Toyota 4Runner

iceman50 · November 2002

Does Toyota typically use a particular tire on a model or is it just random? I went to one dealer and all of the Limiteds had Michelin Cross Terrain tires while the SR5s and Sports had Dunlops or Bridgestones. Then I went to another dealer and none of the Limiteds had Michelins. Is this normal?

toyotaken · November 2002

From what I've seen, the brand-name of the tire is pretty random. They all have the same warranty and average tread life, just different types of tread pattern. I know that I personally have a preference for some brands of tires over others, but for no reason other than just personal preference.

rsholland · November 2002

Is the hood scoop on the new 4Runner Sport functional, or just decorative?

Bob

toyotaken · November 2002

The hood scoop on the 4Runner is just for appearance. If you open the hood, you'll see that it is sealed and the intake is in the front of the engine.

cliffy1 · November 2002

Between my vacation last week and this week's training seminar, I got behind.

Let me address a few issues from the last few days.

1. As to the SUV vs car discussion, there is one thing missing. The SUV isn't just for towing and off roading. The SUV fills a similar niche to a sports car in that it makes a statement about the owner. It says "I'm rugged and independent and like the best things in life." It can also indicate that your tastes are flashy or fun. If you are going to be making trips to Tahoe, so much the better.

2. Tires are random. They always have been with Toyota but this year, there is the change of getting Michelins.

3. The hitch thing is really odd. A 2" receiver should handle any 2" ball mount. I wonder which one was defective.

4. Mtclimber: For the time being, it will be difficult to find one without the bells and whistles. We're taking whatever Toyota will send us and we have not seen a 4WD without a moonroof for a couple of years now.

5. Toyotaken is correct about the hood scoop.

olrocker · November 2002

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0211_Toyota_4Runner_/

(Comparisons to the Rendezvous notwithstanding...that ugly Buick makes the 4Runner look like an XK8, IMO.)

leodogs · November 2002

Cliffy and Toyotaken, please correct me if I'm mistaken...I've been told by more than one dealer that the tire selection is related to the factory the vehicle was assembled in. I've seen '03 Limiteds on various dealer's lots in New England - some had Bridgestones while others ran with Michelins. I've always had more longevity and a better street ride with Michelins, but others may disagree.

vicarouza · November 2002

It boggles my mind why Toyota advertises all of these friggin options and then does not make them available......what are these people trying to achieve. I'm here in Southern California with COUNTLESS Toyota dealers and none of them have a 4-WHEEL DRIVE Limited (why does this company even bother making this vehicle in 2WD......isn't it supposed to be a friggin "REAL SUV" or whatever they call it....yeah, right).....Anyways, basically what I'm looking for is a LIMITED 4X4 with the JBL/NAVIGATION SYSTEM, SIDE-CURTAIN AIRBAGS, AIR SUSPENSION and POWER MOONROOF .......what's so difficult with this??....Can someone give me some suggestions why I cannot find a vehicle so equipped, and whether they'll ever have 4WDs here in Southern California?? THANKS, just had to vent!

pschreck · November 2002

The vehicle you're looking for is available. I've seen them here in PA. I haven't seen any 2WD. They wouldn't sell too many of them here, and this part of PA doesn't get that much snow. My guess is people in CA don't BUY 4WD but want to LOOK like they DRIVE a 4WD. In other words, don't blame the dealers for what sells in CA. Blame it on the Hollywood types.

Try Northern CA or further north.

