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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited September 2013
    Who is really likely to compare the smaller MDX to the GL350 Bluetec? The GL is 1200 lbs heavier. It is a true Luxury vehicle. Fuelly.com has over 100 of the MDX owners reporting their mileage and the average is 18 MPG overall on Premium gas. The Touareg TDI which is closer in size to the MDX has over 100 posters averaging 26 MPG. 31% improvement in mileage. Even though it is almost 700lbs heavier than the MDX. And is tow rated at over double the MDX. I don't see why anyone would buy an MDX to tell you the truth. I tried them out in 2007 and they were not even up to the Toyota Sequoia in comfort and ride. If you haul a lot of people the Honda Odyssey would be a better choice.

    If people think cross shopping a VW SUV to a Mercedes or BMW SUV is strange, the Acura would really be a stretch.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    ..."the new DI gas engines have narrowed the gap considerably."...

    lol...
    14 city...hilarious..

    he's been drinking the CR Kool Aid err, gasoline..
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    The 2014 MDX is 276lbs lighter than the previous model with less HP. Still respectable 0-60 times. But I cannot find a single off road review for them. Maybe they are like the RX, not recommended for off road usage.

    For the hardcore MDX crowd they have their own thread on the new 2014 MDX. Here is a post I thought quite interesting from the biggest MDX fan on the thread.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f269c17/40#MSG40
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    Sort of a related, but longer term point, is that resale values (while not guaranteed) are normally higher for like model diesel engines than the gasser options.

    So for example 03 Jetta $1,405 more for a diesel or 31% better. @ the time I paid a $236 premium.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    I think Acura needed/wanted to "improve" the EPA ratings, so the Honda Odyssey (minivan) platform was jettison in favor of the RX platform with a few more options and probably some de contenting.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited September 2013
    It seems a prospective 2014 MDX buyer decided against it when the new MDX did not provide Lumbar support for the passenger seat. Seems strange when even my non luxury Touareg TDI has 10 way power seats with lumbar support for both driver and passenger. I assumed that was standard on all luxo barges. Not on a cheapo japanese luxo it would seem. Even CR is giving the 2014 MDX the old thumbs down treatment.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f269c17/43#MSG43
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    I am guessing the "de contenting" is "showing," or at least to the folks @ CR.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    Car companies always figure people won't notice such stuff. And even though some do, it didn't hurt Toyota when they really cheaped out the Sienna, nor VW when they did likewise with the Passat. Of course, VW lowered the price a good bit on the Passat.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited September 2013
    I test drove the 2007 MDX and was not at all impressed with the comfort of the seats. They felt like sitting on cardboard. The BMW was not much better as was the Escalade seats. Sales people all tried to tell me it was sportier feeling that way. Well that was one of the things I liked about the MB and the Toyota Sequoia Limited. At a $10k discounted price of $42k the Sequoia won vs $72k for the used MB GL320 CDI. The new MB ML, Jeep GC and Touareg all have very comfy seats. The Touareg's are slightly deeper which suits my long legs very well. That was a complaint of the short testers at C&D on their 5 diesel SUV comparison test. The lowly Touareg TDI still took top honors over the ML350 Bluetec, BMW X5, JGC & Cayenne. Which I agree with whole heartedly. I just wish the Jeep had made it for me to test drive. In three years when and if I am ready to trade, it will be on the list. If the Japanese get their heads out of the sand along with GM & Ford I will give them a go at my money.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-summit-ecodiese- - - l-4x4-vs-2013-volkswagen-touareg-tdi-2013-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec-4matic-201- - - 3-porsche-cayenne-diesel-2013-bmw-x5-xdrive35d-final-scoring-performance-data-an- - - d-complete-specs-page-7
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    Yes, I think you are entirely correct. In VW's case, "American made" Passat went from literal ZERO sales to 111,000 (not sure of exact figures) units. They of course set a target of being a competitor in the Camry, Accord, etc. segment. The kicker was the TDI Passat. Almost no oem in THAT segment has a counter to that option. So for VW 's Passat there was precious little down side. They also did this simultaneously with the Jetta. In the year the Jetta was de contented and so called price to compete it actually sold slightly more than the so called "German engineered" versions. This was despite the bru ha ha from the VW faithful. But then at the same time VW wanted and really needed to sell to the "wider customer base than the .... faithful. They also added the tubocharged hybrid Jetta.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    edited September 2013
    I guess that just means that us 'Mericans are just used to settling for less.

