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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid

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Comments

  • jeff_hjeff_h Member Posts: 20
    That's why I first drove the regular Fusion, I knew the ride would be very similar. But it was nice to drive the FFH too.

    For the person that has several FFH models on the lot in Dallas, there are probably 50-100 scattered throughout the DC metro area (just my ballpark figure based on scouring dealer inventories), so there are some out there but just not plentiful. And I also agree with that they are not flying off the lot the same day, my local dealer got two a couple weeks ago and they are still there.

    Over the years I kinda made a habit of taking road trips to find just the right car if I could not order it (not the case right now, plenty of time left in the build season but not for the tax credit since that reduces again after Sept) -- when I lived in Colorado I flew to Maryland to get one, when I lived in NC I flew up to NH to get one, I have fun with it since I like road trips and a road trip with a new car (the exact one that I wanted) is even better! So for those who have never tried that, if you can get away for a couple days you might like it and go sightseeing on your road trip back too. :)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Keep in mind that regular dealer allocations are skewed towards specific areas based on anticipated hybrid demands and other factors. So while one area like DC may have a lot in stock other areas (like South Dakota) may not have any.
  • jeff_hjeff_h Member Posts: 20
    I think that's true about the allocations, as a co-worker of mine's Dad has a Ford dealership in the western part of the state near WV. He had been told by Ford that "sorry, no allocations for you because you are too small of a dealer". And that also stands to reason why the dealer in the west side of Richmond VA (the more well-to-do side) had 16 on the lot at one time, I guess they are a high-volume dealer in an area that would have more buyers at a given time.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    In the past those allocations would have affected pre-sold customer orders as well. It's great that Ford allows customer orders to be built for any dealer without regard to that dealer's stock allocations.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I wonder if it also isn't about the technology involved and the small dealer may not even see more than a couple a year for repairs if he sees any and may not be able to fix them. It has always been my opinion the bigger the dealer the more chance he has of seeing the problem I'm having and is able to fix it right the first time.
  • hevintulsahevintulsa Member Posts: 1
    I got my FFH May 20. I ordered it March 30 in order to get in on the full tax credit.

    I live in Tulsa, OK and got the FFH through Joe Cooper Ford. Are there any other FFH owners in Tulsa on this list? I haven't seen another one on the streets of Tulsa yet.

    As of June 15 I am finishing my 3rd tank of gas at about 1,700 miles. I got about 37 mpg on the first 2 tanks with mostly highway driving, and at 40 mpg on 3rd tank with a mix of about 60% city, 40% highway. Looks like it will live up to EPA mpg ratings.

    I like the car. I had one of the first (MY2001) classic Prius and had a lifetime mpg of 45 before an uninsured yahoo in a dually pick up ran over me and totaled it about 2 years ago. The FFH powertrain concept is essentially the same as the Toyota approach, but the FFH has a slightly more aggressive electrical use algorithm and a more informative and useful instrument display, both of which I like. I also drive a pure EV (Solectria Force) so I am a big fan of the electric dive component. The more the better as far as I am concerned. I gave up waiting on the Volt or a production Prius plug-in, and decided that Ford has the best HEV product on the market at present.

    Are there any other FFH related discussion groups that any owners have found?
  • hoyafanhoyafan Member Posts: 48
    To answer the question about other groups, I've only found two sites.

    First, the Ford Fusion Forum, which has a dedicated FFH section:
    http://www.fordfusionforum.com/index.php?showforum=57

    Secondly, a pretty good blog: http://ffh.squarespace.com/
  • norman_1norman_1 Member Posts: 1
    Ford's sales of Escape/Mariner hybrid in May 09 was: 1,702/125.
    Fusion hybrid sales in May: 1,877.

    Camry hybrid sales in May: 2,941.
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    I turned over 4400 miles today. MPG for the long term (last 4300 miles) is 39.0 and 39.2 mpg for the last 2000 miles.The long term mpg has slowly increased from the start. The last 2k mpg fluctuates between 38.9 and 39.2, according who's driving the FFH. The 95F+ heat has decreased mpg a little.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Wait until it hits over 10K, and you should see it increase. That was the magic mark on the Prius and Camry Hybrids. I saw about a 2MPG increase after 10K miles, and now that the Camry is nearing 28K, I am getting consistently above 38MPG. The current tank is hovering around 40MPG. If I can get this in a Camry, imagine what I might get in a Fusion! :shades:
  • fusion_femalefusion_female Member Posts: 2
    My lease is up on my '06 Fusion and will be getting a new one. Just don't know if I should get a hybrid or not. Not sure I will truly save money. Your thoughts?
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    What kind of mileage do you get now, what type of driving and what do you want in the car. The Hybrid should be getting at least 40 MPG compared to the other models. In addition the packages offered for the Hybrid are pretty nice, and when compared option to option, the price is so close to the V6 Fusion, that it just makes good sense to get the hybrid. OTOH, if you have the base model and all you can afford is the base model, then by all means get the base model.

