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MY FUTURE OLDER CAR?
I have digressed from my original inquiry( see 58-66 Thunderbirds ?) so I am starting a discussion about your average (income) middle aged man who pines for the style, substance and quality of an older automobile. I know I am not alone in this feeling of wanting a piece of the past and I am not so naive to think that everything old is good. That is why I would respectfully ask for comments from vintage car owners as well as people like myself. Both the 50's and 60's interest me equally. Review my Thunderbird discussion and please weigh in. I am not well versed in this method of communication so please forgive my clumsiness.
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Please answer as best you can:
1.What's your budget?
2. Do you want to go FAST?
3. How BIG can you stand them? As big as they come, or are there limits as to size?
4. Are you an introvert or an extrovert?
5. Are you content to drive a car everybody knows, or must you have a car that is very unique?
Wife:An ingredient in this equation not to be overlooked or underestimated. It will be our classic car not just mine, therefore I think we need to take the flat black chopped Merc off the table although the outlaw in me would love to own one.
Speed: Not really important, happy with 55 on the turnpike and something that drives smoother then a foot stool.
Size: Doesn't matter, thank God. I am more interested in style and imaginative design. I don't mind those big rolling living rooms. Probably not the late 50's big finned Cadillacs though.
Introvert/extrovert: Yes. I am quiet and conservative by nature but there is definitely a showman just below the surface.
Unique: Not necessarily. Most cars from this period, even the most modest would turn heads today. When car design moved from the boat to the box, cars lost their individuality. Paint them all silver and do you have a Mercedes or a Ford?
Bottom Line: My wife will approve a sensible, informed choice.( maybe even an illogical choice if I beg)
My knowledgeable host has suggested post 55' when power steering and brakes, and other amenities make driving pleasurable.
I like period color : pink, powder blue, pastel yellow and green bodies with white tops and the opposite.
I like well appointed chrome, 56' Crown Vic, Mercuries of this time period, articulated headlights and wrap around back windows, 59' Olds 88 Holiday,59'&60' Impalas, Edsel. 1959 seems like a great year for styling to my eye. The same models in 60' don't look as good to me. I don't mention Belairs since they are so expensive. I guess my heart "is" in the 50's but I do not want to ignore the 60's. Early Mustangs are iconic but their often cheap prices make me suspicious. I can appreciate the muscle car but I don't see it in my future unless I hit the lottery.
Convertibles: sure, I don't want to eliminate them. Summer is short in Maine and who wouldn't want to drive around with the top down. Tell me about well functioning models in the 60's and even 70's, those neglected diamonds in the rough.
Variables:I Understand Many ! I don't need numbers matching. I would like a worthy and reliable driver that won't bankrupt me but satisfy my desire for a piece of automotive sculpture and help to inform others like myself what are the strengths and weaknesses of the cars in this period. With rebuilt engines and transmissions I know all is speculative but give me your best general ideas. I appreciate and welcome all opinions. Thank you for your consideration.
in freeport
gotta go, i am going to browse though the inventory.
One of GM's best looking cars, lots of power, but not insane. Comfortable...
Anybody can repair it for you.....
Here's one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1967-PONTIAC-TEMPEST-SPORT-COUPE_W0- - QQitemZ190276680384QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars- - _Trucks?hash=item190276680384&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12- - %7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
A Ford Falcon Futura might be nice.
Actually a very handsome 4-door car you can buy for ridiculously few dollars is a 65-69 Corvair, if you want to get into the hobby real cheap.
50s cars are so CLUNKY though.
I do have a few 50s favorites though....like a black on black '58 Plymouth 2D. BAT CAR! (Also a notorious rust bucket, sad to say).
I always thought a Valiant station wagon would be pretty cool to own. Rare bird though.
The Valiant wagon is pretty cool, too. We inherited one of those back in the mid-60s. Gee, I was in my first accident (as a passenger) in that car...
Convertibles are great. I love convertibles. The thing to remember there is that when the top goes down the price goes up - considerably so.
That lot in Maine had some fun stuff. Not cheaply priced for what it was but cool.
I don't think you'll be able to touch a '61 Impala Coupe. Those are very very popular.
I don't think it's gas consumption or not being old enough...it's just that for the most part, they weren't very good cars. And that's coming from someone who loves big 70's boats!
Still, I think they can be pretty cool cars. I wouldn't mind having a 1975 LeSabre convertible, baby blue, preferably with the 455 V-8. I think the '71-73 LeSabre/Centurion and '71-72 Impala 'verts were pretty sharp looking, too. Most LeSabres and Impala probably just had 350's, but a 455 was standard in the Centurion, making it a performance bargain.
I think Ford quit making big convertibles after 1972, and Chrysler gave it up after 1971, and none of them sold in near the quantity that GM did.
The Studebaker Hawk would really be uncommon and an eye catcher.
Like Andre I have a soft spot for 70s boat convertibles. Looked at a 74 Impala convertible long enough ago that it was on a regular used car lot. I couldn't quite pull the trigger. Some of that might have been that it was a 74. That was the worst year ever for cars.
About ten years ago, I had the chance to buy one of my favorite cars. A 1952 Chevy. It was a four door Deluxe and it looked and ran well.
