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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,592
    Ford will have the diesel 5cyl for the US Transit next year. I'm sure they could adapt this for the F150 pretty quickly if they felt the need.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited September 2013
    So what mythical line in the sand did another oem's TDI PU truck sales cross, that led FORD to make this pronouncement?

    (unless you are Allen Mullahy under an assumed name? If so: PRAY TELL ! Pundits have Mullay one foot out the door to Seattle's Microsoft, or is that Microsoft's Seattle. Fintail ought to get a kick out of that one) :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2013
    Haven't heard that rumor but it has a bit of a note of truth to it. I assume Mullahy was in Seattle back in the Boeing days before they moved HQ to Chicago.

    Back to the diesel/hybrid thing, I suppose if you are running errands in town on the EV mode, you're still likely to hit a collector street and wind up going fast enough to kick the diesel in. Then you have it worse - even less run time on the diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited September 2013
    Indeed, almost every city's operative reality is to dense up EVERY circulatory Expressway/arterial/roadway/street/alley space. What happens is that IDLING /becomes/is the defacto majority of a passenger vehicles operation. This is turn brings the (predictable whole set of ) exact conditions they say they do not want.

    Not to pick on San Francisco, CA, one of the WORLD's favorite end destination, but more than one local media outlets has done graphic illustrations showing that walking to a destination is about PAR with (almost any) mass transit modality. So really no need for a gym membership for tread mill work, just walk to/from work/home.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Start/stop tech keeps improving.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited September 2013
    The driver there are decreasing fractions of a gal per hour burned: IDLING.

    Don't quote me here, but I remember a VAG.com estimate of .2 gal (25.6 oz) per hour for a stick shift (03 Jetta TDI) . What it is on a new TDI with DSG (no fuel draw or close to it) in gear, I do not know (less is the swag). So to put idling into context @ 50 miles per gal (128 oz) that is 2.56 oz per mile. So in theory, 1 hour of city idling is worth app 10 miles of point a to point b travel.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited September 2013
    We never really figured out what our diesels used per hour idling. We did install a device that kicks up the idle on a diesel engine to 1600 RPMs. That was considered the ideal speed to keep the engine warm in 40 below zero weather. We had these devices on all our Ford diesel trucks.

    image
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    In for a break from roof #2. Knees have about had it for this lifetime I think :(

    Start/stop tech keeps improving.

    True, but I hope the tech is involved enough to include special design coolant chamber and head heating/cooling abilities. (i.e. microprocessors and block and head track molds and lines that all work measuring load on engine, coolant flow {sped up or down to [help] ensure good heat from a short start-stop activity in the winter} vehicle movement etc etc all working together) And of course the requisite emission ramifications also..
    This extra attention in this way is the ONLY way they can sorta ensure somewhat a reasonable life for a diesel type hybrid. Personally, the economy and torque potential is certainly tempting, but is it the right thing to do for good life? That, I'm not convinced yet...but then I too do not know the levels the engineers are going to to ensure consistent and fast warm up temps. Maybe they could shut the whole thing down (the ability to disengage start/stop) if ambient temps drop to x? This is a compromise for the greenies but at least ensures decent diesel engine and assoc component life. Or rather...help to..
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nice rug. Chimayo? :D

    You're supposed to have switched from RUG, lol.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    lol
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Huh, I didn't even notice a toupee.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Got the pic from another blog about diesels. Is a nice rug though.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I pay attention to the important stuff. :)
  • I am more concerned about what is in the trucks....
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The enclosed semi trailers use a different entry point and are scrutinized pretty close. The old exhaust spewing stake beds are generally loaded down with produce and get very little attention. They haul up fruit and veggies and haul back old tires, appliances and scrapped out building materials. Worst is being in line close to one of them for an hour getting across the border into the US.
  • My neighbors Nissan pickup is a 1993, which he drives back aqnd forth to N/C from VA every month. Says all it burns is gas, the A/C still works, and has 266k.

    I like the new 2014 Silverado myself, but I owned a then new 2000 F-150 and had no problems with it for 34 k. I had to sell it due to my second daughters birth. However, any car can last that long. I would get the Silverado 4 door cab with the 5.3 in a heartbeat if I needed one.

    The previous model Silverado was a mess. It's chrome looked fake and excessive and I HATED the big ugly squares at the ends of the front bumper. Freakin' ghastly ugly.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    PU's FLYING off the lots!