Hope that didn't sound too harsh.

stislander · November 2002

I'll try to make it short... We had an accident in my 2002 SR5 - rear ended by full size Ford van. Extensive damage to the back of the truck.
On the impact the back of both driver and passenger seats reclined to about 30 degrees from the positions we would normally use. Now I can't affix the back of the seat in the most upright position. Looks like the first available upright position is now further back than even I used to drive (not to menssion my wife). The body shop did a decent job on restoring the rest of the truck, but they can't figure out this seats problem, claiming that nothing is broken in the seat mechanism. Otherwise, the seats look solid and stable.
I'll really appreciate any ideas or/and info.
Thanks.

dawgpak · November 2002

Same thing here on the Central Coast, all 2wd Limiteds. One dealer here did tell me they could get a vehicle from Northern CA (north of the bay area). The 2wd Limiteds I've seen at my 2 local dealers sold very quickly. If you select "Build Your Own" at toyota.com and enter your So. CA. zipcode, you'll see that the Limited 4x4 isn't even available as an option. Big bummer.

pschreck is right though, the majority of suv's here in CA never leave the "paved" road and have no reason for a 4x4. Even the mountain roads are very well plowed here. Toyota is simply targeting their vehicles to this locale accordingly. How many 4x4 Ford Expeditions do you see?

Although I realize many here buy suv's for image, I really think most do so for the elevated driving position, ease of getting in and out without bending over, and practicality. The fact that suvs are traditionally truck-based is irrevelevent to most and unappreciated, which is why the car-based versions are growing so much in popularity here. These vehicles really have no business being labeled as SUVs any longer. They're SEVs (Sporty Elevated Vans) - which is fine.

But like you, I want a 4x4 (or at least an AWD) and am frustrated I can't get one here. I had an '86 Trooper and '92 Montero (before everyone had suv's, but in '99 went to a van and a truck just to reject the herd mentality here. Now I'm ready to trade those 2 vehicles in for a single suv because that's what I really want. I'll still avoid the herd do some degree since my suv will sometimes have mud on it.

tfuzz · November 2002

I understand your frustration. I was looking for the same vehicle as you, but without the NAV system and with DRL, in the middle of the country. I looked in KS, MO, CO, and OK. It was very difficult to find one. Few of the dealers listed the details of their new Runners on their website so you couldn't tell what equipment each truck had, or its color, without contacting the dealership. Some at least had the price listed, which helped, but not all did. The air suspension was the thing hard to find around here. I kept at it, though, and eventually found one just like I wanted, but with my second color choice.

It was also interesting that some dealers near the one I eventually purchased from checked their computers and said there were no Limiteds like I wanted anywhere in the region. They claimed to be able to find a specific vehicle at another dealership. Apparently that system doesn't work, or maybe dealers with a difficult to find model keep it hidden from the other dealers.

I understand that my requirements were somewhat limiting and not mainstream, and I was looking for a brand new model, so I expected some difficulty. However, I wish Toyota had a system to search inventory nationwide that listed equipment on each vehicle available and at which dealership(s) it could be found. I did run across such a system on a dealer's website back east somewhere, but only for the Southeast. I even considered driving back there, but they were loading their Limiteds with expensive add-ons like 18" wheels.

By the way, I had pretty much the same experience when I bought both my Highlander and Sienna a few years ago. When a dealer 5 hours away called me to advise he had five Siennas come in equipped about like I wanted, I took off from work, grabbed my wife, and outran the highway patrol to get over there. Two were already gone by the time we got there. We started the paperwork on the one my wife wanted only to have it sell minutes before we signed, and we bought the 4th one, which didn't have the moonroof or electric door we wanted. I was about ready to duke it out with the guy that bought the one we wanted. It was obvious they saw us looking at the same car they were and quickly bought it before we could. I think I could have taken him, but his wife and kids looked pretty mean, so I let them keep it! ;-)

cliffy1 · November 2002

There is only one factory that these things are built in and tire selection is random.

Every region orders the vehicles to meet precieved demand for that region's customers. Note the use of the word "precieved." The regional folks DO screw up from time to time. I used to live in SoCal and I know 4WD makes a difference. There are incredible off road opportunities and there are plenty of mountains with more snow that we will ever see on the East coast.

Now, what can you do about this? Buy out of region. It is a hassle and will cost you either towing fees across the country or a flight and several days off to drive it home. Beyond that, it isn't too difficult. You'll have to e-mail several dealerships. Don't look for the one with the lowest price. Look for the one that seems to be the most straight forward with the responses. Remember, you have to trust the salesman enough to take time off work and fly across the country on a one-way ticket.

