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What Does Subaru Know That Others Don't?

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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes it's part of our legacy I guess. :)
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    ok, I'm going to have to meet you outback for that one....
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I couldn't agree more Shifty. A Hummer, in the proper environment, is hard to top.

    I blame GM for this. When the Hummer first came out, they marketed towards the "bling" crowd, and the vehicle has suffered ever since.

    This vehicle should have steel wheels and NO CHROME, and marketed in Idaho-like states. That's not what the quick-to-get-rich GM executives wanted, however.

    This is a classic case of "you never get a second chance to make a first impression." Hummer got stuck, right out of the gate, with the wrong image, and it has haunted them ever since.If properly marketed from the get-go, I doubt Hummer would be in the tough position it's now in.

    Bob
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Hmmm! Maybe Hummer should've been marketed the same way as the original Dodge Power Wagon - proven in wartime / proven in peacetime.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Hummer scene from the movie Cars was classic.

    It's towards the end, when the Sargaent (a Jeep I believe) is taking SUVs on an off road course, and of course the Hummer look-a-like has gigantic chrome wheels, and he's crying and saying "I've never been off road" or something like that.

    Hilarious.

    There are only so many rappers that will buy one, and even they don't really need one. The trend dies, Hummer dies with it.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah but that's when wars were popular.

    I think Subaru's marketing to the wilderness/granola bar crowd is pretty smart but like all marketing, it has to shift with the times---and I think Subaru is being smart again by making the new Forester reasonably attractive. For a while there I wondered if Subaru even HAD a styling department!
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    One of the big things that drew me to Subaru vehicles was their environmental commitment (Zero Landfill plant, commitment to forest preservation, pzev). That kind of marketing really worked for us as we tend to be more in that crowd. :shades:

    The other aspects of Subaru revolved around the safety reputation and their AWD experience. Big plusses up here in New England.

    Oh, and the availability of AWD with a stick. Nice to see somebody out there sees the market for such a thing.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I didn't realize AWD + manual transmission was so rare an option.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Pretty much the only things you can get that combo with are the BMW's and the bare bones Audi A4. Not sure if the VW R32 is available anymore.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    R32 is out of production.

    IS with AWD is auto only.

    Same for G35x, automatic only.

    Even when AWD is an option, it's usually packaged with an auto trans.

    In 1998 that was a big selling point, when I bought my first Subaru.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    also I like Subarus because they aren't pretentious. They have an image of practicality, ruggedness and a certain sobriety, but they aren't cheap-looking. I guess the design is best called "purposeful".

    You cannot surmise income levels or status of the driver of a Subaru.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Very true.

    I once started a letter writing campaign, and the letters came to me, and I forwarded them together to SoA.

    It was incredible. VP of this, CEO of that. Some big name companies. They used letter head and most added business cards.

    I felt like the poorest of the bunch.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Very true. I know a family that just bought a new one and they're sitting on maybe 200--300 million bucks (well at least they were up to last summer--LOL!) . I wonder if Warren Buffet owns one? Omaha can get nasty in winter.

    Some of you are probably too young to remember, but when the VW bug was selling like hot cakes, back in the 1960s when there were still dinosaurs roaming the Midwestern plains, it was considered quite cache for well-to-do families to have a little VW in the driveway to putt around town in. It was a kind of city car for the wealthy, or a Martha's Vineyard car. They're 3rd or 4th car. In retrospect, it was a Death Trap, but at the time, so were most cars in one way or another. Highway deaths per mile were never higher than back then.

    In fact, one of the marketing schemes used by VW in their brilliant advertising campaign was to show a little VW bug in a HUGE driveway of a mansion, with the word "STATUS" under the ad.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was probably just a thought back then. :D

    Earliest car ads I recall were from the 70s and mostly focused on gas mileage and prices.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    I think the very first Minis (from 1960, that is) had that same cachet...and I guess early grey market Smart cars had the same thing.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes you're right, Minis did have that cachet especially in the UK.

    I'm not sure about Smart cars. I think they are often the subject of some good hearted ridicule more than anything else. Smart may have crossed the line between what is cool and what isn't.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    VP of this, CEO of that.

    I got my used Outback from a bank VP who got it as a retirement gift. She flummoxed the other execs - all the previous bank officer retirees either went with Bimmers or Mercedes. Price wasn't a factor - the bank would have purchased just about anything. She didn't want to get stuck and wanted something she could toss golf clubs in.

