2010 Mazda3

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  • podpod Member Posts: 176
    I recently discovered what a value the Mazda 3 appears to be. I am a minimalist so I may stay with the Mazda 2010 3i (base model below the 3s). I have read and know a lot about it. Some things which I don't know or which give me pause.
    1) Since even the 3 is tuned for performance, is the ride jarring or too communicative, showing all defects on the surface?
    2) How is the road noise on a highway (e.g. us 95)?
    3) Is it possible to turn off the interior lights when driving? Somewhere I read that certain of the dash lights stay on all the time and annoy. I hate light at night.
    4) Have normal sized people (I'm 6 feet and 170#) found the drivers seat too narrow and uncomfortable?
    5) Are the changes between the 2009 and 2010 3i very significant or would I be advised to shop for an unsold 2009?

    These are the few criticisms I have read or heard. I chose the 3i base version because I am a luddite (no cell phone even) and hate the pseudo-fog lights (purely decoration, not useful light in fog or rain, they are outrun at 20 mph), mp3 and bluetooth are foreign phrases to me, I don't care about the quality of the radio (a car is a very imperfect chamber) beyond satisfactory; I hate all the nanny gadgets that, say, the Taurus has added. I wouldn't mind ESC but that is not offered on 3i base. Nor is cruise control which I tend to use on highway). ABS are good. I am impressed with the value that the base offers (you CAN get a good car for about $18K that is not a toy).
    I would appreciate it if present owners would alert me to the warts of the 3 series. I am quite struck by the value and can live with a few warts.
  • rosko311rosko311 Member Posts: 2
    Yeah my SVTs suspension has since been replaced with a Saleen/Racecraft suspension with new control arm bushings and sway bars front and rear. I do appreciated the steering feel of the Focus and am looking for something similar and have since found the XRS to be lacking but have found a new player with the Lancer GTS. I drove a Forte SX Koup today to kind of getta feel for the SX sedan and found the clutch to be very loose compared to my SVT Focus, even when my last clutch was going out in my Focus. Im sure there will be aftermarket kits in the near future to fix this problem but now it seems to be a rat race between the Lancer GTS and the Mazda 3s with the Forte SX being a distance 3rd. Its also going to depend on the deal. I can get smoking deals on the Forte and the GTS but there inlies the problem of resale also. But I did find a unoptioned Mazda 3s a dealer will part for 18700. Oh man this is getting difficult!! ;)
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Maybe there are super deals on '09 Mazda3s stick...

    You should test drive both '09 & '10 Mazda3, not just to see which steering is more commuicative, but you might not appreciate the '10's mid-size bulk w/o a true mid-size sedan's benefits like quietness, smooth ride & rear leg room.

    I drove the '09 side-by-side w/ my Focus ST, both wearing 205/50 tires. The Mazda3's steering is more precise b/c the Focus ST's steering is a little elastic feeling. But the Mazda3's steering feels a little too light at very low speeds.

    I care about ride comfort, too. & I think Mazda tunes the shock absorbers w/ quick rebound motion not relaxing enough for me. In fact, even when wearing 205/55 tires, I still don't find the old Mazda3 smooth-riding enough over bumps.

    The old Mazda3 trail-throttle oversteer a lot. I would only own one with the stability control -- in case the road gets slippery.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is looking to speak new owners of the 2010 Mazda 3 . Please send your daytime phone number to [email protected] by Wednesday, December 9, 2009.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    To find out whether or not the Mazda3 rides too firm for you, you can also test drive the inexpensive Subaru Impreza, which should have a nice resilient ride & still got better steering feel than the Corolla.
  • whobodymwhobodym Member Posts: 190
    true, but in quite a bit of inventory browsing, it looks like only 1 car in 50 is Dune, or so. Why??
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I assume because most people prefer black. My own preferences for interior colors are in order: black, dark gray, gray. That two-tone black and tan interior thing Mazda does would be a horror and deal-breaker for me.

    I also liked the dark blue interior I had in a Contour long ago, but no one does interior colors like that anymore.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I also liked the dark blue interior I had in a Contour long ago, but no one does interior colors like that anymore.

