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Comments
Stay dry, and have a safe trip out to LA!
Sarah
GM Customer Service
I took it to the dealer and someone found records of other reports and said that it usually takes a long time before fixes finally become available. Has anyone pursued a class action suit like the one about Ion and Vue transmissions that GM eventually settled?
I'm sorry to hear that your Saturn died on you, and that it has a leak. If we can be of any assistance in working with your dealership, please send us an email at the address located in my profile (include your name/Edmunds username, your address and phone, the last 8 digits of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your dealership). My coworker Christina, who answers incoming emails from the forum, will assist you further.
Sarah
GM Customer Service
As you have read we too have the same issues resulting in a flooded fuse box from the the drain tubes; there was also water intrusion that killed the tailgate motor as well. We had water pouring through the visor clip flooding our passenger seat and floorboard. The first fix did not work, the 2nd day we had it home from the shop we noticed the horn didn't work and our screen on our radio/navigation was black. We took it back and sure enough there was another leak. Our seal around the front sunroof was replaced along with the glass.
With all the research we have found it's the same problem for folks over, and over again, just different authors. I feel this is a huge safety issue as well as I can't imagine if I/we were driving on the freeway and our cars decided to die. I believe these water leaks to be very dangerous when water intrusion floods fuse boxes along with the air bags.
There are bulletin's that your GM shop can see if the repairs were done to your vehicle. Even though our car had these recall/bulletins done the problem GM was hoping to prevent still happened.
Call GM as Sarah has requested you to do before you pay for any work performed.
We were told that these drain tubes that have caused so many problems for their customers were not designed to handle to much water!! Hard to believe that GM would be so negligent. These problems also devalue our cars!!
Best wishes to you!
I just had a new seal and glass installed as well as a new fuse box that was flooded and other electrical components that were damaged. Could you elaborate on what repairs where done that failed?? I'm curious if it was the same repair we had because also do to everything we have researched our faith of this working is slim.
Personally, If these issues continue I found these cars extremely unsafe and would not want to pass this on to another person and would take it to a new level with GM.
I too will never buy another car with a sunroof. Congrats on your new car!
Sarah
GM Customer Service
For whatever reason, although I have my account set to publicly show my email, it isn't (moderator? any ideas?).
No matter - you can contact me at either sarah_grace@gmexpert.com or socialmedia@gm.com.
All the best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
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Sarah
GM Customer Service
Thanks to all of you folks at GM customer service. Everyone I dealt with was very courteous and helpful. My local dealer was also excellent in working on this issue. I'll enjoy my Kia (and my trouble-free Chevy truck!!) for now, and if GM ever has a model that I'm interested in in the future, I won't hesitate to buy. Although I am no longer an Outlook owner, I am going to continue to monitor this forum to see what the outcome of all of this is. I am sure that most of us who have posted here are just working people trying to get by the best that we can, and none of us need the aggravation, worry and (in many cases) financial burden that these leaks are causing. I never had any problems as severe as some who have posted and I was lucky enough to be in a position to dump my Outlook, chalk it up as a bad memory and go on. I hope that GM finally steps up to the plate on this issue and makes everything right for all involved. These vehicles are ALL bad so it's not an isolated incident. This is an obvious flaw in the design/manufacture of this vehicle that needs a permanent fix before someone gets hurt or killed in an accident because something else caused by one of these leaks fails.
Nugget53
I've seen your posts on a few different threads, and will try to post in a few different areas to hopefully get in touch.
If you would like, we can look into recall or warranty information with the last 8 digits of your VIN, or can assist in working with a dealership to get any existing concerns diagnosed and resolved. Please send us an email at socialmedia@gm.com with more information (your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 digits of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your involved dealership).
Best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
I asked you a few questions several post back with no response so I will ask again. I have done endless research as many others on this forum have regarding the water leaks and the devastating damage's that have occurred and the problems occurring over and over again even after extending the drain tubes.
I've noticed you're on the other forums as well such as Arcadia and Enclave site regarding the same leak issue. This problem has been going on for years affecting so many owners of these cars.
Questions:
Where does the information that you read on this site go? Does the CEO of GM know of this issue? I would think by NOW GM would have come up with a repair solution especially knowing that the water intrusion floods electrical components making this a HUGE safety issue.
With all the post I have read by you throughout my research, you have gathered and read many, many complaints. Just curious what GM is doing about this and please don't tell me it's case by case, this is a massive problem people are having and they are all the same problem.
