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Comments
I thought the spread was actually 30"? :confuse:
October sales are out - Outback outsold the Forester for the first time in years. Both are way up, though.
But, for people who want to mount their own crossbars (and leave the stock rack in its "stowed" position), the exposed length of the stowed bars is only about 21" or so. (This is if you were wanting to mount your own cross bars to the stowed bars, using them as the rails.)
If you look at the design of the stock 2010 rails, they could have positioned the rails such that they were farther apart than 30" in the crossed position. I don't know why the designers thought that a 30" spacing was optimal.
Yes, I think you're right. In order to have the start and end points of the two rails line up, the geometry of the pivoting racks leads to a 30" front to back spacing.
On the other hand, since only part of the stowed rail is exposed/visible from the side, you'd hardly notice if the end points were staggered a bit to increase the rail spacing.
Who knows, maybe they were also worried about having them too far apart for some purposes....
From the article:
"Bad news now–the crossbar spread for the above options are an almost pointless 21″–less than you will need for boards or boats over 8′, and too narrow for any cargo baskets or boxes."
Still, even with a 30" spread, I think this rack is a major step back for Subaru, and a major eyesore on an otherwise appealing car. What's more, this big plastic rack HAS to cost them more to make than the old rails, which were more practical.
Brian
There's always the Forester.
One of the service guys told me they had a seminar with company reps and after driving them for an hour, they had a big meeting. He said the service guys blasted the reps about the things we've been talking about. And they really hated the electronic E-brake. (apparently, if your battery dies, you have to stick some lever under the car to release the brake). That sounds safe! :surprise:
Anyway, I was looking at the Forester. To equip it close to what my wagon has, I'd need the Touring package, which brings the cost above what my Legacy was when I leased it. Around: 30 grand.
I'm not sure if I'll do it.
I'm also looking at the Volvo V50, and the Saab 9-3 wagon, though they're more, and really hard to find here. GM Canada isn't bringing any more in since they're selling the division.(which doesn't particularly inspire confidence).
so I'm not sure what to do. I asked about finding an 090 Legacy wagon, but the guy said there aren't many and they wouldn't lease one anyway.
so it's back to the research.....
cdndriver...
I think Subie really burned a lot of people on this one.
We recently had the chance to drive one, together with many competing products, with the intent to replace our Jeep Cherokee Limited (4.7v8) and were very impressed.
We have had bad experience with other high end intelligent AWD systems (FX-45) and this vehicle seemed a good compromise.
Any comments out there on owning a 2010 model?
OK, if you want a moan; the exterior color, wheel and headlight options are dummer than a 1st year marketing person on their first day might choose, but if we try and and get past that ....
What's the vote?
Thanks
BG
Based on Novembers Consumer Reports results & Tire Racks owners surveys, the Michelin Primacy MXV4 appears to be superior to the any other tires for my driving needs. It appears to simply has the best balance of any AS tires including superior ice braking & low. Goodyear Triple Treads sound good, but not equal to the MXV4. The only hang up is that the Primacy MXV4 does not come in a 17" 60 series.
The overall diameter difference between the Michelin 235/55 -17 tire & the Conti OEM 225/60-17 is 0.4" (27.6" for 60 series & 27.4" for 55 series) or 1.4%. The difference between section width is 0.3" of 3.1%. The difference in revolutions / mile is only 11 or 1.4%.
I assume that the fitment of the 55 series on the 2010 OB is very unlikely to pose any problems given that the tread depth is over 0.3" so that there will be that much varience in the wear anyway. Since the Michelin has lower rolling resistance I assume that any loss of mpg due to the slightly smaller size will be made up in the reduced rolling resistance. Perhaps the ride may be slightly firmer due to the shorter side wall of the 55 series tire, but at the trade off of slightly better handling.
All that said I can't see a downside to going to the 235/55 tire Michelin which appears to be the best all around performance all season; and should not present any problems for my 2010 OB.
Am I missing anything here?
youll love it
ok itsnot perfect find me a car that is
but its a subi and you will like the awd its good
the inproved leg room is a long time coming and totally awesome now
i love the cvt tranny so far and although i have the legacy 2010 its the same engine as the outback
i am getting 27 mpg combined now thats a heck or alot better than many and although its not a race car when you push the peddle it goes and dont forget you can use the paddle shifters also
its pretty quiet ecept in morning when warming up but that is a characerisitc of the boxer engine
it is smooth nice little details and so far after 2 thousand miles trouble free and hope it stay that way for many miles
the radio controls and heat controls seem not big enough or out enough from the system so sometimes my fingers stumle on them (lol) but its fine
the pwer seats very nice
color choices nice but the tan interior is not for me so it limited my choices
trunk large but opening very small
ride very nice
handling good
acceleration nice
features pretty nice
standard sterio nice (much better thaan old subi's)
heated seats nice
console nice
glove box big
storage nice
xtyle i personally thing the legacy is beatiful although it looks like some it has a little diffrence and i like it blends in but looks nice
headlights very bright
heat and ac very good and the heat gets hotttttttttt
gas milleage exceptional for power and awd and compared to others
im doing better than my neighbor with a camary come on now that says something
dont be afraid only thing i feel bad about is not buying american but then again the equinox i had was asslembled in mexico and i think the engine was korean or or soemthing like that
we didnt screw gm they did
anyway i think most will enjoy the new subi's i am! :shades:
cdndriver
we didnt screw gm they did
isn't an IN made Legacy/OB 65% US parts?