    We had a 2001 Accord LX with a blue cloth interior which I loved. The lighter interiors show dirt terribly (my GF has a Santa Fe with the light colored leather and mats) unless you can get them with black carpet, like in some Fords.

    The interior of my '06 Accord has a blue tint; it was the closest I could get! The picture doesn't do it justice.

    image
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    I don't like black/charcoal or tan. No wonder I am still keeping my old Mazda 3-series -- '90 323 Protege twin cam w/ blue cloth interior.

    I really like the green velour interior that came out before I could drive -- The '78 VW Dasher/Rabbit Champaign Edition, the '79 Audi 5000...& these were quite expensive cars most people couldn't afford.

    In the mid '90's, Lexus also had green leather interior in some GS/LS sedans, & that was the last beautiful thing I saw.
  • unicorn62unicorn62 Member Posts: 13
    To the people that have the mazda3s sport if you live in the places that have the snow, your going to be realy mad!!!!!!!! :mad: I have the mazda3s sport and just with alittle snow it wasn't good at all no traction control what so ever, I was slipping all over the place and car would not stop without sliding to a stop and i wasn't going fast at all. :mad: . Mazda has lost me as a car buyer :lemon: . I live in ohio.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,945
    Shouldn't one have dedicated snow tires if snow is likely during the winter? As I recall, our 3s had performance rubber, not all season tires when we got it. Since we live in South Florida, snow isn't a consideration in tire choice but living up north, that has to be a big consideration with having the proper tires. Why would someone blame the car maker on this issue and not have a plan in place for winter driving?

    Why do so many blame others when a little homework could've helped in this situation? Or maybe I'm missing something here...?

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    I have the mazda3s sport and just with alittle snow it wasn't good at all no traction control what so ever, I was slipping all over the place and car would not stop without sliding to a stop and i wasn't going fast at all.

    Your car is slipping because it is driving on performance tires that are meant for normal conditions not snow and ice. If you drove a Lexus with the same type of tires the same thing would happen. The answer is snow tires; one of the best investments that one could make in improving the drive of any car in wintry conditions.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Before you know who to blame, read the following.

    There's a huge difference, at least b/t these 2 all-season-tires.

    Yokohama AVID S34D (All-Season):

    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentSt- - - - - atus=P&tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID%20S34D&partnum=05VR7S34D&vehicleSearch=t- - - - - rue&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Mazda&autoYear=2010&autoModel=Mazda3%204-Door&auto- - - - - ModClar=s%20Sport

    Goodyear Assurance TripleTred (All-Season):

    (be sure to click on "Mazda" under "Filter by Vehicle")
    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentSt- - - - - atus=P&tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Assurance%20TripleTred&partnum=05VR7ATTXL&veh- - - - - icleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Mazda&autoYear=2010&autoModel=Mazda3%2- - - - - 04-Door&autoModClar=s%20Sport

    It's the top-rated all-season tire in the wet &, especially, snow:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Assurance+Tr- - - - - ipleTred&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=05VR7ATTXL#Survey

    But I would prefer the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S (High Performance All-Season). It's less noisy but still predictable in the wet. Best of all, it improve the grip feel from the steering:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Exalto- - - - - +A%2FS&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=05VR7EXAS#Survey

    (be sure to click on "Mazda" under "Filter by Vehicle")
    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentSt- - - - - atus=P&tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot%20Exalto%20A/S&partnum=05VR7EXAS&vehicl- - - - - eSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Mazda&autoYear=2010&autoModel=Mazda3%204-- - - - - Door&autoModClar=s%20Sport

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/videoDisplay.jsp?ttid=108
  • dilbertsdubdilbertsdub Member Posts: 16
    Had some snow and iced over bridges/overpasses in the north Dallas area today. Not even one issue with traction, braking or steering and all with the 40 mph wind gusts. I have the all season Yokohama AVIDS which will be replaced by even larger 225/45R17's Bridgestone Potenza's or Turanza's, not sure which yet.

    I believe however that if one equates their car with that of a lemon because they feel it lacks traction in a part of the country that regularly experiences very snowy conditions it perhaps says more about the driver and/or their driving abilities/experience than it does of the car itself.