    Other fish to fry? One example being: no joy yet, for the 8 speed A/T issue?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You have to wonder what sort of spin that was. GM is down 11% over last Sept. Still up for the year 7.6%. Some good news some bad.

    Audi is up 6.2% over last Sept.

    Audi TDI sales remained strong with the addition of three new clean diesel models this summer, including the Audi A6 TDI, Audi A7 TDI and Audi Q5 TDI.

    VW TDI doing well:

    In September the Passat TDI, the only clean diesel in the midsize sedan segment delivered 2,784 clean diesels, representing 35.2 percent of its sales mix. The Good Housekeeping Research Institute named the Passat TDI Clean Diesel the “Most Fuel Efficient Family-Friendly Sedan,” stating “For the driver aiming to be eco-conscious as well as budget-minded about fuel, this Volkswagen is a perfect fit.”

    Volkswagen’s high-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 24.4 percent of sales in September marking the best month ever for TDI sales and 24.3 percent year-to-date.


    Toyota is down 4.3% from last Sept.

    Nothing from the other diesel auto makers MB or BMW. With Lexus in a funk you wonder if the Diesels from Audi, BMW, MB and Porsche are taking their toll on Gas guzzlers.
  • roho1roho1 Member Posts: 318
    2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel may steal the show.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    For as much press given the Cruz diesel, it has both posted little press and no real numbers or percentages on ( Aug 13) YTD sales of 195,775. Is it a case like, .. TALL hat, no cattle ? thus far .

    ..."and 24.3 percent year-to-date."... (VW)

    VW (brand Aug 13 YTD) 314,833

    That would put TDI units @ app 76,505.

    That is up a little bit from 4% of total (225,000 units) VWA sales in 2003 of 9,000 units. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    I am not sure what possessed me to start to drive in the style (my perception of course) that Fintail describes (how he has to drive) in Seattle, WA. So far for half a tank, the computer shows 34.5 mpg. With a 26.4 gal tank and IF I continue at this clip, (like watching paint dry) that is 910.8 miles projected (this tank full) . :P

    12 VW Touareg TDI. EPA C 19 mpg /H 28 mpg.

    (81.6% over C EPA/ 23.2% OVER H EPA)

    No real "hyper mile techniques," other than to keep it 65 mph and UNDER. Now just about EVERYONE and their relatives are passing me, except for the truly special purpose vehicles (out of per 100, feels like 2). :(
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Point to what shows 2014 cyl deac as problematic? Looks like you made that up along with your mpg numbers.

    I read several (5) articles pegging the Chev 2WD ext cab V6 at 18/24 hwy for 2014. The 17/22 rating is 4WD or 2WD V8. My '98 4.3 is rated 20 hwy and has delivered 23.5 on long trips in yr 1 and in yr 16.

    Now that gas is down to $3.09 per gallon, I noticed they dropped diesel by 10 cents to $3.90 locally. 26.2% more than gas.

    JD Power has GMC as 2nd place behind Porsche in 2013 initial quality.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    ..."Point to what shows 2014 cyl deac as problematic? Looks like you made that up along with your mpg numbers. "...

    Your quote is a mischaracterization of what he actually said. EPA's for gassers can be way different in the real world. It can be plus, but more likely than not, MINUS.

    So for example, since you got 23.5 when rated for 20 (consistently on trips year 1 to 16) are you really saying the 2014 Chevy's will get 17.5% better?

    I do not know what a diesel (1/2 ton, as there are no diesels) Chevrolet truck 1500 series posts mpg, but I do know the VW T TDI gets, 31/33 and the VW T gasser 19. So given your prices, that is .1258 cents vs .163 cents per mile driven. So even with diesel fuel costing 26.2% more than gas per gal; RUG is 30% more per mile driven. The only anomaly here is that the VW T gasser uses PUG, but you didn't post its price.

    ..."JD Power has GMC as 2nd place behind Porsche in 2013 initial quality."...

    Now that makes me ask, (not to you specifically) why can't Corvette meet or exceed Porsche in that department? (they certainly have it beat in the price point metric) Needless to say, Corvettes are a GM product.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Point to what shows 2014 cyl deac as problematic? Looks like you made that up along with your mpg numbers.

    The numbers are from the EPA site. I do not need to make up stuff. If you are fortunate enough to live where gas is nearly a dollar per gallon cheaper than CA, good for you. That is not the case here where gas and diesel both like that $4 mark. The very credible CleanMPG does not share your thinking on the cylinder deactivation GM has tried to resurrect to get back in the game.

