What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

crkyolfrt · August 2013

Oh..yes..you are correct..phew..

Still though...personally I'd have a bit of a hand shake as I was diluting my (apprx 10 Imp gallon tank if memory serves?) with gas..

Nowadays you can usually start to see your mpg progressively fall like clockwork starting in Sept (ya they seem to start early on the 49th) and get lower and lower come Nov. By then they got us on full-on winter fuel.

When I last had my diesels, I used to buy up summer fuel in jerry cans and do my own mix depending on the wx we were having at the time. I musta been getting my ratios right cuz have never had a waxing issue yet..touch wood..

But nowadays, I think that most new tech uses fuel line heaters present even at filters, not only to assist cold wx starting, but as part of the normal emission and mpg expectation systems.

gagrice · August 2013

In the Arctic all we could get was number one diesel, AKA kerosene and JetA. That was to avoid gelling. Ran fine, not sure how good the mileage was. mostly short 2-3 mile trips.

crkyolfrt · August 2013

I think there would be a quite a noticeable efficiency hit on D1, if you ever checked it up there. No free rides..even with a diesel.

cdnpinhead · August 2013

No free rides..even with a diesel.

That's why bunker fuel (for ships) needs to be heated to even flow.

It's all relative.

gagrice · August 2013

Our mechanic filled the trucks each morning from our gravity feed tank. No one worried about how much was being used. It was oil that paid our wages.

stever · August 2013

Don't forget the zero-mpg idling time. That was what - September 15 to June 1? :shades:

Really should be looking at gallons per mile.

ruking1 · August 2013

VW T TDI = .03125 gal., :confuse: translation 4 oz, :confuse: translation 32 mpg.

So here is a good one, if you are trying to keep awake while heading down the desert highway, what percentage over .03125 gal does it take to run the A/C? :sick: Diesels are also normally express in operation per hour.

So you know why the Hubble Telescope had to be fixed (in space no less) right? Some engineer or groups of them did calc 's in metric and didn't translate to ENGRISH measures ! Or was that the other way around? :sick:

Looks like we are setting up those two ROGUE agents from Cincinatti for the fall? BAD VIDEO ! :P

xwesx · August 2013

The folks I've talked to about summer vs. winter diesel efficiency state that the seasonal difference is significant (~35%). Seat of the pants: Given that all the gasoline vehicles I use tend to be ~20% different by season, I'd attribute around 15% (if not a little more) to the fact that D1 has less energy per gallon than D2.

Of course, the easier way to do that would be to look up the BTU difference between the two, but that would require a little research, and I'm not up for that right now..... :P

gagrice · August 2013

Got to the dealer 2:45 and it was sitting out front ready to go. Salesman spent hour and 45 minutes showing us all the different gadgets including linking my wife's old Cell phone. It was running most of the time with the low fuel indicator on. Had 38 miles when we picked it up. They trucked it from AZ. I think this saddle brown is lighter than the other one we looked at. My wife went over every inch of the outside looking for dings, dents or chips. It is clean. No flaws or chips in the glass. When we were about done with orientation he said let's drive across the street and fill it up. That was a first for me on new vehicles including the Passat TDI I bought in Portland. One tire was over pressure one pound so we swung back through the shop and the Salesman adjusted it. What a pleasure dealing with VW of Kearney Mesa.

By contrast when we bought the new Sequoia it was basically handing us the keys and a handshake. That Toyota dealer is out of business. I found a flaw in the glass when we got home and Toyota would not fix it. Tailgate lifts never worked well and they would not replace. Good riddance to Toyota. My Wife's GD is loving it as a kid hauler. It is a big safe SUV and still under the 7 year warranty I bought. I wish her well with it.

The trip home from the dealer was hell. If I had to fight that kind of traffic every day going to work and coming home I would slit my Wrist. Or look for a job elsewhere. Oh, I guess that was what I did do because of stinking traffic in 1970.

stever · August 2013

Kewl, and you even got a free tank of ~~gas~~ fuel. :shades:

Please take a few minutes and visit the Dealer Ratings and Reviews link under the Car Reviews tab above and write up a review. Thanks!

