All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

ateixeira · May 2010

You mean SoA called you to participate in a survey?

What type of questions did they ask?

Last one I did they were asking about demand for a diesel Forester.

gened1 · May 2010

See post 1061.
Jeff Green of Blumberg News in Detroit MI called and asked a number of questions. In particlular he was looking for recent purchasers of 2010 Subaru's and what owners thought of the new models and why.

saedave · May 2010

SPAM POST!!!!!

gened1 · May 2010

Subaru did offer me an online survey of the Legacy also. The survey asked a number of questions in particular if a 5 year warranty would be something that would make me consider a Subaru and if the 2.5 had more power and torque would that matter and I of course rated these two very highly. it was a pretty long survey.

samiam_68 · May 2010

According to cars101 dot com.

cdndriver · May 2010

I let the Subaru people have an earful about not bringing the Legacy wagon back, (especially since they make it for Europe) and also not putting the PZEV on all models, not just the base one. (In Canada, that's the only choice). I mentioned taking away the folding mirrors with integrated turn signals, the tiny sunroof instead of the bigger one they had, the electronic parking brake.
And just the cheapening of materials.
cdndriver

gened1 · May 2010

My earlier post should have read
Jeff Green, of Bloomberg News.

ateixeira · May 2010

Good news, mostly because it means they are listening to customers.

samiam_68 · May 2010

Yep, good news indeed... Now, if they would only add DI and memory seats...

ateixeira · May 2010

DI first!

Hyundai is taking the lead, all Sonatas now have it.

avery1 · May 2010

What is DI?

ateixeira · May 2010

Direct Injection. Helps economy, power, torque, and emissions. Win-win, if the cost is absorbed.

birdboy · May 2010

my 2010 outback (2,900 miles) has an issue with the steering wheel vibrating and quivering at speeds above 65. I also find the car veers to the right frequently. I have had the tires balanced with no change. I contacted SOA to complain and they arranged for a road force balance adjustment and again no change with the vibration. I think it is harder to steer as a result of this last attempt to fix this . Any information or advice from others out there that are experiencing the same?

bigfrank3 · May 2010

There are several intense threads about this at subaruoutback.org. It has been stated that about 20% of Outbacks sold have the steering wheel shimmy. Some owners have been real "test beds" for some of the tried fixes. Subaru has acknowledged the problem and even bought back some vehicles where none of the fixes have worked. Others have been satisfied with some of the more recent fixes such as steering rack work and bushing kits.

Some owners have had no luck getting their dealer to work with them, and the most successful cases seem to be the ones where the owner got Subaru Customer Service involved early. Since you got SOA involved you will probably be sent down the path of the "steering rack spring", steering rack replacement, then the busing kit which seems to also include new bolts and a shim or 2. The bushings are mostly for the control arms, front and back, but some have had something done to the motor mounts also. Subaru doesn't seem to have a definitive fix yet, but they are sneaking up on it. The RF balance seems to always be the first step.

Good luck!

felixt · May 2010

I've been googling trying to find something that would give the car a little more oomph but haven't been able to find anything.

Anybody have better luck with finding products for extra power?

thanks

priggly · May 2010

Yeah, the fabulous 3.6 engine!

Why bother with the additional complication of either turbocharging or supercharging, not to mention the fact they would not be covered under warranty, when the 3.6 is available??!

marvinlee1 · May 2010

I agree with priggly. The six has no timing belt to worry about plus it eliminates concern about future costly turbocharger replacement. The six is also a bit smoother and quieter. Lets face it Much of our daily driving is trundling about congested roads and streets. For this, the six is an excellent engine. I've averaged more than 24 mpg over 4,000 plus miles of mixed highway and city driving.

80112co · May 2010

Check out Heuberger Motors online.....2.5i Premium with Weather and Sunroof pkg was about $22800. The Limited with the sunroof was about $25,500. They will provide an online quote or you can check out their inventory (which are at prices below your posted quotes).
They are in Colorado Springs but high volume dealer.

80112co · May 2010

I think that it has something to do with the grease used on the nuts or hubs (a guess). I had a 2005 and 2008 Legacy and they had the same issue. Walk thru the used car dealership and you will see the same thing.
Did not have the issue with my '08 Outback though....

mknapp · May 2010

I currently own a 2006 Outback and have seen that I can get about $17,000 from the guaranteed trade in value from Subaru. Has anybody used program this to trade up? Will they deal with the price of the new car if you use the GTV? Just curious because I am tempted to get one of the 2010 Outbacks. :shades:

ateixeira · May 2010

WOW, that's amazing for a residual, especially for a trade-in. I'd jump all over that.