But I got to thinking. Suppose the lower end loosens up as they always do given enough time. Who is still alive who would be willing and able to work on those babbitt bearings and rods?
Who would be able to reseal that closed driveline when the internal seals fail?
And when the kingpins need to be replaced, who could do them?
Modern shops hate to work on cars that are fifteen years old much less one that is 50 plus years old. I lack the skill and equipment to do anything extensive.
And suppose someone runs a red light and takes out a rear door and quarter panel?
On that Chevy, used parts could probably be found but what it it was a Studebaker or a Packard or even a Chrysler?
This is why I haven't bought anything.
if you see something you like, it doesn't hurt to ask.
if your offer is not accepted, keep looking.
Here's my silly Rules of Thumb on this subject
1. The asking price is the act of the seller exercising his First Amendment Rights under the Constitution. This price does not have to have anything to do with reality, unless of course the seller actually wants to sell the car.
2. Never bargain with a seller on the phone before you see the car. This PO's most sellers.
3. Never challenge the asking price directly, as if it were "wrong".
4. Don't talk price at all until you have driven and inspected the car.
5. Make an offer. If he counters, work from there. If he refuses to counter, write your offer down on a business card and wish him a good day and WALK.
Remember, the old cliche still holds true:
"You cannot negotiate successfully if you cannot leave the table."
6. Bringing price guides with you is helpful, if they favor your cause of course.
7. DON'T say "I saw another one in the paper for $2,000 less, because you've just played straight man to his retort---well then, smart [non-permissible content removed], go buy that one!"
i am not kidding.
Sounds like a plan. Shifty, the next time I fall in love with another old 70's mastodon, I'm bringing you with me, because I know how you feel about them! :shades:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/automobiles/collectibles/06EGO.html?scp=19&sq=- Auto%20Ego&st=cse
By the way, how is your '68? Have you finally let it go yet?
of course, she is not giving up her car, so it's like trying to catch up in age to your older sibling. :surprise:
lucky for you and many others.
go to google and type corvair.
if you see somthing you like, post back about it.
i am sure you will get some opinions.
Corvair brakes are EXCELLENT---best American braking car in 1965, hands down.
Handling needs a mod to the steering to quicken the ratio lock to lock, otherwise it's pretty good.
You'd have to join the Corvair network to learn all the tricks.
http://specialtysales.com/1966-pontiac-lemans-gto-clone-c-1627.htm
and another, but it's not "vintage":
http://specialtysales.com/1995-chevrolet-corvette--c-1822.htm
After 1972 or so, American cars became burdened with clumsily-designed emissions controls, lower compression engines, and generally mediocre performance, quality and styling. They are simply not highly regarded by collectors and for good reason. The thrill is gone and you end up tinkering with them all the time.
This rarely gets any better until the mid 1980s, when you start to get some interesting American iron again, like the C4 Corvette and the Buick V-6 Turbo cars.
In fact, one could actually attribute the rise of the "red hot" collector car market for 50s and 60s cars, to the rather dismal choices people had of late 70s and early 80s cars.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
My logic was that the Barracuda was built on the Valiant chasis, so all the 'cuda parts should bolt right on.
A nice sleeper, I thought. Sometimes, in my more practical moments, I thought that I'd settle for a 340 instead of the Hemi.
Well, they made Hemi Darts too, so it sounds like it would be a feasible thing to do, as long as you swapped everything you needed, and did the appropriate beefing up.
A 2-door Valiant would probably be sturdier, too, as it had a B-pillar and framed doors, whereas the Hemi Dart/Barracuda were hardtops.
But yeah, a 340 would probably be a much better bet overall. In the Dart GTS, the 340 was good for 0-60 in about 6 seconds, with an automatic tranny and middle-of-the-road 3.23:1 gearing. And that was just the 4-bbl 340, not the six pack.
A 440 in that car wouldn't even run that. Show me the time slips is my skeptical response.
I'm thinking 7.5 to 8 is more real world.
I know those buff rags tend to get a bit optimistic with their 0-60 times. Case in point, the infamous 3.9 second 1965 Catalina 2+2.
However, stuffy old Consumer Reports once tested a 1969 Charger with a 440-4bbl. automatic tranny, and 3.23:1 gears. Even they got 0-60 in 7 seconds flat...and CR's times tended to be a lot more conservative than the buff rags.
I remember an old test somewhere of either a Barracuda or a Dart GT with the hot 273-4bbl V-8, and with the automatic it came in around 7.5-8 seconds.
I think even a 1974 or so 360-4bbl in a Duster/Dart Sport was still good for 0-60 in around 6-6.5 seconds. And the 360 wasn't the performer that the 340 had been. Peak hp, when you're comparing net ratings, was similar, but the 340 had a broader power range.
Magazines of that time were notorious in faking numbers or....more excusable, very sloppy in how they did the tests.
The old big blocks make a lot of noise but they can't get much power to the ground, like a modern car.
I'm sure you could get 6 seconds out of a GTS with a balls to the wall modified 440.
And sure, you can install very low rear ends, use racing slicks, aviation gas, radically advanced timing, ice up the fuel supply, take out the spare and back seat and all that stuff and get at least another second or two out of it I'd guess.