The only other problem you may have is equipment issues. Here in the Central Atlantic Region, we do get a good number of 4WD Limiteds but VERY few with navigation and side air curtains. On the plus side, every one with nav also comes with the side bags and air suspension. You may have to be flexible with colors or equipment.

nippononly · November 2002

here in the Bay Area, all the limiteds I have seen were 4WD, and half of them have had the NAV too...I remember noticing one with the special suspension, but I wasn't really looking for that.

I would say if you are in L.A. just come up to San Francisco for the weekend, there will be plenty for you to choose from, and you can stop in Solvang and buy some fudge on the way home in your new truck! :-)

vicarouza · November 2002

I'll look into that Nothern California (Bay area) option......and yes it would be a nice drive back in my new truck, and I'll probably stop in Solvang for the fudge ;-) ........Hopefully, they have a truck exactly the way I'm looking for (basically a Limited 4WD model with everything but the proverbial kitchen sink)......luckily, I'm more of a practical kinda guy....flexible on things like color, but definitely not flexible on the equipment/options. (NAVIGATION SYSTEM being the MOST IMPORTANT of the options)

mackabee · November 2002

we do have the capability to look in the computer and find any vehicle you want as long as it is being made. A common practice among dealers (Toyota and others) is to "punch" or report a car as "sold" while the vehicle is still sitting on the lot. Hence, when someone looks for that particular vehicle or something similar it will not show up on that dealers' inventory.
; )
Mackabee

mb0526 · November 2002

Hello,

I just purchased a new 2003 Sport Edition 4Runner 4X4. I had a '97 4Runner for 4 years before I bought my wife a Mini-van. I had a couple of questions and observations....

1. There is a strong exhaust smell with the back window down. Even when it is not down and I have the regular windows open I noticed the smell but not as bad. Worst part is that it smells like "Rotten Eggs". I thought that was an indication that the catalytic converters were bad??? Since it is brand new I do not understand what is wrong. Also I am extremely concerned that I can not operate the vehicle with the windows down.

2. Does anyone have Michelins on their 4Runner? Mine came with Dunlops AT20's and just wondered if the Michelins might soften the ride, somewhat?

3. Anyone have any issues with upper back aches when driving the Sport 4Runner with cloth seats? There does not seem to be much support, at all, toward the top of the seats. When I compare the upper portion of the 4Runners seats to the Mini-van or a Maxima there is a drastic difference. I have never had any back issues with any vehicle I have ever purchased, including the '97 4Runner, which is why I am a little concerned.

Other than those 3 issues the 4Runner is awesome!! That finally got the power right....Even my wife made the comment that it seemed classier than my '97 4Runner. Anyway, please let me know what ya think.

Thank you,
Michael

ainslb · November 2002

Cliffy and all, thank you for your input. I probably did not convey my thoughts clearly. I was referring to a new car warranty for a used car since the mileage was not greater than 36,000. I guess the Toyota dealer's daughter went to a church very far from home, maybe even twice on Sundays. The dealer has had this vehicle on his lot for a few months, so I don't think he has the vehicle priced correctly. I would use this vehicle to pass down to three daughters over the next seven years and a warranty, if priced properly and from a Toyota dealer, would seem to be a benefit.

morunner2 · November 2002

For '03 4-runner owners, please participate in this mileage survey.
Please state the type of driving for which you measured your mileage and the results.
For survey consistency, choose a category 1 and a category 2 condition.
1. Hilly or flat.
2. Stop-and-go or freeway.

Thanks for your participation.

