Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

jhs70 · June 2011

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. The 09 equinox is nothing like the newer versions, whereas the newer pilots simply got an updated look. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere about the both of them. but not positive. I guess at the core of this is that I suspect American cars are of much higher overall quality, but I know that Japanese cars are (I've got four of them and they are all absolutely trouble free). All you have to do is ask around. However that paradigm may be shifting.

fezo · June 2011

One vote for the Pilot here.

tallman1 · June 2011

A Honda vs. a GM? For less when comparably equipped?

I vote for the Pilot.

fushigi · June 2011

Honda must be pushing some amazing deals on the Pilot.

EX-L 4WD w/Navi MSRP is $38,680 inc. dest.
Equinoz LTZ AWD 3.0L w/Navi MSRP is $35,675 inc. dest.

jhs70 · June 2011

I have no idea why i'm getting the crazy honda prices that i am, but i'm getting them from several sources. Yet some Honda dealers will not even talk to me because they say they're inventory is so limited they are only dealing with their tried and true customers (Browns Honda City in Glen Burnie, MD). It seems the chevy folks, after YEARS of being abused, now find themselves with a decent product and are in NO MOOD to negotiate. What goes around has seemingly come around for them. At lease where I live.

fushigi · June 2011

Well, I'll say that though the Equinox was on my short-list in late '09 when I bought, given the deals you're seeing I'd say go with the Pilot.

I don't track their sales but I'm wondering if the CR-V and Crosstour are eating into Pilot sales, making the dealers more tempted to bargain.

jgsaves · July 2011

I have a 2008 Hyundai Sonata with 91k on it. I bought it from a Toyota dealership and got the Platinum Continuous Customer Care Agreement which expires after 100,000 miles or after 4/17/2013. It is transferable.

My question is this- if I know that we will be trading this car in within the next 2 years, is it of more value to a dealership while it is still under warranty? Should I be able to get a higher trade-in value if I do it before the warranty expires? ...or does it not matter at all?

Thanks for the help!

im_brentwood · August 2011

A warranty like yours can't be transferred to a dealer, only on a private sale.

hellotx33 · August 2011

Do new car sales matter much to a car dealer? I heard they barely make any money on new cars. Service and used cars are far more profitable than new car sales. Why do car dealers still have new cars on the lot and dont just go completely online?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

I think it's easier to pack the deal in person than online.

im_brentwood · August 2011

New cars, In my opinion, are a necessary evil.

Generally most mass market brands don't make much *_NET_* profit to the dealer after expenses.

However... New car sales get you trade-ins, and generate customers for parts and service. We make money on those.

hellotx33 · August 2011

hmm.

So dealers are attached to new car sales for trade in. Basically, dealers want to sell used cars because used cars are not as much of a commodity as new cars.

you know what could work for a dealers, some sort of peer to peer car buying. Dealers get trade ins. Customers avoid sales men. Dealers can focus on where they make the most money service and used cars.

im_brentwood · August 2011

We want to sell used cars because we make money on them, as a general rough rule (The guys I know at Mercedes and Lexus tend to make money on new cars).

You're also forgetting that the whole "Buy cars exclusively online" thing works for a slim minority of the general public.

A lot of sales practices that some dealers use, and the ones that some buyers on here dislike, are done for a simple reason. They work.

fushigi · August 2011

I don't know that used cars are more or less of a commodity than new cars. But nowadays detailed pricing info is readily available on new cars making it easier for consumers to negotiate in their favor, i.e. less profit for the dealer.

Things like holdback & passing on advertising fees probably wouldn't be necessary if the price info that consumers had was more like it was for other commodities like electronics & appliances. For those, people have no real idea what the seller's cost is. We assume BestBuy, Sears, etc. has some percentage margin but we don't know for sure. Thus, as a buyer our ability to successfully negotiate a price is more limited.

With used cars the situation is different from both new car pricing and other commodity pricing. While basic info is readily available it's understood by most consumers that the prices reflect geography & the vehicle's condition and as such can significantly vary. This variance can allow dealers to build in a larger potential margin.

Frankly, while price negotiations are fine online, I would never buy a car (new or used) sight unseen and, more important, without a test drive. My personal preference is to research online to trim the vehicles under consideration down to three finalists then do the test drive bit.

bigernhrdtfn3 · August 2011

i need to know where i might find a good used 3.0ltr.engine for a 2001 ford escape can any one help .

Kirstie_H · August 2011

There are quite a few on www.car-part.com. It's a database of salvage yards and other used part sellers. If you don't feel comfortable dealing with someone out of your local area, use the database to find a salvage yard near you and maybe they'll assist with the transaction (for a fee).

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

Good resource. Be sure to buy an engine that's been tested (it should be bagged up, out of the car, have oil pressure readings on a tag, and should carry a warranty in writing). Remember, if someone installs a used engine for you, and that engine is messed up, you'll have to pay again to remove it and install another one.

robbieg · August 2011

I would agree. A better indicator may be to look at the resale value of a Ford Edge. I have been pricing used cars and I am surprised at the price of the Edge. I think GM and Ford are pretty close on resale.

