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Comments
I experienced this once and had to make a run to junk yard to get the mirror and housing replaced or I cannot pass the yearly inspection.
gregg_vw: Is this your opinion or are you trying to pass this off as fact? Where is the data to support that few Americans care about folding mirrors?
When I first saw the new Outback at the NY Auto Show in April, I was so disenchanted with the lack of folding mirrors that I almost considered it a deal breaker. As I walked down the streets of NY City after the show, I was cognizant of all the cars that were parked along the busy streets that had their mirrors folded. I would say that 75% of the cars were parked with their mirrors folded. And the ones that didn't were either clunkers, had fixed mirrors, or the mirrors were already broken off!
Additionally, I live in the suburbs and have a decent sized two-car garage. But I have lots of stuff stored in the back, like my mountain bikes. It is a regular practice of mine to fold the mirrors so that I can squeeze past my Forester while carrying my bike over my head.
In the end, I decided it wasn't a deal breaker and I bought an Outback, but now I have to begrudgingly get used to not having that very useful feature.
I recognize that Subaru deleted them as a cost savings measure to be competitive with all the other mid-size cars that don't have folding mirrors, but I hope they consider the lash-back from loyal customers and re-add them in the mid-cycle refresh.
Elliot
My point with the NYC example is that large cities comprise a large % of the U.S. population, so a LOT of Subaru's market will care about it in that case. You really shouldn't dismiss cities so fast.
My point in my suburban garage example is that a LOT of people who don't live in big cities also care about this.
If you've been reading the Outback/Legacy message boards here and on other places like NASIOC for a while, you'd see that the lack of folding mirrors are probably in the top 3 most cited complaints of the new models.
Peace out,
Elliot
I wouldn't be surprised to see folding mirrors in 2 or 3 years as part of a mid-cycle refresh.
So when the cost-cutting police start yelling about it, they have 2 things to complain about.
I care because one side of my car port is a bit more narrow than the other, and we've hit the mirror a couple of times (with no damage done - they break away).
I also parallel park in DC once in a while and even in my garage at work, so it sticks out and is more vulnerable.
Sums it up well.
We had a discussion in the Cafe, or what is Meet the Members? The people who run it left out a clause that would not allow them to make certain offenders exempt from paying. Do as I say, not as I do.
The pleasure of a vehicle that is just the right size.
The old Honda Accord wagons were very sweet that way.
The Buick Roadmaster, not so much.
-Mathias
As far as the folding mirrors go, have you ever pulled into a drive-in ATM or teller and noticed all of the paint that has been scraped off the mirrors of cars that pull in too close to the protective stanchions? When we have to get close, we just fold the driver's mirror and have no problems and no scratches on the mirror!
Subaru, and other manufacturers, should just have the folding mirrors as standard equipment.
1. Leg room: Fantastic improvement, but this has nothing to do with being a wagon or SUV
2. Ground Clearance: 8.7", versus the previous version's 8.5" - not much difference and nothing to do with the wagon departure yet. Approach/departure angles are still poor, so that continues to limit off-road capability. Both versions of the Outback are higher than the Legacy, but then that is why there was once a Legacy and an Outback.
3. Fuel efficiency / power: Yes, but again, nothing to do with the body style.
4. Quieter with framed windows. Haha. Okay. Do heavier doors make them quieter?
5. Stow-away cross bars - great idea, even though they do have some limitations.
6. Lower RPM power delivery - again, that's good but unrelated to body style.
Nostalgia? Perhaps a little; after all, if this was a new model rather than a replacement for the wagon, it would be a non-issue. We know what there was and miss it. But, more than that, it is about handling, versatility, and driving experience. Not everyone likes the direction Subaru has taken with their new Outback or the Legacy lineup in general. Even though many of the points you illustrated are valid, those changes did not necessitate the move to an SUV.
I do hope this new Outback is wildly popular; if so, I think it will facilitate the phase-out of the Tribeca and also provide room in the lineup for a wagon. The Legacy and the Outback are more divergent than ever before; I think that parting of ways will continue.