What'd you do, get on the 805 or something going home?

fintail · August 2013

Fun day! Now you can get into the diesel habit of at least loosely tracking mpg. I didn't track mine today, average speed on my drive home from work was 14mph - I don't want to know :sick:

ruking1 · August 2013

Congratulations, on your new VW T TDI, Luxury, White on Saddle Brown !

To add to your (flawless) inspection experiences, all three of my TDI's were also. I am glad to see that seems to be a goal VWA and dealers shoot for. It is nice to know the dealers all top off the fuel tank. Your salesman's 1.75 hour talk brought a smile to my face. Mine spoke like an auctioneer in full sales mode, for app the same time as yours spoke.(2 hours) I actually went back for the customer satisfaction first visit and asked to get the once over (30 days later) @ that time I got a salesman who hailed from where the Touareg was made, so I got another hour on the European slant to this model, and another 1.25 hrs on the functionality and 15 min Q& A. I take it you and your wife had a good experience ! ?

TMI: low fuel warning lamp/buzzer on the VW T TDI normally comes on a little after 23 gals/26.4 gal tank. So in effect, you had app 3.4 gals to find fuel. So how much D2 did it TAKE in the real world?

gagrice · August 2013

We came across the 52 from the 163. 5 oclock traffic. I will leave a review. Plan to take a mountain cruise up for breakfast in the morning. Wife's turn to drive. It is nice handling and Sirius helped the sections of stop n go traffic. Wife is reading the manual right now. I just get in and drive. Do have to set up Homelink in the morning for the garage door.

gagrice · August 2013

I was so excited to get on the road I did not pay attention to how much D2 he put in. I know he popped it twice. He also told me any time he is there to come in and he will fill it up for us and give it a wash. I also found out a loaner comes if they need to keep the vehicle. Not with Toyota it don't. You are right VW is serious about service. At least this dealer. Part of Group one.

gagrice · August 2013

Just looking at the laminated Monroney Sticker laying in the back. It has a dealer added equipment sticker taped to the back. Our sale was based on the MSRP of $55,235. The dealer had installed a Desert Protection package $695, 5 year warranty vehicle recovery $229, Window tint $399 and lifetime Nitrogen for $99. For a total price of $56,657. The way it was taped to the back of the sticker you would not see it. It came from a dealer in Scottsdale.

Googling the package it seems buyers from the AZ dealer this car came from were dinged from $1000 to $1700 for the Desert Protection package. Still don't know what it is or does.

ohenryx · August 2013

msg 10308 Gagrice You are right VW is serious about service. At least this dealer.

The ex and I purchased a Passat in 2008. The dealer we purchased from didn't even get all of the film off of the paint. And one of the rear fenders was missing a brace and flopping in the wind. Luckily for us, the dealer we used for service was exemplary. With VW, it seems to vary quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

msg 10303 gagrice Salesman spent hour and 45 minutes showing us all the different gadgets including linking my wife's old Cell phone.

My most recent new car delivery was not as pleasant, and they did indeed hear about it when I filled out their survey.

Congratulations on your new ride! Many miles of happy motoroing.

stever · August 2013

My sister had a '00 New Beetle with the usual electrical problems they were noted for (mostly the windows). The dealer was just awful but around '06 they must have overhauled the management because they got a lot better. They got so much better my sister put VWs back on her shopping list again, after swearing them off for good a few times. Don't know if VW corporate yelled at them or what but something sure made a difference.

gagrice · August 2013

With VW, it seems to vary quite a bit from dealer to dealer.

That is a fact. The dealer closest to us would have had our business. But they tried to pull a fast one adding $999 to the lease deal they emailed me. And it was not that great of a deal before the bump up. I think waiting was our best move. We got exactly what we wanted and a dealer I feel will be there. Our salesman has only sold two Touaregs in 9 months on the job. But he knows a lot about it. He said the dealership sent them to school on each model.