Honda does have unbelievable deals on the Pilot. Basically, making it hard to jusitfy a used car. AWD Pilot LX for 26,500 or so.

iontrap · August 2011

Where I work there is a program setup with a local Ford dealer offering us fleet/commercial pricing along with any incentives and rebates. I havn't been able to find out what fleet pricing is. Is it a fixed % below invoice?

shadowchaser · September 2011

I have ordered a luxury car that will be coming in in 3 months. My price negotiation with the dealer was fine. I thought the manager I dealt with was very fair and quite nice. Now that we are ready to order, he has asked me to fill out a credit application even though I am not getting credit through them. They want to be sure I am actually qualified to pay when it finally comes in....which I understand. (I actually have great credit). I agreed. However, in addition to the credit application, they are insisting that I sign a privacy notice. One of the provisions of that is the following statement:

"Please be aware that it is our policy to disclose the above nonpublic personal information to only those companies that perform marketing services or other functions on our behalf or to other financial institutions with which we have joint marketing agreements."

To me, this isn't about protecting my privacy but rather, a way for them to get permission to share my most personal information (mortgage, income, etc) with their marketing partners). I see this as no benefit so I declined. They insist that I am the only person to have ever had a problem with this and insist they can't sell me a car without it. I told them I am happy to give them my ss number for a credit check or show them a pay stub. They are still insisting. Advice (yes.. I could find another dealer but starting again would be inconvenient...but definitely possible)

qbrozen · September 2011

I can't see them NOT selling you a car because of it. I would hold my ground.

But I would insist they make a decision NOW. Tell them you don't wish to sign and if they want to lose your business over it, they have to let you know immediately so you can take your money elsewhere.

If you really are concerned about it, go ahead and call another dealer and ask them if they would insist you sign a privacy statement to purchase a car from them.

28firefighter · September 2011

Some of the credit agreements I signed had statements to that effect. I simply crossed it out. I initialed it as did the finance guy and dealer manager, and haven't had an issue.

fushigi · September 2011

In other words, it isn't required.

kyfdx · September 2011

.. you don't sign it... and, they still sell your name to their marketing partners.

What then?

28firefighter · September 2011

Same thing that happens if there is no agreement and they sold your information to marketers. You go after them.

kyfdx · September 2011

You guys must have cheaper attorneys than we do...

Anyway, just got a car.... and, I was looking back over the paperwork, because I knew there was a privacy notice in there.. When I get a chance, I'll post some interesting information from it.

It lists what they can do and what they can share, and.... what you can opt out of.. It's not asking if you want to.. it's notifying you what you can and can't do.. by law... Very interesting..

And..what you sign? It's just stating that you got the notice, not asking your permission..

28firefighter · September 2011

In PA it was a separate document from everything else in the F&I office. I just looked back at the credit agreement and there was nothing about selling anything to marketers in it. There was not an opt out but it was also not notifying me of anything statutory, so I just crossed the entire page out.

fezo · September 2011

Wow. You actually buy cars and tehy still let you host here?

steve and sneakers would have fits.... (no, not Honda Fits....)

kyfdx · September 2011

I know... but, then again... I'm not much of a Host.

(actually, I'm not the host of this discussion...

)

im_brentwood · September 2011

Those marketing companies are those who do marketing for the dealership, IE, sending out mailers, service coupons, etc.

We have third parties who do this, there's no way I have time to lick 5,000 envelopes next time we do a mailer.

henry_n · September 2011

I am looking to purchase a new pickup, Chevy or Ford. Based on past experiences, the left over models should get the maximum incentives next month, in October. Anyone have any fore-knowledge, or recommendations on when the best deals / incentives may be available?

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

Well this waiting game is kind of a two edged sword---the longer you wait for incentives, the fewer choices you will have on existing inventory. You may end up by waiting it out in getting a 'better deal", butalso having to compromise a lot on color, options etc. So it's possible you'll get a good deal on a truck you don't want. :P

henry_n · September 2011

True, but .... Last year there were so many cars left over, it didn't really matter, the choices were still there. This year, probably not as much. It looks as though the effects of the tsunami are still being felt, consequently the deals probably won't be as good, and the pickings will be slimmer.

im_brentwood · September 2011

Also a consideration should be resale value... if you trade within, say, 5 years a 2012 may be worth as much more as the incentives, if any, on the 2011.

Plus you'll have better selection.

henry_n · September 2011

Right now, there are $4,505 in incentives on a 2011 Silverado. None, zip, nada, zilch on a 2012. I really, really doubt there will be $4,505 difference in resale value 5 years from now.

And I expect the incentives to be better next month, when they consider the 2011 to be a left over model.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

Depends on what you buy. On a "base" model pickup, the difference in resale value will be about $3000, but on a heavily optioned or a more deluxe style line, it could very well be a $4500 difference.

IMO, there's a certain amount of smoke and mirrors in "incentives' and "cash back' and 'low or no interest" or "deferred payments" etc. The consumer has to weigh THIS against THAT, or one could end up outsmarting oneself. This goes double if you're working a trade into the deal, and triple if you are steered into a model that you are only buying because of incentives, not your first choice.

henry_n · September 2011

You, sir, are not correct. I just ran the numbers, using Edmunds.com.

