Toyota 4Runner

yotagene · September 2003

Whitney8 you are absolutely correct. Rear Height Control Air Suspension is available as an option on the Limited only. Thanks for correcting me. So #4 in my previous post should have read this simply:

4. Rear Height Control Air Suspension (Limited option only).

~yotogene

whitney8 · September 2003

Tangman, I live in WA. The easiest way to reproduce the sulfer smell is to do the following: roll down the back window (any amount) maybe the side windows too, and floor it for a ways then let off and come to a stop. In most cases this will produce the smell, and it will come in the windows, since it won't be blown away, like it would on a highway. It doesn't sound like the V6's have been smelling but many have commented on the V8's doing it.

From what I have gathered, from this site and my own expirence, is that it is probably due to high sulfer content in the fuel. Since there have been few instances in CA where they have lower sulfer content in the fuel.

For the first few months of ownership I never detected the smell. Probably because I was still being "nice" to my new baby during the break in period. But once that was over, I began doing some full throttle runs, (gotta love that exhaust note when passing the blue hairs). This is when I would get the "smell".

Interestingly enough, I have not had the "smell" lately, even when driving with a HEAVY foot. Fuel has been the same: ARCO regular. I have nearly 10K on it now.

To sum it up:
first 2500 mi - no smell
2500 to 6500 - smell, when flooring it
6500 to 9500 - little to no smell...

hotdogonastick · September 2003

hello everyone! i've been reading posts in this forum for months and i've decided to go for the 03 4runner sport 4x4 V8 in galactic grey. i got back from the dealer and was quoted: with the moonroof, 3-in-1 6-disc, spoiler, electrochromic mirror, homelink, drl options for 30,650 plus ttl. but i'll have to wait a few days to get it shipped from another location. he'll call on monday to see if he could find one with the head curtains but either way i'm thinking of placing an order then. is that a pretty good deal, average, or too much. i also don't know the milage on the prespective runner. so what are your opinions? thanks in advance.

oscarz2 · September 2003

Can anyone else please chime in on this issue? My brake pedal vibrates every 3rd or 4th time I apply the brakes (regardless of speed). No lights, buzzers, or sounds...just the electronic vibration. I know it's normal at startup (ABS or Traction Control "self-check"), but is it normal on a continual basis as you drive around the neighborhood? It's extremely annoying. It happens each 3rd or 4th time I come to a stop and lasts from about 3-5 seconds.

tangman · September 2003

Thanks Whitney8 for input. I just ordered an 04 Sport V8 4x4. I also live in Washington State. Have test driven at least 4 and have not experienced the smell and tried similar procedure to yours. I know three people who have 03s and have not as well. But I will certainly try your recommendation once mine arrives. Also, if anyone else has any recommendations on other things to test, before accepting the new vehicle, I would appreciate it. By the way, what kind of gas milage are you getting with you V-8?

Hotdogonastick: While looking on the west coast, I found quite a few Galatic Gray sports at very aggressive prices. Just check the dealer inventories on the internet. The price you posted is about average, since if you haggle you can get $500 over and sometimes $100 over on 04s

suvowner1 · September 2003

jeep certainly had this problem for the 1999-2002 model years.its a a shame it took them that long to resolve it.....it seems there problem was too fold.....
1. relatively cheap rotor materials
2. calipers that didn't adequately let go of the rotor, rendering it to run hot
3. some have argued overtourqed wheel lugnuts, but if that is such as common problem for tire stores then why don't other vehicles have this problem so commonly, so I don't buy this explanation at all, and neither should you.

For 03 they redesigned the rotor and the problem has been dramatically reduced. Those who didn't get the rotor kit, would replace with good quality aftermarket rotors and the problem got much better.

I sure hope toyota isn't getting into a problem like jeep had.

terrafirma · September 2003

You don't even own a 4Runner so you don't know what you're talking about.
This has nothing to do with the rotors, calipers or lugnuts.
Please don't try to diagnose problems on a vehicle which you don't own.

tidester · September 2003

Please don't try to diagnose problems on a vehicle which you don't own.

Perhaps you could be a bit more constructive in your criticism by offering a diagnosis of your own? :-)

tidester, host

suvowner1 · September 2003

so in order to participate in a group discussion one must own the vehicle in which they are discussing........and so if I bought a 4runner tomorrow then I would be entitled to offer an opinion.give me a break man........

brakes are brakes are brakes are brakes.....they have calipers and rotors, and if the rotor has an uneven surface then the brake pedal will vibrate/pulsate.......hence the short term solution previously mentioned on another post, to turn the rotor, which means to shave off the outer few hundreths of an inch to have a fresh even surface to brake on.

