Toyota 4Runner

klaudnyc · September 2003

Has anyone noticed this phenomenon? I swear it used to happen for the first week I owned the truck but now it doesn't do it any more. I checked the owner's manual but there is no mention of it.

Bad news - my sunroof started to rattle this weekend! Guess I'll be bringing the Toyota TSB to the service dept. Anyone unsuccessfully attempt to have the dealer fix this?

Thanks

terrafirma · September 2003

If you are considering the Aviator, look at the Explorer Ltd instead. It's the same truck, slightly different styling.
The Fords won't keep their resale value. There is a reason they are so cheap and financing is easy.

I'm surprised you think the Aviator is nicer. I would take a SR5 4Runner over the Aviator. The Toyota is built so much better and it will remain so in 5 years. I don't like to take a crapshoot with my $30K so I got the Toyota.

The 4 Runner has one of the highest resale values of any model. I think the Explorer is below avg.

gretsch · September 2003

I have an Explorer now ( I know...yuc) that's only 2 years old, but I thought I would trade it in for a new one because of all the inredible incentives and 0%. Something didn't feel quite right about getting a new Explorer and I discovered the 03 4runner. I would have bought a 4runner a couple weeks ago if the incentives were for the AP package, and not just the non-AP. I thought I'd wait to see if any incentives come around for the one I want. So for several weeks now I have been reading this board, and now I'm wondering if it's wise to get an 03 and not an 04 (although I don't know that the 04's will be in the $ range that I want to spend right now). I am worried about the sulfer problem and the engine noise I have read about. How significant are these problems? And once and for all, does it NEED premium gas? I want an suv that takes 87--that would be a deal breaker. BTW, I would get a V6, 2WD. I appreciate any input, as I would like to make my decision (IF buying an 03) before the frickin CA fees go up in October. Thanks!

nippononly · September 2003

asking the service writer that very question a couple of weeks back, and he said that putting 87 octane in the Runner just retards performance a little, but can be used with no adverse effects.

My local dealer still has several of the old black-plastic-cladding Runners on his lot - they stand out like a sore thumb. They must have been there several months, since they don't make them that way any more. I wonder what the enormous discount is on those...

ohello · September 2003

I was at a no-haggle dealer in the DC area this weekend and was told that they are currently getting $1400 dealer cash for 03 4Runners with cladding and $700 for 03 4Runners without the cladding. They subtract this from the no-haggle price. They had an SR5 with cladding sitting in the showroom that was built in 10/02. Yikes - already a year old when you buy it....

zeus258 · September 2003

I took my 03 Sport V8 to a wild trail.
Enjoyed it a lot but got some scratches already.
My beauty came with appearance package, so, scratches are noticeable when you have no gray cladding.
Should I take the car to the dealer or is it possible to get the exact paint tone and do it yourself?
This baby is amazing off road !!!!!

zeus258 · September 2003

I like the Sport Bumper trim and I plan to get it later on.
It Looks expensive; $760+TAX+Installation.
Has anyone found it cheaper elsewhere?

klaudnyc · September 2003

I have noticed some online companies offering Toyota touch-up paint. They have Stratosphere Mica, which is the color of my '03 4Runner. IMO body shops will do better job than dealers at a lesser cost.

Zeus - Just saw the Sport Bumper trim. Looks a little small for that price IMO. Have you considered a stainless steel brush guard?

sbcooke · September 2003

I checked the toyota website, but cannot find any clear definition on the systems and function.

The V6 has "multimode" and the V8 has "fulltime" 4wd. They list using Torsen center differentials with a locking feature? Is that just autolocking as part of the Torsen setup?

So I guess my questions are...is there a 4wd high/low range of gearing? Can you lock the center differential completely or does it always remain an autolocker?

terrafirma · September 2003

GAS - YES you can use 87. I use 89 (mid grade). IF it knocks then you need to use higher octane but it won't hurt anything to use lower octane.

4WD= you can lock the diff completely. THere is a switch on the dash to do that.

There is a 4hi/4lo switch also.

ltc9024 · September 2003

To answer the question of what fuel grade. BOTH engines are fine with Octane 87. One only has to read the owners manuals. The manuals do NOT say that premium is required!!!! Anyone who says differently is wrong wrong wrong. I have the V8 and 87 is fine.
This is a no brainer.

rogers12 · September 2003

Anyone know if the skid plates on a 4Runner are necessary for chassis stiffness or support? Do they serve any other function in addition to protection of the engine/xmission, gas tank, etc? I would like to remove them to save weight. I very seldom take it off-road and could easily put them back on if needs be.

corancher · September 2003

It's possible (though admittedly unlikely) that the skid plates have other functions such as preventing water spray from getting where it shouldn't. Interestingly, there is some venting to the front in one area.