    When I purchased her Outback in '03, she got a new one. That one now lives in Arizona at her snowbird condo and she got yet another one last year for tooling around Alaska in.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A friend in Montana called me last fall to ask about recommendations for an AWD for their winter place up there. I told them to get a Subaru but they just had to have a Lexus RX whatever....it ended up in a ditch last December. Oversteered right off the road on a downhill. I can imagine trying to control that thing as it UPSHIFTS into overdrive by itself :(
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    Maybe it was a local thing. Back before the official imports started, a local dealer was privately importing them and charging nearly 30K to have one. They were known to often be owned by what passes as the elite around here - a fourth or fifth car when the Bentley or Ferrari became boring.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have a Sienna and it's a great van, but in the snow it cannot hold a candle to our Forester.

    It could not even make it up the driveway while the Forester laughed it off, the driver hardly even noticing the snow.

    The Sienna is FWD but it's the traction control tuning that just halts whatever momentum you may have.

    Now I just back it up the driveway when that happens.
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    momofboysmomofboys Member Posts: 2
    Since you're all Subaru fans, and I haven't had one in yrs. Maybe you can help. I really wanted a Forester, but my 3 sons look like sardines in the backseat. They're 7, 9, and 11. Is the Tribeca worth the leap up to get the leg room and width? Friends don't like the Tribeca, but hey, they're Mazda people. Suggestions or comments?
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You'll definitely get more rear seat room (the Forester falls down in that department, big time) but you'll give up stickshift. The Tribeca is on a Legacy platform isn't it?
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ummm... I guess you haven't sat in the rear of an '09 Forester Shifty. It's much roomier back there than previous models.

    Bob
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Now I haven't but I've already read 2 reviews of the Forester that mention it, so something still must be a tad "substandard" there. Maybe it's leg room?
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Every write-up I seen has been pretty positive about the increased rear passenger space. I'm 5'9" and the leg room is fine; it's much improved over my wife's '01 Forester.

    Perhaps a trip down to the local Subie store to check out the new Forester might be in the cards for the Shift-meister?

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree with Shifty but mostly for a different reason - width.

    The 2009 Forestser gained a substantial amount of legroom, so unless you have 3 children over 6' tall the legroom is definitely adequate now. Prior models were tight for taller folks, but they addressed that for 2009.

    The problem is width. The middle child will sit on the hump, which is hard. It's the back of the armrest on all but the very base model. Fine in a pinch, but not long-term.

    Don't do it, one child will always be unhappy.

    And you also touched on the one nice thing about the Tribeca - the middle seat is actually designed in a 40/20/40 way, with 3 true positions. The kids will have much more width and the seats are actually shaped for 3.

    The kids will be a lot happier with the Tribeca.

    We own a 2009 Forester Limited but we looked very closely at the Tribeca, in fact we had a loaner Tribeca for an entire week and even took a road trip with it.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Subaru has ONE strong-selling model, the Forester. Nice little SUV, much critical acclaim, good choice for folks who want an SUV without the bulk. But all other Subaru models had sales declines last month, even the nearly-new Impreza. So, what does Subaru know that others don't? They know how to design a nice small SUV, one that is outdated in some ways despite being a new design, but overall a good package. That's about it. For a company with Subaru's brand equity and reputation for quality and safety, I wouldn't say that is all that great.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    fair enough backy but if you're the last man standing, who cares how you got there?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One strong selling model, yes, but sales for that model doubled in the worst economy I've seen in my entire lifetime.

    That's big.

    It's not even a new model, just a redesign. For an update to double sales in this economy, well, that makes headlines.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    think of what one stinkin' model did for Ford -- the '65 Mustang.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, fair point. But not what you and others were saying earlier in this discussion, when it DID matter how automakers achieved sales growth during these tough times.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The rules have changed. We'll probably see a couple of bankruptcies in the coming year, and probably the disappearance of a few name plates, too.

    I don't think SoA cares much how they did it, but merely surviving this slump would be a success.

    I like the Forester (heck, we bought one) so I'll be the first to acknowledge it was largely on the back of that model. But look at the Legacy concept - they are applying similar changes to that 2010 model - longer wheelbase, more passenger room, better space efficiency, etc.

