Toyota 4Runner

asdf · March 2003

Hi all,
My friend bought his automatic 4runner in 99 new. He always shift to N position (from D) while slowing down approaching redlights, stop signs, while waiting on traffic or going downhills (when it's ok, he knows about engine break). He says that it helps saving fuel and a bit on transmission, and also feel like stickshift! My opinion is that doing so will somehow kill the transmission faster (too many shift between D and N positions).
Please let us know what you think. Thank you.
(His 4runner still runs like new now!)

sopecreek · March 2003

I do the same ONLY when I stop at the traffic light for long period, not so much to save fuel or AT, but to rest my leg. I believe it will actually hurt the AT for other situations your friend mentioned.

beagles3 · March 2003

Never thought about that unless I was low on gas and I was coasting down a long hill? But, at stoplights (when they tend to be long waits) I do tend to put mine in park to help save on the brakes (especially when it's hot outside) and rest my leg too? I had a mechanic once tell me that some folks tend to ride their brakes and if they do and they come to a stop, it's a good thing to let it roll forward a few ft in order to cool the pads/rotors so it will help prevent excessive rotor warp??? Does this sound weird?

cliffy1 · March 2003

I know I am late to this party and many of you have a pretty good grasp on what is going on. There are two different odors. One is the cosmoline burning off. That goes away rather quickly. The worst I have ever seen took 200 miles to dissipate. The sulfur smell is different. I'll defer to Toyota's TSB on it being a fuel additive thing, but I have also noticed that I only get it on my V8 Tundra if I am VERY heavy on the throttle. If I ease up a bit and am not concerned about beating everybody else to the next red light, I never get it.

carattorney · March 2003

Thank you for your explanation of what the chemical is that is sprayed prior to shipping. If that burn off within 200 miles or so, it should not be the problem some are haveing with long term odors.

If a TSB is claiming that a fuel additive is causing the repeated odors, then why is this not a problem in more vehicles. I have driven/owned many different makes an models of car/trucks, all seasons of the year and have not had that problem? If fuel additives were causing odors in many vehicles, this would have come to the attention of the NTSB a long time ago and changes would have been made. Manufacturers know what is in fuel--they would be the first to complain to Washington and the the oil companies if it was causing a widespread problem with their vehicles. The story would be on 60 minutes.

What is it about the design of the new 4-runner or the engine that is causing that problem. It seem as if the V8 is afflicted. That same V8 engine has been out in the Sequoia for some time? What is it about the new 4-runner that creates a problem?

Just some questions for everyone to ponder?

stever · March 2003

Ford:

Official Petition to Ford/Mazda - Escape / Tribute gas odors II

GM:

2001 Suburban exhaust odor

VW, Nissan, Infiniti, Pontiac, BMW, KIA, Buick (and more!):

Rotten Egg smell exhaust

and that's just from a quick 2 minute search of Town Hall...

Steve, Host

vaughn4 · March 2003

I have read all the posts about the odor from the 03 4Runner. My 03 V8 Sport 4Runner has this same rotten egg smell. It permeates the cabin sometimes even with all windows closed and the A/C in recirculate. I'm concerned this is harmful to my occupants. I called Toyota and they blame it on the gas. I use the EXACT same gas in our 98 Expedition and NO SMELL at all. This is a shame! A $30K vehicle that smells like this. I too am thinking of filing the lemon law. I have had at least 20 different cars since 1987 and NON have ever smelled like this.

Also, this is the first vehicle I have ever owned that did not achieve the posted EPA gas mileage printed on the window sticker. I have not been able to manage over 17 mpg at any time.

cliffy1 · March 2003

Your Expedition has a V8 that meets ULEV standards for 2003? Of course it doesn't. Back in the "old days", sulphur smells were attributed to catyletic converters gone bad. I suspect they still play a role in what we are smelling. If that is the case, it most likely has something to do with the emission control devices and it is very possible that fuel additives have a lot to do with this.

This issue is NOT exclusive to the Runner. Beyond those links that Steve provided showing other affected car lines, this has been discussed in the Sequoia topic and I have it in my Tundra (again, I only get it when I lead foot the thing).

chris_in_boise · March 2003

I've got a V8 in my 2003 4Runner Sport, and don't have the smell problem.

I remember on the window sticker that I DO have the "50-state emission" feature. Maybe that's got something to do with it.

peter78 · March 2003

The story of the transmission reminds me of a story I read in Road and Track. A husband made the wife open the hood of her car to cool off the hoses, so they can last longer. The response from Road and Track would be much as what I am about to say, Yes, putting the transmission in neutral may help in mileage, but you could cause damage and it is much ado about nothing.