    For a comparison, I have an 09 Camry Hybrid. The power output of the hybrid with fully charged batteries is on par with the V6. For the most part the batteries are close to fully charged due to my daily trip of mostly 55 MPH. My MPG for the past few months has been 38+ MPG now that the weather has warmed up. For any other model Camry, the best I would see would be between 28-30 MPG for the type of driving.
  • hoyafanhoyafan Member Posts: 48
    Check out the reviews on Edmunds to see what customers who have a FFH think:

    http://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusionhybrid/2010/consumerreview.html
  • fusion_femalefusion_female Member Posts: 2
    I do mostly city driving.  Currently, I'm getting 27.6 mpg.  I read the reviews about what others are getting in the hybrid, but my concern is. . . when will I see that I've saved money by purchasing the hybrid?  Besides gas mileage, where else will I save?  I understand that oil change needs to be done at the same rate (or maybe I misunderstood it!), insurance should be a little cheaper.  I recently read an article that listed how long it took hybrid owners to break even with their hybrid.  They compared many hybrids, but one includes a 2009 Camry vs. 2009 Prius.  It will take 4.2 years to break even and that was the least number of years in all of the results.  Another question I have is when will the battery go bad?  Thanks for responding to my concern-this is the first time I've used a forum!
  • hoyafanhoyafan Member Posts: 48
    I would submit to you that the decision to buy a hybrid is usually based on other factors aside from economic payback. Most hybrid owners I've talked to wanted to: "do the right thing and/or help achieve energy independence". I think the most common sentiment is that they want to do their part...In other words, it wasn't only about the money. If you calculate only based on break-even, I don't think it will work out favorably, particularly if you compare to a 4 cylinder (cheaper) Fusion.

    With regard to the battery - I believe the warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles (except in California where it is even higher). I've also read that there are many Escape Hybrids in NYC and SF which have 300,000 miles on them and there has not been a single battery failure.

    Good luck with your decision.
  • Buy the cheaper ICE 4 cylinder. Buying a hybrid is really not about financial payout. It is getting new technology, using less fossil fuel, and getting some of the latest features (not to mention the best Fusion resale value). How does one figure in satisfaction with having bought a hybrid? I won't go on, but anyone who wishes to "break even" at some point by buying a hybrid is probably not a hybrid person.
  • rogerinvermontrogerinvermont Member Posts: 10
    If money is the only reason -- probably not. Others have stated well the reasons.

    Particularly if you want to lease, there is little financial reason to hybridize. Certainly not with a FFH. Maybe a Honda Insight -- much cheaper.

    Monetarily speaking, the $64 question is what the price of diesel fuel will be vis-a-vis gasoline. These new diesel engine cars get wonderful mileage, and with the new now sulphur fuel dont stink.

    The other questions you need to answer to get a better fiscal answer:

    highway vs city vs surburban driving. Hybrids shine city driving.

    length and depth of cold weather -- hybrids must run the engine to warm you and the batteries -- less saving in cold weather.

    I gotta tell you --- the FFH is a wonderful automobile with, for me, the right size.

    Let us know your decision.

    Rog in Vermont
  • rogerinvermontrogerinvermont Member Posts: 10
    More specifically, the warranty is 10 years/150K miles if you are in a california emissions state.

    And it is a full warranty; it is NOT prorated based on the life of the battery.

    As a purchaser of a new, expensive, high-tech automobile, I have the fear that something post-warranty will die and Ford will demand my children's birthright to fix it. The high-voltage battery is the least of the worries, because of the high-mileage warranty.

    The five california emission states are California, New York, Maine, Massachusetts, and Vermont.