2. My currently Outback has a Subaru-installed sunroof. It closes automatically when I turn off the motor-as it should. I was offered a test drive of the 2010 until it was discovered that the prior test driver didn't close the sun/moonroof and it had rained inside the car. It's ridiculous to have a roof window that doesn't close automatically. I can guarantee it will be left open many times when drivers exit quickly.
3. Ah yes, the elimination of the folding side mirrors. As you all have said, another totally dumb idea. No new Outback for me this year!
I can only hope to hold on to my current car until there's an appropriate model available from someone in the future! ">
Was your moonroof dealer-installed? I had one like that - you could program it to close automatically, but it was not factory OE.
Researching the Continental ContiPro Contacts on TireRack.com and other places, it seems that it is a rather mediocre Grand Touring All Season tire. There's actually an eclectic mix of people that love them and others that hate them, and conflicting road tests that put them at #2 with the other rating them dead last.
So I'm on the fence as to whether they really are OK tires. So I'd like to get some feedback from current owners on the following:
1) How do you like the Contis? Are they quiet? How about on concrete highways or on wet roads? Nicely muted or lots of whooshing?
2) What about the handling and the road feel? Do they make the Outback fun to drive or is it just an appliance now? I've read in many reviews that the Outback has numb on-center feel. I wonder if it's the tires.
3) Has anyone replaced them upon delivery or even after a few hundred miles due to dissatisfaction? What did you replace them with? How much of an improvement did you notice? (I saw the one thread where the owner replaced with the Goodyear TripleTred, but they've been consistently rated as noisy, so I'm avoiding that.)
Thanks!
Elliot
While I knew that it does not have a 3D view, I was disappointed to find out it does it offer text-to-speech for street names. And while I knew it locked out some functions while driving, I am learning that it locks out almost everything (supposedly even changing playlists from an iPod). And even worse, I understand it even locks out some of the functions of the voice activation.
So here are my questions...
1) Can any current owners who are using the system provide a review of the system? Likes and dislikes? Tips and tricks? Pro/con comparisons to handhelds like Garmin?
2) Please expound on what is locked out when driving. To what extent can you program it using the voice activation while driving? Does it understand free text like addresses and street names or does it just have a fixed vocabulary? Can you do things like change albums for music on a USB stick while driving? Does it show album art?
3) Has anyone found a source or technique for hacking or unlocking the lockouts while driving? There are many stores on the Internet that sell plug-and-play harnesses for doing just this, but I haven't found anything for the Outback?Legacy. I recently contacted www.CoastalEtech.com who specializes in Toyota overrides and others, and they said they have no current plans to support Subaru but could in the future. I understand that the Subaru software is very similar to Toyota's, so I'm hopefully something will come out soon.
Thanks!
Elliot
1. The Outback has lost its "fun to drive" element with the new design. I actually received a 2009 Legacy 4-cyl as a rental car last weekend... I found it a much better experience than the CVT and averaged 31MPG. I guess I just don't like the engine revving of the new 4-cyl.
2. Although the Subaru, even the 3.6R, is a lower cost vehicle than my current Acura MDX, The mileage does not really improve much. I am concerned that gas will eventually head back up and want my next car to be "fuel efficient".
3. Subaru continues to be behind in its technology offering... no keyless drive (available on Toyota, Nissan, etc... not just luxury brands), poorly functioning Nav, integrated media, etc.
4. Front seat support & comfort... I just prefer the offering of the luxury brands in this area. As I age, this becomes of greater importance.
5. Resale value... as the gap between the bottom and upper end of the Subaru range continues to increase, I worry about resale of the 3.6R Limited. Back in 2007, I only saw average return on my '05 Outback 3.0 VDC, which is one of the reasons that I went back to the Acura.
Don't get me wrong, the Subaru Outback is a great VALUE. I am just looking for some additional capabilities and am willing to pay for them. Back in 2004, when I purchased my 2005 Outback 3.0R VDC, Subaru and the European Sportwagons really offered a similar product, with the Subaru costing thousands less. Now the product offering and ammenities have split significantly. Clearly Subaru is out of the business of "playing" on the edge of the luxury sportwagon market.