We have an 09 Forester and we're quite happy, but if they offered me $17k 3 years from now I'd hop on that like a bunny rabbit! :surprise:

mknapp · May 2010

Yes, that is what made me consider the possibility since I am happy with my 2006. Of course, I would want to replace my 2006 Limited with at least another Limited. I like the leather and all the little extra touches. I am not sure about a 2010 or a 2011.

My hesitation for the 2010 is getting the color I really want AND the shimmy that I keep reading about. Still undecided....... :confuse:

unsworth · May 2010

Does it feel like you are going over rumble strips? for short periods of time? My new 2010 Outback with 700 miles started doing this at 40-50mph and now at 20-30 mph. Took it back to dealer and said Fix it and I don't want it back until you do! Mine is the 3.6 V6

ateixeira · May 2010

I know it affects some, but not most, plus you could get a 2012 with another round of GTP offers, LOL.

gened1 · May 2010

Does anyone else see the value of keeping the 2010 Legacy reviews up? The 2011 Legacy reviews have taken the place of the 2010 but why can't we have both years represented. 2010's are still being sold and people are still writing reviews and checking the reviews for research. What harm could it have?

rsholland · May 2010

???

The only significant upgrade that I can see are the folding mirrors on the '11 model (if you can call that "significant"). Ohthere's also now a shark fin antenna on the roof for 2011, and a couple of new colors. What's the big deal?

Bob

marvinlee1 · May 2010

The 2010 reviews remain pertinent for buyers of remaining 2010 dealer stock. The 2010 car is so similar to 2011 models, that prospective buyers of 2011 models car obtain valuable insight from reading 2010 reviews. This is only the first half of 2010.

birdboy · May 2010

I have been one of the documented unfortunate Outback owners with a steering wheel vibration and pull to the right at speeds 60 and above. SOA has been showing concern and has attempted to troubleshoot my issues. So far a road force balance and balance was performed with little change. I am happy to share with you that SOA has contacted me again and informed me that a fix for this issue has been developed and will be available for my car late July. I hope that it will indeed fix the issue as I really enjoy this car very much. I am also very happy to learn of the folding mirrors being put back into production for 2011. I will seek to change mine as living in the city it is a needed item.
Thanks all of you for sharing

gened1 · May 2010

Exactly what Marvinlee1 stated plus 2011 reviews won't be available for quite sometime and the 2010 Legacy reviews might just sway people who are contemplating a '10 vs an '11 model. If there are not many changes to the 2011 then one would need to see (research) what others have found about the 5th gen Legacy in general.

mike1944 · June 2010

i've settled on one these two tires as possible replacements of the bridgestone el400's.anyone have any experience and or recommendations/ any change in mpg resulting from a switch to one of these?

knr5 · June 2010

My wife currently drives a 2002 Subaru Outback (MT). It has 88k miles on it and is in a decent condition. I am thinking of replacing it with a 2010 Forester 2.5x Premium or a 2010 Outback 2.5i Premium (both MT). The all-weather package is a 'must' for us. I am currently leaning towards the Forester because it has better visibility, seems more agile, and is less expensive (2 -3 k).

I would appreciate your thoughts on which may be a better buy. Thanks.

priggly · June 2010

The Outback is more upscale, has more room, has a much quieter ride and is less likely to rattle. The sight planes are very good although perhaps not quite so good as the Forester.

That having been said, the Forester is still a commendable vehicle but I would prefer the Outback if I could get one that did not have steering wheel shake. Be careful of that if you decide on the Outback.

saedave · June 2010

The Forester actually has 1/4 inch MORE fore and aft room in the back seat and certainly is easier to park. Folding mirrors are missing on the Outback until the 2011 models arrive. The Outback's bloated look is not to my taste.

I chose a 2010 Forester XT over the 3.6R Outback...I like the narrower width for city streets (and folding mirrors), shorter overall length and better visibility. I didn't mind the lower price and made-in-Japan for potentially better reliability. Be sure not to get the base model Forester with no lumbar support in the driver's seat; I got a bachache with a 30 minute drive.

xwesx · June 2010

I much agree with Dave's opinion.

