Toyota 4Runner

pat84 · April 2003

Thanks
I know you posted that before, for someone else. I was going to have the service department do it.

Kirstie_H · April 2003

Join us tonight, 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for Town Hall Trivia Night and member-to-member chat  come test your knowledge and chat with fellow members!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

See you there!

mackabee · April 2003

The "Apperance package" has been standard on the Japanese market since its introduction. Why they went with the ugly gray cladding is beyond me. Some marketing "wizard" at TMS USA made that decision. Any 4runners with the MAY order will be arriving with the reported changes (I have the memo from Dealer Daily) Only the SR5 with the gray cladding has the 500-1000 dealer cash on it. I wish TMS would have imported this vehicle just the way it appears in the Japan market (with the exception of the engines, they still use the 3.4l and 2.7l engines in the Japanese version!). We would have sold a lot more by now!
: )
Mackabee

mackabee · April 2003

Just go to www.toyota.co.jp and look for the Toyota Surf or Funrunner!
: )
Mackabee

jbhnc · April 2003

Hi,

  I have an 03 LTD V8 and live in North Carolina. I didn't notice the smell at all until a few months ago. Its defiantly there now, not overpowering but annoying. A couple of questions for those who know the world of gasoline...

  1) Does sulfur content change per season? I got my 'runner in Oct and didn't notice the smell until Jan/Feb. I haven't changed driving style or gas stations (frequent the same one)

  2) Doesn't sulfur (unburnt) harm the cat convertor over time?

  3) Has anyone received any concrete data from the different gas companies as to their allowable sulfur (in states other then Calif). Are some better then others?

  4) Anyone know if the law in NC requiring sulfur to be reduced by Jan 04 is still going to happen or did the petro lobby get it deferred?

  5) Anyone in Atlanta having the smell? I heard that they have reduced sulfur gas in Atl.

  Sorry for all the questions but hopefully this will help everyone with a stinky 'runner.

  Thanks - J

azrunner · April 2003

Personally, I was drawn to the looks of the new Sport 4Runner including the cladding. Since purchasing I have found that the cladding is useful in parking lots (prevents "dings") and off-road (helps with the "cat-claw")

My burning question is, how the heck do I care for the cladding?? What do I do to ensure that it lasts the life of this vehicle?? Any particular products known to clean and protect?

kb28 · April 2003

I wouldn't give up too quick on the 4-Runner; there is a lot of junk out there. If you are serious about looking, though, you may want to take a look at the Land Rover Discovery. I have a 2001 DII SE7 with almost 30K miles and it has never been in the shop for repairs. The thing is built like a rock and the sales people are very knowledgeable and polite. They do not play sales games and are up front about any sales discounts, usually 1 to 1.5K below sticker.

My lease is about up and I've ordered a 4-Runner Sport. My only real "gripe" about the DII is the tires. With the ACE system, and on all 2003 SE and HSE models, they come with 18" LOW profile tires only; there is NO option. I do a lot of off roading in the summer and, believe me, rock crawling is no place for low profile tires. There are also a lot of highway complaints that potholes blow the tire out because they pinch so easily. I have communicated with Land Rover about the tires and their reasoning is that most owners do not go off road and the low profile tires are better suited for the highway. Fine; but what about those of us who do go off road? It seems kind of silly to build such a highly capable off road vehicle and then fit it with an unsuitable tire. Kind of like putting ballerina slippers on Hulk Hogan. The only solution is to buy 16" rims ($1500) for which you can get suitable tires, there being no decent off road tires in the 18" low profile size; just ask Michelin, Firestone, Perelli, etc. I did.