Some folks with the V8 engine have been removing a couple of the skid plates to get to the oil filter, and leaving them off.

These plates don't seem very heavy, so I don't think removal will make much difference on a 4000+ lb. vehicle.

rogers12 · September 2003

Weight saving is a byproduct of the change. Actually, it makes some maintenance alot easier if they are not there.

rensho · September 2003

My 3wk old 2wd v6 hasn't smelled like sulfur since the 1st day. This is with the rr window down. I'm in CA. Still on the same tank of gas the dealer bought. No pinging at all, including days of 90+ heat.
I don't know what grade gas they put in there, so i'll run this down and fill with 87.

aheck · September 2003

3 weeks on 1 tank of gas? I need to learn how to do that!

Aaron

rogers12 · September 2003

I think it is possible that many people who smell the "sulfur smell" only when they first own the truck are smelling burn-off of either undercoating overspray or of driveshaft grease that has been thrown off the driveshafts.

I know that grease contains alot of sulfur as an additive and might just be causing a short-term smell. It would take many days for this smell to dissipate completely, and possibly longer if the driver only drives short distances with occasional longer or more aggressive driving. During these times, some more grease might either burn off or be thrown off the driveshafts.

I just greased by drive shafts and am getting a nasty smell from some excess grease getting thrown on the exhaust pipe. Thought maybe it tied in for some instances. Some trucks may have a bad seal on one u-joint and throw off grease for a long period.

coppermine2001 · September 2003

Saw this post on the other discussion board by "theman1971":

"I'm in suburb of Chicago. I went to 4 local dealers and at each dealer there is 1 '04 4Runner. All are black LTD V8, SR, GY, RF, RL and Z1 options. 2 have NV and 2 have EJ."

Anybody heard anything from dealers in southern California about the 2004 4Runners yet?

bryancos · September 2003

Can't remember who asked about this a while back, but the Auto Dimming Mirror w/ built in HomeLink control made by Gentex (with or without compass/thermometer/maplights) is available from a third party vendor:

http://www.truckspecialties.com/mitomirror/homelink.htm

bulych · September 2003

to message 7536
regarding the 4runner.i just sold my 96 4rnner lt.for 12000 can. it had 360,000 klm(225,000 miles)it was operating just like when i bought it new.never had a problem except for rear axle seals.rear brakes never replaced.front brakes had 230,000 klm.with over 50% brake pad left.one of our staff has had two explorers and at around 200,000klm had to replace the transmission in both vehicles.i feel that the the 4runner is one of the best built suv in that category

nick4597 · September 2003

Was looking at some of the various comments on lack of leg support in the new 4Runner... has anyone tried unbolting the front screws of the seat and maybe putting some washers in there to raise the seat a bit back? I did this on my former car (an 02 Altima) and it worked pretty good. Don't know how it would work in the 4Runner since the rails are bent and not straight. Just a suggestion for those looking to try something...

ray_c · September 2003

Is their a reason why the sport edition dont offer a 3rd row seat?

Thanks,

Ray

beercoll1 · September 2003

I have used on 87 octane - V8 Sport. No problems, great power, smooth acceleration.
6 months, 11k miles.

There was a mention awhile back about a Borla exhaust system for $600 parts + tax/labor. I have been quoted a price of over $800 for parts alone. Where did you receive the quote, eastern US? What type was it? I am interested in changing the exhaust system.

Does anyone know of any offroad trails close to Delaware?

nippononly · September 2003

if the space necessary for the XREAS on the sport makes it impossible to also squeeze in the third row seat...are any '04s equipped with XREAS AND third row?

yomols · September 2003

Nick, I have an 03 SR5 and had a Katzkin leather interior package installed about 2 months ago. It looks as good or better than factory and I love it. I'm in Denver so I can' help you with a Chicago installer but I think Katzkin is available nationally.

mhallack · September 2003

87 works just great in my V8 SR5 4x4. No knock, no ping. Power with 93 is stupendous, power with 87 seems merely awesome. I would run higher octane only for towing or drag racing ;^)

I was interested in the Aviator and then couldn't find any that were 4WD or AWD (same thing with the Explorer). I guess Ford/Mercury has found that it is not an important selling point, but I think its an important safety feature (plus I plan to do some light offroading).

rentschl · September 2003

>"My rectifier/filter circuitry and draws from the AC output of the alternator."
>
>I may be wrong, but I thought the frequency of the alternator AC output varied with engine >speed. If so, it is unsuitable as a direct source of 60 Hz AC.
>
>What is your knowledge of this issue?

