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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI
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Comments
In October of 2007 when we bought the Sequoia the dealer had plenty of Prius and Highlander hybrids for sale. All below invoice. If I had any desire to own a Prius I could have bought two for the cash I spent on the Sequoia.
The bugs in the new DSG are being fixed. The DSG is the most efficient automatic transmission design currently available. At times I would prefer a manual. My wife likes automatic. So it is both. Something the Prius has never offered.
If I can get a decent deal on a Golf TDI when they arrive I will think of you stuck in traffic with your Prius as I am motoring in the back country of San Diego. Of course I will have about 150 more miles of range in my TDI before I have to refuel. I still remember those 700 mile jaunts before refueling in my Passat TDI. Not smelling that nasty carcinogenic unleaded is worth the price of a diesel vehicle.
PS
Honda was going to bring a diesel over but shelved that.
Sadly the Honda diesel failed to meet the ultra strict CARB rules for diesel emissions. So Honda has no midsized vehicle to compete with the Camry and Fusion Hybrids.
I think your memory is selective. I recall 100s of people with Prius stalling at high speed in traffic. Some causing injury accidents. The DSG has also had problems in its first go around. I am looking at the NHTSA ODI complaints and do not find a single accident caused by the transmission failing. I am surprised you were not one of the hundreds of complaints filed with the ODI on the 2004 Prius. It was more like riddled with bullets, not bullet proof. The complaints on the Prius go from Airbags to Vehicle speed control and visibility. Look for yourself. The Prius has benefited from Media protection. And anyone complaining here on Edmund's is run off the forum by zealots.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/results.cfm
There were only 33 reports filed with NHTSA and none resulted in an accident.
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http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/results.cfm
So far I cannot find a single failure for the 2010 Golf TDI. Pretty good for a first year offering. :shades:
Also, that link returns an error.
Toyota Dangerous Transmission
Stay away from dangerous Toyota is good advice for jpeters1970.
Knowledgeable auto enthusiasts like the staff at Edmunds appreciate Volkswagen TDI. For people who believe fun is bad for your health there is the Toyota Prius, the cure for automotive fun.
Don't enjoy your spiteful comments.
Diesel, Hybrid, Propane, Natural Gas, Electric, Hydrogen are welcome energy alternatives for the future.
It is a sad reality that some hybrid owners believe in eliminating choice. Kind of like CARB. They choose hate.
Change
Honda is doing something to change hate into good.
Here is a song for jpeters1970 in the key of grrr
Does your statement have any meaning in terms of real world data? Quantify the difference in reliability between a VW TDI and a Toyota Prius.
You have not posted one relevant quantifiable fact about reliability of Prius or TDI.
JD Power data has shown that the difference between Toyota reliability and VW is 1.3 problems per vehicle.
Consumer Reports has listed both Jetta and Golf TDI as recommended and same with Prius. CR has listed reliability of Jetta TDI as better than average.
quote Edmunds from Inside Line long term test of Jetta TDI -The Jetta does have a near flawless seating position. But I'm not surprised, VW has always done this right. For decades the company has made it a priority.
For as long as I can remember nearly every VW (including our long-term Jetta TDI) has had a tilt and telescopic steering wheel, a height adjustable driver's seat and infinite seatback rack adjustment. VW also puts the pedals and shifter where they should be. This is one of the reasons I now own my second Passat wagon.
If you can't get comfortble in our Jetta, it's your body, not the car. It's all so right, it makes me shake my head and wonder why more car companies don't just copy it all.
Scott Oldham, Inside Line Editor in Chief
Great Seating VW TDI
CNN reported, "A software problem is causing some Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid cars to stall or shut down while driving at highway speeds." A Toyota press release states:
Approximately 75,000 2004 and 2005 model year Prius vehicles may be affected by this condition.
You are the one wanting to change the subject. No one is saying any car is perfect. The previous poster made a bold claim concerning VW DSG and bullet proof Prius. Nothing was substantiated. Just an opinion. Same as you have done. I probably test drove the first Prius before any of the current crop of hybrid zealots. I know it was one of the first two in San Diego. I thought it was kind of cool until I really looked into it. After a couple electric only starts from a stop light and the newness wears off and the reality sets in. It is simply NOT a drivers car. It is mediocre transportation.
I see passion for both of these cars and I kinda have to laugh at the juvenile banter back and forth between these forum participants. Its only a damn car. Get over it!!
Of the extremely small number that actually stalled, where's there a report to support that?
Remember, when the engine cuts out, you still have a 50kW electric motor providing propulsion and a battery-pack powering everything. So, it's not like driving cannot continue.
