before I buy my next vehicle. Here are the reasons I would consider a 4Runner (2002 or 2003) over a Land Rover Discovery:

1) Depreciation - Everything I have seen on Land Rovers leads me to believe you will take a beating on resale value.

2) Reliability - Again I believe the Toyota will be superior.

3) Comfort - I've only been in one Discovery but it would not suit my needs. If you do hardcore off-roading then it may be the better choice for you. But if you are looking at moderate off-roading or something to drive to the mall, I'd pick the 4Runner hands down. I thought the ride on the Discovery sucked.

My quick 2 cents.

mikeg444 · February 2002

I agree with zman3. Reliability is a huge difference between the two. 4Runners are pretty bullet proof where as Land Rovers...see consumer reports. Have you driven both vehicles? My friend had a Disco II and my 98 SR5 drives so much better on-road. But even when considering off-road use...are you driving the Baha 500 or just messing around in the mountains or at the beach. I say wait until the new 4Runner comes out or buy a used Runner...and then buy the new one next year.

loma1 · February 2002

The top end 4runner pricing is about what you see Discoveries advertised as *starting* at. While I'm sure they are out there, usually you see vehicles at a dealership that have more than just the basics and so will cost more. What are you looking for out of an SUV? That will determine where you will find the most value for your dollar.

Why I chose the 4Runner over a disco
1. Engine produces approx the same HP with better mileage and regular gas
2. Reliability
3. Better dealer network. There is one Rover dealer in KC. The next is 300 miles east to St Louis or 600 miles west to denver. Any problems in between and I'm in for a long tow.
4. Has traction control like Disco, plus skid control and a locking center diff(for off-road) which new Discos lack.

Those are the main reasons, but there are a few others.

Gary

akg · February 2002

I need a seat cover for the back of my 2001 4Runner. There was an alleged water-resistant one in the Performance Parts catalogue. Anyone try it? Any suggestions?

PS. Go easy on Cliffy, he's been really helpful to this forum and doesn't deserve all the stupid comments.

jynewf · February 2002

Yet another take on the whole Disco versus 4runner theme ...

I paid 35,000 for my 2000 4runner Limited. Of course for that kind of money I could have bought a Discovery SE or saved some money and bought a Pathfinder LE.

Here are my reasons for choosing the 4runner over the Disco:

1. Reliability: Look at J.D. Powers 5 year quality survey. As I recall, the 4runner ranked first among intermediate SUVs. It also does well in Intellichoice's surveys as well as Consumer Reports (although CR doesn't give a reliability evaluation for Disco's)

2. Resale: If you look around here in the Boston area, '96 Discos can be had for 16,500 to 17,000. '96 4runners are also in the same ballpark, but the 4runners were atleast a few thousand cheaper to buy in the first place.

3. Dealer network: I am constantly going up to my in-laws in southern Vermont, where there is no Ye Olde Land Rover Shoppe. Land Rover Centres are mainly found in large urban areas. If you plan on going offroading in rural areas (as I do), you are a long ways away from a dealer if something breaks.

4. Cheaper parts: Unless you are handy, better cross your fingers nothing goes wrong with the Rover.

5. Center Locking Diff: My 2000 limited has the multimode system, which is basically an AWD system, plus a traditional locking center diff (with low range) plus a elec. rear locker. The (newer) Disco has NO center locking diff; just some traction control using the brakes. IMO, brake-based traction systems, esp. w/out a center locking diff (a la Disco, Mercedes ML and BMW X-thing) are garbage off-road. You'll wear out your pads and warp you brakes in no time, and if ALL four wheels are slipping (i.e. in snow up a hill, scrambling for purchase), then you will grind to a traction-control induced halt.

6. Electric Rear Window Tailgate: I've got a 110 pound dog. Nuff said.

7. Lower Roof: I ski. Hard to get a proper ski-rack on a Disco that doesn't require stilts.

So what's good about the Disco? Shorter overhangs, solid axles front and rear, cool shape, rarer, and of course, upscale image.

If you simply must have a Rover, then of course, nothing, least of all a Toyota, will do. I understand. I was bitten by the bug when I studied abroad in England back in the early 90s, before they started importing the Disco I in the states. I thought they looked fantastic.

However, what brought be back to my senses was the realization that ultimately, the point of a 4x4 is to get you there and back. Its not a fashion statement. I knew I would be driving alot in very rural parts of Vermont where the roads aren't paved and the nearest store would be 12 miles away. If my rig wasn't 100% reliable, me and my family would be in for a very long, cold walk.

This sentiment has been shared by many others who live in remote parts of the world. Despite all of the marketing hype from Land Rover, these days most people in the Middle East, Africa, Australia and Asia drive Toyota Landcruisers (albeit different from the ones we have here), as well as Nissan Patrols and Mitsubishis (as attested to by all the beat-up toyotas hiluxes and series 70s and 90s you saw Afghans driving in all the war footage). When getting back really counts, fashion tends to go by the wayside.

Anyways, to sum: if you can stand some reliablity issues, and want to be different, get the Disco. If you need reliable transportation, and need offroadability, get the 4runner. And if you don't need to go offroad, DON'T GET EITHER. Your probably better off with a more car-like SUV with a unibody and independent suspension. Or save the planet and get a Prius ...

kjack100 · February 2002

We are not, at least I am not, giving Cliffy a hard time. It's all in jest, like you kid with your big sibling. I respect his input immensely. I lurk around the Toyota truck boards on here and his input is top notch. We are lucky he posts on Edmund's.