Either vehicle will give you substantially more passenger room. The appearance, price, and agility of the Forester versus the Outback won out for me, and I had previously owned three Outbacks. The only interior rattle issue I had was the door panels on the driver and passenger doors. That was fixed just last week and was easily noted and repaired by the service technician. So far I have had no lift gate, glove box, or dash rattle issues in this car (a 2010), which is more than I can say for my prior two Outbacks.

The steering is very light and body roll more pronounced in both vehicles as compared to prior generations, but comparing 2010 to 2010, the Forester easily wins in both categories. Being a driver, these are important aspects of the experience for me. That said, the lightness of steering is the one thing about my 2010 Forester that I do not love, but I do tolerate it. It stands in stark contrast to previous Subaru vehicles, which always had very well-balanced steering.

saedave · June 2010

That said, the lightness of steering is the one thing about my 2010 Forester that I do not love, but I do tolerate it. It stands in stark contrast to previous Subaru vehicles, which always had very well-balanced steering.

Wes

If you were my age, you'd appreciate the lighter touch.

The return-to-center action when releasing the wheel is nice in city driving; neither my Legacy or 2005 Outback 3.0R had that feature.

When I test drove a 2010 Outback with CVT I thought I was in a Buick.

Dave

xwesx · June 2010

When I test drove a 2010 Outback with CVT I thought I was in a Buick.

Yeah, me too... that's primarily why I didn't buy it! Oh, and the fact that it is hideously ugly didn't score it any points either.

I don't think that return-to-center has anything to do with the lightness of the steering. I doubt there is any vehicle in the world that could best the action of my 1969 Ford Econoline in that department, and I guarantee you that the steering on that vehicle is anything but light. However, let go of the wheel and it will center itself in a heartbeat (or less depending on your heart rate at the time which, if driving that van, is probably pretty high). :P

ateixeira · June 2010

Forester also has higher residuals, so it will cost you less to own over the long haul.

We had a 98 Forester (loved it) and an 02 Legacy (OK, but can't say we loved it). Wifey owned the Legacy.

When it was time for her to get a new car, I had traded my Forester for a minivan, and she ended up choosing the Forester again. She likes it better than any car we've ever owned before. Won't even let me talk about trading it.

The gas mileage of the CVT would be appealing, and the Outback is a little quieter.

Dunno, though, the Forester just gets my heart pumping more.

xwesx · June 2010

If going for an auto, the better fuel economy of the CVT would certainly be appealing. I think the OP mentioned MT, though. Mine, as well, is MT.

ateixeira · June 2010

In that case the Outback does have a 6 speed vs. the Forester's 5.

birdboy · June 2010

If this helps you, I had the 2009 limited Forester for 1.5 years and did not like it so I traded it for the 2010 outback limited 4cyl cvt. My reasons for the trade were I found the fit and finish of the Forester to be less than expected for the price, too many rattles and squeaks, too much plastic, no passenger seat adjustments and quite a few other issues. Again, all personal preferences. It did ride nicely for the 28k miles that I had it. I also had 3 windshields replaced due to the design angle of the glass and small rocks hitting it.
I have 4K miles on the outback and find a night and day difference. I think the fit and finish as well as attention to details and layout design are much better. I am getting better milage 31 mpg @70mph, 33-35 at 50mpg. I like the cvt transmission. The car overall seems more comfortable and drives very well except for a steering vibration which SOA is almost ready to fix . I also like the redesign and the overall look of the car as well. The exterior and interior colors available, well that is another story! God Luck..either way

jeffm5 · June 2010

Just thought I'd give an update on my 2010 Outback Limited that I bought in Oct. It now has about 9,000 miles on it. (I posted my original impressions on this forum. See nos. 626 & 632.) Overall, I continued to be very satisfied. Ride is smooth & quiet. Acceleration & power are good for a 4 cyl. I've never felt it is underpowered. Fuel economy is outstanding. Around 30 on the highway & 22 in town. Much better than my 2000 & 2004 Foresters. I stll find the driver's seat very confortable, even on long trips, while the passenger's seat sits too low for me. I'm still impressed with the quality of the vehicle. Much improved on the Foresters.

I did have slight vibration in the steering wheel at speeds of about 65+. Nothing major, just annoying. Happy to report that after 1 tire rotation, that has gone. I still feel that the steering is overly assisted. The heating was weak during the winter months & the fan is very loud, except at the lowest speed. However, this is something I can live with. The car does eventually heat up, just not as quickly or efficiently as I would like. I love having the backup camera displayed on the NAV screen, but the NAV alone would not be worth the money for reasons I set out in post 632. Still satisfied with audio system & iPod interface. Bluetooth works well, but the mic in the car is either cheap or poorly designed or both because you sound like you're talking into a tin can when calling hands free.