Now that more of the 03 4runners are starting to get some miles on them, it is interesting that brake pulsation issues are starting to show up. A large percentage of the time it is caused by one of the 3 problems I mentioned on my previous post, which despite terrafirms opinion I think could be helpful information to other readers. Talk to any good brake mechanic and they will agree with me.

oscarz2 · September 2003

The brakes are not vibrating. The BRAKE PEDAL is vibrating (not pulsating) and it's an electronic vibration caused by the motor that runs ABS, Traction Control, or Brake assist, or all three.

It's the same vibration that occurs for 3-5 seconds when the car is started (when it does it's "self-check"). I believe the ECU computer controls this.

My question to anyone with an 03 4runner is this... is it supposed to do this every 4th time I apply the brakes? Does yours do it? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Bueler? Bueler?

whitney8 · September 2003

Oscarz2, you make me laugh!
To answer your question: No, the "PEDAL" should not be vibrating every 3rd or 4th time you use it.
Sounds like one or all the the things you mentioned are malfunctioning. I would take it in.

terrafirma · September 2003

You don't need to own a vehicle to participate, you just need to know what you're talking about first. maybe even listen to the original question- which has nothing to do with warped rotors or brake pads or anything mechanical.

One person talks about pedal vibration and "it is interesting that brake pulsation issues are starting to show up"?

oscarz2
The pedal vibration maybe caused by one of 2 things:
1. The HAC. Go on a steep incline to activate the HAC, the brake pedal will have an exaggerated version of what you describe oscarz2.
Somehow this might be involved while you are braking

2. It may have to do with the 4 Runner's power assisted brakes.

Either way go to Toyota and have them look at it. That is the only way to confirm if there is a problem.

suvowner1 · September 2003

AS I recall there were several posts a few days ago about warped rotors, and having toyota resurfacing them............I was also trying to adress those posts as well.......

bmw323is · September 2003

Oscar, I too have the pedal vibration. I feel it more now than when the vehicle was new. So far it is minor and it doesn't really annoy me. But, at some point if the problem pusists, I'll have the dealer look at it. The problem is that if it doesn't do it all of the time (or almost all of the time), the dealer will just say that they couldn't reproduce the vibration and they will do nothing and you will have wasted a service appointment. I have had this experience many times with other vehicles. It's a long warranty, and as long as there is no safety issue, I'll wait until it gets worse.

puckyhuddle · September 2003

I realize people with complaints are more vocal than people with praise, so I am trying to get a real sense of how big a problem this sulphur issue is. I'm reading posts from people going into lemon law arbitration over this, so it's a bit concerning for those like me contemplating a 4runner purchase. Could I ask all of you owners to help me get a sense of the problem? Assuming you are driving a V8 with the rear window UP (as everyone should always), how bad is the problem, on a 1 to 10 scale:
1 - I have never noticed it
10 - I have to sell my 4runner because it is not useable

Thanks in advance for your help!

onyeiii · September 2003

That is a good question, Pucky. I have an '03 V8 sport, in Oklahoma. I have rarely, if ever, noticed the sulphur smell with the rear window up, and then only very faint. It is more prevalent with the rear window down, especially after heavy acceleration (like entering expressway). Even then it will clear after a few minutes.

This is a great truck. I bought it primarily for towing, and am very happy with it for that purpose and general driving. As others have noted, it is not a sports car - you sit higher, have to break sooner, and are generally aware of the 4500 odd pounds this thing weighs. The X-reas makes a big difference, and it rides generally flat, with no corner diving, even on sharp turns. The transmission is smooth. I have always wanted more power in every vehicle I drive, but I think any more in this particular vehicle would be overkill.

Good luck! If you do choose to buy one I think you will be very happy with it.

Oh yeah - to put a number on the sulphur ...........2.

khaug · September 2003

We got our '03 Limited V8 just after Thanksgiving last year, and now have 18K miles on it. I'd echo the comments in the post above. I wasn't even aware of the smell until I drove the truck with the sunroof open for the first time. Somehow, the smell finds its way into the cabin through the sunroof opening.

Although it only occurs during hard acceleration, the smell is really intense and repugnant, to the point that I avoid heavy acceleration when driving with the sunroof open. I've had friends driving behind us describe the smell as "overpowering".

My personal feeling is that a $40K vehicle should not subject its passengers and others to this sort of unpleasantness, and it angers me that Toyota is stonewalling its customers over what is clearly a pervasive (and probably remediable) problem. Never the less, I'd also rate the problem as no worse than a "2". If I habitually drove with the windows open, though, I think I'd probably feel quite different!