The other reason I'm switching is that ever since Ford bought Land Rover, the focus seem to be moving toward building better soccer mom transportation rather than continuing the Land Rover heritage of being one of the best, if not the best, in off road capability. The flagship Range Rover went unibody this year, as well as made other changes such as rack and pinion steering, and Discovery, I'm told, will soon follow. Toyota, on the other hand, is not only maintaining 4-Runner off road capability, but is improving it (more rigid LADDER frame construction, locking center differential, a 17" tire that is off road worthy, etc.) It also seems to me that Toyota takes customer complaints seriously and acts quickly to rectify them (appearance package made standard). Land Rover, on the other hand, had done nothing about the low profile tire complaints (see LR posts) stating only that it is a marketing decision. In fact, when I told my dealer that I was considering buying 16" rims, they told me it could void the warranty and that they would not mount them. Reasoning was that the ACE system (similar purpose to x-res on Toyota)has been tested with the 18" low profile tires only and any other tire is considered not suitable. By the way, for the moment, the base SD still comes with 16" rims.

Well, that's my 2 cents. For the moment I'm hoping the Sport I ordered does not come equipped with the odor--it does seem to be a regional gas related problem that is short lived--as when off road, I like to smell the roses, not smelly exhaust fumes.

bmw323is · April 2003

I can't beleive Toyota would make running boards standard equipment (even though they can be removed, that would seem to be a waste). I guess I don't understand how they help. They are far too narrow and close to the body for me to get my foot on, especially getting out of the vehicle. So I just get my pants leg full of dirt by rubbing on them. What am I missing? Also, if the 4Runner is really supposed to be an off-road vehicle, running boards reduce clearance, don't they?

Like Jaredmsd, I too want a V-6 4X4 Sport with no options. I suspect I will have to special order it. Should I wait until June to get the reduced pricing or will I get that price if I order at April 30 for a July delivery.

By the way, great interaction on this board with excellent information. Thanks.

rorr · April 2003

One reason (and I'm only theorizing now) that you may have been warned away from a smaller diameter wheel on your Discovery may be due to clearance issues with your brake rotors/calipers.

jaredmsd · April 2003

First to kb28, just one point I wanted to make to you, is that the
design for the newest Range Rover was already in place before Ford
bought it, because it would have cost them even more to start the design
process over again and the new Range Rover would have been delayed many
years. So thank BMW for their decisions on the unibody design. Why do
you think there are so many BMW parts in the new Range Rover (the engine
for one)? Because, as I said, it would have cost Ford a fortune to
change the design, so they just left a lot of it in. Not really an
important point, I just thought the same, that Ford ruined it, only to
learn later that it was BMW.

bmw323is:
Indeed running boards suck offroad, so they should NOT be standard on
the "Sport" model.
I'm glad someone shares my feelings about paying thousands for options
that aren't needed in what I consider a fairly 'fully loaded' truck with
its standard equipment. I didn't even get floor mats because I knew I
was going to replace them with weathertech's.
Considering your thought about the pricing and ordering date:
I ordered my truck through Carson Toyota in Carson, Ca through the
suggestion of a few dealers on here when asked about build orders. My
deal was a certain amount
over invoice (in my case $1000) at delivery time. So, even though I was
quoted invoice at the time, I was told that if pricing changed, my
deal changed (which now is a good thing), so maybe you could assume
the same would happen with you.
One reason why you wouldn't want to wait until June to order is
that I think build ordering stops on the '03 models by then. I think I was
told that they will take '04 build orders in June or July, but of course
those vehicles wouldn't be delivered until much later. In fact, when I
ordered in Feb. I think I was told that the May timeframe was the latest
that they will make build orders on '03's.

Hope that helped.
-Jared

cinlin · April 2003

I need someone to tell me about this "Brake in Contract" in order to honor warranty and how much is it and is it negotiable? I have agreed on a purchase price on line to a 4 Runner LMTD. v6 4x4 and stated that that I don't want to see any added charges. What is a "Document Fee" I think it sounds like BS to me. I plan on telling them that also when The vehicle arrives @ the dealership. (It was a trade because of color).
I purchased the Consumers report new car report and found out exactly what the LMTD is or should be worth. As it is I am paying more on top of that is the dealer hold back for $714.00..I don't feel there should be any hidden fees. It should be loaded and no extra add-on correct? Some one please give me feedback so I can feel better about this.
I would love to hear some stories.