I have also heard about moving a little to save the brakes. The theory is when you brake hard and stop the pads are very hot and at a stop, the heat is just one area of the disc. If you move a little the heat moves to another part of the disc. Once again much ado about nothing.

rickwil61 · March 2003

I just wanted to confirm something about the odor. Judging from some of the posts this thing is pretty bad, I mean like "gag a maggot" bad where it almost makes you sick to be in the vehicle, is this correct? I'm sort of like cliffy where if I have fresh air coming in and I get on the throttle pretty hard I can pick up an odor. I wouldn't describe it as rotten eggs but it does smell exhaust related. It's not something that would make you sick and most of the time I don't notice it.

I'm just trying to gauge how severe the problem is for people who are experiencing it. Is it something that literally makes you sick or is it something that doesn't necessarily drive you out of the car but you feel that for 30K there shouldn't be any odor at all. (Which I wouldn't disagree with)

reddfish · March 2003

I believe the problem is widespread in the 03 4runners, but I don't know exactly why. I don't think Toyota knows either. If you have an 03 4runner with no odor problems, consider yourself lucky. We didn't want this problem and we have over 3000 miles now and we still experience this horrific stench. I also believe it to be a health problem. I have never had a vehicle, new or used, that ever had a problem like this. This is a smell that can (and has) made us sick. Puke sick. I do not have to jump on the throttle to creat it either. It can happen anytime, even at cruise.If anyone is thinking of filing a lemon law claim also, my advice is not to delay and document everything. I waited 10 years to buy this truck and I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am because of this situation. I think there may be something unique to the 03 4runner that is creating this problem. Again, everyone's comments and posts are appreciated.

nippononly · March 2003

even if you dig amongst the Toyota threads, you will find this complaint widespread among the corolla and camry owners as well, in the 49 states. And Nissan owners have had a lot of problems with this.

I don't know what changes Toyota has been making recently in engine management software, but these are all the most recently redesigned vehicles that have this smell.

Don't forget, the gas sold in the 49 states has some of the highest sulfur content around (and I mean, internationally).

I say 49, because California mandated the low sulfur gas a couple of years ago, so that our gas here has less than 1/10 as much sulfur in it as everyone else. I have been asking people in the threads, and I have yet to find anyone with this complaint that is driving in California...is anyone here with a rotten-egg smell a CA driver?

nippononly · March 2003

gas is mandated to have the same low-sulfur content as CA by 2005.

andrews928 · March 2003

Picked up an 03 Limited in January. No sulfer smell, ever. It would be interesting to find out if this thing is regional. Any chance a certain additive is in our gas in the Northeast during the winter? I also test drove 2 other 4Runners before I decided and neither one had that sulfer smell. I also have not heard of this problem from any GX470 owner on their message boards.

pat84 · March 2003

I believe the "rotten egg smell" is sulfer di-oxide. Anyone who took chemistry in the 60's at the U of MD would recognize that smell. The whole Chem building reeked of it.
  I live in the DC area, on the other side of the DC Beltway from Cliffy. I have an 03 with the V-8.
  MD requires "oxygenated" gas sold in the State during the Winter months to reduce pollution. North East states may also do this. It may reduce sulfer emissions.
I have noticed a very mild sulfer di-oxide smell when I used Amoco gas. I do not notice it on CITGO. Maybe CITGO has a lower sulfer content. I did notice that It seemed worse on Amoco after I accelerated faster than usual, then parked and got out. I have never smelled it inside with the A/C on, or with the windows open.
   No way was it so bad as to cause my wife or two daughters to even remark about it, when we got out of the 4Runner. They are no strangers to complaining, either.
   I am very satisfied with the vehicle. I would buy it all over again, even with the snow almost all melted. I'm going down to the Outer Banks of NC this weekend to play with my 4Runner in the sand.

vaughn4 · March 2003

Regarding my earlier post...I called four of the area dealers this morning, two didn't know (or claim to know) of what I was talking about. The other two attributed the odor to the catalytic converter being so new and undercoating and that it would eventually get better - I'm not so sure as they didn't seem too convincing - What a bust!! Again, the smell is so strong that my kids blame each other for it. Once after the parking the truck you could smell it on the outside. When I got back in it a couple of minutes later the smell was still inside the cabin. It is actually like a sewer smell. Toyota better rethink how they are engineering the emissions on this truck because this will create a problem for them if people continue to complain. I don't think people will chance the purchase of a $30K vehicle if it may smell like rotten eggs. Take your chances...

vodgut · March 2003

My parents had an 1983 Buick LeSabre station wagon that stunk up everything when it's emissions system had a problem. Sounds like an emissions problem. That car lost all sorts of power with that problem, though.