    Merry Xmas!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Before you know who to blame, read the following...

    I have, for years. It's only taught me ONE thing about Tireracks survey and comments: Everyone has an opinion, and has no problem sharing it. If you want RELIABLE information about tires, take a look into Tirerack's actual tests and the numbers they generate. They base everything on identical conditions with identical cars, something that NO other person has easy access to.

    Besides, how can you tell if one person (or all of them) work for the tire company directly, and just posts using different names to inflate their rating? Conversely, how can you tell if they work for a competitior and purposely deflate the numbers?

    You can't.

    And for the record, a good set of snow tires is still a VAST improvement over 99.9% of the all-season tires on the market today with any kind or amount of snow on the pavement. Being from Upstate NY in snow-belt country, I can personally attest to that, and will NOT drive anything up here from November to April without snow tires on it.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    I believe however that if one equates their car with that of a lemon because they feel it lacks traction in a part of the country that regularly experiences very snowy conditions it perhaps says more about the driver and/or their driving abilities/experience than it does of the car itself.

    And we have a winner... :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Agree with you on the worthlessness of surveys. Like you I would (and did) look at tire rack's actual tests of tires and also at the CR tests.

    I've never bothered with snow tires myself. Our roads in WI are pretty well plowed and salted after it snows, so the times when it might be worth while having them are very limited and, therefore it is not worth the hassle and bother (or having poorer performance in other, more common, conditions) to me.

    In the CR tests, the snow and ice performance of different (non-winter) tires varied quite a bit, ranging from "poor" on both for Yokohama Avid V4s to "very good" on both for Hankook Optimo H727.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I also agree with you and greyghost on this.

    The first, and only time I read the user reviews on TireRack.com, I noticed that every single tire had great reviews as well as ones that read "worst tire ever, will never buy again!"....needless to say, I looked elsewhere.

    I also rely on my local tire supplier for our dealership for info as well. He has a really good idea of what works well. I replaced my OEM Michelins on my Mazda6 with Yokahama Avid T4's (all season) and so far they are pretty good in both snow and dry pavement. BTW, I got a $65/tire discount on them as well...I was THRILLED!!
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Of these 3 different Yokohama tires' snow/ice performance, the (OEM tires on the new Mazda3S Sport) AVID S34D (All-Season) is the worst, followed by the AVID V4S (High Performance All-Season), then the Avid T4 (all season).

    Since the AVID S34D (All-Season) is too new, there isn't any survey data or test result from Tire Rack yet. But their customers' reviews already revealed obvious warning signs. You can ignore owners' raving, but you can't overlook those who pointed out the faults.

    It's no coincident that every single driver complains about the AVID S34D in the owners' reviews. So don't blame the design of the new Mazda3; blame the tires:
    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentSt- - - - - atus=P&tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID%20S34D&partnum=05VR7S34D&vehicleSearch=t- - - - - rue&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Mazda&autoYear=2010&autoModel=Mazda3%205-Door&auto- - - - - ModClar=s%20Sport

    Fewer Mazda owners complained about the AVID V4S (High Performance All-Season) in snow/ice:
    (be sure to click on "Mazda" under "Filter by Vehicle")
    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&tireMake=- - - - - Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+V4S&tirePageLocQty=&commentStatus=P#
    (survey):
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+V4S#Sur- - - - - vey

    & even more rare to see Mazda owners complained about the Avid T4 (all season) in snow/ice:
    (be sure to click on "Mazda" under "Filter by Vehicle")
    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&tireMake=- - - - - Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+T4&tirePageLocQty=&commentStatus=P
    (survey):
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVID+T4#Surv- - - - - ey

    But there are even worse all-season tires out there for snow driving!

    How about the OEM tires on the new Mazda3i:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Turanza+E- - - L400-02&partnum=055HR6EL40002V5&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Maz- - - da&autoYear=2010&autoModel=Mazda3%204-Door&autoModClar=i%20Sport#Survey

    http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&tireMake=- - Bridgestone&tireModel=Turanza+EL400-02&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&partn- - um=055HR6EL40002V5&tirePageLocQty=%26partnum%3D055HR6EL40002V5&commentStatus=P
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    I've never bothered with snow tires myself. Our roads in WI are pretty well plowed and salted after it snows, so the times when it might be worth while having them are very limited and, therefore it is not worth the hassle and bother (or having poorer performance in other, more common, conditions) to me.

