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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Thank goodness for the VW T, cuz that one was my first desire before learning of the GLK potential. It's just that the price of admission with that one sorta had me not feeling very excited about the possibilities. It is encouraging tho to have ruking's real life experience so positive with it. I still can't get the timing chain route and all those guides asking it to almost turn itself inside out, outta my head tho..
crickets..
Our Cars: 2013 Mercedes-Benz GL350 Diesel is Smooooth (Motor Trend)
Overall, the GL’s second- and third-row space was deemed adequate, but the power-folding third-row seats were cool.
Quite frankly the second row in the GL is not as roomy as the ML. Of course the ML is only 5 passengers. Something else I learned from a couple hours with our MB salesman. The R was a very slow seller new. Used you pay a big premium. Especially if it is the diesel model. I think it is uglier than sin. I'm putting the whole business to rest. Tomorrow is another day and I am going to try and find a Touareg TDI to test drive.
That's one thing about car shopping that lots of people forget. It's easy to walk since there's another car hauler dumping new cars off next week.
I am guessing the JGC TDI has its tank (Ad Blue) somewhere in the trunk. I would further guess it is a component and area shaped hugging design. But its filler location sharing the access with the fuel tank filler under the fuel tank access door is really very logical. Another reason why it is so logical is that Ad Blue (as the population becomes more "mainstream") is going to being dispensed at ULSD stations. Current prices are like 2.79 per gal Ad Blue. A more practical real world situation is if one has a "piddle" incident, one can dilute it pretty easy with H20 at the fuel station. Currently Ad Blue tank sizes seem to range between 5 gals to almost 8 gals.
Now for the MB BRAND it is literally a screaming deal. I cite MB spokesperson's saying they are losing monies (grains of salt here), anecdotal information saying invoice and mostly below invoice pricing, MB dealers saying they are DEALING ! Further buzz is created by the limited inventories. I do have a call back to one of the local dealers as they wanted me to arrange a look see AND test drive. The local unit has 10 miles on it.
Not to be a fanboy of Cars.com, but current inventory are listed @ 737 diesel units of the GLK250 (of 1406 total units= 52.4% diesels)
Another salesman from one of the 5 MB dealerships I sent emails out for quotes called me. They are pretty large and have 10 GLK250 BTs in stock as of yesterday. I told him I was looking for the best price. He asked how low did I expect them to go. I said below invoice. He said you mean like a $1000 under invoice. I said that was a good figure to start with. His comment was NO Problem. The salesman that I have worked with told me they will not lose a sale over money. Most of the dealerships are owned by large corporations. So it pays to not try and play one against the other from the same tent. My dealer is part of Group One. They own several dealerships in So CA.
Waiting to hear from local VW dealer on getting a test drive in the Touareg TDI.
That’s not the only complaint though. While the reduced weight of carrying around a spare might seem like an advantage, run flat tires also have an impact on your fuel economy. Thanks to the tires being heavier and thicker they can reduce fuel economy by 1-2%. Also, due to the stiffer and heavier design, the run flat doesn’t quite perform like its price would indicate. They can often be harsh on the road and don’t provide a lot of grip in low temperatures.
Lastly, when you do get a puncture, or lose tire pressure, it’s not quite as easy to get them repaired. While some run flat tires can be repaired, they need to spend some time off the rim, and need to be inspected to ensure they can be fixed. If they can’t, it’s time to buy new tires. Conversely, most punctures on a conventional tire can be fixed with a simple repair kit that costs just a few dollars.
Even with tougher rubber, run flat tires do wear out quicker than regular tires. Many owners on the AutoGuide Forum Network complained that they were replacing their OEM run-flat tires within 20,000 miles. This prompted a lawsuit, which was settled by BMW and Bridgestone. Members of the settlement will receive a full refund for the purchase of replacement tires if they were needed before 10,000 miles. If replacement occurred between 10,000 miles up through 30,000 miles, reimbursement will be 50 percent or less. If buyers are experiencing wear at around 20,000 miles, that’s less than half the life of an ordinary tire.
Customers though, haven’t responded well to these types of tires. Honda has stopped offering the tires on its vehicles after settling a class action lawsuit last year. The owners of Acura’s RL, and Honda Odysseys claimed unreasonable tire life and unexpectedly high replacement costs.
Run flat tires may have their advantages, but it still seems like their many compromises are stopping the equipment from taking off. BMW and MINI vehicles get them as standard equipment, and owners (especially enthusiasts) are not happy with them. Vanessa Terrier from Bridgestone’s Communications team mentioned that “As of today, the run flat tire market is mainly driven by car manufacturers and original equipment.”
Run Flat Tires not in my SUV buying plans
Either MB has inflated its MSRPs to silly levels, with invoice prices likewise and just kicks back money to dealers when sold - or they are losing money on every sale and making up for it with volume. I vote for the former. Margins have to be big on these cars, especially loaded models.