Interesting, though, that this isn't limited to the 4Runner. Sounds like you'd be taking your chances with getting a stinky vehicle no matter what you buy.

Our gas here in CO is oxygenated, too.

I'd imagine they put the 50 state emissions on all the vehicles sold here in the US. It's a no-charge option.

I'm glad my 4Runner doesn't stink. It kicked major @$$ this morning in our big snowstorm. The VSC kicked in a few times in parking lots and the side roads. We've got probably 6 or 8 inches of snow already, looking for 10 to 20 more over the next 36 hours.

jaredmsd · March 2003

I want to second nippononly's question. Are any of you that are having this smell in California??

stever · March 2003

Yes on a Hyundai, but it was early days - maybe "Kosmo" burning off?

ariellyn "Hyundai Santa Fe problems" Aug 6, 2001 5:29pm

Never in CA:

nippononly "Vibe and Matrix Maintenance & Repair Concerns" Mar 12, 2003 8:32pm

I seem to remember a post, maybe in that M&R Rotten Egg board, where one refinery in Michigan was already meeting 2007 standards for low sulfur gas and that was supposed to cure the problem.

Steve, Host

sovang · March 2003

I have an 2003 4runner SR5 and I live in CO, and YES, I get the stinky smell. However, it only comes inside the truck when I have the rear windows down or when I come to a quick stop. Other than that, I don't smell it inside the cabin. The point is, the smell is there.....and it is not limited to Toyota..

SV

kstitt · March 2003

I have a V8 2003 4runner. I have not noticed the smell. That's a small consolation for the higher gasoline prices here.

stever · March 2003

and I even had it bookmarked:

h109 "Mazda MPV Problems" Jan 29, 2003 11:47am

It links to a Mazda TSB about the smell, and applies to all Mazda models.

Unrepairable Foul Emission Oder In New Camry is a whole 'nother discussion about the smell (Toyota! and Saabs) and some more suggestions.

Steve, Host

kjack100 · March 2003

The Crosslander built in Brazil, due this summer. Looks cool. Link:

http://www.crosslander4x4.com/toc/

stever · March 2003

Check out:

leedavidyoung "Cross Lander" Mar 18, 2003 11:42am

Steve, Host

mdjeepman · March 2003

Is it true that the 2003 4 Runners REQUIRE PREMIUM gas (according to edmunds)? Just wondering, as I am considering buying one. I don't think Sequoia requires premium tho, just regular (per edmunds). So what do your owners manuals say, 4 runner owners?

pat84 · March 2003

I have been running my 03 V-8 on a steady diet of 87 octane. It runs just fine in MD.

beercoll1 · March 2003

I recently went over the 1000 mile mark on my 2003 V8 Sport 4-Runner. I had not noticed the smell. Just as an experiment, I tried flooring it. Just as Cliffy stated, the smell was present. I did have my windows open, and a little of the exhaust came in. However, when I went back tto my normal driving, the smell was not present. I live in the northeast, where the gas is oxgenated during the winter months.
I have had cars in the past where the smell has been a lot worse, especially in my '79 Mustang. That was a real stinker, in more ways than one.
I can live with this issue. The truck runs great. I am getting aroung 17.3(my calculation) MPG doing about 75% city driving.
Knowing that the problem only occurs when I gun the engine can be useful. If someone is tailgating me, I can always gun the engine and let them have a whiff. Maybe that will back them off.

dumeel · March 2003

I am looking for a SR5 V6 4x2 4Runner with Appearance package in Phoenix, AZ. I am being told that this area (along with 6 surrounding states )does not get v6 SR5 with Appearance Pkg. Is this true? Is it the same case in other regions?

I tried Toyota.com website for 4Runner configuration and could not locate "Appearance Pkg" even after using different zip codes!!!

Thanks in advance
Dumeel

mrwhipple · March 2003

They are all over California. I have noticed the Toyota web site doesn't always come up accurately. It should be available.

rokink · March 2003

This smell has to do with sulphur content in gas additives that the refiners manipulate for various reasons. Dare I say the price of oil might be resulting in heightened prevalence of this smell? Maybe a petrochemist could enlighten us.