TC

jeffjeff · November 2002

I have a 2002 4Runner Limited and I was wondering if any of you all have a 4Runner of this generation and if you have any type of grille guards, tail light guards, bug deflectors or rain/wind deflectors installed on your ride. Also do any of you have the nerf side steps instead of the traditional side steps that come on the Runner? I want to customize my new ride, but I want to put on it only the best equipment. What brands do you all reccommend? Smittybuilt, Jaos, Manik, are these good brands? I want to find something that will cut down on wind noise a bit at highway speeds around 60 or 70 mph. What type of product will do the trick for this, I know someone mentioned this before a while back. Please help me because I love my 4Runner and I want to give it the best.

tfuzz · November 2002

I thought it must be something like that. Clearly the other nearby dealers didn't know about the existence of the Limited Runner I bought. Perhaps that is also why many of the dealers don't list the details of the new Runners they have on their websites--they want to sell'em themselves and not have another dealer have access to them while they are in short supply.

intmed99 · November 2002

Most of the products you listed will likely INCREASE wind noise (or even decrease mileage). All of them increase wind resistance.

I have the bug/hood deflector. BUY FROM TOYOTA! I think that only Toyota bug deflector has rubber cushion to keep the deflector in place. It works i think...it does protect the hood from scratches from stones.

I also have sunroof deflector. It is very helpful at highway speed with the sunroof open. In city driving, it is not very helpful.

The rear wind deflector is for LOOKS ONLY. It doesn't clear my rear cargo window at all. It looks nice though.

dawgpak · November 2002

Perhaps this region isn't getting 4x4 4Runners since our Tech Company 401k's are now 201k's and we can therefore only afford 2Runners now instead of 4Runners.

peter78 · November 2002

On the third generation, the biggest advantage I see is when it rains. I remember driving a friends 4Runner in the rain. It did not have a rear wind deflector and I needed to use the rear wiper almost immediately. My 4Runner has a rear wind deflector and I hardly ever use my rear wiper.

Another benefit on a rear wind deflector is that it helps me get off my kevlar canoe without scratching the back of the SUV. I am sure that is not what Toyota intended the rear wind defector to be used as. : )

mackabee · November 2002

actually, they don't have to look at the other dealers websites. There's a website for Lexus/Toyota dealers only called Dealer Daily that we use to access all the information we need on vehicles that are on order, on ground status, and on their way to the dealerships. This is very handy, but like I said some vehicles will not show up if they have already been reported as sold. For example, let's pretend you are my customer and want a 4wd Limited runner in Pacific Blue and I don't have one in stock. I would log-on to the Dealer Daily and input model number and color code, this would show me which dealers in my region have the vehicle. You would say: "Mack, xyz Toyota down the street has one just like I want but I rather buy from you." I would look at the list of Runners that came up on my screen and xyz Toyota has two showing but they are not in the Pacific Blue, which means they have reported the one they have on the lot as sold. Therefore it would not show up on my screen as being available to me for trade. I hope this clears things up a bit.
: )
Mackabee

jd1318 · November 2002

i wanted the air suspension option on an 03 limited but the toyota build your own site doesn't list it as an available option in my zone, i'm in eastern ma. can anyone tell me what might be the closest state to me that it would be available.

mackabee · November 2002

Try Pennsylvania or Delaware and South Jersey. They are available there. You are looking at $42,598.00 MSRP.
: )
Mackabee

mackabee · November 2002

This includes the Nav system, air suspension,curtain airbags, JBL Synthesis 3-in-1 w/10 speaker stereo, moonroof, rear spoiler, drl's, alloy wheel locks, mats.
: )
Mackabee

tfuzz · November 2002

Thanks for the full explanation. I guess my point was really that, in my experience, the Dealer Daily doesn't work well for hard to find models (like a 4Runner Limited with air suspension, or a Highlander Limited back when they first came out). Prospective buyers might need to contact multiple dealers if they are looking for such a vehicle, because a single dealer might not be able to find it, even if one exists at the next dealership down the road. I also wonder if some dealers don't also "hide" vehicles by limiting the information they give about their stock on their websites--you have to call them to find out details (at least I did). This is not necessarily a criticism of the dealers--If I were a dealer, I probably wouldn't want another dealer selling my hard to find vehicle either--I'd rather sell it myself. ;-)

However, as a buyer for a hard to find HL and now the Runner, I personally found it difficult to find my vehicles, and did so only by contacting many dealers. If I had depended on any one dealer to find my vehicle for me in either case, I'd probably still be waiting. It appears that others are experiencing the same situation. The vehicles exist, but they can be hard to find. Further, as I think you and/or Cliffy have pointed out, a buyer might need to look in several regions to find what they want.

intmed99 · November 2002

Holy crap! Read it on Lexus.com!

nippononly · November 2002

The other day I was looking at the window sticker on a limited 4x4 '03, and the bottom line was $41,xxx.