He pulled out the heavy rubber mats and replaced with the carpeted ones. The retainers are really slick on the Touareg. No big hook in the floor to snag your shoe getting in and out. They also have the retainers on both sides of the carpet so it stays straight. On the Sequoia it was always working its way around with the single hook in the floor. Probably an after thought when people were getting the floor mats jammed into the accelerator. If I trade in 3 years, I will have those very nice rubber mats to put back in.

ruking1 · August 2013

I have been a rubber mat convert for a lot of years. Dirt that finds its way into "fabric" carpet, almost literally does not come out, short of replacement. In the best and worse cases, one can wash a rubber mat, air dry it and its good to go back in, aka CLEAN. In most cases, I just unsnap it, (being careful to keep the dirt on the mat) use a nylon tool bench brush to (to get in the curved grooves) and it is normally just fine.

dave8697 · August 2013

At times, gas is $3.45 and diesel is $4. That makes a 30 mpg gas car on par with a 35 mpg diesel for total fuel cost. Other times the gap is smaller or larger. I fix my own cars 95% of the time, so why would I want to have to learn to fix a new technology? That also applied to EVs. My issue is getting efficient cars under the right foot of more of my family, not getting to $4 fuel. My wife gets 12 mpg avg in the winter, driving the Astro on 10 mile round trips. I manage over 30 mpg avg from my 4 cyl mid-size car. I drive 4 times as much distance but sometimes I think if we traded vehicles, my fuel costs would not even go up. She'd get 27 mpg and I'd squeeze 20 from the Astro.

ruking1 · August 2013

As you imply, the system is rigged. The VW Polo TDI that gets app 75 mpg is BANNED (through a series of economic and emissions obstacles). So as you ask the question: why would one want to drive a 30 mpg car RUG/PUG when one can drive a 75 mpg (D2) car? The system even as it celebrates the 50 mpg Prius for easily a decade (took several redesigns before the average drive COULD get 50 mpg) , really does not want a "wholesale" switch to 50 mpg vehicles (be they hybrid. D2 or RUG/PUG), especially @ this time. I can easily get 38-42 on a 04 Civic (sub $13k) Again, why would one want to spend $12k + plus more for a glorified Corolla ? Why not keep your Astro? (van?) NO payments are a VERY VERY good thing !! ??

On the other hand, if one has a good diesel, the same applies. I have an 03 Jetta TDI with 180,000 miles that STILL can nail 44 to 62 mpg (50 average) and I am shooting at the least for 400,000 miles before a new clutch job.

stever · August 2013

Trouble is, new gasser technology isn't getting less complicated either. So the expense and training necessary to fix a new gasser may not be any cheaper than on a diesel (or an EV for that matter).

That's one excuse I use to justify driving my 14 year old van.

ruking1 · August 2013

A good reason to shoot (short term) for 25 years on 2 TLC's 1994/1996.

slorenzen · August 2013

Awaiting (not so) patiently...

:P

xwesx · August 2013

You know, as much as that electrical gremlin on the Dodge GC drove me insane, I actually thought about waiting for the new owner to come back to it the other day when I saw it at Safeway to see if they'd sell it back to me. :sick:

gagrice · August 2013

We just got back from driving an 80 mile loop in the Mountains. Up to 6000 ft and back near sea level. The computer says 25.9 MPG for the tank so far. That includes driving it home from the dealer in rush hour stop and go traffic. I think I am going to like this a lot. Had a great breakfast over looking Cuyamaca lake. Sitting on the deck 75 degrees, was perfect. Great morning great Ute so far.

slorenzen · August 2013

Congratulations!

Beautiful rig.

stever · August 2013

Yeah, really like the white.

The car, not the hair (my beard is the same color as yours lol).

You're going to drive us crazy with the mpg reports; we'll have to rely on the computer read-out since it'll be three months before you fill up again.

michaellno · August 2013

wow .. 25.9 MPG. My '06 ION struggles to get that in mostly city driving; even with some highway thrown in, I get around 26-28.

To get that with something as large as the T-Reg is pretty impressive.