Yes the frequency of the alternator will track the engine speed and you want something close to 60 Hz for the 115 V AC. I was only pointing out that you might not want to take it all to 12 V DC and then back to 115 V AC.

The output voltage swing of the alternator will also vary as well as a function of engine speed, making it unusable directly.

-Eric

mhallack · September 2003

Forgot to say in previous post that octane did not affect my mileage...I get 15-17 mpg driving an average 20-25 miles regardless of the type of gas.

rentschl · September 2003

I was asking around about why the higher capacity trailer hitches are not being offored in the US from Toyota as an assessory for folks with the early lower capacity version. The parts guy at the dealer said that it's only because of paperwork filed with the US government associated with emmissions.

There's nothing stopping anyone from upgrading to the newer hitch by getting it from Canada (see www.toyota.ca).

As for the skid plates I have a few comments. I went through some deep, heavy spring snow and managed to bend one when I came down off a packed-down snow rut. It wasn't real off-road; it was on a regular road, just with lots of wet, heavy snow.

Looking at the skid plates, they're really thin and flimsy compared to what they put on the older models.

The other point that nobody's mentioned yet is that to jack up the front end in the center of the vehicle (getting both front wheels off the ground at once), you need to take off the front skid plate. If you didn't there wouldn't be a place to put the jack without squishing the skid plate.

Looking at the skid plate though, there is a funny, reinforced hole where it looks like it is there to accept a jack or an adaptor for a jack.

I wonder what the story is on that; they went to some trouble to have the hole thing???

Ideas?

-Eric

klaudnyc · September 2003

Don't go together because of spacial issues. 2004 Sports don't have 3rd row seating for this reason, and neither do 2004 Limiteds with optional X-REAS.

aheck · September 2003

Damn, that's a real bummer. I was waiting for the '04 to possibly get a Limited with both of these options. While I haven't driven a truck with the shocks, I hear they make for a nice ride driving around town. I won't be doing any off-roading. Will I really miss the X-REAS? Maybe I shouldn't even drive a truck with them so I don't know what I'm missing.

Aaron

klaudnyc · September 2003

I haven't driven one without the X-REAS so unfortunately I can't compare. But I believe its biggest advantage is improving stability in 'sporty' driving, i.e. hard cornering. The nose doesn't dip down when I take it hard around a corner or make sudden movements. Makes the truck feel lighter than it really is.

I don't think it really contributes to giving the truck a more cushy ride.

Guess it depends on your driving habits. I'm coming off a sporty sedan so I enjoy that sort of driving.

ray_c · September 2003

Thanks

aheck · September 2003

Damn, that's a real bummer. I was waiting for the '04 to possibly get a Limited with both of these options. While I haven't driven a truck with the shocks, I hear they make for a nice ride driving around town. I won't be doing any off-roading. Will I really miss the X-REAS? Maybe I shouldn't even drive a truck with them so I don't know what I'm missing.

Aaron

yotagene · September 2003

Are you sure about the X-Reas and 3rd row seat conflict? The way I read the 2004 e-Brochure, the Rear Height Control Air Suspension (with the X-Reas) is NOT available with the 3rd row seat. BUT, if you get X-Reas alone (w/o the air suspension control) you can definitely get that with the 3rd row seats on the Limited. I would definitely get the X-reas. You can really tell a difference on tight winding roads. I didn't get that on my '03 and I regret it.

There is a conflict with a Navigation System and a 3rd row seat. You can't get both together. On my 2003 Limited, our Nav. system is above the right rear wheel well which probably will get in the way of the right rear 3rd row seat. That's unfortunate that they couldn't find another spot for the Nav. System.

-Gene

alfster1 · September 2003

PREMIUM UNLEADED IS RECOMMENDED, but all 4Runners will run quite fine on Regular Unleaded. Mileage should not vary between these two fuel types. You should not experience any knocking with either fuel type. I have noticed a slight performance boost when using Premium Unleaded, which is to be expected. Otherwise, you can save a little $$ by using Regular Unleaded. You will not harm the engine.

zeus258 · September 2003

But isn't it true that the higher the octane, the better the mileage you get?
If that's true, and regular fuel gives fewer miles per gallon, What $$ would we save?