    I can agree with that. The problem that we have up here in Central NY is those pain-in-the-[non-permissible content removed] Great Lakes, and the "instant" snowstorms they generate. In a 30-mile stretch of I-81, it can go from sunny and dry conditions, to 4-inch snow-covered pavement with snow falling at 3-5 inches per hour, and back to dry, sunny conditions.

    I've also found that some of the "performance winter" tires do offer very good snow traction when it's needed (and a huge step over all-seasons), and also do handle and perform well in dry and wet conditions (in most cases just as well, if not better, than all-seasons).
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yes, being on the other side of the lake(s) makes a difference, our average is about 45 inches of snowfall per year, while on the other side of lake michigan, Grand Rapids averages 72 inches. Of course "inches" are not the full story of snow, but I assume that the quality of the snow directly across the lake is pretty similar.

    There is a big difference between the light powder we get when it, say, 10 or 15 deg and the wet heavy stuff when it is right around 32. We recently got 10 inches of the wettest, heaviest snow I think I have ever seen...I'd say it was nearly the consistency and density of wet cement. Had it been really cold at the time, that might have been more like 3 feet of powder. OTOH, when it is not so cold the salt does work much better.
  • unicorn62unicorn62 Member Posts: 13
    To the person said i was a bad driver or very wrong!!!!!!!! I have never had a accident in my life!!!!!!! How can you say something like that when you don't know the person. I didn't say the car was bad, I was saying the tires were no good. Who can afford to keep changing tires. Mazda should have put the best tires on the car for people that live in states that have snow as well as the states that have alot of rain for traction. The 2010 mazda3 is a well done car but the tires are a :lemon: :mad: . By the way how many people got the mazda3 and are not working that can afford buying different tires that are watching there penny's and shouldn't have to buy different tires.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Totally agree. If Consumer Reports' tire test already shows how "poor" the AVID V4S performs on snow/ice, then the AVID S34D on your car should do even poorer!

    Different Yokohama AVID tires perform differently on snow/ice.

    The AVID T4 shouldn't perform as poorly on snow/ice as the other two AVIDs (V4S & S34D).

    The OEM all-season tires on the new Mazda3 w/ 16"s -- the Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 -- should perform even worse than your S34D on snow/ice. So the owners should know that switching to just a different set of ALL-SEASON tires (especially the Goodyear Assurance Triple Tred) will already make a night-&-day difference!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I didn't say the car was bad, I was saying the tires were no good. Who can afford to keep changing tires. Mazda should have put the best tires on the car for people that live in states that have snow as well as the states that have alot of rain for traction

    IIRC, you did say you would never buy a Mazda again and blamed the car for how it drives.

    Now, for a car company the builds and designs a vehicle with the "soul of a sports car", why would they engineer the Mazda3 to adhear to the select few in the world that do a lot of winter weather driving? The Mazda3, and most all Mazda's for that matter, are designed on dry pavement and built to excel in dry weather driving. Also, it is very rare for an economy car from any manufacturer to have a purpose-built winter weather car, unless that company is Subaru.

    Mazda makes no effort to hind the fact that their cars are better dry weather drivers, and the tires they select to put on their cars also suggest that.

    Can we say that the Mazda3 might not have been the best choice for you, since you do a good amount of winter weather driving?
  • sonnyrockersonnyrocker Member Posts: 127
    Aviboy,
    Excellent response. If someone is going to be driving a lot in winter weather, he/she should look into getting a 4x4. Mazda3 is not made for that. In fact, most high performance cars are rear-wheel drive and they are even worse than the 3, since its front-wheel drive.
    Stop complaining. I am very happy with Mazda 3 and it performs very well. If you don't like factory tires, then replace them with snow tires. But really, you should be getting a 4x4 instead if this is your concern.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I am very happy with Mazda 3 and it performs very well. If you don't like factory tires, then replace them with snow tires. But really, you should be getting a 4x4 instead if this is your concern.