If I ever come into a large sum of money that I could spend on transportation, I'd certainly consider it. Sounds like a great long distance tourer - a tank and a half to get from Denver to LA.

crkyolfrt · August 2013

So's mine..haha In fact there's a good chance the majority on this forum are white, lol

It looks good, although it looks like it has the big wheels and consequently low(er) profile rubber...probably part of the Lux Pkg

Love the style of wheels though

I think you will exceed Ruking's mileage by a fair bit, since I don't think you plan to do as many mountains or run as loaded as he does..altho that is yet another joy with easily exploited torque...loads don't make a huge difference. So opposite of gas jobs. That 25.9 on 1st ~~tank~~ check, is very impressive for a brand new tight rig.

stever · August 2013

At least I still have hair and it's mostly dark yet. :shades:

"Once the whole emissions thing has been overcome, the typical sticking point for diesels in the U.S. is always cost. Diesel engines are expensive, so you pay up front for whatever efficiency you gain on the back end.

In the case of the GTD, Volkswagen officials told us to expect a starting price similar to that of the GTI. They also told us the GTD could arrive with a highway rating approaching 40 mpg."

For the good stuff that I didn't cherry pick out, check out the review:

2015 Volkswagen Golf GTD First Drive

gagrice · August 2013

If you look on Fuelly.com the average for the Touareg TDI is 26 MPG over all. I am anxious to get out on the open road and see what it can do mileage wise. 100 miles of up and down hill driving is not the best test. I will know more when I fill it again. Right now it has barely moved off the full mark.

gagrice · August 2013

It looks good, although it looks like it has the big wheels and consequently low(er) profile rubber...probably part of the Lux Pkg Love the style of wheels though

I would have rather had the 18" that comes on the sport models. I wanted the luxury features. I do like the wheels as they are simple and easy to clean. I don't look forward to replacing the tires. They are Goodyear Eagle LS2 265/50R 19" 110H. I have never been a Goodyear fan. Tire rack lists them at $293 each. They were made in Germany. I can buy higher rated Pirelli tires for less.

ruking1 · August 2013

I do not know the mileage on your new car break in. I would SUGGEST VERY gentle "equipment" break in, specifically: 500 miles ( min) to a more ideal of 1000 miles at speeds nte 65 mph and ideally 55 mph. The emphasis on the " GENTLE equipment " break in are the tires, alignment, brake pads, rotors, suspension.

Probably of lesser priority, but equally important are to ID any deficiencies for the next service or special warranty visits to the dealer. Hopefully these will be NONE to few.

But on the other hand, the warranty periods ARE the best time for stuff to crap out and get fixed. (new customer (30 days), 12 mo 12,000 miles pretty much fix anything (except customer abuse) , 3 year/36,000 miles, 10 year/100,000 A/T, 12 year rust through, etc.

This is true if you see yourselves keeping it beyond so called "normal mileages" and time frames.

As this is going on, I would also go for a slightly to moderately aggressive engine break in. Practical terms , nte 75% of redline (redline being 5,100 rpm or: 3,825 rpm. ) The use of the so called "shiftable" gate is very helpful here (gears 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1) So, do not be afraid to take rpm to 3,825 on the UP SHIFT and probably equally importantly on the DOWNSHIFT. Again, NTE 55 to 65 mph (500 miles to 1,000 miles). By 5,000 miles and certainly you should experience slight increases to MPG (1 to 3 mpg like for like conditions)

Here is a link to some of the why's and how's Things To Do For The Life Of A Diesel Engine

So here is to HAPPY new car break in !!

gagrice · August 2013

But on the other hand, the warranty periods ARE the best time for stuff to crap out and get fixed.

I did buy an extended warranty with $0 co-pay. It is 4 years 48k miles. It includes belts, alignment, service and one complete brake job. That was an additional $975. That is the only extra I bought from the factory warranty. My idea is to trade after 3 years. Whenever there is another killer deal.

I am lovin' the Touareg entertainment system. It has slots forCD/DVD & 2 SD cards along with 20 GB of HD for MP3 music. It seems to read my 16 & 32 GB SD cards fine. It has a great interface for all my ripped CDs. I used to carry copies of my original CDs. I never use the originals except for ripping and making backup copies. It has several ways to list by artist, album favorites etc. Copying from the SD cards to the HD is a snap. After we had a CD jam in the Sequoia NAV we did not use it after it was replaced. This is great plus SiriusXM if we decide to continue the service. SiriusXM traffic is paid for 4 years. So far have not found anything they left out.

gagrice · August 2013

So far I have kept it under 70 MPH. I did kick it a couple times from 30-65 getting into traffic. It has plenty for smooth merging. I will try to do varied driving with no Cruise for the first 1000 miles.

ruking1 · August 2013

( $718) Parts alone (not including labor) for the VW Touareg's (adapted from Ferrari's F 430) brake system. There is a GOLD lining JUST in the so called "complete" brake job !! Don't get rid of the thing until your first BRAKE JOB !!!!! :shades: Then when you sell it you can tell em you got a full brake job !!!! ???