    Rog in Vermont
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    My economic analysis indicated that it would take me 42 months to break even on buying at FFH vs a loaded I4 based on gas savings alone. I went ahead and bought one because I really like the technology. It is a very fun car to drive and it continuously amazes how often the engine turns on and off and how the power vs economy vs battery charging is managed by the computer. The enjoyment factor alone makes it worthwhile for me, plus the car can teach you how to drive it economically if you pay attention to the gauges. So I agree that it is not an economic decision, but one based on other factors as discussed above. Of course you never know what will happen to the price of gas, but it is still fun to go over 550 miles per tank. I'm averaging 34.2 mpg so far in the month since we got it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,252
    if you are leasing, you don't drive a lot of miles?
    FFH would be tough to justify in a normal leasing situation.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    I agree with the previous posts that it would be a long time before the FFH would pay for itself.

    If you didn't buy a FFH, but were looking at a 4 cylinder or V6 Fusion, then I would recommend the 4 cyl over the FFH and the FFH over the V6. Don't forget the tax credit, I believe $1,700, you get for buying a FFH.

    The FFH does well with city driving. Driving like "a little old lady" (how my wife describes my driving), I easily get 42+ mpg after the ICE is hot and the temperature is below 85F. I haven't had that mpg because half of my driving is at interstate speeds and recently temperatures are 95-100F. A non-hybrid car would get a similar, or worse mpg decrease in hot temperatures.
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    Has anyone kept track of their gas receipts and computed their mpg based on the gasoline purchased vs. the readout from the car?

    I have. At my last fillup, 4673.0 miles, I had bought and thus burned or evaporated 123.91 gals (37.7 mpg), but the readout on my long term dash mpg was 38.9. The difference being about 3.5 gals.

    I know there are measurement errors all around, but is this within the limits expected for the car's calculation or fuel pumps?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Did you reset the computer mpg when you filled up? You're only talking about a 3% difference. I think that's well within the margin of error for the pump or the computer.
  • WyattNicholsWyattNichols Member Posts: 55
    Did you reset the computer mpg when you filled up?

    No. I'm using the long term mpg since I picked up the car.

    I have checked the mpg for each of the 10 tanks of gas I've bought. As it should be, the average mpg for these 10 tanks of gas was basically the same as the total gals bought divided into the total miles.

    Yeah, I didn't think 3% off was all that bad, unless everybody else was getting a difference below the car's reported mpg. True measurement error should be distributed on both sides of the car's reported mpg.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    One of the factors involved with the trip computer is the speedometer calibration. I don't know how many others have noticed, the speedo is set a little higher than the actual speed, but the odometer is dead on. I couldnt tell you how many times I passed one of those speed signs that shows your MPH, and what is reported is roughly 3-5 MPH lower than the reading on the dash. To confirm I checked with the police departments of several towns and the county, the speed boards are all calibrated correctly, and it wasn't just my Camry, but all the cars I drive or have driven show the same thing. With the exception of my F350, the trip computers are actually accurate if you take into account the difference between the speedometer readout and the true MPH. This is why hand calculating is important to getting your true MPG of any car.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There is one of those on my drive home every day. It is exactly 1 mph lower than my speedometer (06 SEL V6 FWD). It says 40, my speedometer says 41 mph.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    From personal experience, the Prius and Camry Hybrid are incomparable, I have owned both. What I can tell you is I lost no money on the Prius, in fact made some money, but that was before everything came crashing down. The Camry Hybrid I have now is getting far better MPG than I could get with the I4 Camry. I am averaging above 38 MPG right now, and 35 MPG in the winter. On the highway if I drive it just right, I can see 50 MPG in it. The Prius I had, I got 65 MPG on the highway, by driving it just right. The resale value on the car will be higher than the I4 or V6, so the difference in cost for the hybrid technology IMO is a wash, much like in a diesel truck, you pay a premium up front for it, but in the end, that premium carries through in resale.

    In the Fusion Hybrid, in city driving, I bet I could see 45+ MPG in it easily, just from the fact I have driven hybrids for two years now and know how to manipulate the pedal just right, but that takes practice and a constant eye on the gauges.

    Personally, what it boils down to, is not cost, economics, being green etc. it comes down to personal preference, if you like it, buy it, who cares what it costs, what the so called "break even" point is, or how "good" it is for the environment. What matters most is if you like to drive it, is it comfortable to drive, is it fun, does it suit your needs, and do you feel safe driving it, these points are what matter most, everything else doesn't really matter.

