Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
50 Worst Cars of All Time
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
The GM senior compacts could've been badge-engineered variations of the Corvair. The Olds and Buick versions were rather non-descript. The Olds version was to be called the "66." The Buick version was unnamed. Of all of them, the Pontiac Polaris was the coolest:
Upon taking delivery of the '67 Country Sedan (Galaxie) I R&R'd the aluminum chincy grille with the chrome grill from a Country Squire. Sure improved the looks.
For $100 a mechanic R&R'd the 2 bbl manifold & carb with a 4 bbl manifold & carb from a used 352. Hiway mileage improved by 3 mpg, but when needed - the passing gear was a lot more effective going up the Pass to ski.
Somewhere around 65 it had what they figured was a fatal repair estimate.
Andre - what the latest on the DeSoto?
Well, it ain't gonna be ready by my 40th birthday as I had originally hoped for. Unless the mechanic can slap it all back together by tomorrow! He hasn't really found anything catastrophic, although he got a little melodramatic when he found sludge in the engine. Hell, I TOLD him it had sludge in the engine...on an old Mopar you actually WANT a little sludge...that's what keeps them from leaking!
It'll probably be roadworthy sometime in the summer, but probably not in time for the Mopar Nationals at Carlisle, which is in July. So I'm hoping it'll be ready by my 41st birthday, and then I'll take it to the Mopar Nats in 2011!
Oh, and I finally got that supposedly NOS 1957 DeSoto fender from him. Last Friday, he called me at work and told me to come get it, as he'd brought it in to work. Unfortunately, I was driving the Park Ave and not about to strap that fender to the roof! So, he said he'd drop it by on the way home that evening. Only problem is, I was going to be away all weekend, so he said he'd leave it. So I come home on a rainy Sunday, and find this 1957 DeSoto fender sitting end-up on my deck! I thought that was a bit ironic, that this thing had probably been stored indoors most of its life, only to be set out in the rain. Not a good fate for any 1957 Mopar part!
The fender is in good shape, but I don't think it's NOS. For one thing, it's gray...looks to me like it just came off of a gray car. Plus, it has minor scratches on it. But no dents, and more importantly, no rust. The downside is that it's a 2-headlight setup rather than a 4-headlight. The fender is designed for 2 or 4, but the inner part of the bezel is different, and unfortunately, welded to the fender rather than bolted. So I'm sure that'll cost a few bucks when I decide to replace the fender. And it also must have come off of the cheapest 1957 Firedome available, as there are no holes for the 2-toning, or the chrome accent on top of the fender. But anyway, I don't think I'm going to be painting the car anytime soon.
Oh, as for your parents' '57 Custom Suburan, my old car book is a bit vague. It lists the 6-cyl as being standard in everything but the Belvedere convertible and Fury. But then for V-8's, it only lists the 301-4bbl, with 235 hp, as being optional in "all except Fury". The other two V-8's, a 197 hp 277-2bbl and a 215 hp 301-2bbl, are listed as being offered in the Plaza, Savoy, Belvedere as appropriate, but none of them specifically mention the wagons (which would have been Suburban for the cheap one, Custom Suburban for the top level, and I can't remember if there was one in between)
So going from that, my guess would be that it had the 301-4bbl. A Custom Suburban was pretty expensive, so I'd imagine they were more likely to have the big engine.
Yeah, but that '60 Lark could be had as a convertible, two-door hardtop, 4-door wagon, or a V8--try getting any of those in a Big Three or Rambler '60 compact. Plus, the Lark was bigger inside than any of the others, since it was in effect a downsized full-size Studebaker...sort of what GM did fifteen or more years later!
Bill
They were a great tow vehicle as well. A Lark hardtop could pull a loaded horse trailer across a level soundstage floor with ease, as witnessed on "Mister Ed". :P
They were sturdy enough beasts but rust buckets. I don't think I ever saw one other than a restoration that wasn't pretty rusted up. Even when I was looking in the 70s. By comparison I looked at a 59 Edsel back then with no rust at all in 1977.