Galileo757 · September 2003

V8 2003 just over 1000 miles, no Sulfur smell and no pedal vibration so far, the vehicle is using 87 octane gas in KY.

stoes · September 2003

How can I tell the date when my 4Runner was manufactured?

Thanks

tacoviva · September 2003

Listen, the sulfur and exhaust is entering the cabin through a vent on the left rear of the vehicle. When the sulfur is gone you'll still have exhaust coming in. This is from Toyota, not me. There's a design oversight by Toyota. Don't buy it.

3toyboy · September 2003

On a scale of 1 to 10......1
'03 SR5 4x4 V8, 1800 miles

bpl646 · September 2003

I too have the sulfur smell,3500 miles ,also only when stomping on the gas pedal ....1-10 Id say a 3,but damn toyota its about time to own up to these problems( I have the exhaust manifold tapping too) and take care of your loyal customers.or is it worth it to lose us in the future for poor care now

alfster1 · September 2003

Here's my 2 cent's worth with regards to the Sulfur Smell.

I have a v8 2003 4runner with about 2000 miles and the rear spoiler. The only time that I personally smell any sulfur is when the rear cargo area window is open. Having the rear cargo window open while driving is not recommended, according to the owner's manual. With the rear cargo window closed and any of the OTHER windows open, I do not smell any sulfur.

If you smell sulfur and your rear cargo window is closed, then I would try going back to the dealer to address this issue.

I agree that it should not matter if you drive with the rear cargo window open or closed, but I guess there is some aerodynamic reason that causes exaust to enter through the open cargo window. It may be interesting to note that other SUV owners of other brands do not notice this problem as TOYOTA 4Runners are one of the few SUVs out there with a sliding rear cargo window.

---

A possible fix? Perhaps add a tailpipe extension that directs exhaust towards the right of the vehicle. Has anyone tried this? I am interested in knowing the results.

corancher · September 2003

stoes, open the driver's door and look below the strike plate on the door frame. You'll see a big sticker or two telling you where and when the vehicle was built, along with tire pressure and other things.

kheintz1 · September 2003

I've had my new 4Runner Limited (V8) for 2 weeks now, and have logged ~1300 miles in that short time. (Had the oil changed today, just as a precaution during the break-in period. Some may think this is unnecessary, but I'm more comfortable doing it this way.) So far, no obvious sulfur, exhaust odor. But you know, my 2002 Explorer occasionally produced a very noticeable sulfur odor, and I did a couple of things (which may have no basis in reality, but I digress...) that largely eliminated the problem. First, I made a strong effort to buy only Shell fuel, rather than filling up with whatever brand was convenient. (But, I NEVER use BP products.) Second, at every oil change interval, I made it a point to run a tank of Shell fuel treated with Chevron Techron. Third, during most any "cold" start-up, I try to allow my vehicles to idle and begin warming-up for a couple of minutes, prior to driving away. Now, whether any of these measures actually had any real benefit, I don't know, but one or more of them seemed to help a good deal. But, if I had to pick one as being the most likely to help, I suspect that choosing and consistently using a single brand of high quality fuel (whenever possible) is preferable to just filling the tank with whatever brand (and grade) of fuel that's most convenient and cheap at the time of fill-up. With my new 4Runner, the manual recommends high octane fuel, and since I can afford it, that's what I'm feeding her, but your opinions and experiences may differ. With my new 4Runner, I plan to use the Krex products (http://www.krexinc.com/) recommended by my dealer.

Best regards to all. KH

rensho · September 2003

Hand someone else the keys and then drive behind them. You'll really smell the sulfur and it won't be a matter of open or closed back windows.
Oh the poor people behind us, or caravaning with us...(I guess they'll just have to use recirc the entire drive)

Lukily for me, being in CA, I have not smelled the sulfur issue since the first day. And it had nothing to do with heavy throttle. That was my initial drive home, and I can tell you that if i use less throttle, the truck would not have moved past the parking lot. It was an extremely easy/slow drive home.

oscarz2 · September 2003

Took my car in today and gave them a written description of the problem with copies of sections of the manual dealing with ABS, Traction Control, noises, vibrations, buzzers, etc., and I underlined, drew arrows, highlighted and made comments on those copies listing what I was describing and what I was not.

Now let say up front: "I'M A WEENIE" but I just didn't want to battle over this so I figured if I left no room for confusion, I wouldn't spend time later trying to pursuade them something was wrong.