    I have a 05 Mazda6, and the OEM Michelins that came with it were garbage in the winter and they did not have very long tread life. I replaced them with the Yokohama Avid T4's, and I have been thrilled.

    A good set of snow tires does wonders for the Mazda3, and any front drive car for that matter.

    My wife has an Impreza and I did not get the snow tires on it in time for our first snow storm. It did not drive all that well with the Cooper Tires I have on it. I was slipping all over the place. Well, now I have the Michelin snow's on them, and it's like a tank. I have never been stuck.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    The Mazdaspeed6 has AWD. That doesn't mean AWD is not sporty! In fact WRX & EVO all have it. Mazda is just too lazy to put it together for this country. Come on, 2.5 is sufficient to power the AWD drivetrain. The parts are already available from its sibling S40/V50. & the faster-acceleration-than-stick dual-clutch automatic is also ready. Even the base-model of the Mexican-built "Mazda2's brother" -- the entry-level Fiesta -- got it.

    The 1990 Protege had 1.8 for the AWD model in the U.S.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    IMO it is just as silly to say that anyone who drives in winter should get a 4x4 as it is to say you will never buy a Mazda because the OEM tires did not meet your expectations for winter driving.

    I would say if one is that fussy about performance in snow, then they should consider getting winter tires or else get something that is better than the OEMs in winter and selling the newish OEM tires on craigslist. I do understand that that it would be annoying and frustrating to have to spend $500-600 replacing perfectly good tires.

    My 2007 Mazda6 OEM tires are really not good in winter at all, either. My only thought regarding that was that I assumed Mazda went for sportiness over winter practicality. I made the choice to just put up with them until they are worn out, then I'll get some that are better. Given the ~$200 price of the OEMs it was a certainty that when they needed replacing, I'd be betting something different anyway.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The Mazdaspeed6 has AWD. That doesn't mean AWD is not sporty! In fact WRX & EVO all have it

    The Mazdaspeed6 was a limited production, high performance model. The EVO and WRX are also high performance (high price tag!!!!) We are talking about economy cars here. Please show me a turbo charged AWD sedan under $20,000. Oh, that's right...it does not exist.

    Come on, 2.5 is sufficient to power the AWD drivetrain. The parts are already available from its sibling S40/V50

    I agree, however, Mazda being a small company has chosen not to go the AWD route for their models, for the total demand to account for the cost is just not there. Ford does not sell too many AWD Fusions, BTW.

    Also, Mazda does not source their AWD components from Volvo.

    Even the base-model of the Mexican-built "Mazda2's brother" -- the entry-level Fiesta -- got it.

    The Mazda2 and Ford Fiesta are more like distant cousins. They share a platform. Thats it. Different drivetrains, suspension, body & interior components. Also, I don't recall the Fiesta coming in AWD. The Fiesta is also based off of the Mazda2, not the other way around.

    So, to repeat myself, only Subaru has decided to go the economy-AWD route, and they have dedicated their entire line to AWD. They are a nitch brand and only sell in markets where winter driving is abundant. Mazda cannot do that.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Given the ~$200 price of the OEMs it was a certainty that when they needed replacing, I'd be betting something different anyway.

    I would look at the Avid T4's for you Mazda6. I live in CT, and we have had a lot of snow so far, and I have driven around just fine. They also handle pretty well on dry roads as well.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    "Also, it is very rare for an economy car from any manufacturer to have a purpose-built winter weather car, unless that company is Subaru."

    Hahaha - you would think so, wouldn't you? Then try to explain the OEM tires than came on my 09 subaru outback:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+R- E92A

    There's no excusing the poor OEM tires used on new cars. Factors other than performance, such as cost, must be more important to the vehicle manufacturers.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Subaru's better use the worst snow-performing tires. Otherwise that'll make the other car companies look real bad. Can you imagine how much more $ Land Rover's are charging?

    Recently one Subaru Impreza 2.5 AWD sedan w/ premium package was advertised for under $15k in California!
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    I don't like black/charcoal or tan. No wonder I am still keeping my old Mazda 3-series -- '90 323 Protege twin cam w/ blue cloth interior.