Also the color is Stratosphere Mica... So if they don't make paint, who is going to match that color?

aleksd1 · April 2003

Does anyone know if it's possible to get SR5 with side airbags in CA? I talked to several dealers in So Cal and they all tell me that CA does not get SR5s with side airbags. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

vodgut · April 2003

Doc fees are pretty common. I believe Edmunds has an article somewhere about them. It really depends on what they are, as to whether they're reasonable or not. I think the claim in the article on here was that $50 was reasonable, $250 was not.

Doc fees vary by dealer, and tend to be non-negotiable themselves (although you might have better luck negotating a price INCLUDING doc fee, then comparing between dealers). Most of the ones around here charge $250-$300. Unfortunately, if you've already negotiated a price - it may be hard to do anything about the doc fee, depending on what you've signed and what agreement you have in place already. This should have been discussed before a price was agreed upon.

I ended up going through carsdirect.com, and their dealer partner here in the Denver area happened to charge NO doc fee, which I thought was pretty cool. I paid for the vehicle and tax (and that's it) at the time of sale. Registration and Title are paid separately in Colorado.

If the doc fee is small, say, $100 or less, I probably wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise it depends on where you are in the process - you may have a hard time changing it.

chorton · April 2003

we call it CLERICAL fee though and it's 199.50 it seems pretty fair though b/c the ones around us charge 399. kind of helps us too, poeple always want the "out the door BOTTOM DOLLAR" so even if we are both selling at invoice...were 200 cheaper.
I guess my point is, just pay the little fee and enjoy the 4runner. Ya'll make this waaayyy more complicated then it needs to be.

stever · April 2003

But paying $200 to send a runner down to DMV with a few forms that a clerk has run off isn't a "little" fee in my book. Don't some states limit doc fees by law (Florida? - $40 or $50 bucks iirc).

High doc fees are just another profit center for the dealer.

Here's what edmunds.com says:

What You Should Pay:

"Reasonable documentation fee ($50 is reasonable; $250 is not)"

link

Steve, Host

joatmon · April 2003

Isn't it the dealers that gives you a price and then adds the "doc" fees? Gee, why wouldn't the dealer just say, "This SR5 with vin # _____ is $30000, tax is $1800, tag is $25, so the total is, uummm, $31825"? FWIW, I find getting a vehicle price or service price at my local Toyota dealers to be a nightmare. I'm in the South, so maybe I'm just dumb or stupid. Yeah, that's it. Is me. The customer. I'm stupid.

chorton · April 2003

THATS how it would be. Unfortunately I dont make up the rules. So they call it DOC fee Clerical fee Whatever. It's not MY profit. I don't get paid on it. I consider it one of those things I CAN'T CHANGE. Ever hear of the serenity prayer?

In addition to that I have nothing to do with how your local Toyota Dealer operates. I'm sorry they are that way. Don't take their mistakes out on me. Here everyone that WANTS a price today gets one, And if it isn't agreeable, we don't expect people to do business here. We are doing somthing right though, we're the states volume leader!!!! You don't get there by having a "bad rep" or by Ticking people off frequently with no resolve.

joatmon · April 2003

Hey, I'll back off a little. But, you did say that the buyers made it complicated. I'd say that most buyers would like to get a price and not have any surprizes at the end. I'm just saying that the dealers that add "fees" after the "price" is negotiated probably don't do it because of customers demand. The consumer doesn't want this process to be as complicated at it sometimes is.

chorton · April 2003

Everyone would come to a dealer, Find the car they want, BUY it and go home. But since everyone wants to capitalize on every possible thing, the car buisness is what it is. Why not have all makes "sticker" price be THE price. You get what you pay for. if a Ford is 4000 less than a Toyota so be it...you get what you pay for. If you Know what the tax rate is and what the title fee is juat negotiate the TOTAL price and back it out enough to compensate the DOC fee.... I'm from the south and I figured that much out. LOL:)

delguy · April 2003

You have the exact 4Runner I want. It drives me nuts that there are so few v6 limiteds. Anyway, I can't help you much w/ the break in contract.

I can tell you that there is a disconnect between the CU/Edmunds price and what the dealer will call invoice. The difference being the advertising, holdback and fees. The real question is how much can you cut into this. My experience so far is "not too much". Just work your best deal and be happy that you got the truck you wanted. Now if I could just do the same.