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Welcome to the forum. Your insight is most appreciated. Poor dealer service is a big turn-off. Here in San Diego we have 11 Toyota dealers. I have only dealt with two on the service level. Both were incompetent. By contrast Drew Ford/VW has been great to deal with for both Ford and VW since the first car I bought from them in 1986. I have had them service both Ford and the VW Passat TDI and they proved most competent and reasonably priced. So my experience with Toyota and Lexus dealers has been just the opposite of yours.
The diesel vs hybrid rivalry has existed here at Edmund's since about 2003. My question to you is what type driving do you do? Are there any mountains in your commutes? Or winding roads with a lot of up and down hills? If you take a Sunday drive out in the country, which would be your choice to drive?
If I based my vehicle purchases on the dealers here in San Diego, I would never buy another Toyota or Lexus.
http://www.wcoty.com/media/?release=45&year=2009
Maybe if VW was selling cars in 1989 for $41k they would be built to last 20 years plus. VW was the number one import before Toyota ever came to the USA. I bought into the Toyota myth in 1964 with one of their sub standard Land Cruisers. The engine was a disaster. A very poor copy of the Chevy 6. VW may be wise limiting themselves in a declining US auto market.
It is a shame that you can't admit that hybrids and EVs are the wave of the future.
Who said anything about EVs being bad. I was very interested in EVs until the price of electricity in San Diego headed toward the heavens. You can expect cap n trade to raise those electric prices to where an EV is a marginal choice.
Below is KBB predicted resale value after 5 years ownership for the past two years.
Top 10 Brands: Top 10 Brands:
Best Resale Value 2009 Best Resale Value 2008
1. Honda 44.5 1. Volkswagen 48.1
2. Toyota 42.7 2. BMW 45.6
3. Volkswagen 40.9 3. Acura 45.4
Retained value is an important factor in a vehicle purchase. Knowing that a vehicle will actually be worth something in the future is more important than sales numbers.
VW expects to post a profit this year, Toyota expects to post a loss this year. It must be reassuring to Toyota investors that the following statement was made, jpeters1970 "The Toyota hybrid system is so advanced that Nissan and Ford have licensed the technology in their hybrids. Where is VW on that horizon? No where
What is important is the driving enjoyment obtained from driving a VW TDI that is missing from the boring appliance Prius.
There is some small hope that future vehicles from Toyota will appeal to enthusiasts as Akio Toyoda has stated Toyota must build cars that are fun and affordable. Also of note, Toyoda, 53, described himself as a "car nut" and race driver who loves the feel of a car on the open road.
"I want to see Toyota build cars that are fun and exciting to drive," he said.
I too, would like to see Toyota build cars that are fun and exciting to drive. Imagine a modern day fun to drive Celica with a hybrid powertrain.
I'd rather ride a bicycle than be stuck in a Prius every day.
Now, I have to go down to my garage and roll out on electric mode (try to keep an fumes from the garage, try doing that in a diesel ). Next, I'll be at my first traffic light in total silence listening to either Howard Stern or NPR. Now, I'll toggle my temp down just a wee (can you do that in a VW on the steering wheel?). I didn't think so. Ahhhhh the joys of owning a Prius.
That says it all. :P
Just stay on level ground and out of any crosswinds or slippery surfaces and you should be fine.
PS
Diesel is actually more expensive in some EU countries. They like to add tax to level the playing field for the poor folks stuck with gas cars. :shades:
http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm
Yes, you do have to go beyond hybrids. DSG is far more complicated.
All those gears & clutches make a person wonder why arguing against the simplicity of electric-motors and a split-device would even be attempted.
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RE: My Prius handles fine in crosswinds, windy roads etc. Tires make a HUGE difference and I changed mine out after 3 months of ownership. My rear passengers are always amazed at the roominess of the rear seats. I'd imagine I'd have to have midgets for friends if I drove a Golf. Have you ever seen that back seat? LOL
My guess is the VW 2.5L gas engine was built for the non discriminating US buyer. All they can think of is PZEV and that engine fits their PZEV just fine. I would not have one.
You should know after 6 years that you are not any more likely to convince me that hybrids are worthwhile, than my convincing you that diesels are the best way to save energy. We are at opposite ends of the political and automotive spectrum.
The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) recently praised actress Daryl Hannah ("Northfork," "Dancing at the Blue Iguana," "Splash") and rock 'n roll legend Neil Young ("Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young") for helping to bolster awareness of the practicality of biodiesel, the non-toxic biodegradable vehicle fuel that can be manufactured from recycled cooking grease.
This week, Young embarked on his Greendale Tour from Vancouver, British Columbia to Amherst, Massachusetts, fueling his trucks and tour buses with biodiesel.