I've had no reliability problems. However, I did just receive a recall notice for a CVT hose & a "service program information" notice for a possible cracked ABS cover. That work will be done in a couple weeks.

Bottom line, very satisfied & if you're looking for this type of vehicle, I'd recommend.

godeacs · June 2010

Appreciate all the input guys! I'm torn between the Forester (less $) and the Outback (better gas mileage, color options int and ext). Have test driven 4 cyl version of both (love my CVT on my 08 Altima) and both have sufficient acceleration to suit me (passing on/off interstate ramps).

Decisions, decisions..... :confuse:

ktmotox · June 2010

I'm curious as to which of the three different AWD systems for the 2010 Legacy work the best. I'm most interested in the comparison between the one used in the CVT car vs the one in the 3.6 AT car.

2.5i/CVT
Models equipped with Lineartronic CVT utilize an electronically controlled variable transfer clutch to distribute power to where traction is needed. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage, throttle position and braking, to help determine torque distribution and direct it to the wheels with optimum traction.

3.6R/5AT
Models equipped with 5-speed automatic transmission utilize an electronically controlled variable transfer clutch in conjunction with a planetary-type center differential and a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential. Torque distribution is normally configured at a performance-oriented rear-wheel-biased 45/55-split front-to-rear. Sensors monitor parameters such as wheel slippage, throttle position and braking to help determine torque distribution and direct it to the wheels with optimum traction.

ateixeira · June 2010

Summary: both work, but the VTD in the 3.6R might feel sportier with a default rear bias, plus it is capable of sending higher percentages of power to each axle.

saedave · June 2010

but the VTD in the 3.6R might feel sportier with a default rear bias

I would have agreed before I switched from a 2005 3.0R VDC Outback to a 2010 Forester XT recently. Heavy throttle U-turns are much smoother and faster with the XT. I suspect that sportier calibration of the stability control in the XT is a possibility. The Outback actually was dangerously unstable and slow under such conditions....both under damped and too much throttle cutback.

That said, 2010 3.6R models could have a very different stability control calibration. Only test drives will tell.

tgl3 · June 2010

I just purchased a 2011 outback 3.6r. There are rectangular box-shaped cutouts on the side near the seam of the passenger exterior doors. about 3" by 8". Can someone tell me what the deal is on these?

xwesx · June 2010

I suspect you are describing the film-style paint protectors that are applied to the area just in front of the rear wheel arches on the rear passenger doors. This patch is meant to reduce paint damage from road debris (rocks, gravel, sand, etc) kicked up from the front tires. I'm not sure how well it works.... the patches on my 2010 Forester were fairly well torn up after the first winter.

Below is a close-up of the area on my Forester taken last Fall while it was rather dirty. The dirt allows for the line created by the film application to show up quite well....

tgl3 · June 2010

thank you. that must be what it is. on your car they are curved to match the arches. on my car they are located right in that same spot, but are rectangles. also the seam is much more pronounced, they actually stick out. But close enough to your description that it must be what they are intended for. thank for this.

frenchguy007 · June 2010

Just put my first 1,000km (Canadian car) on my Subie. First impressions are;

Pros.
great drive and great style, very comfortable seats and car looks more upscale than many in its class.

Cons.
Bluetooth through one speaker in the middle console looks and sounds cheap. I have what is almost a top of the line model and have found out that my satellite antenna is not on the roof as per most cars but glued to the inside windshield (top passenger side), again, this looks really cheap in a almost top of the line model. There is no "push button" start available.

This is a great car and I am sure I am going to love driving it (great handling), however there are a couple of quirks that need attention, if Subaru wants to be a global premium brand (as they say on their website) then they need to get serious about the details.

ateixeira · June 2010

Everyone calls themselves premium. Heck, Suzuki pitches the Kizashi as a luxury performance sedan. Seriously. It doesn't even offer a V6 or a turbo.

Subaru's true upscale march came in 2005-2006 and failed miserably (look at Tribeca sales). Everyone balked at the prices. Sales really took off in 2009 when the Forester arrived with value pricing (and a little de-contenting to be honest).

All-New 2010 Legacy/Outback

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