BTW, if you're close to Deleware and pass on the truck, please let me know. BTW, the best price for your rig here w/o xreas or nav and sticker of 38.9 is 35.3. Are you getting a similar deal?

cinlin · April 2003

Thank you everyone for the opinions. I just wanted to know what to expect when I go to the dealer to actually see the SUV they traded for from another dealership. It was hard to discuss options when they don't have the SUV in possession. But the LMTD version has almost everything, so I figured I would take it from there in person, even though a down pay was giving it is like a good faith thing I guess. But nothing was signed. I did state to them no added fees or hidden fees just "said price", so if the Doc Fees are in there then fine, I meant just don't add in the $198.00 on top of said price.

cinlin · April 2003

I am getting lower than your 35.3 by a little more than a K. I am in MA. It is a large volume dealer that accepted not the smaller dealer near my house, but when I threw my offer out there I know the salesperson wanted to jump on it. Definately bargain up from 31,656.00 that is after the kickback which is $714.00...then add whatever extra options u want. Theres your baseprice, where it is a hot car I feel good about my price....good luck

joatmon · April 2003

Well, it's been said many times before, "If you want it simple, then there's a sticker on the window". I think there has to be someplace in between where both sides can negotiate a deal that's beneficial to both parties in a short amount of time. Trick is, both sides need to respect one another, not play games, and leave the negotiations with both sides understanding and agreeing with the terms.

Hey, I'm outta here. Have a great Easter weekend for those of that persuation. God bless America and protect the troops.

rockyball · April 2003

I've got a friend that has 2003 LTD V-6. She is having quite a problem with engine belt noises. It started 2 weeks after purchase and has had all belts replaced and I think a couple of the engine pulleys. Factory rep says that they are having this problem with the V-6 and temporary fix is to put talcum powder on the belts until they figure out what the permanent solution is. Anyobe else had this problem?

claddingsuxs · April 2003

Seriosly? 1st toyota i ever bought and i never had such buyers remorse. Its obvious they are aware they screwed up on the cladding so dont you think that the existing people are PISSED? I will never buy a toyota again if nothing is done for the people who actually helped them buy buying the cladded ones. I dont care how good of a truck it is.....you slap me in the face expect me to slap you back.

dust90 · April 2003

A guy showed up at my office today driving an 03 4Runner, SR5, Silver with the appearance package. It had the black roof rack & black running boards and really looked sharp. What I was surprised to find that he also had the 17" wheels that come standard on the limited. If I had seen this Silver SR5 w/app pkg when I was looking, I probably would have bought it. I really liked the Silver, but on the Limited(then the only way not to get the ugly cladding) the roof rack & running boards were silver & it was just too much silver. However, I love my Limited. It does everything that I want from a vehicle & does it exceptionally well, so I really have no regrets and ZERO complaints.

bmw323is · April 2003

I have a chance to buy a Galactic Gray SR5 4Runner at under invoice (because of the price rebate on the cladding). I need some opinions. I really wanted silver or white so the dirt doesn't show. I own a black BMW now and I'm worn out with washing it. The gray cladding doesn't look bad with the gray color, but I'm concerned with how difficult it will be to keep looking clean. Is it better than black, or just as bad? I know it looks nice clean, but how about when it's dirty?

Jared, I asked the dealer about a Sport with no options and a V6. Said I would definately have to order it. Instead he found an SR5 with only about $350 of options (besides the wheels) and I can deal with that. Thanks for your advice, but perhaps I won't have to order one after all.

morry · April 2003

OK Guys, I finally picked up my new black 4Runner Limited . I am so excited. I got it last night and still can't believe it. After playing in it all day, so far I have only three questions.

The reverse lights are not very bright. Is there a brighter bulb and if so, where do I get them?

Has anyone tried to put the junior size kleenex box in the holder in the center console? It doesn't quite fit. What size works?

Is the little radiator in front of the main one the transmission cooler?

I'm sure there will be more questions as I drive it more. In the meantime, thanks for everybodys help.