A Golf TDI running on B100 is environmentally superior to a Prius running E10.
An interesting tidbit. Just looked at the top ten selling cars for August as they had the C4C deal going on. I believe Toyota was listed twice and no mention of VW. I guess people don't want to trade in their clunkers for a VW. What does that tell you!!! LOL!!!!! Heck... even Hyundai sold better than VW. Hyundai has been in the US market for such a short time in comparison to VW. Hybrids in general are going to do quite well in the years to come. There is no hope for diesels. They will sell in limited quantities to the few people that prefer NVH, foaming fill-ups, searching for diesel, and paying a buck more in the winter. Gotta love dem hybrids.
JPeters - you my friend can step down off your soap box at any time. I, and everyone else that reads this thread everyday, fully understand that you love your Prius and that you believe it is the best, most fuel efficient automobile on the road. Lots of people agree with you too as sales numbers show. But chill man. Let diesel guy drive his fuel efficient oil burner in peace. Diesel guy is trying to do the right thing buy getting a more evironmentally friendly, fuel efficient car just like you are. Prius guy and Diesel hatchback guy are not that different - do you at all understand this? I wonder if you realize how elitist you sound. Honestly don't mean to sound rude. I just think you should breathe for a moment and open your mind to the idea of a guy trying to buy a fun to drive car that is better for the planet than a R.U.G. automobie. Jiminy Christmas.
I am a recent 2010 Prius owner who doesn't give a damned about these diesel versus hybrid arguments. I am chilled, a bit too chilled to engage in these endless debates because I know I made the right decision.
I think your comment above is very one sided. The diesel folks and the hybrids folks in this forum are not going to leave each others alone in peace because the whole point of this forum is to debate the merits of owning either a VW Golf TDI or a Toyota Prius.
Chill man indeed, but without a bit of a heated debate this forum will no longer be active. Keep up the good work JPeters, Gagrice and all others..
Non-Hybrid Diesel will simply fade away as the number of those buying hybrids grows.
Being clean & efficient will include the use of an electric motor, regardless of the fuel used.
As hybrid cars gobble rare metals, shortage looms
Damage to earth to obtain an ever materials for batter production is expanding at an alarming rate.
Jack Lifton, an independent commodities consultant and strategic metals expert, calls the Prius "the biggest user of rare earths of any object in the world."
Prius may be the single most environmentally damaging vehicle.
The Chevy Volt has gotten a lot of press lately as a great solution. They base their very optimistic figures on 5 cent per KWH night rates. We don't have any night rates. It is all the same. According to my calculations the Chevy Volt will cost about 3 times as much per mile on electric only as your Prius or a Golf TDI. I doubt that any plug in will do any better based on miles per KWH.
If you will search the discussion lists you will find places to discuss diesels, hybrids, and EV's in general.
If need be, I'll retire this discussion until someone actually wants to use it to comparison shop the two vehicles in the title. :sick:
Per the article, a Prius has 1 kg of neodymium in the magnets. Current price looks like $20/kg.
Neodymium metal prices
Plus 10 kg of lanthanum in the battery. Current price of about $10/kg.
Lanthanum metal prices
Whereas nickel is about $8/lb, which works out to about $18/kg. So the 30 lbs of nickel in the battery currently costs maybe $250.
Kitco - Spot Nickel Historical Charts and Graphs - Nickel charts - Industrial metals
If you want rare, the platinum for the catalytic converter is three orders of magnitude more expensive, at about $33,000 a kg (about $1250 per troy ounce these days, roughly 12 troy ounces in your standard pound.)
A typical catalytic converter might use 5(?) grams of platinum. If I did the arithmetic right, I come up with about $165 worth of platinum in the catalytic converter.
So at current prices the rank ordering is:
Nickel in the battery: $250.
Platinum in the catalytic converter: $165.
Rare earths: $120.
Let's not get started on the cell phone batteries in landfills as well as old hard drives.
And the damage to the environment as a consequence of obtaining resources and manufacturing batteries for the Prius, what is that worth?
I guess you forgot to read this article.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN28385099
When the price is right, things magically appear. Hybrids and Turbines.. Gotta love em!!!
Oh well... I gotta glide down to Starbucks for my late evening latte. Usually a bunch of Prius folks are in the parking lot chit chatting. I feel so good to be a part of that group. Makes me all tingly inside!!! :shades:
Have you driven the current VW Golf and Jetta models? Or are you comparing a 2010 Prius to 1990 VW's?
VW TDI Great Seats
VW has better seats than Toyota, and superior interiors too.