    When I traded my Prius for a Hyundai Veracruz, I was at first happy to be driving the Veracruz, and still enjoy driving it, but after a while I missed driving the hybrid, I did not miss the Prius at all, it was unconformable to drive for me, and I did not feel it was a safe enough car for me and my family, but I did miss the technology. A few months later I got a great deal on a Camry Hybrid, and I like driving it, I like the car, and it has been 100% reliable for the past 27,000 miles, other than a few quality concerns, nothing actually wrong, just cheap materials that I feel are not up to the standards I expect from a Toyota Camry, there is not a single thing wrong with the car. I have no concerns over repair issues, and seeing that others have gone 300K without replacing the pack, I feel the car will last me a long time. Now had Ford had the Fusion Hybrid out last year, there is a very good possibility I would have one of those instead, since the Ford quality is much higher than the Toyota is now. If I were to sell it, based of current used car prices, especially if gas prices go up , I am fairly confident I could come out ahead, with cash in hand after paying off the car loan.
  • trucker49trucker49 Member Posts: 18
    If you're talking how soon before it becomes economically advantageous to buy a hybrid....since there is still a $1700 dollar tax credit on them and the initial cost is what $3000 dollars more aren't we talking only a $1300 dollar difference? I figured at an average price of $3 dollars a gallon, which I know we aren't quite to yet, but driving like I do I should expect to even out in about 2 years. Anyone that got the $3400 they where starting out to the good, no?

    One question, I know they say the regenerative braking has lower maintenance and last longer when you do need a brake job could a regular mechanic do it or would someone with special knowledge be needed?
  • It is just not that simple. The Fusion Hybrid generally goes out the door at closer to sticker than do other Fusion models. So the MSRP differences are actually larger than the window figures suggest. Now, you are apt to get the premium paid back on trade-in, but you weren't talking about resale, nor how many years of ownership you intend to have. Do you drive mostly city miles or do you do a lot of highway driving? The hybrid doesn't do all that much better mileage-wise on expressways than the 4 cylinder.

    Again, if you are trying to "even out," then maybe you are looking at the wrong car. Get a loaded I4 Fusion. For the price differential, you can buy a heck of a lot of gas.

    OTOH, you could drive them both back to back and buy the one that pleases you more for the money. That's what a lot of people do...as when comparing a 4 with a V6 model, or Chevy with a Buick..or a VW with Audi, or even a Yaris with a Smart, or what have you.
  • rrollrroll Member Posts: 5
    Who cares about the saving!!. The entertainment using and driving has already paid for the difference. 1 1/4 tank(s) around 700 mile mark. It is like playing a nitendo game. Can we get the efficiency to the maximum (omg look at all the cars that have to drive slowly behind me)? Let's see if I can get the voice control working on the 1st shot for the phone list or the 2,500 songs on the I-pod. Should I listen to Sirius, AM,FM, jukebox or maybe a DVD music score like Cher that we can watch at long traffic light or while waiting for someone. Maybe put the car in reverse to set the backup screen and then see how far we can drive forward with the screen still in reverse. Oh here's another one. Let's see if we can find something on the screen again, same screen that we found yesterday. There so many screens and toggle on the nav screen and another bunch on the LED on either side of the speedometer. Loaded a bunch of JPG pics into the system and now we need to decide what display on the left screen and what to display on the right side of the screen. GREAT car. As good as the 2006 Fushion SEL 6. Could not be happier. Just wish I had an 11 y/o to remember how to find screens. Oh well, I'll just keep rereading the manual and playing with all the buttons and menus. Rob in Montreal
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    LOL................ :):):)
  • rrollrroll Member Posts: 5
    I forgot to ask. I spent a while with my HTC Touch phone to get text messaging to work through the car. No dice. My wife's Motorola Razer works for incoming but not outgoing. Way cool. So here is the question. Does anyone know of of a touch phone that does SMS through bluetooth into the car SYNC and from the car SYNC using voice. Thx. Rob (info on syncmyride nor support are not able to help)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I forgot to ask. I spent a while with my HTC Touch phone to get text messaging to work through the car. No dice. My wife's Motorola Razer works for incoming but not outgoing. Way cool. So here is the question. Does anyone know of of a touch phone that does SMS through bluetooth into the car SYNC and from the car SYNC using voice. Thx. Rob (info on syncmyride nor support are not able to help)

    Who is your carrier?