I couldn't believe how much the top of the line has gone up! But in response to your search - THAT one had everything...I think it even HAD that proverbial sink you mentioned! ;-)

mtclimber · November 2002

Thanks cliffy1 for the info on the Sport 4-Runner I'm looking for. Just one more thing, the TMV price is given for the exact Sport 4-Runner I'm looking for. It says under the price that it is "what others are paying". Does that really mean that others are getting that specific Sport 4-Runner(only a few options, no moonroof, etc.) or is that price based off of something else?

Thanks.

sovang · November 2002

I am considering installing the 3m tape on the hood of my 03 4runner. Does anyone have experience (good or bad) with this product?

SV

stever · November 2002

Just in Time for Spring: A See-Through Paint-Protecting Car Bra -- Why Didn't I Think of That?

Steve, Host

tfuzz · November 2002

morunner2,

My mileage is 16.682 after 1466 miles (4WD).

1. Hilly or Flat FLAT
2. Stop and Go or Freeway MIXED

dawgpak · November 2002

What's your family and income status? [20 votes total]

married? #incomes #kids #/% responses
-------------------------------------------------
Single, 0 Income (1) 5%
Single, 1 Income (5) 25%
Divorsed, 1 Income (1) 5%
Married, 1 Income, 0 Kids (1) 5%
Married, 2 Incomes, 0 Kids (3) 15%
Married, 1 Income, 1-2 Kids (4) 20%
Married, 2 Incomes, 1-2 Kids (4) 20%
Married, 1 Income, 3 or more Kids (1) 5%
Married, 2 Incomes, 3 or more Kids (0) 0%
Other (0) 0%

thanks for your responses....

topgun10 · November 2002

My good friend who has a BMW/Toyota dealership said their Toyota rep told them that Toyota will offer body colored cladding in 90 days on the SR5 models. He said Toyota would typically do a model year revision, but this action would indicate the comments have hit home.

sbell4 · November 2002

a contingency plan was in effect from the release date.

foghorn48 · November 2002

Care to elaborate on those last two comments? What kinda of contingency are we talking about?

charliebrown25 · November 2002

A dealer in southern california is selling a black sports edition with the painted cladding. it looked ok..looking at it really closely the shine is not the same but it will do. Who knows how long that material will hold that paint? Wow imagine the guy up in toyota who gave the green light for the cladding...looking for a job perhaps?
Anyone have any experince in dying leather seats? i want a limited but with black leather. should i try dying them or purchase them seperately. any suggestions or anyone know how much that will cost me?

world_traveler · November 2002

If I would have bought an original 2003 and see the gray plastic cladding/bumper replaced that fast in the model/year I would consider suing the company.

Gee these poor people will get stuck with the "mistake" version of the 2003.

They lost some customers, they will alleniate those who quickly switched to the new 4Runner and render very cautious anyone who is considering this vehicle (what else will they change ????)

Toyota is clearly improvising right now. They screwed up the upgrade and launch of their landmark vehicle. What a mess.....

I'm happy I bought something else in he meantime. I'll let the mess clear up, wait for them to correct those mistakes and I'll hope that come up with something worthy of the 3rd gen by the 2005 model/year.

World
PS: Gee this looks like more and more like a bad version of "Days of our lives".....

mrwhipple · November 2002

All new leather shouldn't cost much more than $1300-$1600. I had a dealer offer to put leather in an SR5.

kjack100 · November 2002

That's a stretch, suing a company for a styling design. I'll bet they charge a pretty good premium for body colored cladding. I would only be concerned from a dealer/manufacturer standpoint that it might cannabalize Limited sales.