Now for me, the verdict is still out as to what kind of mileage and over all satisfaction with the 18 in size. As reported, I am getting between 14,000 and 15,000 miles per 1/32nd. The oem tires came with 10/32nd in and legally bald is 2/32nd in. So in theory if I take it down between 2/32nd in and 4/32n in .... 116k to 87 k miles.
I thought 16 in tires on the 96/94 TLC's were starting to get WEIRD (275/70/16 S rated) We just pulled down a set with 83,000 miles @ 8 years ( going on 3rd set) , for one tire started to run with a flat spot. It was hard for me to determine if it was a manufacturers defect or some bad hits in normal operations. Obvious (or may be not so) 3 others were good so we saved the best one ( for the under the rear) full sized spare. So in effect, I am doing what you are doing.
If this is of interest, these are Yokohama Geolander HT/S G051. I would have liked to have gotten the Michelin LTX's, still the gold standard after 2 decades, but we have had two to three good sets and a set is a minimum of $304 more. Great bang for the buck.
Still waiting on the VW dealers to call or email. By this time after sending an email to 5 Mercedes dealers, all had contacted me by phone and email. If VW is going to overtake GM by 2018 they better get off their fat behinds and follow up on leads.
Since 1974
Too bad NO 73.5 (US aka 128 oz) mpg ( 3.2 l/100km) blue motion for the US markets ! What are the US legislative and regulatory branches afraid of? That we might ACTUALLY USE less fuel ? :lemon:
Can I get one free if you get tax credits?
Not only commercial trucks but passenger cars which eliminates the truck space
And very expansive
You can also get the truck from fleet service which coast $15000 they send it to Canada to do the add on for Ford.
For the house we have natural gas so all I would need run pipe and have external unit put in
(They can buy credits from other companies, such as electric-only Tesla Motors (TSLA), that sell too few cars to be subject to regulation yet still earn credits which they are allowed to sell. Tesla made $85 million selling California and federal credits in the first quarter of 2013.)
Last I read PHILL went bankrupt. The home unit was about $4000. Not everyone has enough gas flow to their home to handle a CNG system. And the CNG tanks have a fixed life span and are expensive.
Most countries have adopted similar CNG cylinder standards. Tanks cannot be recertified after reaching the expiration date set at time of manufacture and must be taken out of service. That leaves vehicle owners two options: retire the vehicle or replace the cylinders.
Smaller-scale GTL plants can produce diesel at a cost of about $1.50 a gallon (the average retail price for diesel in 2012 was $3.92). “The U.S. gas production curve is not going down, it’s going up,” says Sasol CEO David Constable. “We see this product really taking off in the next decade after these plants have been built.”
"Petroleum experts who have sniffed vials of gin-clear GTL diesel speak of it with reverence.
“It’s a beautiful product,” says Jim Jensen, a Massachusetts-based energy economist. “The kerosene smells like perfume.” (nbcnews.com). Dateline 2005 - so where is it?
Looks like a lot of federal grant monies are being used to study GTL so I guess it'll wind up being just be a trophy fuel for the rich too. :P
It is truly a good time to buy diesel powered passenger vehicles !! It actually has been for a while.
I also have read in passing that VW is offering 5 or so time (12 mo 24 mo 36 mo 44 mo 66 mo) plans @ .9% financing (less than one percent). I also seem to recall a 72 mo plan but at a higher rate, that escapes me at the moment. So in theory, you could strike a WAY under invoice deal, get a low percentage rate ,9%, drive home with your signature. (money unfortunately would cost you app 37.50 per month) (i.e.. 50,000 * .9%= 450 per year/12)
The only diesel I have found that is not selling for invoice or below is the MB GL350 Bluetec. They are going above MSRP.
Run flat tires and NO spare are standard.
But as I was slugging my innards out today my mind drifts to the CRV replacement sometimes...and today got thinking about those dang 19" even if they aren't gonna be clad with RFTs on the GLK. And I was wondering if maybe larger rims (not wider tho) may actually run quieter than smaller ones, simply because they turn fewer revolutions every mile than smaller ones?? Any thoughts or experiences with this? The large rims seem to be on all the upscale cars, and basically all trims of luxury name brands, where quiet is always one of the desires.
Where do you hang clothes when you travel? Or do you put all in the suitcase? Edmunds shows 16 more cu ft of space in the ML vs the Touareg. The Touareg does seem smaller even though they are less than an inch shorter. I think the big question is which company can deliver what I want at the price I am willing to pay. The GLK is off the list for various reasons. It would be a fun economical vehicle for every day running around. But not in a league with the others on long trips.
I was told in passing most MB GLK250's came with the sunroof option and indeed it was harder to get them without that option, albeit app $1,400 more.
