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Intermittent engine cut-out
I own a 96 3.0l V6 Grand Voyager that developed recently a strange problem:
Most days when the car reaches normal working temperature, the engine shuts down intermittently. This may be only one or more brief jolts or it may stay off for several seconds. This happen while driving 70+ mph on the highway. Ones it passes this phase it continues to run normally for the remainder of my 50 mile commute.
A few times, the car came to a stop and it took several minutes to restart the engine and a few times the engine did not start in the morning.
It appears to be electrical in some way, since adding a charger will mostly start the engine. The battery is brand new and fully charged.
The local mechanic does not find anything.
Any idea is appreciated.
Thanks, Obelix2
Most days when the car reaches normal working temperature, the engine shuts down intermittently. This may be only one or more brief jolts or it may stay off for several seconds. This happen while driving 70+ mph on the highway. Ones it passes this phase it continues to run normally for the remainder of my 50 mile commute.
A few times, the car came to a stop and it took several minutes to restart the engine and a few times the engine did not start in the morning.
It appears to be electrical in some way, since adding a charger will mostly start the engine. The battery is brand new and fully charged.
The local mechanic does not find anything.
Any idea is appreciated.
Thanks, Obelix2
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Comments
I've checked all the electrical connections I can find under the hood and I also checked the ignition switch with an ohm meter. The only real clue I have so far is that the engine fires when the ignition switch is in the 'start' position, but it dies as soon as the switch is released to the 'run' position. I'm guessing that the engine electronic control unit is at fault, but it would be helpful to know how your situation was resolved.
Thanks,
wurz
It may be the MAS (Mass Airflow Sensor) that is causing the issue. I had a very similar problem with a Subaru Outback many years ago, where it would randomly stall (typically approaching or leaving an intersection). No CEL, no other symptoms. I wasted several hundred dollars on "diagnostics" with no success when one mechanic suggested it might be the MAS. I found a used one for relatively cheap, installed it, and never had that problem again. Now, here's the interesting thing.... about five years later, I gave that same MAS (the one I removed from my car) to a fella who had his go out. He cleaned it up (I think he took a carburetor cleaner to the sensor element) and it worked just fine for him for over a year.
So, maybe yours just needs to be cleaned?
I sprayed the throttlebody last night with trottle cleaner which seems to have helped, but it's too soon to tell for sure. I like your idea and will also try cleaning the MAS. Thanks for the tip!
1. cleaned throttle where air comes in - helped a little
2. checked EGR valve, it could stuck open: disconnect the vac. tube from it (put something on the end of the tube to prevent vacuum leak). It will pollute, but if it stabilized then EGR is bad. That was my case - replaced EGR, runs good since.
Good luck.
Murphy's law.... Every time I went to rescue the van, it started right up wehn I got it to my shop. I don't recall it ever cutting out going down the road. I do remember my buddy BEATING the dash wehn it would not start, an dit finally did start for him.
The Dutch AAA (I live in the Netherlands) checked everything they could think of, but couldn't find a clue why it didn't work. After an hour or so the mechanic called the helpdesk and they instructed the mechanic to remove the heating panel (just 4 screws) and unplug and plug the 2 plugs you find on the back of the panel. That did it! The reason: A bad connection (ground) gives the wrong signal in the computer. BEATING the dashboard MAY have had the same result!
Starts fine. Runs 10 to 20 minutes (longer on a super cold day), then cuts off entirely. Cuts off quicker at higher speeds. Pull over dead, try ignition, nothing whatsoever. Wait 5 minutes, starts up fine and runs for 5 minutes then dies again. I did this 6 times on my 1/2 hour way home last Thursday night. First time I called AAA, then started and went, called AAA back to cancel and it died second time. No tow that night.
Last night, a new problem. ran it, it died, I pulled over, waited 5 minutes, now it turned over but wouldn't start (previously it wouldn't even turn over). BUT after an hour, it did start right up and I drove it back home again, no problem. BUT a new thing, suddenly the speedometer is stuck on zero.
Tried an ignition coil, no help. Tried a cam sensor, no help. ($160 for parts I put in myself) It says "thank you for the contribution, but we're not fixed yet". Is there a quota of wasted money beyond which it will just fix itself?