:shades:

I can understand why you like the sound system. :shades: It is VERY cool! When my kids found out the 2012 Touareg could run the MP3, they got me one (BD) . I am sure they can run their IPad and IPhone music through it like they do at my house, but right now that is beyond my pay grade. Each also could watch separate and several full length movies on a 3 hour trip to Tahoe, CA. It is hard to beat a Sirius subscription for 4 years, included in the price. The rear facing console has a low watt A/C plug for charging. L's G !

OOOO ! I am glad you mentioned NO cruise control (greater audience) , I just assumed you knew that, seemed redundant to mention it.

stever · August 2013

Nah, do like the motorcycle crowd and drive it like you stole it. Chances are the engine was pushed to redline at the factory anyway so I'd be more concerned about bedding the brakes in.

Does the manual even recommend a break-in? Lots of manufacturers don't any more.

HDD instead of a SSD? They cheaped out eh?

ruking1 · August 2013

I did not go through (formal) brake pad bedding in and rotor conditioning. (procedures are described by some after market brake pad vendors- close to a series of panic stops) Given the inspected and measured wear, I swag a minimum of 80,000 to 100,000 miles from the oem pads/rotors. (Pagid/Brembo) I just used firm pedal pressure (no panic stops) and harder, albeit shorter braking rather than longer and gentler braking. One example of many "bedding procedures"

It probably needs to be said that motorcycles really have much higher red lines (Ducati ST3 say NTE 9,500 rpm). This is not to mention that there are even far less diesel motorcycles than diesel cars percentage wise.

But probably the importance of the whole gasser vs diesel difference is really at work.

In addition, for TDI's 2,100 rpm (/5,100 prm= 41% of red line) in 8th speed and or D converts to 81 mph. (this happens to be an optimized RPM for all systems: best for designed temp operation, max torque, turbo operations - vanes movement, DPF optimum consumption, less regens, A/C, Heat efficiencies, mpg, etc., etc.) In AZ , where almost all AHP cruisers use radar guns, that just might warrant an undue customer service call ! ?

gagrice · August 2013

( $718) Parts alone (not including labor) for the VW Touareg's

I had no idea. Thought it was probably around $500 for a brake job and $150 for alignment. So the extra year and 12k miles under warranty seemed like a decent deal for $975. It was $1700 until I said, "I don't think so". Overall no real pressure on the add-ons like GM, Toyota and Nissan.

HDD instead of a SSD? They cheaped out eh?

This is a good point. Though with two SD slots I can add a couple 32 GB cards and have more than enough. I loaded 100s of tracks and used less than a quarter of the available HD. I think the CD will be a medium of the past in a couple years. What will I do with the 100s of blank CDs from my Karaoke recording days?

stever · August 2013

I'm getting ready to glue one of my old "coasters" to the bottom of my "spare" (i.e., camping) Melita #6 filter cone so it won't fall out of the thermos when I make coffee half asleep in the morning.

Otherwise - maybe skeet shooting?

Don't keep me in suspense; what, if anything does your manual say about breaking in your new rig?

(That's one irritating thing about VW - they, and Audi and Porsche, don't publish manuals online so it's hard to look stuff up if you don't have a hard copy. Well, Isuzu doesn't either, but they are gone. The idiots at Suzuki charge to download one, which is enough to make me say forget looking at the SX4. Saab and Saturn manuals are still around and still free to download. Yeah, that's a peeve of mine.)

gagrice · August 2013

You're such a kidder. I don't read the manual unless I absolutely have to. It is very thick with real fine print. My wife started reading it the other night. As she took the second leg of our first little drive. I had he look up programming the garage door opener. So far everything you really need is available with menus in the infotainmentNAV system. Including the prescribed tire pressure and actual pressure on each tire. Of course it has all the usual oil level and time and miles to next oil change.

