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Comments
1. Bulletproof reliability long term
2. 19 - 20 mpg on the highway using regular gas
3. A center differential (certain models/years)
4. Towing capacity of 5000 lbs.
5. A reasonably powerful engine
6. A body on frame design with a good ground clearance for driving off road (which I do)
7. A power rear window which, in combination with a sunroof, creates a quasi-convertible
8. A small enough body to be maneuverable in tight quarters
9. Seating for 4/5
We've owned several Toyotas as well as a couple of GMC trucks, Subarus, etc. and the Toyotas have been the best built and most reliable. The natural competitor is the Nissan Pathfinder but the current generation has even less headroom than the 4runner (despite what the the headroom specs suggest). The older Pathfinders are underpowered. I fit in the Grand Cherokee (with sunroof) but its reliability track record isn't good. I do a lot of long distance driving on back roads so gas mileage really becomes an issue. So...crazy as it may sound...I think modifying a 4runner seat to fit me is my best route. I'm one of those people who open the sunroof all the time and I'd often be driving the runner with all windows down and the roof open. I almost bought a 1997 Land Cruiser but I don't think I can live with the gas mileage driving as much as I do. The 2003 4runner is very appealing but waiting until fall creates some logistical problems for the summer. I'll bet the new model has more headroom. Again, thanks for the feedback.
Sean
1) First, since there is now a preview of this SUV on the Edmund's review page, what happened to the Lexus GX-470 townhall topic group? It had some interesting links to more pics and info. Specifically it confirmed that this is a copy of Toyota's Land Cruiser Prado sold in Japan.
2) Someone please tell me there is still hope, that the new 4runner won't be based on this truck. IMHO, it's ugly, and poorly thought out (curb side opening tailgate, old school third row seats that don't hide when folded, etc...). I'm hanging my hat on the fact that in Japan, the current 4runner (called a "Hilux surfer" or something) and the GX-470 are sold side by side. Anyone know how long they have co-existed as stable mates? Maybe, just maybe, they're importing the Prado (as the GX-470) for the hi-end Lexus mark, and bringing an entirely new 4-runner to the rest of us. I hope so. Unless they signficantly alter the GX-470 for Toyota badging or bring in a completely different truck, I doubt I'll be able to give Toyota my money.
Lexus GX 470
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
To hiluxsurf:
Can you can answer my question about how long the LC Prado and HiluxSurf have been sold side by side in Japan? If it's been a while, then Toyota must see a need for two similarly sized SUV's in Japan and may see the same need here. I will admit that styling of the LC Prado is slightly more palatable than the GX-470, but it is far from inspiring and probably still not enough to pry 30K out of my wallet.
Sorry to hear about your boating accident. I have been out of action for a while. Recently I was at the dealer getting the wifes Solara servied and my sales rep told me they are heading to a ride and drive for the 03 4RUNNER soon. They didn't have an exact date or location yet, but it was soon. They indicated fall and such.
Buzz, Cliffy has been posting here longer than me and then some. He has always provided accurate (based on information available at press time) to everyone, you as I can see have never substantiated anything you posted. I can do the same as you have. Someone high up said it will rain tomorrow. Guess that weather guy was wrong.
My only option at the time. Sell it and buy back my old SUV. While it cost me money, time and pain it was the only option at the time. Knowing what I know now, and based on current lumbar set ups I will buy what I want, have the lumbar remmoved and a more adjustable one installed. I will not lose my long sought after dream.
On the flip side I have been hoping for a nice TLC, maybe a 2000 or 2001 in the next 12-18 months. There are some good deals on pre-owned and just get a CPO and not a classified ad one.
The '03 model I saw was definitely a 4Runner. It wouldn't be mistaken for anything else. The front resembled the Sequoia, especially around the hood and headlights, but the grill was all Runner.
Sides looked the same, but the rear was smooth, kind of like a blazer. It didn't appear to open from the side like the GX470. Not sure if it is a split door (roll down window) or solid (like a Sienna). Tail lights were higher and thinner than the '02.
Interior was completely changed; much sportier and more luxurious. There was a 3-circle instrument cluster like the Matrix has. I was told that the Runner will be wider, but I don't have any dimensions, options or cost information.
Delivery dates are August for the dealerships and September for the general public.
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/ToyotaMatrix/Images/Cluster.jpg
As far as third row seats go on a mid-sized SUV, I'd probably take them out. The only thing that will fit back there are dwarves, munchkins, or small dogs. The seats eat up too much cargo space for my needs, even when folded up.
Thanks for the tip on buying a used Cruiser. this may be the option I need. A guy at my local dealership recently told me about the Owner's wife returning her Cruiser in the next few months. I wonder if the vehicle was even titled...
Bob
The only thing I have going is my dealer owes me big time. I lost a bit when I had to get out of my 4RUNNER do to back problems and the bad (for me) seat design. They sold it in one day when I traded it back, and they KNOW they OWE me big time.
So in six months it will either be a TLC (or Highlander) or in 12 months a TLC or 4RUNNER (or highlander).
I agree about first year runs. Even with Toyota I am leary about it. More because they tweak a few extras the second year. Look at the highlander, the console is much nicer now.
http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/2003/v2kmdl3040spec.html
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020107na-9.htm
This one says "Independent front suspension, rear air suspension with self-leveling and standard Adaptive Variable Suspension damping.."