While I do have a sun roof in the 09 VW Jetta TDI (wife wanted it for some reason, even she does not use it much, the kids don't even use it) I have never been a fan. I am glad the Touareg does not have it. Especially for longer trips, the lack of a sunroof seems to leave me more relaxed .
..."Where do you hang clothes when you travel? Or do you put all in the suitcase? Edmunds shows 16 more cu ft of space in the ML vs the Touareg. The Touareg does seem smaller even though they are less than an inch shorter. I think the big question is which company can deliver what I want at the price I am willing to pay."...
I have always been in the habit of all in the suitcase.
The ML 350 Blue Tec is noticeably bigger than the Touareg TDI, the MB GLK 250 BlueTec is noticeably smaller than either of those.
That happens to be one of my parameters, so the selections quickly got down to the 1. VW T TDI (2. MB ML350 Blue Tec 3. BMW X5 35 D), albeit more than a year ago. The MB GLK 250 is priced to move but also can be decked out beyond "loaded", exciting and a further compromise still.
That is true. All of the listings I have in front of me have the Premium one package $3450 that includes a sunroof. Emunds show a Premium one package sans sunroof. I have not seen one listed. I had narrowed down my wants to the premium one and multimedia $2790 & trailer hitch. Total $47,094. Several are available close by so equipped.
No way to get a fair comparison between the GLK BT and Touareg TDI. The Touareg Sprt TDI with NAV offers several more things such as heated seats that would be $750 add on GLK. However the Sport does not have the Sunroof. It lists for $49,510.
Here would be my quandary. The only thing the T TDI Lux has to offer that I want is the Saddle Brown leather. They are 12 way adjustable with power lumbar vs 8 way adjustable in the Sport version. So the leather and pano sunroof add about $4k to the price of the Lux to $53,450. The one we drove was about $55k so they must have all the add on features available.
To get a comparably equipped ML350 BlueTec raises my out of pocket considerably. To match what the Touareg TDI Lux has the ML BT comes out at $59,485. The MB dealer I have been working with has an ML350 BlueTec I could like for $61k that would have all I would get with the VW T Lux.
The big question? Can the VW dealers come up with the colors and price I want before the MB dealer makes me an offer I cannot refuse? On looks alone I prefer the Touareg. To throw a further monkey wrench in I also like the looks of the Jeep GC. However the dealer emailed me yesterday and said the GC diesel was pushed out to August from June. That does not bode well for Chrysler.
I see Dirito Bros VW of Walnut Creek, has a Lux White with Saddle brown leather.
There seems to be a lot of affiliation between dealerships. Have to wait for my local salesman to tell me what he has found. I am not in a hurry so I could just order and get what I want.
So if one (has to have) wants the sunroof option, the VW T TDI Sport defacto gets drop kicked from consideration.
The deletion of the sunroof option is an outlier request. However, I got a line on two MB GLK 250 sans sunroof, one "inbound" and uncommitted: but one had to come from either Las Vegas, NV, AZ, or NM inventory. (there were more but the other options dropped kicked them out)
Natch the LA LA area had the most inventory and the ones most loaded . The cheapest were the "inbound" but so called uncommitted cars. One can also special order. In trying to keep it from exploding, I have lines on 6 vehicles. So as the great audience can see, this is getting more convoluted as it goes on
I would almost totally agree. I have a hard time conceptualizing the two because they are SO different. I only reasonably can compare them now only because I have the Touareg (could be the ML 350 Blue Tec). So naturally the bang for the buck equation and total cost enters into it. A lot of folks will only shop "loaded". In some ways that makes things less complicated as it seemingly makes things more complicated. I think what happens there is the status gig or how many more gadgets on one vs the other keeps the ADD addiction alive.
The 2.1 L twin turbo definitely has the potential to be exciting !! I really was not able nor willing to explore those angles on such a new car (it had 15 miles on the clock when we started) So for example to properly break in: tires, brake pads/ rotors suspension components, (diesel engine and drive train) etc. I would not want to exceed 55 to 65 mph for app 1000 miles.
Did you see the mocha colored leather in the GLK? I thought that was an ugly color. It was not so bad as a trim color with the Almond Beige. I also was not that impressed with the Diamond white on the Mercedes. I did not think it was worth $1515 over the polar white.
I think I am over my love affair with the GLK250 Bluetec. It would have been a decent daily runabout for sure. The idea of getting rid of the Sequoia and heading out onto long road trips with that little GLK did not keep me excited.
What are your thoughts on the funny spare in the Touareg?
I would just as soon NOT have the Sun roof. My only reason for thinking of the Lux is the Saddle Brown leather. I would be happy with the Sport with NAV and the cornsilk leatherette. In fact the Mercedes sales people had me convinced the new synthetics are better than leather. I just like to jab PETA every chance I get. :P
I would like to drive the Sports model to see how the seats and ride compare. I think the 18" wheels and tires would be better riding.