    GM’s PU Truck Cylinder Deactivation Leaves Much to be desired…

    Managers (not Engineers) developing the current Silverado sought the least expensive solution for improving the fuel economy while preserving its durability and lackluster performance.

    Jordan Lee, Global Chief Engineer for GM small block engines must have cringed when he was quoted by the PR group with the following:
    Quote:
    “Rather than adding turbochargers or multi-valve cylinder heads to increase the power of smaller engines, we chose to keep the proven capability of our larger V8 truck engines, and save fuel by switching off half of the cylinders when they aren’t needed.”
    A combination of simple hydraulic valves (read cheap) and software switch off the cylinders when the driver doesn’t need full power. When more power is needed, the system, called Active Fuel Management or AFM reengages the additional cylinders.

    http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=352787
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    I am starting to think given the more in depth details, I am glad I don't need or want a (late MY GM) PU truck. In a pass life, I have had a few (full sized 150's and one 250) Ford vans. While they got the commercial job done, I was never very impressed. It sounds like not much has changed.

    Now I did like the switchable 40 gal capacity. Geez if the VW T TDI had that, the range would be 1380 miles !!!!!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Slow day at the track. Slow as in bored. Well it's a bit slow too, but look at the rig.

    2013 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 2500: Track Tested

    image
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    My take on this: If you're really concerned about mpg, you probably shouldn't be driving a half-ton pickup.

    If you're in a situation where you have to drive a pickup truck, and you really are concerned about fuel mileage, you're in a bad situation.

    I drive a pickup because I like doing so, not because I have to, and I no longer drive enough miles that I need to be concerned about fuel mileage.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I ordered a 1974 Dodge extended van with 46 gallon tank. The dealer in Anchorage would not order it with AC. Said you don't need it in Alaska. I ordered from a dealer in Seattle. Saved enough for us to fly down and return most of the way on the inland Ferry system. Made a nice vacation. And that big gas tank came in handy on a couple trips out of Alaska through Canada. I am happy with the 26.4 gallons on the Touareg.

    I see one of the competitors the Lexus RX450h only has 17.2 gallon tank. It is also rated lower on the highway than the T-Reg TDI. No big deal, it was never on my list anyway.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited October 2013
    I drive a pickup because I like doing so, not because I have to, and I no longer drive enough miles that I need to be concerned about fuel mileage.

    I agree with you 100%. I like driving PU trucks as well. Our Lexus and Sequoia sat in the garage and I drove the Frontier most of our miles. I liked driving it better than the LS400 or the Sequoia. Now that has changed. I like driving the Touareg even more than the Nissan PU truck. And it gets much better mileage as well. 16 cents per mile vs 24 cents even with gas being 22 cents per gallon cheaper.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I liked this statement:

    seriously though, the 2013 Mercedes Sprinter's steering is more reactive and precise than I anticipated (I've driven much worse in trucks and minivans half its size), it holds a line remarkably well

    I will be interested in their take on the 2014 with a 4 cylinder diesel W/7 speed. May be the ideal replacement for my Nissan PU truck. I would want the smallest version though. My 22 foot long Mercedes RV was a bit big for most parking spaces.

    http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/new-sprinter-2014
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    They seemed to like the "old" engine better but it would be nice to test it. I could live with the speed and slalom numbers just fine, but like you say, it's a bit big. Be perfect for my guide friend though.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    by Jeff Bennett, WSJ, pg B1, Wed, Oct. 2, 2013.

    An interesting financial slanted (but car related ) article.

    Basically there are 4 four macro situations:

    1. CPR to a prolonged bad market situation in European and spotty world markets

    2. IMPROVE poor financial decision making that continues into post bankruptcy

    3. SLASH vehicle development costs to boost profits

    4. BOOST profit margins closer to Ford's

    Behind the scenes, there are so called 4 lieutenants (one a woman) all in the horse race to ascended to the CEO position. One each taking one of the 4 points.

    Now if they are not all (in one way or the other) high level bean counters, the article hints broadly at their abilities to wax their own areas, work together with the others in bean counting priorities and work as a part and parcel toward the greater good of GM. (code for higher profits) while they didn't say it, I would assume a huge shareholder with board member representation (labor unions and pensions) are fully onboard. They might just want to leave the lieutenants in place and go outside for a new CEO.

    Long story short, given TRUCKS are still the KEY to GM's fortunes (US), it is hard to see where a new diesel would have any place, given the issues presented.