I notice it coming from my E320 since this Winter. It was not there last year.

fishingguy · March 2003

I had been getting quite concerned that Toyota had botch the ergonomics in my new 4runner 03 V8 4X4 (500 miles) since I just could not adjust the steering wheel and seat so that I could comfortably drive with my hand on top the wheel without stretching my arms too much. I figured I would just have to get used to extending my arms and having the steering wheel tightly in my lap. I still believed the car was simply perfect except for this one thing (and the sulfur smell when I mash the gas while the back window is open). Anyway, today I was looking down near the floor after I dropped a quarter in the Chik Fil A drive thru and low and behold there was a lever on the bottom of the steering wheel. I knew it was not the tilt since I found that the very first day of owning the vehicle. So I curiously and prayerfully pushed the lever downward. Like magic the steering wheel telescoped towards me about 4". I thanked the Lord, got out and did a little jig around the vehicle... It had suddenly become "the perfect vehicle." FWIW, I kinda like the sulfur smell. But I always used to like the smell of dead skunks when I used to live in MI. -- True story.

beercoll1 · March 2003

Sounds like your car salesman did not do a good job of going over the features of the vehicle when you picked it up.

superleggera · March 2003

I have the double decker cargo system on my 03 V6 4x4 SE. I puchased the Husky floor mats and love them. Husky has now released the liner for the cargo area in the back. They say that it only works when the shelf is in the down position. Has anyone seen this yet? Any thoughts/comments?

asdf · March 2003

Hi,

I am looking for a grill guard for my 03 4runner, preferably something like safari bar. My dealer told me that it could be mid summer for Toyota to release something like that on 03 model. Does anyone know where I can find an after market one?

I need it badly. Thank you for any input.

superleggera · March 2003

I'm not sure what they have specifically for the 03, but you might want to try Sporto Motoring (http://www.sportomotoring.com/). I've ordered my Husky floor mats from them and they were very helpful finding the products that were just right for my 4Runner. Show us what you end up getting for your truck!

tfuzz · March 2003

I received my Husky liners last week. The rear liner for use with the cargo shelf down works great--it is just what I wanted to carry my dogs in the back. Personally, I would just as soon take the shelf out permanently, but since it apparently doesn't come out easily the Husky mat is a good alternative. I also got the Husky liner for the rear seat, which also covers the hump. Both fit well and are of high quality. I went with Toyota all-weather mats for the front.

lynleyt · March 2003

I don't know why many of you are complaining about Toyota's new anti-carjack system. You must be activating it by mistake. The powerful odor is better than pepper spray for dealing with a carjacker...

I do have the sulphur odor problem. I live in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC. It most often occurs after acceleration followed by slowing down or stopping. (I have experienced it with a 5.7 V8 Suburban and only once in 3 years with an Audi A6 V8.) Given that it happens on acceleration, it seems the engine must be running over rich (at least richer than the emissions system can handle). The 4.7 is in so many vehicles, Toyota should be able to fix this. Denying that the problem exists rarely contributes to a solution.

steffen06 · March 2003

I have almost 3000 miles on my 03 4runner limited V6 and have not experienced the rotten egg smell. So far I haven't had any problems with this vehicle, average mpg based on actual fillup and mileage (not the on board computer) is about 19 for mixed highway city driving. The only problems I've noticed so far is that the cladding on the driver's side door is starting to detach and that the rear wiper takes a few passes to clean the window - I think that the tension on the spring that holds the arm against the window is too light. We have a 01 Highlander and the tension on the spring for the rear wiper arm on it is much stronger than on the 4Runner. I haven't had the "squeaking seat" problem that others have noted. I purchased the all-weather mats - they really work nice for keeping junk off the carpet

reddfish · March 2003

I have read all the posts and comments on the sulfur/ rotten egg smell in the 4 runners and I have a request. I would like everyone that has experienced this problem to post it. Please put the vehicle type (Lmtd., sport, or SR5), and the type engine ( V8 or V6 ). The only other info I am requesting is the state that you live in. I will be printing this information to take to my lemon law arbitration hearing. I have exhausted all other avenues to resolve this problem to no avail. Thanks in advance. I will keep this forum advised on any developments with this situation.

mabucfan · March 2003

I've been on another discussion board (which I know some of you also cross over to), I am seeing some negative feedback on the JBL audio option package for the 03 4Runner. I am moving toward a price quote this weekend on the 4Runner, and don't want to bother with the JBL package if not worth the upgrade.

asdf · March 2003

I just got a call letting me know that Toyota has just given out a very good finance (2.9% APR?) on new 4runner. Any confirmation?

lynleyt · March 2003

I have a V8 Ltd with the JBL audio. I don't think is a very good system. You would be better off saving the money and investing in a good aftermarket system.