    I really like the green velour interior that came out before I could drive -- The '78 VW Dasher/Rabbit Champaign Edition, the '79 Audi 5000...& these were quite expensive cars most people couldn't afford.

    In the mid '90's, Lexus also had green leather interior in some GS/LS sedans, & that was the last beautiful thing I saw.


    Most new cars have just two interior color options! Inevitably, the hues are limited to some variation of beige and gray. They try to make them sound like something interesting with names like names like Bisque, Dune, Blonde, Taupe, Frost, Stone and Graphite...but they're still dull-as-dishwater beige and gray!

    Thankfully, some do offer a black interior option for those who prefer a dark interior color. I've owned 11 cars in 21 years, all with dark interiors. When I was shopping for my car in late 2005, the black interior of the Mazda3 s was a selling point!

    My two favorite interior colors were on my '89 and '92 Accords. The '89 was Polar White with "Brown-Red" interior which looked much better than the name implies. In my LXi model, the seats were just a rich brown and only the dash and door panels had any sort of reddish tint. My '92 was Frost White with Blue interior. It wasn't quite as dark as a navy blue, but not a tacky Smurfy blue either! :P Interestingly, the Civic Hybrid ('06-present) and the new Insight (Hybrid) are the only Hondas since '93 to offer Blue interior as an option. I'm not sure why they think that only hybrid owners would be interested in the blue interior? Blue is actually the most soothing and calming of all colors...maybe it's to help them keep their cool during the long wait from 0mph up to highway speed??? :P ;)

    But I also cringe when I remember the interior of my mom's '86 Cutlass and my sister's '85 300ZX. The Olds was "maroon" velour: a double whammy of an awful color and dreadful fabric. But the 300ZX was even more horrific in "RED", as the window sticker referred to it. It's a color you would only see today in a slaughterhosue or perhaps a crime scene!? :P The "Mr Roboto" digital dash was far too busy-looking the ones with tan, blue, black or silver/gray interior. But surrounded by a vast expanse of blood-colored dashboard, the mostly green digital readouts and graphs were soothing! I discovered the secret to enjoying the Z was simple- I only borrowed it after DARK! :P
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    "There's no excusing the poor OEM tires used on new cars. Factors other than performance, such as cost, must be more important to the vehicle manufacturers."

    I'm surprised Subaru chose that tire for the Outback! I'm sure cost is the primary factor, but there are other tires in the same price range that perform better in the Winter/Snow ratings!?? Then again, I was comparing them based on retail pricing, which has no correlation to the price that Subaru negotiated with Bridgestone.

    My '06 Mazda3 s 5-door came with Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires which were shot at 28k miles. I was STUNNED when I learned that it would cost $238 per tire (before any fees/taxes/road hazard added) to replace with the same ones!!! The car has never been driven in snow (I'm in Georgia, we rarely see snow and we're smart enough to stay home on the rare occasion that it does), but it has very low scores on TireRack's Winter/Snow ratings.

    The problem I had with the RS-As was thier abysmal performance in the rain! That's something we do see a lot of in Georgia and I quickly learned to avoid driving in the rain if possible, thanks to those stupid tires! With those tires, the car would hydroplane worse than any car I've ever had (including my '85 CRX that weighed about half as much)! The other issue was how easily the front tires would spin when starting off on wet pavement. Twice I pulled out across traffic only to end up ACROSS lanes of oncoming traffic when I lost traction! After that, I decided to sacrifice some clutch life instead of my own life and started slipping it when taking off on wet roads. :confuse:

    But in dry weather, they lived up to the "Zoom Zoom" hype and then some! The car stayed glued to road and, in the curves, my courage ran out long before their grip! :surprise: I think that Mazda made dry weather handling the highest priority to deliver on the 'Zoom Zoom' image....but at the expense of wet and winter traction AND longevity!

    Needless to say, I didn't pay $238 each for those tires! I went with Dunlop SP Sport Signatures that were $114 each instead. They've lasted 44k miles so far and still have plenty of tread life. I've never hydroplaned or lost traction during start off on wet pavement with them. Ride quality improved noticeably in dry weather as did road noise (reduced)....and it still takes S-curves better than any Honda or Acura I've ever owned!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Good Morning Everyone-

    I found this article today on autoblog that talks about snow tires vs AWD. Very interesting.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/29/proper-winter-tires-are-more-important-than-a- ll-wheel-drive/#continued
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    It was not mentioned, but I suspect winter tires help with stopping too...something that AWD is no help with (though many drivers of these vehicles drive as if this were not so).