    AT&T Motorola Razr V3 and Nokia 6102i can support text messaging, but the Sprint Motorola Razr cannot. Sprint blocks most of the bluetooth operations to prevent you from using your phone as a gateway. Most AT&T Nokia and Motorola phones seem to work.
  • trucker49trucker49 Member Posts: 18
    True you can buy a lot of gas for the price difference between a loaded I4 and a hybrid but as I was saying the difference is more like 13 hundred with the tax credit as opposed to the 3k sticker difference. I can also get the car A-plan which is 8% under invoice. It will be for my wife and she does mostly city driving except for a little expressway driving on the weekend. We won't take it on vacation as we always rent a large car for that.I do keep cars a long time. The Impala she has now is 9 years old so we tend to get our moneys worth out of them.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Have you verified with the dealer that they will sell you a FFH on A-plan?
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    My younger brother stepped up to the plate and today purchased his first American car. He ditched his Lexus for a Ford Fusion Hybrid. Said it was the right thing to do at this time. So now we are known as the Hybrid brothers. :)
  • hoyafanhoyafan Member Posts: 48
    No reason a dealer shouldn't accept A-plan. Given it is on open allocation, an A-plan order is just one additional vehicle they will sell. We didn't have any problem with the two dealers we talked to.

    For any that don't know: A-plan is employee (and immediate family) pricing.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Open allocation for customer orders is supposed to stop at the end of June. I agree there should be no problem ordering a FFH on A plan now (or X plan) now since it won't count against the dealer's normal allocation. However, if you're looking to buy one from inventory or order one after open allocation ends, then I'd be surprised if the dealer would accept A/X/Z plan on those due to limited allocation.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Today's Wall Street Journal article on cars selling at/near MSRP includes the FFH. Also, NY TImes has very positive review on its web site.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Links?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
  • rrollrroll Member Posts: 5
    The carrier is Rogers Canada. They are working on finding me something that mat work.
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    I bought mine on the A Plan, so they will do it. Some are more willing to do it than others, depending on demand, etc. Where the dealers will show their willingness is how much they are willing to give you for a trade-in and how much effort will be required on your part to close the deal. The dealer closest to me would only offer about $3,000 less for my car than the Edmunds recommended trade-in value and they never called me back after I left the showroom. The second dealer I contacted via the internet after verifying that they had an FFH equipped like I wanted on their lot. They called me indicating they were willing to deal. Their 1st offer was a little low, but when I made it clear that I was ready to buy today on my terms they accepted my offer. My advise is to go in prepared with an offer and a willingness to buy to see what they will do.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I didn't say it was impossible, just rare. Sounds like that dealer is a keeper!
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Two new ones just arrived at Darcar Lincoln Mercury in Temple Hill, MD. One of the Hybrids has an almost 2k internet discount so it is around 29.6k. I am surprised to see that.
  • jeff_hjeff_h Member Posts: 20
    There is a loaded FFH at Apple Ford in Columbia MD (zip 21045) internet special for $2,500 under MSRP, if you are MD it's worth checking out.
  • trucker49trucker49 Member Posts: 18
    It's according to the dealer whether they'd except A-plan. A buddy just bought a new Mustang GT, slightly refreshed in '10 over the '09 and the dealer wouldn't sell it to him A-plan. I mentioned it at my dealer and they busted out laughing...they were selling the hot redesigned Mustang @ A-plan when they first came out a few years ago....same with the Fusion Hybrid....I'm going to check out a Milan Hybrid tomorrow!
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    That internet special must have sold. I see one left $500 under MSRP. A buddy just purchased a regular Fusion now he wants the Hybrid. Is there such a thing as turning a car back in?
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    Just got back from the Ford dealer. They had a BBQ + Beatles tribute band day. They had a 2010 Fusion Sport which is the closest to the Hybrid package that they have in stock. As soon as a hybrid rolls off the truck its sold.

    Anyhow, I had the wife and kids with so she had a chance to check the car out and she loves it. Compared to the Camry, it made the Camry feel real cheap. More trunk space, more back seat space(legroom), and the seats fit like a glove. The leather material is soft and smooth, and they even have it on the door panels. The dash is much nicer than the Camry and doesn't have that glaring lighted center section. The only thing that was on the meh side were the climate controls, down at the bottom of the stack, and a little hard to see, but considering it is automatic climate control, you would rarely use them anyways. They have 2 hybrids due in soon, a Silver(What is with all the silver cars?), and a metallic gray. Both are maxed out at 32300.

    Silver, what is up with all the silver models? My prius, the only one they had, just off the truck, Silver. The Camry, only one in stock, Silver. 5 Ford dealers with Hybrids in stock, all Silver! :surprise:
  • hoyafanhoyafan Member Posts: 48
    Here's a neat website that allows you to look up your window label assuming you have your VIN:

    http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=3FAD- P0L3xAR1xxxxx (substitute your actual values for the xxxxx)

    If you've ordered your car, you can even see your name on the window label...
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