Morry

john_dode · April 2003

Rocky, I was under the impression that the new V6 uses chains instead of belts. You sure she's having problems with belts?

JD

whitney8 · April 2003

As a previous black car owner, I know how hard it is to keep it clean. I now have a Galactic Gray Sport. I can confirm that it does a good job of hiding the dirt. And yes it does go well with the cladding.

pat84 · April 2003

Black is the worst color for showing dirt, followed closely by white. I am sticking to gray and silver from now on, as requiring the least amount of washing.
I took my Titanium Silver with splendid gray cladding in for an oil change yesterday. I noticed that the Service Dept. did not use the "tweety bird" door open / close sound to locate vehicles for service. They hit the panic button for a few healthy beeps. Not the tweet tweet.
Also I pointed out that the receiver is not 2 ", but something smaller. The parts guy ordered me a new receiver. There was a parts notice he showed me.
My 4Runner was up on the rack a good 1/2 hour. I have the V-8, and someone posted that getting the filter off was time consuming. I saw this first hand yesterday.

rockyball · April 2003

I'm speaking of the belts in the front of engine like power steering, etc, not internal engine.

vodgut · April 2003

When the salesperson demonstrated my V8 LTD when I picked it up, the little radiator in front of the main one was indeed pointed out to me as the transmission cooler. Dunno if the V6 has one with the 4speed, and you didn't say which engine/transmission you have.

I wonder if the reverse lights not being/looking bright is because of the tinted windows. Did you actually look at them from outside the vehicle? I've noticed at night that the tinting on the privacy glass is fairly dark.

The tow hitch isn't exactly 2 inches? Is that because of the other problem noted, that there were some metal spurs inside it? I hope that wouldn't thwart my plan to get a Colorado Avalanche hitch plug....

delguy · April 2003

Did you get the JBL stereo upgrade? Either way, sounds like you got a great deal. Out of curiousity, what's the name of your dealership?

thanks

2walker · April 2003

My 2003 V6 belt noises have been traced to a defective fan belt tensioner... parts on order, so we'll wait to see if that fixes the problem.

pat84 · April 2003

I can not get a 2" hitch into my 4 runner receiver. It is more like 1 15/16 " than 2 ". I am supposed get a replacement receiver from Toyota soon at no charge that is supposed to be 2". You may want to measure your receiver.

chorton · April 2003

what style wheels to get???

stever · April 2003

My cable went down for ~2 hours and I couldn't get to the spam before now.

Steve, Host

kzoo1 · April 2003

Came home with my new 03 V8 LTD 2 days ago... I am very happy with this truck. Very smooth ride, esp. compared to my 98 Jeep Wrangler. Paid 1K over invoice but got 10yr/100K powertrain warranty from dealer at no add'l cost.

I know it was mentioned here before, but for those planning to buy/recently bought... check your tire pressure when you take delivery. I believe they overinflate the tires for shipping reasons. Mine were all 45+ PSI. Better ride after this was corrected.

Gotta go drive my new truck!

dust90 · April 2003

I have a Galactic Grey Limited & it can be really dirty & still looks good.

As to the kleenex box, I found the exact size at Wall Mart.

As to the hitch receiver for several posters, I just took a file to the inside of the receiver a little to knock out the burrs & smooth it up & it slides in & out now with no problems.

LOVE my 4Runner!

lynleyt · April 2003

Someone a few posts back had a question about the rear seat audio. I have it on the '03 Ltd - thought it was standard with the JBL.

It works with wireless headphones that you purchase from the parts dept.

My kids love it. They can listen to CDs when I am listening to talk radio, news, traffic, etc.

carattorney · April 2003

I have a lot to say on this issue because this has been a MAJOR sticking point in me being able to get my new 4-runner SR5 v6 or many other trucks through the years.

I live in Phoenix, Arizona, the truck capital of the world. You either own a truck here or you face ridicule. It is so difficult to find trucks, especially Toyota in BLACK--my favorite color. I only buy BLACK.