69mach1 · September 2003

I have the X-REAS system on my 2003 Sport. It wallows around corners while driving the mountain roads in Colorado. How do you know if the system is working properly?

nick4597 · September 2003

Thanks yomols - I looked at katzkin's web site and they have a real good selection. Looks like I have to buy the kit first and then they will tell me who installs it in my area. Not bad price, around $1175 installed it said. The seats in the SR5 are so hard, with the aftermarket leather are the seats any softer? Thanks again.

alfster1 · September 2003

No it isn't true....Premium Unleaded won't necessarily increase your mpg. You MAY notice a performance boost using Premium, but that doesn't mean that you will get better mileage.

I've been using 87 and 89 Octane for the past 1500 miles and have averaged 23mpg on the highway and 17-18mpg in the city with a V8. MPG is most dependant on how you drive (jack rabbit starts, weather conditions, aggressive high speed driving, etc).

***
FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
There is alot of interesting facts from this site.

From the ftc.gov site:

The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline

Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owners manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It wont make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owners manual.

The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.

Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.

What are octane ratings?
Octane ratings measure a gasolines ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.

Whats the right octane level for your car?
Check your owners manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.

How can you tell if youre using the right octane level?
Listen to your cars engine. If it doesnt knock when you use the recommended octane, youre using the right grade of gasoline.

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your cars engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?
A few car engines may knock or ping  even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.

Is knocking harmful?
Occasional light knocking or pinging wont harm your engine, and doesnt indicate a need for higher octane. But dont ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.

Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?
The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what youre buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."

jaredmsd · September 2003

gretsch,

If you are in California, then you have no worries about the sulfur smell. California's has lower sulfur levels in their gas than any other state. Only people in like 10 or so states have commented on the sulfer problem.

-Jared

micksdad1 · September 2003

For those of you that like the Stratosphere Mica color, edmunds.com indicates that 3rd row seat is not available.

vodgut · September 2003

I saw that, too. I found it interesting. There must be some weird refracting properies of that color that would cause the 3rd row seat to melt if the vehicle is in direct sunlight, otherwise they'd be able to offer the two together.

rogers12 · September 2003

That information on determining when to use premium gasoline is outdated. Most engines now retard timing automatically when preignition is detected by the knock sensor. This is how many engines are able to use 87 octane gasoline without preignition. Their ignition timing will be retarded when that gasoline is used. Retarding ignition timing permits lower octane gas to be used.

In reality, their optimum (default) ignition timing is dialed in by the computer when a higher octane gas is used. I have had a couple of cars that required 93 octane to run their best, both in performance and gas mileage. Both of these attributes suffered significantly when the owner's manual's recommendation on 87 octane fuel was followed. It was common knowledge that you needed 93 octane fuel to get the most from the engine. However, 87 was fine for undemanding driving.

yomols · September 2003

Nick, I think the seats may be a bit more comfortable with the leather but I really didn't have a problem with the cloth seats, at least for comfort. I got em because I have dogs. Again the Katzkin is great, just check out the installer.

nick4597 · September 2003

yomols -

What color do you recommend? You probably had the same interior I did, the light grays with seats the looked like light patio furniture (sort of!) I was thinking a darker gray. I wonder if the interior guys could add more padding for leg support. Anyways, thanks again...

Galileo757 · September 2003

On the AVG MPH display, the average 25 MPH number never changes for my vehicle, the AVG MPG and fuel mileage range changes, has anyone notice this, or is it something I'm missing here?
Thanks!

alfster1 · September 2003

It is outdated? I wasn't aware of that. Either way, I guess we are in agreement. I am aware of the knock sensors, which have been around for some time.

Personal mileage will vary, but to my limited driving (1500 miles) thus far, I haven't seen any significant differences in fuel economy, but I do notice a bit more "get up and go" when using Premium Unleaded, but not enough to justify the additional 20 cents/gal. These days, with the price of gas pushing 1.99 for regular unleaded, every penny counts.

alfster1 · September 2003

I have noticed that as well, but I don't think it's a glitch. The average mph indicator averages both highway and city driving. You can reset it at any time by pressing and holding the Mode button for a couple of seconds. The Avg MPH won't change much unless you make dramatic changes in your speed over a significant interval of time. You should experiment. For example, if you are driving on the highway, reset the display and you should see your display, for example, 55 mph (typical highway speed).

rogers12 · September 2003

It is only outdated from the point of view that does not take into account variable ignition timing. In that case, you can run lower octane fuel and not get ping. Only your performance and mileage suffers. They make ping as the sign of needing higher octane (which is true) but don't admit that in some engines higher octane does give better performance. Performance (and to a lesser extent gas mileage) is a more modern indicator of your engine needing higher octane gas. The result of using low octane gas is just not as big a problem as it used to be with carbeurators with fixed ignition timing.

Toyota 4Runner

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