Oh yeah, now and then another automaker would have a brief flash of brilliance, but pound for pound, year after year, GM beat them senseless when it came to the vitality of the styling IMO.
They made a few TURKEYS but not too many. Even their turkeys looked good. :P
Chevy did a smack down on Ford in 1928 or so and never looked back for some 60 years I guess.
Pontiac's Bonneville Brougham was also a pretty ritzy ride. I don't recall any really direct equivalent to it in Dodge's lineup. Dodge's Custom 880 was pretty nice, and once the Monaco went full-lineup it was nice too, but I wouldn't put either one in the same league as a Bonneville Brougham.
For 1971, the Grand Ville debuted, kinda negating any need for a Bonneville Brougham. Oddly, for '71 and '72 only, there was a (separate series) Catalina Brougham (two-door hardtop, four-door sedan and hardtop). Four full-size series those two years, perhaps a bit much, eh?
Bill
It is certainly true that the front-fender rust was all-too-evident after a few years in the northern winters. NOS front fenders were plentiful and cheap for them (still are for '64 and later) and often the fender rust, although looked bad, didn't mean that the rest of the car was a total rustbucket.
Bill
You know, I definitely have to agree with you on this. GM's styling always led the way when I was growing up (born '58). GM's styling VP, Bill Mitchell, grew up in my little hometown of Greenville, PA.
I think the '65 full-size Chevrolets and Pontiacs were just out-of-this-world, styling-wise.
I always thought that in the first-impression things, too, GM outshined the competition...the way the doors closed, the look of the instruments and door armrests and door lock buttons...the way the vent windows operated by crank on the full-size cars...all these things spoke 'quality' to me, even if only in impression.
Bill
Granted, GM had the lions share of design and build quality sewn up. But, even the Fords of the day, fastback Torinos, Mustangs, even Cougars (which always looked European to me) in the '60s caught my eye all the time.
I can still remember my Father taking us on road trips in that big New Yorker, flooring it on the highway. That big hulk would kick down, squat, and then fly. My Mother would chastise him for those antics. He'd reply..."just gotta kick the soot out of it, clean the carb."
I never knew what he meant by that until much later on. He was attempting to keep the carb clean of carbon by opening the latter two barrels of the 4 barrel carburator. There'd be a a big "whomp" sound coming from under the hood and we went from docile speeds to very illegal speeds (even as the speed limit was 70 MPH, then) in what seemed like a flash. He'd hit 100 MPH on the speedo, hold it for about a mile or two, and then back off, satisfied that the carbon build up was gone.
Sitting in the back seat (which was like a big couch) with my two sisters, I took great delight in watching the speedo hit 100. Amazing, even today. A car that weighed well in excess of 4,000 lbs, with bias ply tires, cruising at 100 MPH....in as much comfort as you could possibly want.
"CHEAP TO FIX" -- I meant that as a two-way compliment: they are cheap to fix and you often have to. Which is the next best thing to "expensive to fix and you never have to". The best one of course, is "cheap to fix and you never have to". :P
Chevy - 59 (can't help myself baby!)
Pontiac - 59
Olds - 59
Buick - 60
Caddy - 59 (it's so over the top!)
Favorite models - convertibles and the flat top (wrap around glass) 4 dr HT's, except preferred the 6 window 4 dr Buick and Caddy. I don't think the longer wheelbase carries the flat top off as well.
I know I'm probably a minority here. Might be from seeing them as a little kid when they were first introduced! (or maybe I'm just getting old and wacky?)
But I'll also admit the Bill Mitchell 61/62's were more classic in styling. I'd take a 61 Pontiac over any of them.
Yes! Exactly so. I'm still amazed that it only took two model years to exit the tailfin era.
I think 59/60 may have gone beyond evolutionary into a weird dream or something. Its interesting that neither outgoing Harley Earl, nor incoming Bill Mitchell took credit for those beasts. Of course, Ford only outsold the 59 Chevy because it was too extreme for many buyers. The 59 Ford wasn't really a looker. It had a boxy front end, too thick of a greenhouse on the sedans and a bit strange rear end. The 59 Plymouth was maybe the best of the truncated finned 59 Mopars, although there were mixed feelings about its fake wheel embossed into the trunk lid. The 60 just odd, but unfortunately would become the good looking one when its 61 sister came out.