That difference is not going to overly affect your car's driving characteristics. At 1.4%, you are still within the practical range of 2% before you may start noticing your speedometer being off, etc. Over the course of 36,000 miles, your odometer will note ~500 miles more than you actually drove.
Just makes sure that you have the strut clearance to mount the 235s. Sometimes that clearance is very tight even at the factory size. It is odd that you cannot get a 60-series. Does Michelin not make them, or the place you are looking to buy just does not have them? If the latter, I would order them and wait.
Pros - Very smooth ride on all but the roughest roads. Quiet ride on most roads. Sufficient power to pass, go up hills, etc. Comfortable driver's seat. Same with back seat. Like the sun visor extenders. Got the NAV with backup camera. Really like the backup camera. Good visibility all around with that. The OB is a much more substantial car that the Foresters. By that I mean, more solid, more power. The CVT is great. We got 29.5 mph on mostly highway driving at about 65 mph on the way out & 27 on the way back with more stop and go driving. These figures were computed by me, independant of what the car read out was showing. BTW, the car read out showed we were getting about 4 mph better than we really were. Great crusing range in this car. 442 miles on the way out with about 3.5 gals. left in the tank. Quality and looks of the interior are very good.
Cons - (I'm looking now with a critical eye.) Sloppy steering feel at highway speeds. By this I mean, overly assisted. The front passengers seat sits too low for me. Can not be adjusted for height. Limited rear visibility without the backup camera. My Foresters had more and bigger places for storeage. When no one is in the passengers seat, that seat belt tends to bang against the plastic door frame. (This is easily corrected by wrapping the seat belt around the seat). Choppy ride on rough roads. Cold air leaking on the passenger's side feet. Wish it had a full size spare. Owner's manual says you can't use the compact spare on the front of the car. So, if you get a flat in front, you have to move one of the rear tires to the front & put the spare on the rear. I also wish it had memory seats & push button start.
Again, very happy with the car. I'll post my impressions of the NAV system, bluetooth, audio system if anyone is interested. Let me know.
WTF!! That's crazy! I've never heard of any other vehicle having that restriction. Sounds like a lawyer got involved to avoid any and all liability issues.
I have heard of that restriction before; not sure the reason for it, however. I wonder if other AWD vehicles from other brands also have this restriction?
Bob
Going to look at a '10 this afternoon, similar package except this one has the "Homelink", cargo net and a few other small items. Seller is asking $24,000, local dealers have several outfitted like this on their lots for $27,600. I don't know if anyone will see this and reply in time but looking for a bit of guidance here. I'm biologically disinclined to offer full price for anything.
BTW, these are equipped just the way I would want them and both colors were on my short list.
Thanks in advance.
easypar
Thanks.
I've never had an in dash NAV before, but I've had 2 Magellin units, so I am somewhat experienced in using a NAV. My biggest complaint is that the manual for these systems is poorly writer & not as informative as I need. First off, the print font is tiny & is light gray. What's up with that.? I have 60 yr. old eyes. The screen is big & the contrast & brightness can be adjusted, as can the sound level. So it's easy to see where you are. You can view the map in a north up direction or the car can always be moving in an up direction with the view turning as you turn. There are tons of points of interest icons that appear on the screen, but I'm having a hard time finding out how to eliminate some of them because they clutter the screen. The system comes with 4 DVD's & you have to load the proper one, depending on what part of the country you are in. Getting access to the slot you have to load the DVD into is a pain. Can someone tell me why this system couldn't operate like the portable NAV's, meaning no DVD's necessary? Some of the functions of the NAV are disabled while the car is moving, so your passenger can't enter an address on the fly. The names of most of the streets you are turning onto are not announced. I believe this is called "text to speech". If I can get this on most portable systems, why is it not on this one? The street name you are turning onto is displayed on the screen & this helps. The voice recognition system works about half the time. By that I mean, it recognizes my commands about half the time. As I mentioned in a previous post ,I got a backup camera, which is great, but you had to have the NAV to get the camera. IMHO, the NAV alone is not worth the money, I'd stick with a top notch portable. I'm hoping that I'll become more satisified with the NAV as I use it.