A comment on the Volvo Nav System... Volvo has done a nice job working with Garmin to develop a dealer installed portable Nav system. The Volvo Garmin Nuvi installs to a permanent bracket to the center channel speaker grill on the dash. It uses the car's electrical system for power and an installed antenna and drive sensor for better reception and dead-reckoning capabilities. This is one of Garmins top of the line models. Volvo has tested this product and installation for viewing safety and ergonomics and even includes Garmin Traffic and Weather Service for the life of the GPS. This Volvo Garmin Nuvi GPS costs about $850 installed. About $300 more than the same true portable model and $1500 less than the Volvo factory installed option, which is not as advanced as other manufacturers. If you purchase a separte charger and mount, the Volvo Garmin Nuvi device can also be portable. Volvo may have hit the mark with this product concept, blancing the "installed" positives of factory and costs/flexibility of portable. Perhaps Subaru will develop such a concept sometime.
Anyway, I am still a Subaru owner at heart and really wanted the chance to own another Subie. Not to fear though... I am a high-mileage driver and replace cars every 2-3 years. Hopefully next time, Subaru will have caught up with the masses with technological options and will offer a diesel in the US market.
Enjoy your new Subaru!
"... I have made the decision to purchase a 2010 Volvo V50 R Design over the 2010 Outback 3.6R. ..."
I have been considering a 2010 Legacy 3.6R, and the OEM tire is the Bridgestone Turanza EL400...a very poorly rated tire.
I would have no issues with the Conti model on the Outback, and wish they used that tire on the Legacy 3.6R.
First, the car looks better in person than in pictures, although the grille isn't very attractive. So I have no real problems with the look, though as others have mentioned, I do tend to have an affinity to a more wagon-type design. This car really straddles the fence between wagon & suv, seeming a little more suv-like to me. I checked out the interior in the showroom, and was actually quite impressed with the general quality of interior materials and design. There is a good deal of storage & cupholders, comfortable seats (though the seat-bottom may be a little short for taller drivers), plenty of room in the back seat, and behind the seats. It is wider than my 4Runner, with more legroom, shoulder room, and headroom. It's probably just a bit shorter though, mostly noticed behind the rear seats.
Somebody mentioned earlier about it being hard to see out the rear window. Yeah, I see what they mean (rear headrests interfere, and the rear window isn't that big), but it's not that big a deal to me personally. As for the window tint, yes it is dark, but I think it's OK -- gives good privacy and blocking of sunlight. I drove it on a dark, rainy day and saw no problem with it. However, there are a couple of things that I did not like at all. First, the sunroof is soooo TINY! Honestly, what's the point in having one if it's the size of a mail slot? The Forrester's sunroof on the other hand is huge (which I much prefer). Second, those mirrors not being break-aways is so stupid. I pretty much expect to see that on every car & truck nowadays, except for perhaps the cheapest economy cars. There is no excuse for that and it really bothers me because I use that function on all my cars quite frequently. I like to fold them when driving up to an ATM, a mailbox....any drive-up kind of thing, and also when parking in my carport, to give a little extra room and protect them. I've lost a mirror before when a friend backed my Civic out of a garage and snapped off the mirror. That is NOT something I ever want to worry about again.
Now for the actual test drive. I drove approx 5 miles on winding and mostly smooth 2-lanes (no highway driving). I was concerned if the 4cyl/CVT combo would offer enough performance. Well, I'm happy to say, yes, I think the performance is totally acceptable, including both acceleration & handling (but remember I'm comparing to a truck-based sport-ute, so I would expect it to be better. Now, it doesn't handle like my Mazda Protege5 to be sure, however, for what it is I felt it handled the rain-soaked curves of a winding road (speeds of 35-60mph) just fine. It always felt secure to me. And I have to admit, I really liked using the "manual" mode paddle shifters, too. Now, my one beef with the car that really surprised me was the thrash of the engine at 4,000+ rpm. Wow, this thing can get loud, yet with normal cruising/driving, it seems quite refined. But mash the pedal a bit and raise the rpms, and suddenly this thing seems a bit cut-rate. Maybe that's just the nature of that engine, but that really surprised me. My 4Runner is quieter (though it's not quiet either). So if you drive an Outback gently, it will sound just fine, but it suffers from split-personality at higher rpms and that noise enters the cabin in a big way, drowning out any kind of road or tire noise (there wasn't much of that though).
