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From Giant to Economy Size - Couples Choosing

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  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, she could've even gone my route - buy a smaller hoopty for cash and keep the Escalade. Heck, that beater Park Ave has turned out to be one of the smartest purchases I made. I originally got it as a winter beater 3 years ago, but it's really come in handy in these days of psychopathic pump prices. I still drive my new DTS on nicer days and for special occassions.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Today's NY Times has an article about folks who live in the exurbs:

    NY Times Article

    This is the town my wife works in. What she's told me is that she knows of many families who are either:

    A) Trading in the truck or SUV for a smaller car
    B) Buying a smaller car and leaving the truck or SUV at home
    C) Swapping cars with the spouse so as to decrease fuel usage

    There are lots of ranches out there and they all seem to have large diesel tanks, so there are a lot of VW diesels being bought. Another popular model is the Suzuki SX4 - the small wagon that gets decent mileage but still has the AWD for those days when the weather gets really nasty.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    I read that article earlier this morning. Very interesting.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    B) Buying a smaller car and leaving the truck or SUV at home

    We had a discussion in another forum about a dealer who incorporated this reasoning in their advertising. Sounds odd at first, but if the numbers are there it can make a lot of sense. Certainly more sense than taking a big hit on trade when upside down.

    Beside, trucks and SUV's were originally conceived as special purpose vehicles. They just became popular general purpose vehicles.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "If you take even a $4000 below BB hit you could buy 1000 gallons of gas which should be a years worth even with an Escalade."

    OK, that covers this year. And then...?

    I do agree though that someone who could afford an Escalade should now be able to afford to just park it except for occasional duty and buy a small gas-sipper for daily tasks. As someone else stated, people seem to have forgotten that the very purpose of SUVs originally was special duty, not daily commuting and errands. I would think in the Escalade woman's case, it would pencil out to keep the Escalade in the driveway for the occasional trip to the mountains, and buy a small car for driving around town and stuff. And when I say pencil out, I mean within five years if she buys new, maybe 3-4 years if she buys used-but-young, she will break even on the gas savings alone vs the Guzzle-lade. Depends a lot on the number of miles she drives per year, of course. If she was"desperate", I am assuming that number is fairly high.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What did the GM exec say, that 135 million hydrogen cell cars could be fueled each day by the hydrogen the oil industry presently produces to refine oil???

    Did you believe him? Is it possible he is trying to drum up more Federal money from a Congress that make chimpanzees look like rocket scientists?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Just keeping the big SUV and buying a small commuter makes the most sense to me. Most of these people owe as much or more on the SUV as it is now worth. So basically they add whatever negative amount is owed on the SUV to a new small car. That makes it more difficult to ever get ahead. It is just too bad that our schools have not taught people common sense economics instead of all the multi cultural BS they get. We are spawning generations of economic idiots. Many are already old enough to run for Congress and get elected.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    "a Congress that make chimpanzees look like rocket scientists"

    Hey, you can skip the snide remarks, sir. Equating the Congress of the United States of America to a bunch of chimpanzees is completely unfair..... to CHIMPS! Primates are sensitive, intelligent beings.

    "our schools have not taught people common sense economics. We are spawning generations of economic idiots."

    ... which makes it much easier for Congress to engage in the economic fraud it perpetrates on us. The latest is the $300 billion suckers bailout for people who bought houses with scam mortgages and now can't make the payments.

    You and I get to subsidize new loans for them so they can keep living better than we do. And the only "debate" is whether to set the loan limit at $600,000 or $700,000.

    The average homeowner in the United States has a $200,000 house. This, of course, begs the question of who is really getting bailed out?

    We'd all be better off with 435 chimps in the House and Senate. Aside from the predictable banana subsidies, they'd be much more fiscally responsible.
    .
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Yes. When you bottom line it, all people want to do is ease the pressure on their monthly budget. If their choices pushed their budget to the limit in the first place, that wasn't the most wise decision. Assuming they really could afford the payment and the fuel costs 2 years ago, it makes a bunch of sense that they probably could afford to park the guzzler and buy a sipper. Obviously there are a bunch of folks realizing that the sipper fulfills the bulk of their transportation needs. It does depend on the specific numbers. The big hit doesn't do anything but make the bigger picture even worse. Sort of a missing the forest for the trees kind of thing.