The Audio system is good. It's displayed very clearly on the NAV screen. Radio stations are easy to set. Sound quality is good. It's easy to adjust the balance & fader, but the equalizer is another matter. It's like no other equalizer I've ever seen and the manual is of no help. I use my iPod thru a USB port in the console. It's frozen up on me a couple of times, but this may be a glitch in my iPod. Again, some of the iPod functions are unavailable if you're moving. Other than that, it's great.
My wife & I have 2 different types of Motorola phones. Both go to bluetooth in the car easily & flawlessly. Again, the voice recognition is hit and miss & the sound level to folks on the other end is a little weak. Not sure where the micraphone is and again the manual is of no help. Does anyone know where it's at?
Hope this is informative.
Look up on the ceiling, near the map lights. That's where it is on Foresters, and I would assume it to be the same on your car.
Bob
Ok, Brainiac, what's the procedure to replace a blown front tire with the assets that Subaru gives you? The recommended jack up points are only good for raising a corner and not the whole side of the car. If you jack up the affected front corner and remove the flat tire you'll then have to lower that corner down on to the payment without a wheel for support in order to then move the jack to raise a rear corner - a big no-no if you don't want to damage your front wheel brake assembly which is not designed to support the weight of the car. The problem stems from Subaru supplying a spare tire that has placement restrictions or for not providing a jacking procedure which could safely lift an entire side of the car to facilitate a wheel swap.
The equalizer is a 4-band parametric equalizer. Actually pretty powerful. The center frequency can be set for each of the 4 bands. The decibel boost is how much louder or softer you are boosting that frequency from nominal. The "Q" value sets the spread of the boost above and below the center frequency for each of the 4 bands. Think of a bell-curve getting fatter or skinnier. So, for example, if you have the first band set for 120 Hz with a +3db boost, increasing the Q-value will increase the spread of the +3db boost further up and down the frequency spectrum from 120Hz -- a higher Q value will boost 60Hz more than a lower value when the center point is at 120 hz.
I don't know if anyone who has professionally calibrated the system, so you need to play around with what sounds good to you.
"Not sure where the microphone is and again the manual is of no help. Does anyone know where it's at? "
Look at the CD/DVD slot -- there's a little tiny grille just to the left of it. That's the mic. Not to be mistaken for the slightly larger grille behind the ignition key on the console for measuring the air temp for the climate control.
Interesting, prior Subaru system have had 2, East and West basically.
For updates, if you only want your region, you could sell the other 3.
I'm glad to see these keep getting better, but until prices come down, or they improve even more, I'm sticking with portables.
I keep a full-size spare at home for such problems. That doesn't help me if I get a flat on a long trip, but most driving is close to home, so maybe some day, it might help. The real fault is that carmakers don't provide the room to carry a full-size spare, or allow it as an option.
You have to wonder about the cars seen speeding down the highway at 80 with limited service spares...
I did that for our 2002 Legacy. Ironically, it's only car my wife ever owned that never got a flat.
She's even had flats while driving my car!
Still, the rim was free (we bought alloys so I have 4 spares), and the tire was just $80 or so.
Caveat - see if it will fit first. You remove the styrofoam stuff, and try to cram in the full-sizer. The Outback always had bigger and wider tires than the Legacy, so who knows.
I think this is like trying to take the fox, the chicken and the milkmaid across the river, isn't it?
Granted Subaru botched this but the answer is in looking at the problem from the other end;
FIRST, jack up the rear, take the rear tire off and put the "donut" spare on the rear.
SECOND, lower the rear and put the (former) rear tire on the front, replacing the flat front.
THIRD, lower the front and put the flat in the trunk.
FOURTH, go to your closest/favorite tire service center.
Flat tires rate pretty low on my "driving worries" category. Back when I was working and driving 50,000+ miles a year I routinely had a flat (on the road) about every 18 months to 2 years. For the last 7 years I've been retired and drive about 12,000 miles a year. I had one flat (about 2 weeks ago), picked up a pretty good size nail (about a 12d) and the tire went flat in front of my house and screwed the sidewall so badly it was unreparable.
I put the donut on the car, through the flat in the back of the wife's car and drove it to Discount Tire.
easypar
One note of caution is to be CERTAIN to engage the emergency brake before doing this and to also block the tires if the ground is not essentially flat. With one side of both axles off the ground, the car will easily roll otherwise.
Now that I think about it, though, I have always used the jack from the '96 to do this, so I don't know if Subaru has changed its jack since then. I doubt it (great design!), but who knows.... after all, they managed to come up with that new gimmicky roof rail! The under-rail hasn't changed.
I have a 2010 Outback Ltd 3.6R with navigation. Just passed 1,000 miles and 5 weeks of ownership. While I do experience the 2 prevalent design issues with the 3.6R (hesitation from a rolling start and slight steering wheel shimmy above 65 MPH), I am pleased that I've experienced no initial defects with the workmanship or electronics.