All this business about BLACK being hard to maintain is rediculous! I can't figure out if this belief is something that people learn at a young age passed down from indoctinated parents or what? Where does this idea come from. My BLACK trucks get washed every 3-4 weeks, are driven everyday and look great and sparkle like only BLACK can. People that have other color trucks complement mine and want to know what I put on it to make it shine. ANSWER: NOTHING--Black shines--it is the best looking color!

Another weird concept prevelant in Arizona is that you should not buy a BLACK vehicle b/c it is too hot! Again, where do people get this from?? Can someone educate me please.

I am contemplating going to California to get a BLACK 4-runner soon b/c Toyota ships so few BLACKS to Arizona and many to California. Guess what: BLACK is very popular in Califonia and the first to sell. Imagine that. Amazing folks!

More insanity: I call the Toyota Dealer in Palm Springs California--(for those not familiar--a VERY hot desert city--same as Phoenix--110 to 115 all summer). I tell Fleet that I am from Phoenix just 250 miles away and I can't find BLACK--do you have BLACK? Gentlemen states: Sure, whatever model you want--part of their regular allotment.

I wonder if all those California BLACK 4-runner buyers realize that if they drive their Truck to ARIZONA--they will first get immediately dirty because it is BLACK and then burn up like a space shuttle re-entering the atmosphere?

jcat707 · April 2003

I read awhile back that if you don't get the JBL sound system, then you can get some sort of rear mirrors or something. Can someone explain this please.

chorton · April 2003

On the D-pillar there are STANDARD mirrors at the top corners angled so if you are backing out of a parking spot with cars on both sides you can see past them and tell if anything is coming. If you get the 10 speaker JBL Sylthesis Stereo, those mirrors are replaced with speakers.

yomols · April 2003

Noticed your post about buying a 4 runner in Denver. Who did you use and were you happy with the dealer overall? I just test drove a V6 SR5 at Elway and loved it.They had many trucks with the grey cladding. I'm hoping that with all the mid year changes Toyota has made maybe they will be really willing to deal on one. Since I will be taking the truck off road I kinda like the idea of the cladding. Would really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

bmw323is · April 2003

I too live in Denver. I have never seen a "doc fee" charged on the three new cars I've bought here. Although it could be something new. I also drove a 4runner at Elway this past week. I don't like their "no haggle" pricing. However, there is now a rebate on the gray cladded V6 models - they told me $750, but I think it may be $1,000. Since I'll do some 4 wheeling, I also think the cladding is okay with me, and I'll take the $750-$1,000 off. "No haggle" or not, I'm planning on offering them substantially less than their asking price. We'll see what happens. They also add a $299 dealer handling fee. To me, that is part of their profit. Let us know how your negotiations go if you pursue it.

bmw323is · April 2003

I may be buying a new 4Runner and wanted to get feedback on the Weather Tech rubber mats for this vehicle. Anyone have them? Do they fit well in the 4Runner? How about the cargo mat? I once heard that they wear quickly - any truth to that? I've always had the carpeted mats, but I think with the new truck I'd like to try some good rubber ones. Also the option price of mats in the 4Runner is $261 - a bit steep.

dust90 · April 2003

I totally agree that black is the most beautiful color that you can get. However, if you live where it rains once or twice a week (as opposed to Phoenix), one drive on wet roads & black looks really YUCKY(better now Steve?)! Even dust and pollen show more on the black. A coworker of mine has a black Explorer and parks beside my Galactic Grey 4Runner mon-fri. We both usually wash our vehicles on the weekend and by Wed the black is looking much dirtier than the grey. BUT, if I lived in Phoenix, I might drive a black 4Runner, too!

stever · April 2003

Our van here in Boise is silver - it can go months (and often does) between washes and it still looks shiny from 10 feet away. Doesn't rain much here either.

Steve, Host

passthegravy · April 2003

I'm getting serious about buying an 03 4Runner. I'll be getting the SR5 model. The Limited style 17" wheels are available as an option, but I like the 17" wheels on the Sport model a lot better. Has anyone tried to convince a dealer to swap the Ltd wheels for the Sport wheels at the time of purchase? Seems like there might be a few Sport buyers out there that might like to have the Limited wheels instead.

Toyota 4Runner

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