Could be an interruption in charging....because another problem is some sort of power leak that will drain the battery just below starting capability in only 5 minutes or 10 of leaving the interior light dimmer control any where but OFF.
BUT Alternator tests good at 14.5 V, AND battery will still start the vehicle on a 5 below zero morning.
This fault caused the car to start and cut out moments later, or the instrument cluster would fail while driving and not start the next time. The remedy that i had been using prior to taking to NAG was to disconnect the battery for 1+ hours and the problem seemed to go away for varied periods of time. This remedy i discovered after charging the battery when the fault first appeared any eliminating the fact that the battery was already fully charged.
After having the car for 4 days NAG contacted me and i was told the car was ready to be picked up but further work was needed as they had not fixed the problem and were in fact not sure what the EXACT problem was. i attended, paid and attempted to start my vehicle. This was to no avail, the car would not start. A technician came out to the vehicle and tested it again with some sort of computer and said that there was nothing he could do and that i needed to order the parts suggested on my receipt. (See attachments)
I disconnected the battery and an hour or so later reconnected it, started the car and drove home.
Not wanting to spend $287 plus labour and probably $2213 plus labour as recommended in the receipt from NAG, on a car that now has a market value of approx. $5000 I persevered with disconnecting the battery.
The fault increased in frequency to the point that it was happening every day until on the 30/09/2011 the car failed to start at all and was towed home by NRMA. When the patrolman attended he informed me that that the fault was the immobilizer and i should see an auto electrical company to look at it. I told him the story from NAG and he said that VERY RARELY do computers and skims need replacing and that by his testing it was most likely the immobilizer.
By chance that night while looking for a local auto electrician on the internet I found the following information. (Links to these pages and information listed and the end of this information)
My summation of this information is that there is a COMMON fault in the Chrysler 1997 – 2002 model Voyager WORLDWIDE as listed in all the links and blogs I attended. This common fault is the same as my vehicle was displaying.
I note that a number of these stories included people spending 1000’s of dollars/pounds replacing the exact parts recommended to me to be replaced by NAG.
Using the steps and procedures listed in these web pages I fixed my own car in an hour and a half by locating a loose terminal as described, located behind my instrument cluster. The problem is now GONE.
A number of other further websites and blogs spoke of other wiring issues, all including earthing issues behind the instrument cluster or in different locations behind the dash, BUT ALL OF THESE WIRING FAULTS HAD THE SAME OUT COME. Car starts and then cuts out with warning light on dash.
I approached NAG in good faith, believing that they are the foremost authority on the operation and service of my 1999 Chrysler Voyager and asked them to diagnose the fault in my vehicle. They failed to do so correctly and in turn I was charged $143 to be told I needed to spend another $287 plus labour and if that did not fix the problem another $2213 plus labour.
Clearly in hindsight this would not have fixed my problem.
I contacted the service manager at NAG and explained my situation. I requested that my $143 be refunded due to the reasons listed above and in turn offered him the details of the web pages and blogs that let me fix my vehicle so that that he and Chrysler may better service their customers in the future with this particular fault.
He refused a refund but was more than happy to take the information.
LINKS
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=56470
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Chrysler-Repair-807/f/Voyager-Immobiliser.htm
http://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/general-tech-11/grand-voyager-1998-3-3-immobi- liser-problems-4653/
http://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/chrysler-voyager-town-country-21/98-voyager-s- tarted-ran-2-secs-stopped-will-now-not-turn-over-12222/
http://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/chrysler-voyager-town-country-21/immobiliser-- issues-12052/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/landar/show/with/3474557830
All of that ended yesterday. Thank you so much for making the effort to share this information!!!
Regards,
Scott
I know this is a 3-yr. old post but I am so glad I found it. Have been having the intermittent activation of the anti-theft system and loss of the instrument cluster lights on my wife's 98 Grand Caravan. Very, very frustrating as we've been stranded a number of times. Banging the top of the instrument cluster works....for now. I can't wait to take the instrument cluster apart this weekend...as I'm sure it's a bad solder connection.
Thanks again!
naperjohn