My car is going back to the shop for the third time in a little over a month. GM has been of great assistance to me, however, at this point I'm running out of faith that this will ever be resolved. I have/and pay on a loan on this car as many other owners do that is a lemon! I don't qualify for the Lemon Law. I could not in good faith sell this car to another knowing about these leak issues nor do I have enough equity, I bought the car in 6/11.
Please Sarah, let me know what happens with the info. collected or at least where does it go. GM obviously has you overseeing these forums for many reasons.
Thanks for your time.
I'm sorry that you're at the end of your rope! If you haven't already, please send an email to socialmedia@gm.com with your name/Edmunds username, address and phone, last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your dealership, as well as perhaps some details of your recent visit(s).
All the best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
For my part, we have a document separate from the database where we log instances of frequently surfacing concerns (to which I have added the Outlook sunroof concern that has been surfacing so frequently in this thread). This is sent by my supervisor off to be reviewed by somebody within GM (although I am unsure of the specifics).
As for the database -- this is where Service Requests play a very special role for us as we have codes that tie the issue at hand (leaky sunroof) to the VIN. Again, this is outside of my department and I am unsure of the specifics but brand quality may do searches by VIN increments (can look up data for model and year this way) to see what has surfaced. The same is done with data from dealerships when those who choose to do so take their vehicles in for service.
I hope that this helps to answer some of your questions. I'm sorry if it isn't complete in detail, but it's what I know!
Happy Wednesday,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
After looking over the service bulletins I got to thinking that GM put a bulletin out in 9/09 and then another in 2/10 making the public aware of potential issues and problems that can occur if not done (such as all the problems on this forum that we're all too familiar with.) These repairs have obviously failed and GM is negligent for this. There is an obvious flaw in the design/manufacture of this vehicle that needs a permanent fix before someone gets hurt or killed in an accident because something else caused by one of these leaks fails. I'm thankful my car was dead in my driveway with a flooded fuse box and I wasn't driving when it decided to die.
I couldn't agree more with Nugget53 comment, “It is obvious that this problem will never be permanently fixed for anyone unless GM steps up, takes responsibility and comes up with a new repair method. GM can say what they want, but these leaks are causing safety issues and all of these cars should be recalled.”
GM, we have a BIG PROBLEM! These forums have been monitored for years by GM, I appreciate the customer service offered as it has helped many, but, from all I've read not once have I read a satisfied repair and customer. Why?
The information regarding this problem and solution appears to be buffered by layers of bureaucracy that prevents customers to get to the truth of these serious problems. There is no access to information to solutions. This appears to be a manufacturer defect that GM refuses to expose to it's customers. The work performed suggested by service bulletins have failed. From all of our research, people had the worked performed and the very problems the bulletins were trying to prevent happened, over and over again. I have spent too much of my precious time researching this and not once have I come across one person that was satisfied and had NO more problems with leaks. They, like us thought the problem was resolved the first go around and we could put this behind us, and then, the problems continue days, weeks, months later.
We are hard working people that have too been affected by this hard economy and a car is a vital need. We expect repairs and maintenance expenses and purchased an extended warranty when we purchased our car. Many people have spent thousands of dollars to TRY and fix repairs out of pocket and have gotten no where and now have a LEMON.
Our leaks started after a rain and snow storm. At first we thought our water damage was from the storm and contacted our insurance. The call we received from State Farm was informational to say the least. State Farm stated we could not submit the claim because the water leaks with these vehicles is a WELL documented issue with GM.
Please pass this on to your supervisor so it can be sent off to GM.
Also, I'm at my wits end and please know my issue is with GM and not with you Sarah. I appreciate your response.
I really do wish I could do more for you and others who have posted. I wish you all the best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
I am just adding to the voice of many. I have sent you an email to the socialmedia address. An outtake of the letter I sent you:
First off let me say that the dealership has been helpful even when the vehicle has been left there for an extended time period. They have fixed several issues one fluid leak that I had not detected yet. There are still several outstanding issues that are of concern.
1. Well like most everyone else with the Acadia / Outlook body style it leaks like a sieve even after the "drainage hose extension" repair was done. Not only having had damp carpet I've had standing water on both the left and right front seat floorboards. As I am sure you are aware there are numerous reports, even video of the water leakage problem. Aside the the nuisance of having water poor from the headliner onto myself or my passengers it appears that water also flows around the steering column and into the Body Control Module (BCM) and free of charge it turns on the head lights then leaving you "dead in the water" until a jump can be acquired. Location of the BCM is described in the shop manual Electrical Component Locations Fig 12. Not horrible in town but a real pain when out in the woods.