One last thing. After looking over the interior closely, I asked to look at the Forester interior. I compared the Outback Premium (cloth) to a Forester Limited (leather). I have to say, I thought the Forester's materials looked inferior to the Outback. Not that it was bad, but it just didn't measure up to the Outback. Also, the Forester felt a little narrower/tighter than the Outback, though it had tons of head room and excellent visibility. I did not test drive the Forester for comparison though.
I guess my final thoughts are that this is an attractive enough vehicle outside. The interior is very nice (I'm not into techno-gadgets etc, so can't answer to that part). The performance is pretty much what I'd expect from this type of vehicle, even a bit better than anticipated. The price is competitive. The econmy (22/29) for the 4cyl/CVT is excellent, especially considering the AWD. I was just let down by the lack of refinement in the drivetrain at middling and high RPMs, in addition to an inferior-sized sunroof (very important to me), and lack of break-away mirrors that should absolutely be standard. I'll have to test drive more competitors over the coming months to see how they stack up. I'm in no hurry to replace my 4Runner, but at nearly 170k, I suppose in time it will be necessary, plus I really want a more car-like ride again while keeping the utility of the vehicle. The Outback is still in the running at this time.
First I drove a 2.5i Outback Limited. I was expecting too much
drive train noise, but it didn't really bother me that much, not
coming from a quiet luxury car. You could hear the whir of the
CVT sometimes, but the engine covered it much of the time. I
was expecting a lack of power, but it wasn't really struggling.
Coming from a WRX, I was expecting to be underwhelmed. But what
car with the passenger space of the Outback drives like a WRX?
I used the paddle shifters with the car in "D". They do "shift"
in D and are useful for passing. The car took itself back to D
eventually. I didn't use them much in "M", so I'm not sure what
the difference is.
Then I drove a 3.6R Outback Premium. (I want a Limited, but at
this point, I just wanted to try the other power train.) As I
turned out of the lot I knew I liked it better. The power and
noise were nicely improved. 'nuff said. The 2.5i is out of
the running.
Then I drove the Legacy GT Premium. I really like a stick shift.
It is "notchy" and not as smooth as some, but still more fun than
an automatic. I'd probably like it just as much with the H6. (I
don't know why they have both the H6 and the turbo, with similar
HP and torque.) I also liked the handling better, though I'm not
sure why. Is it just the lower stance, or is the suspension
different?
If there was an Outback Limited (or better, a Legacy Wagon --
just remove the cladding and the clearance) with the stick and
the H6 or turbo, I'd have an easy choice.
As it is, it's Utility vs. Fun. For me, the pros & cons of a
Legacy GT Limited vs the 3.6R Outback Limited are:
Pro: Fun to drive.
Con: Premium gas, less rear headroom, less cargo space,
no hatch, no roof rack
How many times a year do we *need* the utility of the wagon?
How many times is enough to buy Utility instead of Fun?
I'm 6'5" and severely headroom challenged. The Outback &
Legacy are standouts in headroom, especially in the higher
trim levels, thanks to the option of not getting a sunroof.
We need good rear legroom, too, for a rear facing car seat.
I was having trouble finding leather & Limited-like-trim
with our space requirements. I had given up on a stick and
fun-to-drive.
Hmmm.