Oh all right I will look:
Says break in engine gently for the first 1000 miles. Do not exceed 2/3rds throttle. Do not go too slow either. About what ruking and others advised. Page 474 of the manual. about a paragraph long.

stever · August 2013

Thanks.

I read 'em before I buy a new car (of course the one back in '98 was only 200 pages long, tops). Read the Prius V manual a few months ago (another painful one - free download, but it's chapter by chapter).

Don't forget to read the separate nav manual. That's probably only 150 pages. :shades:

highender · August 2013

Still recognize a few names from 10 years ago, the IDNLSUVWDU threads...haha.

Well, update is that in 2006 I took Rukings' advice and bought a diesel 2002 VW Jetta TDI..... absolutely fabulous. Ran 100 % biodiesel on it, did many maintenance and modifications myself.

but last year, June 2012 , I was going 75 mph on I 5 near Bakersfield, and the car tire treads separated, fishtailed, and went into a rollover and slid over 100 feet into farmfields.... car was completely and utterly totalled, :sick: but I came out alive, which surprised the fellow good samaritans who stopped, the CHP officers, and tow truck drivers.

Sold the Cayenne turbo. Bought another diesel 2012 Jetta TDI, which is nicer but cannot take more than 5% biodiesel. ( arguable).

Sold the 2004 Corvette Z06 twin turbo with 1143 horsepower.

Luv the diesels............. Thanks rukes.

ruking1 · August 2013

Thank God you or yours' were not hurt or injured @ all !! Given your harrowing experiences, it might be a dumb question to ask, on what brand of tire did you have the blow out? :sick: :lemon:

2009 Jetta TDI on this side. It is running really nicely. Strictly from a constant improvement point of view, I think the later (like yours) DEF systems are better than the 09 dedicated (non DEF) emissions system.

I hope to see you at the next NorCA GTG !

gagrice · August 2013

Don't forget to read the separate nav manual.

It is part of the main manual, along with all the infotainment. So far it is all pretty intuitive. Took a bit to find the altitude indicator.

There are two small manuals on using your cell phone and syncing the two. Then a warranty and maintenance manual. I a nice case with magnetic flap. So far everything is first class. Could be the fact it is their halo vehicle.

gagrice · August 2013

I knew that handle. You were one of the few that did not hate SUVs. Glad to hear you survived that horrible accident. VW always gets top ratings in crash tests. I don't want to prove them right. Where did you get the B100? I don't think anyone in San Diego area sells it. If a major company sold B5 I would run it for sure. I think that is more of a EU fuel.

I am surprised you did not trade the Cayenne for either a Touareg or Cayenne TDI.

stever · August 2013

Wow, I knew you got a hot vehicle but you must really be flying. :shades:

In honor of Tidester, I have to point out that the gizmo should be called an elevation indicator.

But knowing California, maybe you meant attitude indicator and the spell checker didn't catch it.

gagrice · August 2013

You are correct. I expected the GPS device to give me a precise elevation reading. It varies by several feet in a very short time, sitting in one location. An Altimeter uses atmospheric pressure to determine the distance above a known level. I guess knowing exactly what elevation you are at driving down the highway is not real important.

That said, does it mean that a GPS location is only 2 dimensional?

crkyolfrt · August 2013

I discovered the same thing with my (relatively expensive) hand held GPS back when they were only out for about 2 or 3 years. I wanted one with an altimeter, but soon discovered it was all over the place even standing still. Later as I got to thinking about it, I realized (assumed?e?) that it coordinates altitude by the various satellites it locks onto. But because we are in rotation, some satellites will drop out and others will kick in, thereby altering the relative coordinates to the GPS itself. If I have assumed this incorrectly though all these years, someone put me straight?

The whole sat thing boggles my mind to this day. You set up a sat dish on the edge of the house and 10 years later it hasn't faltered with its lock on that sat. (except for atmospheric conditions or a jet or bird flying by of course) What makes this amazing is when you are adjusting it to find the sat during install, the slightest torque on the dish one way or the other with your pinky finger is all it takes to lose the sat.

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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