However, that said, I am starting to suspect that I may have something wrong with my Bluetooth phone audio....
Callers coming out of my speakers are loud and crystal clear -- like they are sitting next to me, even louder. Similarly, streaming stereo Bluetooth audio is perfect and clear too.
But... the callers on the receiving end of my calls are constantly complaining that I sound horrible. They are just barely able to understand me but really do not desire to talk to me for very long in this fashion.
I've done several sample calls with my wife driving and me listening at home and it is terrible. She sounds like she is talking underwater, and there is a constant digital clipping sound as she talks, like the analog to digital conversion isn't keeping up. Leaning closer to the microphone only helps slightly.
On the plus side, the system does a great job filtering out road noise, but it appears to be way overagressive and severely affecting voice quality.
I've tested this with both my phone and my wife's phone. Both are Motorola smartphones, but different models and on different carriers (Verizon and AT&T). I've also tested turning down the incoming volume to 1 in case it is causing feedback.
I'd love to get feedback from this forum if anyone else has experienced complaints from the people you are calling with respect to the outbound sound quality.
Please identify if you are using the navigation's Bluetooth, the H/K radio Bluetooth, or the BlueConnect when responding. I'm particularly interested in those with the navigation, but am curious if there are differences between the systems.
Thanks,
Elliot
Bob
Shop around. I think you will find that the visibility isn't as bad as you think, especially if you have the seat adjusted up a little. The slope off of the hood isn't anywhere nearly as bad as most non-crossovers; it's practically flat until the end. Don't even get me started on minivans where you can't see anything past the windshield wipers.
And the D-Pillars are turned mostly perpendicular to the rear window, making the rear window quite wide with minimal rear view hinderence. There's plenty of glass on the side in front of the D-pillar too, unlike stylized cars like the Nissan Rogue or Murano that make you feel like you're in a closed-in cave.
I came from an 03 Forester which was like a glass fishbowl and I don't feel like I have any less usable visibility in the new Outback.
That said, the rear camera is super nice and my #1 favorite new feature.
Happy shopping and good luck finding what works for you.
Elliot
I find that a thoughtful walk-around of an unfamiliar vehicle prior to driving it the first time is sufficient to note the vehicle's dimensions and its relation to my perspective from the driver's seat. As such, I am comfortable to within six inches or less of other objects.
My first vehicle was an old cargo van with no windows other than the front doors and the windshield. I sure enjoyed close-quarters driving in that thing, aside from the lack of power steering.
I agree with you on backup cameras; while I do not think they are a necessary feature, they sure are nice.
Since we now live in the front range of Colorado I tried to explain to her that the 85 Octane that we've been putting in our Maxima and Lexus for 2 years is the equivalent of 87, just adjusted for altitude! I may just go get the other manuals out of the cars and show her but would someone please post on here so she can sleep at night in the event I do pull the trigger on this unit.
Anyone got any "real world" mileage figures yet on the '10s?
Thanks in advance.
easypar
I also find that the sound quality & volume to the other caller is weak, but not as bad as you discribe. There is no "clipping sound". We're making more of an effort to project our voices, not to the point of yelling, & trying to talk in the direction of the mic, which is located just to the left of where you load CD's. That seems to help.
If it is, you would think that Subaru would have checked that out before offering Bluetooth to the public. It should noted that on Foresters and Imprezas (Tribecas, too, I believe), the mic is on the ceiling near the map lights. I wonder if Bluetooth reception is better on those models?
Bob
Seems to be a big bummer that those without the nav are reporting great sound on the receiving caller's end, whereas those with the nav transmit only marginal sound quality. :sick:
The location of the mic next to the DVD slot seems close enough; about the same as the mic on the ceiling. I think the difference in quality is due to different guts of the different head units. Seems the non-nav H/K just works better.
There's so many things I love about my new Outback, but the few rough-around-the-edges problems are keeping my from loving the whole car. I'm hopeful from learning that Subaru is working on fixes for the hesitation issue and steering wheel shimmy that there's hope of me falling in love with the car as the issues are fixed.
But I'm definitely feeling the 1st-year car pains. Curious to see how they refine the 2011's. Conversely, my 03 Forester was a first year car (actually a first month!) and it was perfect from the get-go and nearly problem free for 7 years. Only gripe in 7 years was the hyperactive auto climate control. ...But I digress...
Elliot
The lower octane is fine in those conditions.
If you drive down to sea level I'd fill 'er up with 87 octane once you get there, though.
But, she hates the rims, by her words ugly and too small (225/60HR 17) for the look of the car. I can change the rims for better looking ones, but what about adding 18" and keeping the rubber ratio to avoid getting a rough ride - would the car take larger wheels - we don't plan to off road.
Thanks
easypar