Currently this is not considered a "warranty" item. My feeling is that the vehicle has leaked since I got it, it is a very well known problem to the extent that people are going to there state AG's looking for relief. It would seem GM with all the bad press of late would want to take care of a rather basic issue, it's not a convertible. I also have a concern that the drainage tubes should be handling any minimal water leakage from the sunroof seal, even if the seal is replaced why are the drainage tubes not working?
2. The second ongoing problem relates to the transmission and an apparent stuck solenoid C valve.
From my engine diagnostic program:
Trouble Codes
DTC Description ECU
P0797 Pressure Control Solenoid "C" Stuck On $7EA
P0700 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Requested MIL Illumination $7E8
Pending Codes
DTC Description ECU
P0700 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Requested MIL Illumination $7E8
P0797 Pressure Control Solenoid "C" Stuck On $7EA
Name: #######
Vehicle: 2008 Saturn Outlook 3.6L V6 LY7
Generated by ScanXL™ Professional v3.0.3 (Build
1452).
http://www.palmerperformance.com
-1-
This is an ongoing intermittent problem that will cause the vehicle to shudder, not go into reverse or the worst case so far on a snowy road put me into a snow bank causing some damage. The dealer has not been able to cause this to happen. However, I have had numerous people riding in the vehicle when it has "shuddered" and pulled to the right on a left turn. I am a ski patroller and drive a lot on snowy roads, this is rather disconcerting since sometimes there is very little but air off the side of the mountain road.
3. The dealer I believe has replaced both low beam headlights per the recall in December. It was nice that this problem has finally been taken care of. I hope the other two issues can be resolved. I am certainly not a current mechanic. However, I have rebuilt several cars, motorcycle and a couple of aircraft. I also do have a number of tools including diagnostics for the current vehicles.
Thank you for sending us such a detailed email! My coworker Christina, who responds to inbound emails from the Edmunds forum, will assist you further. If you don't hear back (sometimes there may be technical difficulties), please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Regards,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
I am posting here so there is a record of another lemon Outlook. We have a 2007 Saturn Outlook (original owners). This week we have had our 3rd leak problem. The previous two times the local GM dealer supposedly fixed it and there was no leak for a while. This 3rd time, the dealer made a lot of fuss about fixing for free and said we had to at least split the costs. Reluctantly we agreed and got it "fixed". 24 hours later it is leaking yet again.
This car clearly is a lemon. We have a faulty temperature gauge that has never been fixed despite what the Service facility claimed. We also have a squeaky steering wheel.
I would rather sell this car while it has some value left but honestly I can't do that in good conscience to someone. Besides I also was hoping to keep this as a family hauler for years to come.
Clearly this is not a one off problem based on what I am reading here.
If there is a class action lawsuit, I will happily join in as this is clearly an issue that many are experiencing.
Thanks,
Satya
-----
PS:
Sarah - I really appreciate your quick response to my email yesterday. My spouse has followed up with you now. Getting it fixed every few months even if GM pays for it is not the answer. All of us having this issue need a permanent fix.
Your not alone! Our car was in the shop for 3 weeks, the 2nd time for 7 days and we're back to the shop on next Tuesday. The last repair was a new seal and sunroof glass. Our car has suffered major damage due to the water leaks.
Did you get a recall to have your drain tubes extended? Just curious.
If these recalls and service bulletin were completed in it’s entirely and correctly, it would have stopped the leaks. I’ve heard so many times that the drain tubes cannot handle large amounts of water despite extending the drain tubes – It certainly hasn’t work for us! Recalls were performed and despite the work the problems to prevent the water intrusion and the damage it could do to the electrical components along with water in the vehicle, etc., which can cause mold happened to consumers over and over again. The water intrusion due to the faulty drain tubes that were fixed due to the recall causes deprecation in the vehicle, expensive service repairs and more importantly is a safety issue being that the water from the inadequate drain tubes floods the fuse box along with corroding and shortening out electrical components. The suggested repairs from GM to fix these vehicles that was supposed to prevent theses problems occurred and continue to happen causing major damages to many of our cars. GM put the recall out and made the public aware of the potential issues – I would think GM is responsible due to their inadequate repairs noted in the service bulletin to the dealerships to be performed to fix the problem. The repairs have failed; anyone can see that from all the posts on this forum and other forums.