Auto styling is also a cultural phenomenon as you know. By 1960, jets were common in the skies, and the media had been pretty relentless in making fun of styling excess.
1955-57 -- Coming into the Modern Age
1958-59 -- A Brief Descent into Madness
1960-63 -- Age of Reconstruction & Experimentation
1964-1971 -- 2nd Golden Age (1st being early to mid 30s)
1972--1985 -- Loss of Faith/ Detroit in Retreat
1985-1995 -- Rocky V (or IV or VI)
1996--present Brave New World
I think I'd call it "Been There, Done That, Got the T-shirt". That's about the time retro started becoming the in-thing. Round headlights made a comeback with cars like the Neon and some Benz models. The Dodge Ram went for a retro look that combined the 50's with a bit of big-rig thrown in, and suddenly became a serious contender for Chevy and Ford for what was probably the first time in history. The New Beetle came out. Then cars started getting taller, shorter, and boxier, like how they were in the late 40's/early 50's. Then we got the likes of the PT Cruiser, HHR, SSR, the retro Mustang, and a dusting off of old names like "Charger", "Impala", "300C", the rebirth of the Challenger, and then the Camaro.
I think the cars are advancing very quickly when it comes to the technology involved, complexity, reliability, etc. But style-wise, it's pretty much been baby steps ever since the mid 80's. And in many cases, it's been a step back.
I couldn't agree more. It amazes me whey an entire lineup of cars get restyled, with one, two, or more turning from swans to dogs...here are my grades for several brands recent restyles:
Audi A-, like the new ones, except those LEDs in the headlights I'm not sure about
BMW A-, get 'most improved', but the new 5 and 7 aren't very distinctive
Ford A, they're on a roll
GM B, mixed bag bad (GMC Terraine) with the good (Chevy Malibu)
Honda D, from mediocre (Accord) to poor (CRV, Crosstour)
Acura F, not a good looker among them, they inherit the 'what were they thinking' award from BMW
Toyota C, some OK (Camry), some not so hot (new SUVs)
Lexus C, would have been better before the HS
Edit - I almost left off two of my favorites:
Hyundai B, OK overall but I'm no fan of the new Sonata
Kia A+, some of their new ones near 'best in class' in terms of styling.
Comments?
It is true that it's hard for a truly lovely car to be a "worst car". As with lovely people, they can say the stupidest things and still be constantly forgiven.
Also interesting what you said about the 1st and 2nd Golden Age, how one was for the wealthy and the 2nd for the masses. That's quite correct. Maybe that's why we know so little of the faults of the wealthy persons' cars made back then. Their myth might be way better than their reality.
Japanese styling has always been also-ran, IMO. They are like the Microsoft of car design. The Italians are like Apple. Ferrari doesn't ask a focus group what they want---Ferrari *tells* you what you want.
German design is pretty good now. Audi really lit the spark for them in the mid 90s. The TT was a ground-breaker. Germans are very conservative designers. They have techno-pride, not so much beauty-pride.
But yeah, American cars aren't like....startlingly new or anything, but they have some vitality at least, once again. You can at least look forward to what might be next year's models. You don't have to cringe anymore. I give credit to Chrysler for that, goofy as some of their cars were these last ten years.
The Packards, Cads, Roadmasters, Lincolns were built of higher quality. Even into the 90's Lincoln's Wixom plant issued 33 Town Cars an hour while the Mark VIII's were given more detailed attention at the rate of 11 an hour.
In the last 15 years our Town Car has surpassed our T Bird in quality and lower frequency of repairs. Both have the same 4.6L V8 and other similar components, but the Linc is a better vehicle.
Wasn't there some kind of singularity theory which suggested that as technology speeds up and up, that one day we'll buy a computer at Best Buy, or a music player, or a video device, and by the time we get it home, they'll have a new model on the shelves with a completely new storage system and it won't read any of our data on our "new" one? :P