That stuff sells. That is why the Legacy wagon (whose body looks exactly like the Outback, but only a bit lower on its suspension) is no longer sold here. Americans like the tall look in wagons, CUVs and SUVs. But the OB is still a Legacy wagon raised up a bit. It is not an SUV. Neither was the Audi allroad (but most people were not fooled by Audi's attempt to simulate an SUV). :P
New tires should, if properly balanced, also not shimmy.
The most likely problem is that your wheel balance is askew. Have this checked and it will likely solve your problem.
From what I understand the Equinox is much improved over previous iterations. I am not sure the AWD component is as good as the Subaru's, however.
Anyone have any insight into this?
I'd say it's about half way between a WRX wagon and an Outback, in size and performance.
We took one from DC to NY and back, a road trip a couple of years ago. It was a turbo with a stick. It wasn't nearly as quick as Bob's WRX, which I've driven, but not lacking in any way.
My disappointment with the V50 was road noise. I sat in the back of the wagon (there were 3 of us) and it just wasn't very comfortable for the 5 hour drive, I was begging to get out by the end of it.
Headroom in the V50 is much, much better than the S40, which I found sorta cramped.
They may have improved the sound insulation and I'm sure it has more power today than it did a couple of years ago, but just look for that when you're on a test drive.
I like the styling and I'm curious to take a look at one, but I haven't driven it yet. The EPA highway rating is appealing, for sure, though car mags haven't been getting overall mileage that stands out.
I did drive the Saturn Vue, based on the same platform, and what I didn't like was the numb steering. My Toyota Sienna is bad, but the Vue was worse. Like operating a video game steering wheel.
I'll definitely check one out at the next auto show I attend. It's attractively styled, unlike the GMC clone, which is frighteningly ugly.
I still very much wish that the Subaru had worked for me, but their business model and my needs seem to have headed in different directions. For the masses, I agree that the new Outback model is most likely the right choice, and you certainly cannot build a "luxury" vehicle today for $30K. Thus, Subaru has decided to focus on price and utility. I cannot say that I blame them.
Despite my final purchase choice, I can completely understand why those on this board love Subaru and the 2010 Outback. It is just not the best for me at this time.
We have driven both 2010 Forester & Outback & could live with either, but are leaning heavily toward OB for increased comfort, room, & mpg. I realize that the OB is bigger & I will be trading some nimbleness for comfort. One other thing - I tow a 2000 lb boat occasionally - only 100 - 1000 miles/ year. The O4 Forester has handled the job well. My only hesitancy regarding the OB is a small concern that perhaps the CVT will not do as well towing.
Before making the final decision I would like to ask a question: Anyone here feel like they should shout "NO, DON'T DO IT, YOU'LL BE SORRY!"
Thanks for all the good information & comarderie I always find here.
The CVT is used by Nissan in the heavier Murano, so I don't see a problem with towing a light load like yours.
Go for it.
Bob
On that subject, does everyone feel the Xenon HID lights would be an improvement on this vehicle or are the halogens which come on the car now adequate?
For this reason, I have no desire for HID's and am personally overjoyed they're not on the new Outback.
The halogens on my Outback are perfectly adequate at legal highway cruising speeds. However at100+ mph speeds through the Dakotas I found seeing a deer far ahead standing at the side of the road with zenons on my W8 Passat was literally a life saver.
But how much extra are you willing to pay for the zenons? And I suspect collision and theft insurance rates are escalated too.
:surprise: So.... at the risk of sounding like a total snob, wouldn't the real life saver be, oh I dunno... to not drive 100+ MPH in darkness??? OMG, WTF? :confuse:
Go for it.
The HID vs. halogen debate will continue forever. I've seen good and bad samples of both.
The HIDs on the Audi TT are lousy. Many are quite good, though.
Same with halogens. The lights on our 2002 Legacy were very weak, yet I've owned 2 Forester and the lighting was excellent on both, particularly my 98 model. Dodge Intrepids also had very poor lights (rental).
So it's not just the type of lighting, but also the optics, i.e. the shape of the lens, that matters.
Plus some of them don't come set correctly from the factory, and the setting and the lens angles may need to be fine-tuned a bit.