    My dad has a diesel Excursion. He used to drive a bit more, but when I visited him a couple of weeks ago he mentioned that now it doesn't get driven unless there are more than 4 people who will ride. It had been driven about 100 miles in the last 2 months. He has another truck available for hauling purposes. He has a 300 he uses for most of his driving. He just bought a Prius for running around. He can pay cash for his cars and he can afford the gas, he just doesn't warm up to just throwing money away. Certainly not everyone will have the financial wherewithal to own a personal fleet of 4 or 5 cars. I just bet that there are a bunch who could swing two and come out ahead on a monthly basis.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If any chimps are watching Edmund's my apologies :D

    I am never surprised anymore what comes out of our Congress. The home mortgage bailout being no exception. I know 3 people personally that have lost their homes. One is related to my wife. They sat across from us at our table 3 years ago trying to get us involved in their scheme. Well it went sour and they are filing for bankruptcy. They are also camping in our home that we moved out of. We are not pushing it until the market turns around. I cannot see losing a lot of equity if we do not have to. My wife and I are both very frugal so buying a car just because the price of fuel goes up, makes no economic sense to either of us. I may buy a small diesel VW Sportwagon if we like them when they hit our shores.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Filing for bankruptcy is the Genesis for compounding their problem by ruining their Credit rating. The next time they apply for credit for anything, they are sunk.

    When you sign a "Promissary Note" & grant the loan company a mortage, you are legally obligated to satisfy the agreement. Why trust a divorcee who walked away from her marriage, when things got tough, her mortage, when things got tough, and her car payments, when things got tough? Where is the committment to promises these days?

    And, why should frugal conservatives be taxed to bail out the reckless liberals? :mad:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Seems the reckless old conservatives who gained any means via cronyism and ingeritance (yes, you) who are more than happy to bend over to neocon cowardice in hopes of making a few bucks have created more ruin than the wildest "liberal".

    Please take your illiterate and credential-free political slop elsewhere.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    Yikes! Where did THAT come from?
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    That came from a member of the Peoples Republic of Puget Sound. It's the noise you get when a nerve is struck. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Just giving the whine a taste of its own medicine ;)

    The mismanaged disaster of Puget Sound or the inbred methland of SW WA...decisions, decisions
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think we've strayed quite a bit off topic, but I'll throw in my own two cents:

    I agree w/ the person who remarked that if you can afford a 'slade, you can afford to pick up another car and leave the Escalade in the garage most of the time.

    And who said you had to buy new? There are plenty of used Ford Focuses, Honda Civics, Mazda Proteges, and Toyota Corollas available on the used market... I would imagine that if you drive an Escalade, even getting a CR-V or Escape as a daily driver would ease up on the gas consumption quite a bit... (stick with the 4-cyl. Escape though)

    Better to just pick up another car than take a bath on trade-in..
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    This is not the huffingtonpost.com or anncoulter.com. Let's drop the incendiary political jabs and stick to the topic.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, if you can afford a 'Slade just buy a hooptie! Geeze, I know it was HORRIBLE timing on my behalf to buy the DTS. If I had a crystal ball and had known gas prices would rise to these psychotic levels, I'd have instead purchased a CTS or a V-6 Lucerne. However, I'm happy with the car and really enjoy it on the days I actually drive it. To tell the truth, the weather or to which neighborhood I am travelling more often affects whether or not I drive the DTS versus the fuel costs.

    What's a decent hooptie cost these days? Maybe $4K-$5K? I paid a lot less for my Park Ave. Trouble is, a lot of people don't even have the little bit of money to put toward a hooptie. Sad.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The price of gas made buying the Sequoia an easier choice. With $10k off of MSRP there is room to buy a lot of $5 gas. Even if I take it on a cross country trip it won't be that big of a deal. Many bought the 2008 Sequoia at MSRP when it first arrived. Now they are going to lose their shorts if they decide it was a bad mistake. If they keep it for 10 years no big deal.

    I would not recommend a Sequoia for someone needing a commuter for work. As you say there are a lot of 3-5 year old cars that are a lot less money and get decent mileage. Find a friend that is trading in their low mileage CamCord on a new one. You can offer them more than the dealer will give them and still buy it under BB trade-in value.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    One little fallacy in the Escalade discussion comes from the "if you can afford the Escalade you can afford".... whatever. My guess is that there are a lot of people that own Escalades but can't afford them. That is their problem for living that close to the edge but it's out there.

    Oh, and frugal conservatives and reckless liberals are about as sad a stereotype as I've heard. You'll find as many frugals and reckless folks on either side of the fence.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,381
    We currently have 2 vehicles:

    an 06 Ram 1500 Regular Cab
    an 07 VW Passat Wagon

    Passat was purchased for my wife and I had the truck. Late last year she decides she wants to quit working and be a housewife. Fine by me, luckily we could swing this financially.