2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 crew cab, LT1 trim, 5.3 V8, 60,000 miles, private party resale value is $17,188

2008, everything else the same, including the 60,000 miles, private party resale value is $17,557.

The difference is $369. Far, far, far less than $4,505. I think I will buy the 2011 with the $4,505 in incentives, and sell it in 4 years for $369 less.

im_brentwood · September 2011

Reality is closer to $2,000.

That being said, I don't see there being a $4,500 difference. On some cars there certainly is, but in this case, go for the 2011.

For what it's worth, Edmunds TMV is not always all that accurate on used car values.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2011

I used older trucks than you did, since +5 years from 2008 would be 2013 and we aren't there yet---so I used 2005 and 2006 models.

I think $2000 difference is about right on depreciation. $369 makes no sense whatsoever to me and certainly not to anyone who goes to dealer auctions.

But the debate is so hypothetical anyway, since condition and geography will play a part in depreciation in "real life".

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't spring for the 2011 right now if the incentives are as stated.

str01 · September 2011

Can't seem to get a straight answer on this one from the dealership(s). I checked the carfax on a new car that had been transferred a lot.

At one point on the carfax there is a line that says "Vehicle sold." No registration follows, all that shows after that line is that the car is for sale with the next dealer and some vague service notes. Car has not been RDR'd.

Why would a dealership report to carfax that the car was sold? I have seen many, many carfax reports and that's not normal for a new car transfer.

jwilliams2 · September 2011

When a dealer swaps a car, it is sold to the other dealer. A check is actually cut. The car is not registered until it is retailed. Hope this helps.

str01 · September 2011

Right, understood, but it's not supposed to be reported that way after a new dealer to new dealer transaction. "Vehicle sold" is generally a retail event. That's what's odd.

kyfdx · September 2011

Other possibilities:

Punched the car as "sold" to get an expiring incentive from the manufacturer. (this usually starts the warranty clock).

Put the car in a demo or service loaner program. Sometimes this is done strictly to get an incentive, as well. Same as above on warranty.

im_brentwood · September 2011

It's carfax... who knows.

Perhaps a duplicate MSO was issued, perhaps they pulled the info from the dealer's computer system, god only knows.

Carfax: A company that basically blackmails dealers into paying thousands per month for their services.

Autocheck: They actually catch stuff that carfax misses. This is what auctions use.

Carfax is kinda like KBB, consumers all know it, no professionals use it. Autocheck is like Galves or Black Book, the average consumer isn't familiar with either, but it's what we use in the business.

str01 · September 2011

I said in the first post that it's not punched but I thought that too before finding out otherwise.

str01 · September 2011

I don't like Carfax so much either but like it or not it now affects used car values more than it should.

Whatever the reason for reporting it sold at some point, would that make whoever buys this new car the second owner on the report or does Carfax only go by DMV registration when it comes to ownership?

im_brentwood · September 2011

Honestly? Who knows.

Carfax is merely a somewhat accurate third party... What determines if it's a brand new car is that it's never been titled and the car hasn't been RDR'd.

ken117 · September 2011

You must be a dealer. In my experience, Black Book almost always devalues the trade-in value of a vehicle. Since 2008, I have traded four vehicles and had no difficulty equalling or exceeding Edmunds' trade-in value each time. In fact, I have found Edmunds values vehicles a bit on the conservative side. I do understand a trade-in is only part of an overall deal. I always negotiate the price first and then the trade separately, so as not to confuse these two aspects of the deal. I do admit, I sometimes have to visit several dealers but I always have no trouble locating one who will provide a fair trade value.

My last trade was valued by Edmunds at $14,500 (clean). The first dealer I visited held firm, using his Black Book argument, at $12,500. I went across town to a different dealer who easily allowed $14,800 for the trade. Interestingly, the first dealer later called and offered $14,500. I bought from the second dealer due to its initial honesty about the trade.

ken117 · September 2011

Thanks, a great observation that a trade is worth what someone is willing to pay at a given time. That is why a consumer must determine the fair value of the trade by using Edmunds, NADA, and Kelly. The consumer must then be willing to visit as many dealers as necessary to obtain a trade value which is comfortable for them. Consumers should never, ever accept a low ball trade on face value.

kapm · September 2011

Looking at 2012 Tucson LTD 4X4, and have been told most of them come with floor mats, cargo nets and cargo trays. I want to order Weather tech. mats. Was told that if I want the vehicle without the options I'll have to special order it and will be moved to the " end of the line " I want a particular color combination and feel this may also make it a special order. If I go with the order it has been pointed out that I will end up paying for any prices increases and could lose the $500.00 military rebate. Is this a dealers ploy or a real fact? Sounds as if they are pressuring me to buy right away. Has anyone else run into this problem with Hyundai?
Looking on my discharge papers I see that my term of enlistment is 3 years 360 days, will this present any problems with the military discount? ( Said discount calls for 4 years )
If I special order why can't I get the "today" price? How much of a price increase should I expect?

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