    Oh, saw Gagrice's "car" today in Minneapolis - white and everything. But it had a hybrid label on it. Had to do a double-take since I didn't remember that they even made one in that flavor.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    Well for sure ! Being assembled in MX avoids the so called "chicken tax". Golf's, as I recall still come from Wolfsburg (Germany). TMI is the argument for the faithful of whether or not Pueblo MX assembled VW's are even close to German market Jetta's.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited September 2013
    The Touareg Hybrid was not a mover at all. First VW test drive the salesman said his boss drove the T-Reg Hybrid they got stuck with until he could unload it. Now drives a Touareg TDI Executive. Manager at the dealer I bought from also drives a Touareg TDI Lux. Offered to let me take it for a day when I was still on the fence between it and the ML Bluetec. That is the nice thing about the Touareg. They are not everywhere you look like the silly looking Lexus RX Egg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    It would be interesting to see how much CHEAPER a Touareg would be IF NOT for the foreign car "chicken tax" !!!!! (in theory, 25% cheaper than some unknown starting point, as a departure for discussion)

    I took out the sticker. It is assembled in Slovakia. The engine is from Hungary. The transmission, as noted in prior posts is from Japan. US/CN parts are 1%, Slovakia 32%, Germany 25%. I do not think that 1% US/CN will qualify it for a NAFTA tax exemption.

    I am sure it is a safe bet the US (import) tax agency/s made more on these than VW does. Here are three titled taxes to kick this off, 1 luxury tax 2. CAFE tax 3.gas guzzlers tax.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited September 2013
    The 25% chicken tax put on in the 1960s was on small trucks. It is still there so all the small trucks are built here or like Ford they pull a quick one. The Transit Connect comes to the USA as a van with windows from Turkey. They take the windows out and put in metal panels and voila a small delivery van. Toyota would send over trucks with no bed and have them installed here. Now the Tacoma is more American than the GM PU trucks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    ..."sales to 111,000 (not sure of exact figures) units. "...

    Cars.com lists the 2012 US Passat figures @ 117,023 units. 2010/2011 MY's were more "SOFT " openings @ 12,497, 22,875 units respectively
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    I think you're both forgetting that there was no 2011 model Passat. For quite a while there, you simply could not buy a new Passat, there were none.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/volkswagen-passat-sales-figures.html

    I think you might want want to look at the reference. It could indeed be a mistake or misprint. Further, if you are saying NO Passat's were made in the Chattanooga TN plant in 2011, that would directly contradict what VW has said and done (in reality). They say the first (PASSAT) customer car was built in April 2011. (you can of course google this)

    Now whether they kept these for sale as 2011's sold in 2011's (other markets?), or sold in 2011's as 2012's is not in my pay grade or for that matter interest. They just didn't go LITERALLY from ZERO to 117,023 units in the NEW plant. Of course, I could have said they made 22,875 "practice" cars. But even I know that sounds ... TACKY.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    So, the Corvette is easier to get out of than a Boxer/Cayman/911?

    I see a lot of men over 60 (presumably) driving Corvette's. So many that GM should make an "exit mode" for the power drivers seat. Hear me out here. Upon opening the drivers door, the seat rises to full height, then swings left and tilts slightly down allowing the driver to stand w/o a painful, (and possibly embarrassing) struggle.

    While I am thinking about it, the hatch should automatically pop open and hand you your golf bags!
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    Why not? Ford had their Eddie Bauer editions.

    Vettes could have their Lazy Boy models. Us guys of a Corvette age could talk about our lifts, but we won't mean suspensions. And our wives can talk about their kind of lifts. :-)

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    Best Cars If You Hate To Buy Gas (Sorry, candidates are limited to vehicles with a maximum base price of up to $45,000).