To make a short story shorter, they special ordered me a new Master Cylinder Assembly. That's all the ppwk stated and my service advisor was gone for the day so I don't know if it's actually a cure or if it's part of the troubleshooting process but it's obviously an acknowledgement that the recurring vibration isn't normal and that's my main concern.

As far as the sulfur smell goes, I can't really tell. I haven't floored it yet or driven with the back window down but when the car is in the garage, there is a somewhat funky aroma that seems kinda sulfury but rubbery as well. I would attribute that more to new materials being heated than I would fuel but maybe it's both? At any rate, it's not an issue for me (yet). Time will tell.

klaudnyc · September 2003

Oscar - I have the same problem. It used to be more scarce, but now it happens 50% of the time I brake. It doesn't really interfere with the actual braking, but the pedal definitely has a vibrating/buzzing feel for a few seconds whenever I touch the pedal. It's quite annoying. I'm a little dismayed to hear that a new master cylinder needs to be installed.

This is problem # 3 for me. #1 is blurry sideview mirror and #2 is sunroof rattle.

bcmalibu99ls · September 2003

ALL first-year models have problems. Some less, some more. 4Runner seems to have less. But, I must say, sulfur smell is not just "an inconvenience," it's a great embarrasment. It's like loudly farting in an elevator packed with people. How many friends do you think you'd make that day? The same with the vehicle. If you drive around smelling like a skunk, people would simply laugh at you (at best). I smelled sulfur driving behind a vehicle only once (it was an older Camry), and I had to roll my windows up, and then drove past the Camry as soon as I could, since the smell was unbearable. I realize that otherwise 4Runners are fine vehicles, but you should raise stink with Toyota about stinky V8's, IMHO

BTW, how come Tundras and Lexus's with the same V8 don't stink? Or their owners don't complain as much?

bushski · September 2003

Just picked up an 04 sport edition. I have the JVC radio - no cd changer. Anyone have any idea if you can hook up XM radio to the stock radio. I would rather not use the FM modulator setup. Any connectors that would work?

bmw323is · September 2003

Please let us know if the master cylinder replacement helps the brake pedal vibration. At least, then, if I take my 4Runner in for the problem, I can tell them what the fix was for a fellow WEENIE!

brian211 · September 2003

I am looking at explorer, trailblazer, and 4runner and other suvs. Ford has 0% financing as does gm along with 4000 rebates. 03 4runners only have a 750 rebate with 3% financing. I have a quote from a dealer as follows limited 03 msrp 38,177, invoice 34,369 and internet price of 33,999. They say price is 300 over invoice less the 750. Is this a fair price or think they can go lower? Should I pay more for toyota or go for the ford or gmc or chevy. Are you satisfied with you choice of the toyota? Help me decide. My email is brian211@tmail.com

rogers12 · September 2003

You get what you pay for...

coolpop36 · September 2003

There is a reason that Ford and GM have those rebates. Rogers12 is right, you really do get what you pay for.

mgabel2 · September 2003

It's looking like to get the features I really want (like side air bags and X-REAS) I'll be "forced" to a Limited, all of whose current 2004 builds in my region (Central Atlantic) come with JBL Synthesis Audio, BUT that means that those Cargo Area Back-up Mirrors are gone, as a pair of speakers take up the space where the mirrors normally go.

(1) Are those mirrors good/important? [I'd think so.]

(2) Has anyone removed those speakers and put the mirrors back in?

Thanks.

canddmeyer · September 2003

They're NOT that important. Enjoy your tunes!

hotelseven · September 2003

I may be wrong here, but doesn't the 2004 model with the Navigation system come with the back up camera? As far as I thought, as soon as you put the truck in reverse, the Nav screen changes over to a view from the back up digital cameras. Im assuming that is an option though, and probably quite costly.

3toyboy · September 2003

I was more excited about the mirrors during the test drive. Having driven just under 2000 miles, the excitement has diminished. For me they are taking some getting used to, partly because their position in the cabin is so far back. I thought it would be just as accurate a sight line as the right hand mirror, but in practice, the natural distortion due to the mirror shape takes some getting used to. Bottom line - a good idea, but the driver has to work a little to get comfortable with the outward view. If you are a huge audiophile, stick with the stock setup.

mgabel2 · September 2003

Yes (I think) the 2004 with Nav does have the camera. The Limited I'm looking at does not.

3toyboy - I'm not much of an audiophile. But glad you say that those mirrors are not fantastic. However, I REALLY want someone to tell me how they ditched those speakers and slipped those mirrors back in. [My dealer says the speakers are "permanent."]