Enjoy your Pathfinder.

nippononly · November 2002

Toyota LOWERED the price on brand new Supras by a whopping $10,000 from '96 to '97 - so that drivers of one-year-old cars saw almost 50% depreciation in their first year of ownership! I wonder if anyone sued back then for devaluation of their vehicle...

hannerhan · November 2002

If they do get rid of the cladding in a few months, I don't think it will be a resale disadvantage at all in a few years. Think about it, some people will actually prefer the cladding due to it's durability, etc. If there are only a few thousand of them out there, then it will probably be in demand in a few years. Maybe...

yukon97 · November 2002

Does anyone know if the X-REAS option hampers suspension articulation? I off-road frequently and I fear that this option may interfear with the Runners off-road abilities...

mjohnr99 · November 2002

The cladding revolt here from the little guys at Edmunds and elsewhere seems to ACTUALLY have had an impact . . . maybe credit to various interviews and those telephone calls to Toyota Consumer Affairs some of us made. And to think . . . this is with all the naysayer Toyota gurus trying to sell us that this would never happen mid-year, or even second-year. I'll be impressed if this really comes true. In this regard, seems recent reviews have departed from the initial reviews vis-a-vis the styling. Oh well for me - wish it had been possible to wait a few more months to factory order one of these non-cladding, monochrome black SR5s without the spoiler and with the 17" wheels. Win some, you lose some. But as I advised others before, if unlike me you can afford to wait until January for V6s, you can afford to wait a little longer (maybe until '04s if need be?) to see how the cladding issue is resolved. It may be sooner than later. I am very happy for others if this victory is secured and they will benefit even if I had to unfortunately settle. Sacrificial lamb? NO. Consumer who demands Toyota get it right? YES. If Toyota makes this change for a color-keyed option mid year, then I will be VERY impressed with Toyota, and will be back in their fold to buy the last of the 4th Gen. Run for my next vehicle. Hard to gauge what the public will want, agreed, but if, instead of sticking to a plan to make folks grow to love it, they come clean . . . then that is IMPRESSIVE and kudos to them. Contingency plan? I don't doubt it . . . makes me kind of smile to think that 2-3 months ago the crowd was selling exactly the opposite.

Whoever is reading this at Toyota: whatever way you need to sell this change, go ahead and sell it, but "Just Do It" and don't look back. [Even your in-house counsel will agree that current buyers, moreover buyers forced into other brands, have no cause of action for misrepresentation or anything else.] Good luck to all.

sbell4 · November 2002

con·tin·gen·cy n. pl., con·tin·gen·cies. 1. a. An event that may occur but that is not likely or intended; a possibility. b. A possibility that must be prepared for; a future emergency. 2. The condition of being dependent on chance; uncertainty. 3. Something incidental to something else. con·tingen·cy adj

toyotaken · November 2002

I guess I see the same things here. Why don't we not take ANY responsibility for our own choices? Toyota may decide to change the cladding to color-keyed, so why don't customers who bought the vehicle before the change sue Toyota for not offering it sooner? They decided to buy it that's why the shouldn't. Toyota didn't send a SWAT team into their living rooms to drag them into the dealership to sign paperwork to buy a new 4Runner. They chose to do so on their own. They decided that it was worth the price they payed.

Lets go further. I bought a new car from a dealer that the next person through the door payed $3,000 less for. Should I sue the manufacturer for me not getting a better price? I payed what I thought was fair. If that was more or less than someone else, that may be the case, but it is no less true.

If you or someone else didn't like the cladding enough so that they didn't think that the price was sufficient, then you and they should not and probably did not buy the 4Runner. There have been comments from several people to that effect. If and when they decide to change the cladding, I'm sure that there will be some people who would prefer it the way it is. For those, they have the same recouse as what I said above. Make a statement with your pocketbook.

mrwhipple · November 2002

I think it's wishful thinking. But who knows.

Toyota 4Runner

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