Bob, the stepside Tundra is...well...I see why Cliffy is studying Chevy brochures now. Maybe looking for a new work after seeing that thing.

Jynewf summed it up great. 4Runner hands down over the Disco, IMO. The one thing you have in the Disco is originality. But for the 4Runner, great dealer network and rock solid reliability.

I have a 97 Limited 4 wheel drive with 76,000 miles. There is not one rattle. And until last week, when I got a 60,000 mile service, only oil changes and tires and wiper blades..that's it. Drives as new.

Buzz...ya missed one on that Solara.

Cliffy 9
Buzz 6

loma1 · February 2002

From your screen name it looks like you have one of the reasons I went with the 4Runner, more space for 120lbs of drooling reason.

On your 2000 limited, I thought the limited that year came with the traction control system bundled in with the multi-mode 4WD. Do you have the Tracs and an electric locking diff?

Gary

p_g_00 · February 2002

which was the first yr toyota started to offer Multimode 4WD on 4Runner? I assume sr5 and ltd get the same 4wd system on that yr, right?

kgardin · February 2002

Picked up my 2002 4-Runner Sport on Monday. Pretty stiff ride the first three days. Now it seems softer. Don't know whether the truck loosened up or if I did! Can someone tell me what the ETC switch does. How does it work? Also are the 2002 headlights OK or do I need to bump up the wattage?

-Kelly

peter78 · February 2002

When I first got my 4Runner, it seemed pretty stiff and now I feel the ride is quite smooth. I think you just get used to it.
The ECT button basically changes the shift points on the transmission. With the ECT button "on", the engine stays longer in each gear.

http://www.outdoorwire.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=007204

serpico1 · February 2002

umm, 1st of all thanks for those commentaries..i certailnt appreciate everyone taking the time..some more points and advice for me please if you have a few minutes..

1. gas milage was mentioned..disco gets 13 , 4 runner gets 16..not a huge difference, in fact maybe 300 more per year..so no big deal when 30,000 is involved in the 1st place..

2. the size of the disco is big, big, big..the 4runner seems like pipsueak next to a disco..so cargo area and such favor the disco..

3. now the biggest of all that is mentioned and this is where i am confused..it goes without saying that 4runner is incredibly reliable, and i love the look, well made, etc..but my disco dealer says the 2002 are very realiable.(whte else is he going to say), but he was serious..he was like, look, they had problems in the past, but 85% of this suv is all new parts he said..bla bla bla..how do i really know..jd powers had problems with the old ones 98, 99 years etc..maybe land rover has reliable disco now?? how do i really know..i will be honest, for about the same price..SD i can get for 31,900..and lets be honest its pretty loaded, the interior looks like a BMW or mercedes, not like a japanese SUV, like the 4runner, whose int is sort of plain..so im having a tough decision..i guess it comes down to looks or practicality..disco wins hands down in looks, but 4runner is amzing suv in dependability and performance...

any advice for me please??

thanks in advance...

jynewf · February 2002

More than happy to spout-off about trucks ... obviously, though you have to take anything you hear on these boards with a grain of salt.

As far as your comments:

1. I agree. They both have lousy mileage. Two more things to consider: (a) one knock against the Disco: the Disco only takes premium. Not a big deal now, but if prices spike up again, it sure is hard to swallow paying that extra 20-30 cents; (b) one knock against the 4runner: the 4runner has a VERY small gas tank (only 18.5 gallons! No one ever tells you this in the car reviews!). I think most cars have atleast 14-15 gallon tanks. Never with any other vehicle have I been so acutely aware of when to time my next filling (it also doesn't help that I'm one of those anal types who doesn't like his tank to be less than 1/3 full, esp. in cold weather).

2. I disagree with you with respect to cargo areas; if you use the 'compare vehicle' feature on the Edmunds site, you will see that the 4runner has a max cargo area of 80 cu.ft (40 cu.ft with the seats up); the Disco has a max cargo area of 63 cu.ft. (40.5 with the seats up). The 4runner has much more cargo space; moreover, I found the space in the Disco to be configured in such a way that it wasn't very useful to me (I have to move a large, long dog carrier around). The Disco's cargo space is very tall, and not very deep.

However, I DO agree with you that the Disco's passenger space felt much more airy and open. I'm 6 ft, and even with the seat all the way back, I feel cramped in the 4runner, like the sides and roof are coming in on me. However, with the Disco, I had plenty of head room.

3. As far as the Disco 2002's reliability? Who knows? I certainly don't. Obviously, the people on the Disco boards have their own opinion about this. Suffice it to say that the Runner's reputation in this area is established and well deserved. Although you are always rolling the dice on any vehicle you buy (even Toyota makes an occasional lemon), lets just say the odds are better that a 'yota will be more trouble free than a Rover. I mean, even the staunchest Rover fanatic will admit that you will have to deal, at the very least, with niggling problems (i.e. trim pieces falling off, leaks, squeaks, etc.). As an nitpicky person, I know I couldn't stand to deal with niggling problems, let along big ones. You'll just have to decide what your own pain threshold is with respect to such issues.

Good luck, and happy wheelin'

Toyota 4Runner

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