Part of my reaction is that I'm annoyed that to get basic safety and a good ride (side bags and X-REAS) I may need to get so many expensive things I don't want: Limited, moonroof, JBL, and Leather.

I'd be most happy with a Sport and side bags (the Sport comes with X-REAS).

Also, I was told that one could wait 6 months for a special order.

bryancos · September 2003

Apparently not all dealerships are equipped for, or capable of performing the work required for the headliner rattle TSB. I made an appointment with the local dealer today and took my 4Runner in, only to learn that they needed to take it to a local auto interior trim shop that was more familiar (and likely better equipped) with addressing this type of problem. I was told I would be without my vehicle for at least 2 days. I guess it's better to have an interior pro do the work than some tech who's clueless. Dealership agreed to furnish a rental car which turned out to be an ugly Toyota Echo. Upon going back to the rental agency, I requested an upgrade to a larger class vehicle and ended up w/ a Sable because they were out of Camrys. Worst part is that I had to pay the difference -- but the Echo was way too small for my needs. Just a heads up if you need to have the work done for the headliner rattle. Ask if they'll do the work and how long it'll take!

jagsdad · September 2003

I agree with you. I'm in so cal and wanted a 5Runner with XREAS and side airebags. Can't be found. (Actually, I found one, but it was 4wd and w/ air suspension) XREAS is standard in the sport, but it just does not come to dealers with side airbags. The Limiteds come to dealers with the side airbags, but no XREAS. So I had to order mine. In so call, orders take about 4 months. The nice thing about the order, though, is that you get exactly what you want, or don't want. I'm glad I waited.

Good luck.

nedzel · September 2003

I've only got about 1500 miles on my 03 V8. A couple times on the highway, with the windows rolled up, while accelerating up a hill, I've smelled a very slight bit of sulfur. The smell went away quickly. On your scale of 10, I'd rate this a 2. Not a problem for me, so far.

bcmalibu99ls · September 2003

what about those driving behind you? And in Texas it's legal to shoot at anyone whose car emits sulfurous discharges

asdf · September 2003

With the windows rolled up, and the exhausted gas gets into your car! The sulfur won't be that much to harm you, but other will.

beercoll1 · September 2003

At this point, who cares! There are a lot of other cars out there with the sulfur smell. It may be the gas. It may be the exhaust. If you don't like to the smell of your own vehicle, or are 'embarrassed' by it, there are several options to avoid making a stink: walking, biking, or taking the bus. Either way, there will be someone else out there, maybe a Toyota, Ford, Chevy, etc. who will be in front of you and may leave something behind for you.

carguy1234 · September 2003

I get rental cars all over, and I think there are regional differences. I can get Corollas in PA to smell awful, but not in CA. YMMV.

alfster1 · September 2003

Personally, I have driven 4runner w/ and w/o the back up mirrors. Trust me, you won't miss them, even though they are handy in tight quarters.

If you are concerned about driving in reverse, you might want to consider purchasing an aftermarket reverse video system, similar to one available on the 04 4runners with the optional NAV. There are also aftermarked sonar systems available.

beercoll1 · September 2003

If you think that you are not bright for buying a vehicle that will probably last 10+ years, with over 200k miles, go buy a Ford, Chevy, or some other quality vehicle. That way you can consider yourself an extra-sharpy.
The smell is what it is. The smell is here in our Toyotas and with other vehicles. And the other auto makers aren't fixing theirs either, so bad-mouthing Toyota for not fixing the problem is a waste of time. We all just have to sit tight and wait for the low-sulfur fuels in 2005. From what I can tell in the posts, those low-sulfur fuel states like California don't have the smell problem. If we still have the smell at that time, THEN lets complain.
In the meantime, I am going to enjoy my truck, and put a lot of miles on it, just like my last 3 4-Runners. And in the end, I'll get a great trade-in, just like my other 3.

4rnr · September 2003

Has anyone tried driving around with a portable Carbon Monoxide detector to check what CO levels may be present?

bcmalibu99ls · September 2003

I lived all over the states and Canada and do not remember cars smelling all that badly in any of the places I lived. Many old cars stunk of unburned gasoline, but not sulfur. Can only remember the Camry in front of me stinking of sulfur, but don't remember which state it was in. So, I don't think it's the fuel, I think it's Toyota's desire to have a low emission huge truck and get a decent mileage at the same time. I think that could be the reason. No other companies have trucks so heavy with V8s which get close to 20 MPG

Toyota 4Runner

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