    Now I know the "Game of Thrones" is a cable TV fantasy series. I just don't get the nexus to the article presented.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Well, I just learned that my friend who finally retired his 86 Jetta TD for a new (2011) JGW TDI, just dealt it in on a '13 2.5 Passat with a 6 sp Tiptronic. Is that the name for their non DSG auto? Doesn't look right for some reason.. Anyway..this sure is interesting although I knew he was not nearly as confident in the TDI as he was in his 86. He said there is just way too much tech going on to continue to make the TDI emissions friendly. The device that uses raw diesel fuel to burn off particulates in the PF, when too many trips that do not create enough natural heat in the system, add up. He said that it basically was doing "its thing" (the burning/cleaning cycle) every 100km! (62 miles) And that it had gone from 17, gradually increasing burn time, and the last time just the other day, it took 22 min. It is not advised to turn the car off during this cycle as all that will do is reset it, and it will have to start again, only adding additional time penalty. This waiting around for it to cycle started to own him, you might say. I sure can see how that would be annoying. And certainly reduce some of the fuel savings, due to idling etc.

    So to top it off, this particulate filter has a LIFESPAN...as in...it is a maintenance replaceable part of the exhaust system, due to the ash created from each burn cycle. The ash has nowhere to go, so it literally starts to build up and plug the system. Both fixes (an expensive dealer only servicing/cleaning) or re and re NEW filter...about $2000.00 !

    The bottom line is, he simply did not trust to own the car out of wty. So dealt it after 3 years and only 8800 km. It was as close to brand new condition as you can get inside and out, so pulled incredible resale. In fact, he drove a new car for 3 years, with only $4100. (tax in) out lay to get into a new gas Passat. I told him he won't do that well if he were to deal the Passat in another 3 years/8800 km. Of course he knows that.

    I think that we are at the point though that some significant running cost news is going to start to hurt resale on some of these TDIs for those owners who did not really fall into a very narrow demographic of the ideal small diesel engine owner. (the ones who do not drive an hour at a time each time they climb in...explained below..

    So...IMO, this is starting to really emphasize the importance of the type of use a prospective Golf/Jetta/Passat TDI owner intends to do. My friend said (and it is with quite a lot of detailed diesel engine and emission tech knowledge) that in his opinion and judging by what his car burn cycles were doing given his actual use of the car, is that anyone who does not really drive the car a full HOUR, each time they take it out, is probably going to be faced with a greater incidence of this expensive PF maintenance/ or replacement requirement. So to anyone who hasn't had a diesel before and have finally been convinced to give one a try, may regret that decision because of the ridiculous emission hoops that NA has made mfgrs like VW jump through in order to get certification for our countries. What this also tells me, is that maybe AdBlue is the most practical way to help these oil burners meet emission standards. It also makes me curious if Cruze diesel (which uses AdBlue unlike VW TDI 2.0s) and GLK250 etc have been designed to be a little more $dependable regarding addressing such maintenance requirements as this 2000$ regular expenditure on the TDI Golf's etc.

    What this all boils down to, IMO, is sure, diesels can be made clean enough to satisfy these handrubbing greenies (CARB etc) who deliberately saunter backwards in slowing/delaying/creating new and improved (ugh) hoops.. any certification process (just think Mazda SkyActive diesel delays here in NA) but bottom line, just because something 'can' be done, if you have to kiss the ar** of white shirts behind a desk and all the extra bucks that that whole fiasco creates does it really make sense in the end? What these ridiculous emission regs for diesel in NA means, is it just eliminates that many more potential purchasers because just too few owners would drive the diesel the way it needs to be driven in order to have the long term longevity and hassle-free motoring/dollar invested experience they think they are going to get. That said of course, owners who commute LONG commutes, or traveling sales who do 35 and 40k+ miles per year are ideal candidates to still go with the diesel. But in the grand scheme of things, they represent such a small number of purchasers that why should mfgrs continue to jump through newly and constantly more restrictive emission hoops and all the extra $ tech to make the cars meet the regs (which naturally gets passed onto the consumer both at time of purchase and ongoing after)?

    Diesel economy as we once knew it, will never be quite the same unfortunately, here in NA at least. It is such a shame too, cuz we just nicely have the ability to reverse old way negative diesel engine impressions created in the 70s and 80s, and instead now it will just be replaced with new negative impressions due to fuel saving costs being whittled down to basically par, due to the expensive demands of the new emission tech required in order to satisfy the collusive agendas within gvt and regulators.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    The only problem with "ridiculous emission regs for diesel" is that there's not enough of them on the whole transportation sector. The current crop of diesel school buses is a good case in point.