    The Tribeca is the model in trouble.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The nails are definitely in Chrysler's coffin. As the competition shrinks, this helps the smaller more efficient companies like Subaru I think.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Besides them my crystal ball shows doom-and-gloom for Volvo, Saab, Hummer, Mercury, and Saturn. Maybe Suzuki and Mitsubishi (cars) as well.

    Even the optimists are saying 10 million cars this year (some say 9), after years of 16-17 million sales.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    More passenger room in the Legacy? Like, room in the back seat for people with legs? And here I thought one of the things Subaru knows that others don't is that most people don't buy a mid-sized sedan for carrying normal-sized people in the back seat! ;)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Legs...and feet! :D

    I'd like to see some toe space under the chair.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    think of what one stinkin' model did for Ford -- the '65 Mustang

    And then there was Iacocca's '84 minivan for Chrysler.

    I think Subaru needs to pop the mpg up somehow - if nothing else offer a FWD subcompact (they could Justify that :P ) and a FWD wagon.

    Beastly $4 a gallon gas trumps the beauty of AWD.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Or how about a FWD version of the Impreza? Oh wait... they tried that before. Never mind. :blush:
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Why not? Gas won't stay at 1993 prices much longer will it? There was talk back in December about doing a FWD Impreza for Europe, and maybe with a diesel flavor.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Why did Subaru ditch the original FWD Impreza, anyway? I almost bought one of those back in '95, a coupe. I see Suzuki has done exactly this with their SX4, which used to be AWD only and now has a FWD variant. Smart move.
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Because they wanted to carve out a niche, and they decided the niche would be "AWD all the time". And it worked, the sales doldrums of Subaru in the early 90s disappeared so quickly they might never have been there at all. Although that happened mostly because the first Outback based on the Legacy was such an enormous hit. Would it have done as well if Subaru HADN'T been the "AWD all the time" company? We will never know.

    I miss the Justy. Am I the only one? That was a right-sized car. I would take one right now, AWD or not, although getting AWD in such a small car is a real kick, and I would prefer it.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    I received an email survey from SOA a few months ago and also suggested that there might be a place for a FWD model - at a reduced price. I had a 94 FWD Legacy with a 2.2 L and passed it on to my teenage son for his first car in high school (yes, he actually paid me for it) and he still drives it in college. My daughter is about to get my 02 Prizm (Corolla) and complains that its not a subaru.
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    oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Hey, Justys are still around, and cheap (although they may have needs). :P

    1994 Subaru Justy
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    nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Yeah, but that one's not an AWD!

    And more's the point, where's the '09 model?

    Oh wait, could this be it? ;-)

    http://www.subaru.jp/r2/r2/index.html

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hopefully one of the things Subaru knows now that others don't is to NOT name a car so that the name rhymes with "rusty." :sick:

    They were probably thinking people would think "trusty", but in the Rust Belt the reality is something else.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think most people here know my stance on this: I'm totally against it. Subarus should remain 100% AWD—and yes, I'm aware that Subaru continues to sell FWD cars in a few other countries, and has been hinting they may offer more FWD cars in the future in other markets. It's a bad idea.

    Nick Senior, the head of Subaru Australia, has publicly said that if the upcoming Subaru-Toyota coupe is RWD-only, Australia will not import it. I'm with Nick.

    Bob
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I tend to agree. AWD is a "premium feature". If Subaru markets a cheap FWD in the Yaris class or a FWD coupe a notch up the ladder, it's just another car in a viciously competitive market segmant.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not only is it a "premium feature," it's what sets Subaru apart from every other carmaker out there here in the USA and most other markets. No other car brand else can claim to be 100% AWD here in North America; Subaru can. That's a HUGE brand identity benefit.

    If they start offering FWD, or RWD—even on just a few models, that AWD brand identity starts getting watered down. They'll be grouped with Audi, Volvo, etc.—all excellent brands, for sure—but their brand DNA will start to disappear. That would be sad.

    Bob
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Kinda what happened to Saab. They were no longer the "quirky car" once GM homogenized and pasteurized them.

    Oddly enough, they RAN better but that wasn't the point. Also, having a bazillion of them come off lease all at once didn't help the resale value.

    Certainly we've all seen cases of other marques that were stripped of their identity for the sake of increasing market share.
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