If you compare the wheelbase of the '02 Runner with the GX470, there is a 4.5" (longer) difference; almost 5" longer in the body.
It's been a while since I saw the video, but I don't think that it had a 3rd seat in it, although it's supposed to be an option. Sorry I couldn't be of more help on that one. It's one of my interests too. That and the V-8 are my reasons for waiting for the '03.
Again, I don't have any detail information on the new model of 4Runner. I wish I could, but it was hard enough to get what I got. I don't work directly with production and it's hard for me to get details. They are very tight lipped about pre-production vehicles, and since it's made in Japan it's even harder.
I certainly hope the price of the 4Runner is better than that of the GX470.
I also assumed the new 4Runnner would be based on this vehicle (or is it vice-versa?). And... I assumed that an IRS would be a long shot, at best. But you never know...
Bob
As for mechanical differences, the 2001 model 4runners were the first to get the TRACs system. Previous to that, the 99 and 2000 Limiteds got a "multimode" system that allowed you to select 2-wheel high; 4-wheel high (with the center diff open so that you can drive on dry pavement at any speed); 4-wheel high with center diff locked (i.e. part-time 4-wheel drive) and 4-wheel low with center diff locked. Prior to 99, the Limited simply had a part-time system.
A locking rear diff was also available on the 99 and 2000 Limiteds, which was not offered once TRACS became standard on all 2001 4runners.
My point with this post is to find out if anyone is interested in a few 4Runner circuit mods. I have the $250 shop manuals and can, disable the daytime running lights (with a better method than disconnecting pin 2...), shut off the key reminder chime, and turn the power outlets on the dash to full time (not switched) so your cell phone charges full time.
If there are any interested parties I'll post how I did those functions.
Jack.
It looks pretty good from what you see, but the not so good part is their comment that it may become a bare bones back to basics since the Highlander is there for the "leather seat crowd". If the 4RUNNER does become bigger, it should be sacrificed, I would buy it for the additional size.
Then again a CPO TLC is in my cards too.
Cheers
Pat
A salesman I talked to at the Minneapolis auto show said it would be a late availability item, depending on demand.
Your info seems to jive with his, but you are the only two people I have heard say that.
I'd like some opinions on the following, for whoever has time to reply. I've previously owned both AWD (Subaru Legacy, Toyota Previa, Toyota RAV4) and 4WD (Subaru GL, GMC Suburban, GMC Jimmy) vehicles. For rain and snow and ice I've always preferred the AWD because I don't need to worry about whether or not the road is providing enough slip to prevent binding in the transfer case. So, my 4Runner search has been focused on 99-00 Limiteds and the 2001+ models (so that I can have a center differential). Meanwhile there are lots of nice used 4Runners around w/o the center diff.
So my question is: how many of you have been using the truck in 4WD in rain, mixed road conditions, etc. for tens of thousands of miles with no problem? I know what the official recommendations are but I'm curious about what people's experiences have been. It's my sense that grippy pavement, even when wet, really isn't allowing enough slip to protect the drivetrain.
What's your take?
Thanks,
Sean Reid
Rockingham, VT
I've got a 2000 Limited with 30,000 miles and no problems. I drive mostly in Massachusetts and Southern VT (North Pownal). I just leave it in the multimode 4wd, rain or shine, wet or dry. The multimode 4wd does not lock the center differential, so that you don't have to worry about axle binding on dry pavement. In fact, I've done this towing a trailer through a snowstorm from Wisconsin to Boston, MA, and towing a trailer from Boston to Bennington, VT.
If, however, snow gets deep or the going gets rough, you can still lock the center diff (either in High or Low, which turns the system into a partime system, in which case you DO have to worry about not driving too much on dry pavement).
The 2001+ 4Runners are even better in this regard. Its much more of a set-it and forget it type system. The TRACS system gives the 2001+ 4Runners more flexibility in that the traction control system keeps wheels from spinning and losing despite the fact that all the differentials are open.
In the case of the 99-00 Runners, if one of the wheels does completely lose traction, then you need to lock the center diff to prevent slippage. However this has never happened to me driving on roads at regular speeds (including some nasty stuff the past couple of winters). However, it has happened once when slowly crawling up an icy steep driveway in VT during the big winter of 2000. However, in that case, I simply shifted and locked the center diff, no problem.
The two conditions I'm wondering about, primarily, are rain and mixed condition winter roads. It would be good to hear from people who've been using the old style runner system in these conditions. Thanks.
Sean
Thanks,
pondman
http://community.webshots.com/photo/34361696/35728062aDWJdE
http://community.webshots.com/photo/34361696/35728170fbfhLL
My lease expires in November and I am really hoping the 2003 Tundra will have the Active Trac. I could have done an early termination this month and taken advantage of some great lease deals but didn't because I'm holding out for the '03. Even the new optional LSD in the Tundra is no substitute for the A-Trac.
Thanks for providing the pics !
pondman
http://www.carparts.com/parts/newsearch2.asp?reflink=96741-0-0-0-0&sourceid=2&parttypeid=2096&itemid=8017&autoidsearch=YES
I had a friend that bought one for her Explorer. I will caution you that she found out after she got it that the mounting brackets are sold separately.
Thanks,
Sean
Thanks,
Sean