    Clean 'em all up I say.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I've found myself behind the odd full sized school bus here and I gotta say, according to the nose and visual test only, they seem to run extremely clean. And on that same sorta theme, even the majority of dump trucks in my area, both private and company owned, run so much cleaner than in years past, (as in only 15 let's say) that it is noticeable. The scenes in which gagrice and fintail describes about the smokey Mexican trucks coming up all the time, just isn't happening here. Yes, you will see the very odd smoker on the 401 sometimes, but our weigh scales do checks often and usually those trucks don't stay out there very long doing that before they are skimmed off the road until they are cleaned up. If it needs a rebuild to do that, then so be it.

    But I'm pretty sure we have dif categories of emissions allowed, and the ones for light duty cars like the VW TDI class (basic car class) are much stricter than for commercial vehicles weight classes. My friend with the new Passat although also retired from trucking, says that there is still a PILE of cleanup gizmos even on the heavy trucks, but because of their more longhaul use, seems to work behind the scenes more invi$ibly.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    I think the 11/13's really do not have enough miles (to me, more important) and time to really say.

    Indeed one of mine, 09 Jetta TDI was the first (new VW) to have one of the new/er emissions design you are speaking about. (made in NY state@ the time represented by SENATOR Hillary Clinton). Indeed it was married to the so called questionable??? 6 speed DSG. I was skeptical also and as I was also trying to weight the consequences of 52.3% more torque and at the stated price of MINUS - 22.5% fuel mileage (from 49 to 40, sidebar as it is turning out 50 mpg to more like 41/42 mpg ). The question was: WHY go back ward? Another was was higher torque worth the cost? Longer story short @ 65k miles, I swag it to be pretty problem free going forward (to 120k or first major tune up) We have had two rear brake lamps and one drivers side low beam go out. Other than that, I do not think these oem tires will last 120,000 miles, like in my 03 TDI did (113,000 actually) :)

    Now what he decided to do and at pretty advantageous cost figures are actually what presented itself to me at various times, for all three diesels and @ multiple times in ownership !! If it were not for a few other posters who had the same experiences, I would not really care to mention it as it appeared to me (in isolation) to be an outlier experience. BUT as others and your friend will attest, it seems NOT to be an outlier experience. So I would count his experience as an advantage of diesels. Now it would probably be natural to say hope he has a bad experience with the new gasser, but the truth is otherwise !! All the best to him !

    The emissions compliance is truly the indicator how anti diesel our systems have been and truly remain. The thing to remember is European diesel already meet a way more stringent emissions standard ALREADY. As you have said, US emissions standards extract more mpg losses than the already strict European standards (03 Jetta TDI 2/3 mpg, 09 Jetta TDI 3 mpg, 12 Touareg TDI 3 to 5 mpg (even with ad blue). It is truly meant as a penalty. So as you can see diesels mpg would be much higher than already high.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    they seem to run extremely clean.

    Good to hear. Now let's don't start going backward. (businessgreen.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    I really do not think that unless one operates a "truck," most passenger car drivers are literally CLUELESS as to how "BIG BRO" monitors truck traffic. In that sense EVERY "truck" goes through inspections almost all the time. So truly the ones that almost everybody complains about has been "blessed" by the authorities and multiple times. Even the "pollution FREE" Mexican trucks running who knows what kind of D2 (min of 500 ppm sulfur or LSD.) Might this NAFTA treaty be code for freedom to pollute? :(:)

    Now most folks know that older vehicles get "grandfathered ." Just the fact most to all run on ULSD, that is a HUGE HUGE HUGE improvement.

    Be that as it my (tea party folks don't seem to mention this) but a truck (in CA) can be pulled over merely to spot check items like smog compliance. There are specialty CHPs that handle this as a specialized task.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Ironically, I just bought one 2 weeks ago. The only one on the lot. Listed for $26,100. Got it for $24,300.

    So far, about 35 mpg in mixed driving. Nice little car.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    Pray tell ?? I am not sure what to make of ..." the only one" (my sic) on the lot".... Not that it is any of my business, but why are you so quiet about it? You seem to be the first one, on this board anyway! Any 411 on the percentage of Cruze TDI's sold, etc.?

    As you probably know mpg during break in is really a "work in progress". But yes out of the gate interesting.