    So, I start driving the Passat to work and the truck would stay idle for weeks at a time. I swore I would never get rid of it since it is paid for and we do use the "truck" functionality from time to time. Plus, I'd rather park that at the airport when I travel rather than the nicer Passat.

    Now, I have never been a car driving type of guy. Always driven a truck or SUV except for a brief lease on an Accord. I enjoy the functionality and ride height of the trucks and SUV's. So this past weekend we're bored and hit a few car dealers. We happen upon a Chrysler T&C mini van. Wow! What a nice ride. I had driven a Grand Caravan recently as a rental and was pleased with the ride, mileage etc. So we begin talking about it and last night go to take a closer look. With the Stow and Go feature there is still plenty of room for cargo. On the few occasions when we haul the dirty landscaping type supplies we figure and old sheet will give us plenty of protection.

    So our plan is to go to the dealer this weekend and trade the Ram and Passat for the T&C and a used PT Cruiser. If my numbers are met we will actually be paying less on the car note in this situation.

    I'll drive the van everyday and the PT will serve my wife well for quick trips around town. I'll use it as my airport vehicle as well to cut down on the risk of parking lot dings.

    While neither of the "new" vehicles will get as good of MPG as the Passat, we're getting 2 vehicles that are more useful and functional for our lifestyle now.

    My wife did not mind driving the Ram, but it is not the most sensible choice for quick trips to the grocery store. I believe the mini van is more than adequate for the Home Depot runs and should be an absolute pleasure on road trips.

    2021 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 4xe Granite Crystal over Saddle
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Oh, and frugal conservatives and reckless liberals are about as sad a stereotype as I've heard.

    I know you are right. In fact all three of the folks I know losing their homes are conservative Republicans. Conservative can mean so many things. Same as Liberal.

    When I think of Liberal car buyers I think of a Yugo. When really a fiscal Conservative should probably be buying the Yugo.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Ahem... again... let's just leave politics out of it since nothing in the title of this discussion implies that ideology conversation is relevant.

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  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    I sent Edmunds.com an email a few days ago asking them to write an article about the surging demand for hybrids and the disappearing demand for SUVs.

    No response yet, but I hope they follow up.

    They have a top 10 list of cars with the highest residual value. No hybrids listed, and the highest of the 10 is the Mini Cooper with about 60% after 5 years / 60K miles. But I know that used Priuses are retaining more than that, and I suspect that used Insights are, as well.

    Used '06 and '07 Civic Hybrids are selling for almost full MSRP. I did a search on autotrader.com, and I had to click "500 mile radius" just to find some. Only found six for sale, and they range in price from $23,000 to $18,000.

    The $18,000 one is a 2006 with 48,000 miles. Now, how many cars could you drive for 2 years and 48K miles, then sell for 80% of their retail prices? Plus, have the federal gov't pay you $2,100 for buying them in the first place?
    .
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The tax credits are running out at Honda, and they've expired at Toyota for a while; the only hybrids that still have small tax credits left are GM, Chrysler, and Ford...

    I'm pretty sure the less well off Escalade drivers are on leases that they can't get out of..

    Only more reason to find a clean, old Honda or Toyota to use as a daily driver and finish out the Escalade lease..

    On the flip side, my neighbor just traded a QX56 for a Sequoia.. They're small business owners, though, and probably write a little bit of the cost off for the cars, and they don't seem to mind the extra in gas.. (their other car is a GX470.. I sometimes wonder why they think they "need" 2 SUVs for 2 small kids)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    What will $7 gas put you in around 2010? :mad:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    A 72-passenger bus?

    Of course if fuel costs rise to that ridiculous level, I don't think you'd have to worry about commuting to work as you most likely will be unemployed as the oil barons and speculators ran the economy off a cliff. :sick:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Better yet, get a nice 20 year-old Buick Park Avenue with the 3.8 V-6!
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    Or a nice 15-year-old Geo Metro with a 1.0 3-cylinder!
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    So our plan is to go to the dealer this weekend and trade the Ram and Passat for the T&C and a used PT Cruiser. If my numbers are met we will actually be paying less

    You will never pay less when you trade in, for two vehicles you are taking a hit of 4-5 grand - that is enough gas to driver Ram for a year.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would trade the Ram if you really need the Mini-van. The PT Cruisers get poor mileage and like the VW have very poor resale value

    It seems like a strange swap. Keep us posted how you make out at the dealer.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    a Chevy Volt?