    For the Georgian - many place have things like snow plows and salt. Thus most of the time the roads are just wet or, perhaps, slushy within hours after the snow stops. :P

    Once drove through KY and TN 24 hours+ after snow had ended. Went from driving on 4 inches of ice to wet pavement to ice again to pavement again as we went from county to county. This seemed to be the result of some counties actually clearing the interstate highway with actual snow plows and salt, while others seemingly did absolutely nothing or maybe had a road grader that they pretended was a snow plow.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/29/proper-winter-tires-are-more-important-than-a- - ll-wheel-drive/#continued
    This example is really "Snow Tires vs AWD wearing the #1 disastrous-snow-performing all-season tires". LOL

    Because the only OEM all-season tires on the new Subaru Legacy is the Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ST&width=215%- - - 2F&ratio=50&diameter=17&tireSearch=true&autoMake=Subaru&autoYear=2010&autoModel=- - - Legacy%20Sedan&autoModClar=2.5i%20Limited

    How can anyone be talented enough to pick out the worst tires possible for the snow?

    I'm beginning to suspect that Subaru wants to help tire sales...

    Therefore, this article still doesn't convince me how mighty the snow tires are.

    I really want to see if this Subaru is still handicapped on snow when wearing a different set of all-season tires, such as the Goodyear Assurance Triple Tred:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=AS&width=205%- - - 2F&ratio=60&diameter=16&tireSearch=true&autoMake=Subaru&autoYear=2010&autoModel=- - - Legacy%20Sedan&autoModClar=2.5i
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Therefore, this article still doesn't convince me how mighty the snow tires are.

    Apparently, since they weren't reviewed in a bias-filled Tirerack survey, it's info isn't quite good enough?

    Take it from a person that's driven within the snow belt for their entire life, winter tires are for real, and I'd take them on ANY vehicle over any AWD vehicle (Subaru or otherwise) with any all-season tires. The winter tire advantages are quite huge, such as:
    1. Great traction in snow/slush, not only in aiding acceleration, but also in steering, stopping, and overall handling, something that AWD does not do.
    2. Effectively doubles the life of your tires, since you're running two sets of tires per year.
    3. No AWD penalty (added weight, lower gas mileage, increased chance for mechanical breakdown.
    4. Less expensive. A good set of winter tires/wheels can run about $600 (even less for just winter tires), a huge price savings over a comparably-equipped AWD vehicle.

    More proof? Check out this article done by another reputable source. Better yet, check out these links from actual Tirerack TESTS, here, here, and here. The last article shows a definitive difference between AWD vehicles using all-season versus winter tires.

    It's been said before, and will continue to be said: It's not the car, it's the tires.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    One of the snow tires tested by CR was rated as poor on snow and/or ice. So just being designated a "winter tire" or "snow tire" is not a guarantee of good snow/ice performance, apparently.

    Switching tires does not double tire life. You buy two sets of tires and have them twice as long (maybe). If I bought two sets of all-seasons that does not double the tires life, it just means I have bought replacement tires in advance, buying snows is effectively the same thing. Also tires should be replaced after about 6 years anyway, for someone like me 6 years is maybe 50,000 miles so I'd be buying 8 tires every 50,000 miles and getting only 25,000 miles per set.

    None of this is meant to disagree with your main points that if you want the best performance in winter, a good set of winter tires is likely to give you that and if you are choosing between AWD and winter tires to accomplish this goal, going for the tires is probably the better option.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    One of the snow tires tested by CR was rated as poor on snow and/or ice. So just being designated a "winter tire" or "snow tire" is not a guarantee of good snow/ice performance, apparently.

    Well, the only thing I trust CR for is appliances, since IMO they're not quite as car-savvy as other sources in terms of both cars and tires. Besides, whether or not it's rated "good" in snow/ice, chances are that winter tire will still do better than an all-season. Just proves that one should keep up on their research before making a purchase, right? :)

    Switching tires does not double tire life...