    Off topic of your new diesel and diesels in general: just got a CA "STAR" station "smog certification" on a 13 year old 385 hp/385 # ft of torque vehicle. Essentially the pollution figures were literally ZERO: needless to say PASS. Not that anything less was expected. To bring the vehicle up to operating temperatures (for an hour) I entered the freeway @ 77% of redline (this thing SCREAMS @ 5,000+ rpm), hitting 75 mph in ah VERY short order. That of course was the good and bad news. If I was going any slower, I would have been in time to upset the mojo of a CHP and a large posse of civilians (15 ship) passing me in the numbers 1,2,3, lanes. :) Good thing I was in the SLOW lane, as a swarm overtook and passed me. I passed another CHP actively shooting a radar gun.

    My take on why they do not put diesels on the computer sniffer is because the numbers are probably BELOW ZERO, albeit immeasurable !
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    How can you dislike diesels if you get one that burns gas?

    “Literally, don’t try this at home!” he says. “It certainly is not a natural thought to run gasoline in a diesel engine, but when you control it properly, then not only can it be done, but you can achieve very impressive efficiency numbers, across the board. The emissions signature is significantly lower.”

    The lab pushing petrol car engines to new extremes (BBC)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    LOL! :) So what do you think the legislative and regulatory agencies like the EPA are going to say to real world (certified) engines that can do this ?

    Keep in mind there is no passenger (DIESEL) engine yet certified to run 100% BIODIESEL !!! ????

    So do you think we would get this diesel hybrid 261 mpg VW to our shores? Heaven forbid ! We got the 50 mpg Prius! :)

    http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130701-a-german-time-machine
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    So what was it?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Just saw a BMW print advertisement 5 series diesel. Optional is xDrive intelligent all-wheel drive.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think BMW is serious about catching MB. My local dealer has on their inventory seven of the new 535D models. They also show 19 X5 diesels and 15 of the new 4 cylinder 328Ds. Edmunds does not even show the 2014s being available. The 328D is highway rated at 45, not sure anyone beats that do they?

    I don't think any Mercedes dealer has that kind of inventory on diesels.

    http://www.bmwofelcajon.com/searchnew.aspx?model=X5&trim=xDrive35d
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2013
    It certainly sounds like they have gotten so ! When I went to test drive the 12 BMW X5 35 D, there were two (diesel) units between 2 BMW dealerships, aka in the silicon valley, ca. This was interesting in itself, as they are "imported", made in South Carolina, albeit for world wide sales. So Kudos to BMW for making that US plant part of the strategic vision (if one will). But then for a host of reasons, Germany and the EU promises to be depressed for @ least the foreseeable future (5 years). Sort of a side/Side bar, China likes stuff oemed in both Germany & the US. Part of the answer of course may have been the inventory matched the areas' "real world" interest. :(:) The best deal at the time "seemed" to be .... take it, or... leave it.

    MB @ the time wanted to line me up for a test drive, (no inventory between again 2 dealerships). For the 13 MY, they seemed very aggressive in selling the MB GLK 250 blue tec. In line with that, they seemed to have competitive discounts. However, no ZERO down & percentage.

    BMW's 45 mpg H EPA seems to be the current MPG leader. It is good to see BMW go from one of the leading gas guzzler lines, to a very competitive mpg market leader.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I'm not sure I understand what car you bought. Was it a Cruze diesel?? An employee here has a Cruze Eco and is getting that kind of mileage (also a fairly new car), so if that's all the diesel has to offer, that really sucks.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What I find interesting is Mercedes is still the Luxury leader in the USA with just under 25k units sold in September. WW Mercedes sold 142,000 vehicles in September. With China leading the pack. We truly are becoming a second rate market.

    I am thrilled to see BMW bring more diesel models to the US. Audi slipped several in but to me the high mileage 4 cylinders from MB and BMW are the most exciting. The 328D wagon is a good option as well. MB better get there small wagon on the lots to compete. The BMW does not have the torque of the MB 4 cylinder. It is claiming 280 ft lbs vs the MB at 369 ft lbs.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    China also has something like 4.5x the population of the US. Its socio-economic model is nothing the US needs to emulate.

    C250 4Matic wagon, please.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    If it was the diesel, then only 35 mpg combined seems odd to me too. Doesn't matter that it is a new engine being broken in, still should be doing better than that. Unless 'combined' involves Chicago-like freeway 'parking lots' where more time is spent idling and stopped than moving anywhere.
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