    I guess people will just have to budget more for gasoline- either that, or move closer to where they do most of the stuff. Lifestyle changes will be the next move...

    And not everybody is downsizing straight into the Versas and Civics of the world. You see a lot of people making a milder jump from a Suburban down into say, an Enclave or Highlander, and the Highlander drivers jumping to Accords and RAV4s, and those drivers jumping down into the Civics and Versas. I doubt very many people are jumping directly from a Suburban into a Nissan Versa.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    I heard yesterday that the Jeep Patriot is selling strong. It gets 24 mpg, and costs $17,000.

    Like you said, people are downsizing from mega-SUVs to smaller ones, not all the way to compact cars.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...saw a man talking on his cell phone while pedaling his bike oblivious to the 1988 Buick Park Avenue slightly behind and to the left of him.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    That is just too funny, sad, ironic... It certainly says something about the strangeness of the world today. :P
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    This seems a proper place to post this. Is this list complete? Criteria is new automobiles with available seating for more than 5, excluding pick-ups and full size vans.

    General Motors
    Chevrolet Tahoe/Suburban
    Chevrolet Traverse
    Chevrolet Uplander
    GMC Yukon/Yukon XL
    GMC Acadia
    Cadillac SRX
    Cadillac Escalade
    Buick Enclave
    Saturn Outlook
    Hummer H2

    Chrysler
    Chrysler Town & Country
    Chrysler Aspen
    Chrysler Pacifica
    Dodge Grand Caravan
    Dodge Journey
    Dodge Durango
    Jeep Commander

    Ford
    Ford Explorer
    Ford Expedition/Expedition XL
    Ford Taurus X
    Ford Flex
    Lincoln Aviator
    Lincoln Navigator
    Mercury Mountaineer
    Volvo XC90

    Honda/Acura
    Acura MDX
    Honda Pilot
    Honda Odyssey

    Nissan/Infinity
    Nissan Quest
    Nissan Pathfinder
    Nissan Armada
    Infinity QX56

    Toyota/Lexus
    Toyota Sienna
    Toyota Highlander
    Toyota Rav 4
    Toyota 4Runner
    Toyota Sequoia
    Toyota Landcruiser
    Lexus LX470
    Lexus GX470
    Lexus LX570

    Hyundai/Kia
    Hyundai Entourage
    Hyundai Veracruz
    Hyundai Santa Fe
    Kia Rondo
    Kia Sedona/Sedona SWB
    Kia Borrego

    Mercedes Benz
    GL Class
    R Class
    E Class Wagon

    Mazda
    Mazda CX-9
    Mazda 5

    Suzuki
    Suzuki XL7

    Subaru
    Subaru Tribeca

    Audi
    Audi Q7

    BMW
    BMW X5

    Mitsubishi
    Mitsubishi Outlander

    Land Rover
    Land Rover LR3
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    You forgot 6 passenger sedans, like the Impala, Lucerne, DTS, Town Car, and Grand Marquis, even though the last 2 are discontinued.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    If the last two are discontinued, what is coming out of St. Thomas, Ontario? ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    Edmund's shows a listing for the Grand Marquis and Town Car for 2009, so they're going to be with us for at least another year. They don't show a Crown Vic though. I'm pretty sure it's still available, but only to fleet buyers like police agencies, taxi companies, and rental car companies.

    I don't know if they're still building it, but there used to be a long wheelbase version of the Crown Vic that was built for taxi service They added about 5-6" of wheelbase to it, all of it in the back seat area. Must have made for a roomy car. Shame it wasn't offered to the general public. There was also a lengthened version of the Town Car, but I don't think they're still building it. The Town Car's extra length was also all in the back seat area. However, I think with the Town Car, they made the B-pillar thicker, but used normal sized window glass for the back doors, whereas the Crown Vic had a normal B-pillar and a longer roll-down rear window.

    I wonder how long they'll keep these things in production? They're really not that popular with the general public any more, but are still a favorite among taxi drivers and police officers. The FWD competitors just can't take the beating that the Ford Panther body can, and even when the Panthers do break, they're usually not that expensive to fix.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Hmm.. Good question.

    I just thought they were discontinued since the local Lincoln-Mercury dealer stopped running screamer ads for deals on brand new Grand Marquis and Town Cars.

    They've switched to the MKS for their screamer bargains... :surprise:

    I will say, though, that the Extended Town Car had quite a bit of legroom...
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    John Edwards would agree with you. ;)
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    My oversight. We are not considering larger sedans. Certainly they may appeal to others though.
This discussion has been closed.

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