I think we need to put a Facebook page up so we can gather ALL the unhappy consumers affected by GM in reference to the Saturn Outlook water leaks. That way when “Saturn Outlook water leaks” are Google like we’ve all done, a Facebook page will pop up. What will this do? It will get a good accountability and will be a place for people to come to and then, be a place to push forward for a Class Action. From all the research I’ve done and all the stories I’ve read, it’s all the same problem, just different cars. GM has not come up with a permanent fixed. I have yet to read ONE satisfied customer 2 yrs out from a repair or a permanent fix.
What do you all think about a Facebook Page? This needs to go VIRAL!!
Good luck to you Satya.
Type in Saturn-GM Outlook Lemons. http://www.facebook.com/groups/180757711936865/
As you can see from previous posts that I made, I only had the sunroof leak and agravation that it causes for a very short time compared to many others who have posted. You will also see that I am no longer an Outlook owner, but will continue to monitor this forum to see how all of this turns out. My wife and I loved our Outlook but after the leaks started and a couple of other problems popped up, I found this forum and saw what was in store for us. Also, after talking to someone outside of GM, who I consider to be an "expert" on anything to do with auto glass, who had unsuccessfully tried to repair one of these cars, it became obvious to me that neither GM nor anyone else can PERMANENTLY repair this problem using any current methods that are available. Then, I took into account all of the other problems that the leaks are continually causing and the other posts in the Outlook forum about transmission problems which also appear to be inevitable. Since I didn't like what I read here, and considering what I had been told, I cut my losses and traded. My wife frequently travels out of town alone and/or has young grandchildren in tow a lot of the time. The thought of her being stranded somewhere alone or with young children made me pretty uneasy and I got out while I could. I noticed that you said that you wouldn't feel right about selling your car and all of its problems to someone else. I understand what you are feeling and I do feel terrible that someone may purchase the Outlook that I traded and inherit the problems that I ran from; however, I really hope that a potential buyer will research the car and, hopefully, call me as the previous owner to ask about it. I'll just refer them to this forum and hope that they make the right decision. I know that if I had done the research that I normally do before making a major purchase such as a car, I would never have bought a Saturn Outlook. I am hoping that everything turns out well for all of you who are still experiencing these annoying problems. No one should ever have to continually put up with ANY of this!!
NUGGET53
Please take the time to consider filing a complaint with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) - the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) is authorized to order manufacturers to recall and repair vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment when ODI investigations indicate that these vehicles contain serious safety defects in their design, construction, or performance. I believe GM has forsaken a very large percentage of its consumer base by not adequately addressing this extremely serious problem from the beginning. It has and continues to affect all models and is a very serious health and safety issue. ODI also monitors the adequacy of manufacturers' recall campaigns and again, GM's recall campaign on this issue is absolutely reprehensible - the dealers aren't able to fix this problem even after several attempts. We have filed a complaint with our Attorney General's office as well as the Better Business Bureau, NHTSA & a letter directly GM CEO, Daniel Akerson.
The water intrusion can cause disastrous, electrical damage as it has our car. Our car remains unsafe to drive.
I won't repeat what I've said in my other posts, I will say people need to take the time and make our complaints loud and clear.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Have you opened a case with Customer Assistance yet? We can also set one up for you if you wanted to send us an email to socialmedia@gm.com with your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, brief recap of the issue at hand (I don't answer inbound emails and this will assist Christina, who does), and the name of your dealership.
All the best,
Sarah
GM Customer Service
FYI - :mad: Here it is in a nutshell! Info, from Wisconsin Lemon Law regarding the 2007-2008 Saturn Outlook. Although I don't live in Wisconsin nor does our car qualify for the lemon law I find this info. right to the point; "In sum, since its initial production, the Saturn Outlook is a vehicle that has caused undue hardship on many of its owners." Many fortunate owners were able to use the Lemon Law in their States during the designated time.
Over the years GM has notoriously recreated a particular model of vehicle to serve its many of its different brands. In the case of the GMC Acadia, GM copied this model and repackaged it as the Saturn Outlook. It is essentially the same vehicle with a Saturn logo and altered features. The difference between the two models is with the quality of the manufacturing. The Saturn Outlook has been an utter disaster when it comes to reliability. The Saturn Outlook since its inception has caused its owners to experience everything from engine, transmission, water leaks, brakes, and/or electrical system defects. New vehicles are not supposed to have problems other than normal maintenance. But the Saturn Outlook has provided many headaches for its owners.