    Yeah, I guess I didn't phrase that part very well. If you do run with winter tires, It does increase the amount of time that one has between replacing a set of summer/all-season tires with another set of summer/all-season tires, without an increase in treadlife, obviously.

    None of this is meant to disagree with your main points that if you want the best performance in winter, a good set of winter tires is likely to give you that and if you are choosing between AWD and winter tires to accomplish this goal, going for the tires is probably the better option.

    It's too bad that most people in snowy climates doesn't seem to (or refuse to) understand that. You don't NEED a gas-guzzling SUV or AWD vehicle to get around in winter months.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Besides, whether or not it's rated "good" in snow/ice, chances are that winter tire will still do better than an all-season.

    No, that's the point, that apparently there are at least some winter tires that perform worse than at least some A/S. Granted the winter tire that performed poorly in winter conditions was the exception. But they rated Hankook icebear W300 "poor" for "snow traction" and "good" for "ice braking". Meanwhile a number of A/S tires were rated "good" or better for snow traction and also "good" or better for ice braking.

    The Michelin Primacy MXV4 was rated very good on ice braking and good for snow traction and Hankook Optimo H727 was very good on both of those winter tests.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    It's too bad that most people in snowy climates doesn't seem to (or refuse to) understand that. You don't NEED a gas-guzzling SUV or AWD vehicle to get around in winter months.

    You can put my wife in that category. She refuses to drive anything but a Subaru because of snow. Listen to this....she is a teacher...she does not go to work when it snows!!! She stays home!!! LOL!!!
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    I think a Subaru is a very good winter vehicle - and superior to most when equipped with tires suited to local conditions. They have better ground clearance than FWD cars and a low center of gravity with the boxer engine. I can't remember the last subaru I've seen slid off a road. On the other hand, I see so many Explorers slid off the road that I sometimes wonder if there is one left in the county, only to have one fly past me at 80, fishtailing in the snow, and then I see it a few miles later - upside down or on its side. I used to think that Ford must require buyers to turn in the part of the brain responsible for common sense with their down payments. I've been told that is optional. So I now wonder if off-gassing Ford plastics might destroy the common sense areas of Explorer drivers in snow.

    Cars, with their low ground clearance should not be out in deep snow anyway. Any car with a skilled driver with appropriate tires trumps careless drivers of any vehicle type, however equipped. I never worry too much about driving in the snow. I always worry about the fools on the road in the winter.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Perhaps she want's the option to go out shopping on those snow days? ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Perhaps she want's the option to go out shopping on those snow days?

    Exactly....she is the one who wants to go out and do things when it snows.....shopping....going out to eat...etc...
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Hey, that would be a great subaru commercial. The radio announces that schools are closed & the teacher can now take her subaru to the mall.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Has anyone driven both the 2.5 non-turbo Impreza & the 2.5 Mazda3? They look remarkably similar, but is the Subaru suppose to ride smoother while providing a more-numb steering feel? Which one is quieter?

    At the LA Autoshow, I noticed the Impreza has very poor leg room on the right side.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Hey, that would be a great subaru commercial. The radio announces that schools are closed & the teacher can now take her subaru to the mall.

    That it would!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Has anyone driven both the 2.5 non-turbo Impreza & the 2.5 Mazda3? They look remarkably similar, but is the Subaru suppose to ride smoother while providing a more-numb steering feel? Which one is quieter?

    The 2.5 in the Impreza is quieter then it used to be, but there is still that Subaru "wonk, wonk, wonk" sound from the boxer engine. I think the 2.5 in the Mazda is quieter.

    As for road noise, the Subaru has a slight advantage.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    I remember the Volvo S40/V50 5-cyl non-turbo 2.4 revs like it's working harder than the 2.3 in the Mazda3.

    I guess the VW 5-cyl 2.5 should also rev louder than Mazda's 2.3/2.5?

    Lately, I drove an '09 Mazda3 2.0 4-sp automatic. The engine quietness was pretty sad when passing. I hate most automatic. Dual-clutch should be the only automatic, just like the Ford Fiesta.
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