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Two that started out with a bang and fizzled are the A3 TDI and the Lexus CT. August was down for the GLK250 Bluetec. Not many in the country to choose from. Looks like the 2014s are coming in. Be interesting to see how they sell. The GLK250 would be my choice out of that group hands down.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Only engine option is the V6 diesel with ZF 8 speed transmission. Will it be offered in the USA?
    Has to be a much better vehicle than that silly looking EVOQUE. With 240 HP and 440 ft lbs of torque, it sounds competitive with the German offerings. Is it possible they are using the BMW engine?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/land-rover/10283482/2014-L- and-Rover-Discovery-unveiled.html
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    if you are saying NO Passat's were made in the Chattanooga TN plant in 2011, that would directly contradict what VW has said and done (in reality).

    Come now, you know very well that I did not say that. What I said was (cut and paste, direct quote): there was no 2011 model Passat

    And I stand by those words. This site (edmunds.com) agrees with me. Please open a new tab in your browser and go to:

    edmunds.com/volksawagen/passat

    You will see 2014 2013 2012 2010 2009 and absolutely NO 2011. Furthermore, the page that you provided the url for shows that there were zero Passats sold in April, 1 in May, and 2 in June. That is a grand total of 3 Passats sold in the entire United States over a period of 3 months. I rest my case.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,770
    edited September 2013
    Did I read Edmunds.com indicated a skipped 2011 model year? Yes , before I wrote the post. Did I forget? No ! My (corrected) original point was the real world situation was a SOFT opening for the 2012 Passat (made in 2011, KEY point here, which you are glossing over), rather than a ZERO to 117k+ plus unit gig for 2012, less we get too far afield. This will not change whether goodcarbadcar made a mistake, lied, clarifies or refuses to change the data, because they say that are correct.

    Did I know what you said? Yes! You even know I know what you said, AND you know what I said. So unless you enjoy repeating yourself, it is not helpful to the obvious issue. Your issue is with Goodcarbadcar.com, not me. Email them to to clarify the data points. If I do it, you probably will not believe what I say/post. Case is still open, till you get a correction retraction or clarification. You would be doing a small part in internet "correctness". To rest your case skipping the other months (total of 22,835 unit SALES of 2011 Passat)? RIGHT. Till then, the VW Passat reads 22,835 in 2011 US sales, but you knew that, if you read it.

    Did I misquote you? NO !
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    Oh yeah. The Lexus CT is just a restyled Prius. A lady at my church drives one. It is really nice, inside and out, but she complains that it is loud, and has really poor acceleration and braking.

    When I told her that it was a Prius underneath, she got a scowl on her face. I think it was that moment when the truth finally hit her. She was the proud owner of a $41,000 Prius....or Plexus. How about Prixus? LOL.

    She paid $41,000 for a Lexus badge.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    Ouch. I bet you ask older Volvo or Jag owners how they like their Ford too. (I do that with a sister-in-law, LOL).

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Has all the faults of the Prius and little of the pluses. Very small inside. If you want a quiet ride going over 35 MPH don't buy a Prius or one built on its frame.

    For that she could have bought a loaded Passat TDI and got as good mileage, and a LOT more room. And had enough money left over for 10 years of diesel. Buying a luxo name plate, ain't what it used to be.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,220
    Sometimes it is just a silly comparison, though. I'm on my 2nd volvo from the Ford-owned era and there hasn't been a single Ford part on either.

    Some vehicles truly are twin sisters from the same parents but one was put up for adoption and wound up with a new name; some are like stepsisters and only share some components; some are completely unrelated but wound up at the same card table at thanksgiving dinner through a common aquaintance. :)

    The closest Jag or Volvo ever came to Ford is the stepsister analogy. They shared platforms and just about nothing else. Although you can find a Volvo engine in some Land Rovers, and I believe a Jag v8 engine was used in some Fords (such as the Lincoln LS). I'd say it was a pretty well-balanced partnership. It certainly isn't like a Saab-baged Chevy Trailblazer, for instance.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    Sure, but it still bugs a few people when you point out who ultimately owns their "brand".

    After all, a Jag is just a Tata. An Indian *gasp* brand.

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