Under the Wisconsin Lemon Law, having to present a vehicle 4 times for repairs in the first year of ownership is enough to qualify a consumer for a repurchase of the vehicle. Many Outlook owners have had to present their vehicle 5, 6, 7, or 8 times to try to fix ongoing problems. One of the most common problems with the Outlook is its inability to keep water out of the vehicle. In essence, this is a big, leaky, unreliable SUV. The other aspect of the problem with the Saturn Outlook is the perception of quality that Saturn has portrayed. When Saturn vehicles began production in 1990, the vehicles were advertised to be different than other GM vehicles in quality and in reliability. This was true at the time. But then from 2000-2008, GM seemed to gradually devalue the unique nature of Saturn vehicles and therefore Saturn fell to the bottom of the food chain with regards to quality. The ‘07-‘08 Saturn Outlooks were the results of this. Instead of being sturdy, family vehicles, Saturn Outlooks have turned out to be liabilities for families that owned them.
In sum, since its initial production, the Saturn Outlook is a vehicle that has caused undue hardship on many of its owners. The problems that it exhibits may entitle consumers to protection under the Wisconsin Lemon Law. This protection potentially could include repurchase, replacement, or cash damages. The Outlook is a case study in the importance of quality engineering, quality oversight, and quality manufacturing. The Outlook unfortunately has failed in regards to all of the above.
I contacted the MN attorney general to ask specifics about the Lemon Law since I have 60,000 and am waiting for a response. I purchased this vehicle new, and love how it WORKED for our family. I am thinking I will either have to get a bigger or smaller vehicle outside of the GM product line. Too bad because I loved my Outlook.
From one of my post:
"Please take the time to consider filing a complaint with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) - the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) is authorized to order manufacturers to recall and repair vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment when ODI investigations indicate that these vehicles contain serious safety defects in their design, construction, or performance. I believe GM has forsaken a very large percentage of its consumer base by not adequately addressing this extremely serious problem from the beginning. It has and continues to affect all models and is a very serious health and safety issue. ODI also monitors the adequacy of manufacturers' recall campaigns and again, GM's recall campaign on this issue is absolutely reprehensible - the dealers aren't able to fix this problem even after several attempts. We have filed a complaint with our Attorney General's office as well as the Better Business Bureau, NHTSA & a letter directly GM CEO, Daniel Akerson."
I love my car too and this is unbelievable what is happening. Keep in touch and let us know how it goes!
There was two bulletin's #10-08-67-001A & N080207.
Here is some info:
TECHNICAL
Bulletin No.: 10-08-67-001A
Date: February 26, 2010
Subject: Headliner Wet/Water Leak into Cab from Front Sunroof Glass (Replace Sunroof Window Weather strip/Seal)
Models:
2008-2009 Buick Enclave
2007-2009 GMC Acadia
2007-2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to update the Cause and Correction information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-08-67-001 (Section 08 - Body and Accessories).
Condition
Some customers may comment on a water leak coming from the front sunroof glass, which may result in the headliner being wet and/or water leaking into the cab.
Cause
The sunroof glass panel weather strip/seal may have failed to retain its designed shape, resulting in a water leak that overwhelms the sunroof module water trough.
Correction
Note
The sunroof glass seal is not designed to be completely water tight. Minor drips witnessed dropping into the water management system can be expected. Heavy streams of water passing by the weather strip should not be evident.
This problem is outrageous and GM needs to step up to the plate! My car is back in the shop for the 3rd time since Feb. - day 17.....
Good luck to you.
These vehicles are ALL bad so it's not an isolated incident. This is an obvious flaw in the design/manufacture of this vehicle that needs a permanent fix before someone gets hurt or killed in an accident because something else caused by one of these leaks fails.
The mold you have in your car is an added serious issue due to the failure of GM not able to fix these leaks.
You can go to the GM site and write to the CEO as we have and state your complaint too! Times are very tough for people and we are like you, we have a loan on a car that is a lemon and is now not a safe car due to the water leaks that GM is fully aware of. Exhaust every avenue to let your complaint be heard. It's exhausting and takes up precious time, however, this is so wrong and if people don't take their complaints further than this forum it will continue as usual... I think when people have these problems, GM kicks in for a few repairs (which we are all extremely grateful for) they think it's fixed and it occurs again and again. I've learned through this process to stick to the fact of the bulletins and put it back on GM when you talk to them. Stay strong and keep in touch!
I am hopeful it is now repaired. From talking to my dealership, it sounds like they paid for the work because I already dumped $400 into it. I walked out owing nothing, thank goodness!
Now I am hoping for a rain storm just to verify that it has stopped leaking! I asked GM to keep my case open until I can make sure that the problem has been solved. My fingers are crossed
I did months ago file a complaint with the feds, any clue on how many complaints launch an investigation?