You may not have a choice, I didn't see a Ltd (MD area) without a stereo or NAV upgrade.

leodogs · March 2003

Reddfish: I was one of the first (Jan.18) to report the smell on this forum...V8 Ltd. - now with over 4,000 miles and no improvement. I've used every gas that's sold in CT. I'm getting sick of reading comments like it only happens when you "floor it". The smell starts when I accelerate and gets worse when climbing hills. Unfortunately, I live on a very steep hill so I get the smell constantly.(I always wonder how those guys in their 4Runners on Mt. Everest survived.) In addition, I'd like to hear what other people experience when they drive with their back windows and tailgate window down. I've written about this before, but haven't gotten much response. I believe Toyota (when comparing with my '96 runner) overlooked the way either the rear spoiler or simply the aerodynamics of the '03 contribute to sucking exhaust or even water on the pavement back into (or through) the rear window. It never happened with my '96. Do I love everything else about this vehicle? You bet! But, if someone out there would offer me a straight trade, right now for a "new" '02 - I'd take it in a heartbeat. I (and my dogs) want a car I can drive with the windows down - it's that simple.

gimpjomama · March 2003

Hey folks. I am considering purchasing a 4Runner Sport and wanted to know what kind of options were available in the Northern NJ (I'm in Teaneck) area. I wanted the 6 CD changer and alarm, but was told that Toyota is not making 4Runners with them. I'm assuming the same goes for side airbags - I forgot to ask.

Finally, how much did you guys pay over invoice? So far, with sunroof (?), spoiler, day running lights, running boards, cargo mats, double decker cargo system, and sport package, the offer is $32,550 (un-negotiated). I think that this is about $2000 over invoice. How low can I talk them down? BTW, with those listed options, Cardirect quotes $30,363.

Thanks in advance for the input. I really would love to get this truck tomorrow

andrews928 · March 2003

Leodogs, we are both in CT, I picked up my Limited V8 in January and have no sulfer smell. Also some long hills to drive to my home. This is confusing. Do you have the smell with all the windows rolled up? I'm going to roll down some windows and see what happens.

JBL Upgrade, If I could, I would not spend the extra money, but I never heard of a Limited without it.

reddfish · March 2003

Thanks for your input. It's the same for me in flat Florida, with the windows up or down. I never had a problem with my 91 runner either.

vaughn4 · March 2003

Has anyone else noticed that the A/C system on the new 4Runner does not seem to cool all that well? I live in Florida and have been running the A/C, since temps have been in the mid 80's. I have it set on "LO" Auto and in the recirculate mode. The thermostat seems to cut the compressor off too many times; therefore, not letting the cabin get nice and cool. Sometimes it just feels stuffy until the compressor kicks back on then as soon as it gets nice and comfortable it kicks off again. If I have it on the highest setting shouldn't it be ice cold? Any thoughts?

By the way the truck still stinks when under heavy acceleration or going up small hills, overpasses, bridges, etc... It's so embarrassing!!! People comment: "Nice truck, but horrid smell."

reddfish · March 2003

vaughn4, on our a/c we just push the auto and the computer decides whether or not to use recir. or fresh air mode. The computer also selects the fan speed. Our a/c will run until the cabin reaches the selected temperature.

dust90 · March 2003

Vaughn4, It doesn't sound to me like it is working properly. Try setting the temp to something that is comfortable, like 70 deg, with Auto selected. If it doesn't blow cold until the interior is comfy, then go see a dealer.

As to the exhaust smell - that has been around since the advent of the cat converter. On some vehicles it tends to go away or diminish after a few thousand miles and it is somewhat dependand on fuel type(BMW had to make some changes to thier 4.0 V8 a few years ago, because the high sulphur content of US fuel was eroding cylinder walls - gave a BUNCH of people new engines). Yesterday, I was following a new Impala up a slight hill & guess what, sulphur smell from his exhaust! Station wagon types (SUV's)have always pulled exhaust fumes in thru the back window when down - it is jusp simple aerodynamics. Look in ANY SW/SUV owners manual & it will tell you not to drive with the back window open. Todays vehicles are designed to be driven with the windows up, at least at highway speeds. That is why we are blessed/cursed with the fancy HVAC systems. If you want open air feelings at highway speed - buy a convertible.

Toyota 4Runner

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