Toyota 4Runner

maxwell17 · November 2003

thanks for the tips. That makes sense. I'll need to adjust the temp down before I turn the fan off. The HVAC controls are more confusing than they need to be, but all in all, still a great truck.

bryancos · November 2003

8552 of 8660 "'03 Aux brake lights by 4rnnr Nov 15, 2003 (3:18 pm)
on my new 4runner, have noticed what seems to be aux stop lights located on left & right sides of my rear bumper. I believe these are used in Europe, and have seen these used on other makes here in the states. The housings are sealed, but do have a moulded area on back that must have been used for lamp socket. I have been trying to locate a part# or any reference to these lights and am having no luck. Any suggestions?

===

4rnnr,
I created a writeup for this activity and posted it on another forum... but since the forum police won't allow me to actually LINK it, I'll just repost here:

The red rear lenses in the bumper are intended for rear fog lights in the foreign versions of the 4Runner such as the Hilux Surf. This procedure shows you how to modify the lamp housing to accept standard bulb sockets and how to wire them properly as auxillary brake/tail/turn signals to get the attention of the sleepy headed driver behind you.

Sorry, but I didn't have time to take pics during the process.

Liability: the author (moi) and this site assumes no responsibility for damages caused by performing modifications on your vehicle. These instructions are accurate to the best of my knowledge, but I'm not responsible for any errors that these instructions may contain, or any differences between your car and mine. If you don't feel comfortable working with automotive electrical wiring, please let someone with some experience perform this modification.

Warranty: the modifications described in this document could potentially void any manufacturer's warranty you may have left on the car (not likely, but possible nonetheless). You assume all responsibility if your car is still covered by warranty.

PARTS NEEDED:

10MM Socket (having a small handled socket wrench helps)

Pliers (regular and needle nose)

Small file

Some 14-18ga Wire

Wire Cutter/Stripper

Electric Drill

1 1/8 or 1 1/4" hole cutter

Two 1 1/8" round snap in tail light sockets

Two 1157 or equiv. bulbs to fit above sockets

NOTE: Due to heat issues, you may want to consider using LED 1157 bulbs - the LEDs aren't likely to get as hot -- even with the vent caps removed, I noticed signs of heat buildup around the housing if the taillight function is wired up.

A hot glue gun

wire crimp on connectors

Split wire tubing (optional)

Electrical Tape

1. Remove the lenses.
Each rear red foglight lens housing is held in place with a single 10MM nut. You'll need to crawl under the rear and look up into the bumper to see it. Loosen it with a 10MM socket and you can remove it by hand. Pull the lens out of the bumper.

2. Make a hole for the bulb sockets.
Place light housing on a soft scratch free surface such as a towel.
You'll see that the spot where a bulb would normally go is sealed. And there's a little hex shaped nub in the center. Using a pair of pliers, break off the nub. Then drill a small pilot hole in the center of where the opening will be. Use the small hole cutter to CAREFULLY drill out the hole. GO SLOW! I ended up going just over half way and then broke out the hole carefully with a pair of needle nose pliers to avoid doing any damage. Check the opening for fitment of the bulb and socket and sand or file the edges as needed.

2A. Remove the Vent Caps from each lense housing!!!
Forgot to do this the first time around and the bulbs overheated and shattered when I was running w/ taillights. The vent caps pull off easily and will expose an open hole to allow proper venting of heat generated by the bulb.

3. Insert bulbs into sockets
Self explanatory

4. Attach ground wire to socket (depends on socket)
The type of socket I purchased at NAPA did not have a ground wire -- the socket itself was ground. So you'll need to attach a ground wire to the socket since we're mounting this in a plastic light housing. I twisted a piece of wire around one of the crimps that help hold the socket in place. Solder would probably be a good idea, but the hot glue held mine in place nicely. Put a piece of tape on this wire to distinguish the ground wire from the others.

5. Install bulb and socket into lamp housing
Be careful when inserting.. it may be a snug fit and we don't want to break the bulbs. This is where the hot glue gun comes in. Chances are the socket won't stay in place very well on it's own, so carefully use the hot glue gun to make a light seam around the socket to hold it and the ground wire into place. (It can be cut thru later w/ a knife and reglued if the bulb needs to be replaced.)

NOTE FROM CRMARTIN'S INSTALL:
I didn't end up having to do any gluing when I did the mod. My bulbs stayed in sockets just fine so no gluing was necessary there. And I didn't have to glue to the sockets into the housing because I drilled out the hole with a 1" drill bit and slowly filed the opening larger to the point that the socket fit into the hole very tightly and securely. It was a slow process, but at least now I can get to it to change bulbs in the future.

Take his advice and take the time to file... I was in a hurry and took the glue shortcut. If you have the time and talent, you could probably use a dremel tool and utilize a diff type of socket as well!

6 Test ground wire connection.
By now you should have a bulb and socket firmly installed into the lamp housing. Test your ground wire connection by attaching it to a battery or using the terminals inside the trailer hitch connector. We just want to ensure the bulb lights up.

7. Attach wire extensions to the bulb socket
The wires that come w/ the bulb socket are rather short, making it difficult to crimp on addtional wire once the lamp is reinstalled -- so save yourself the trouble and attach about 3-4 feet of wire to each of the leads. (you can cut it shorter later) Be sure theres enough wire to reach the area behind the trailer connector after the lamps are installed.

8. Reinstall the assembled lights.
Carefully tuck the wires into the open hole in the bumper and reinsert the lamp housings. Reach up and hand tighten the 10MM nuts first. Then tighten with socket wrench. You don't want them rattling loose and falling off or the lenses will fall off too.

9. Install split wire loom.
If you have split wire loom, put it on the wires and carefully route up and around to where the trailer connector is.

10. Connect the wiring
At the trailer connecter there's a bunch of wires that lead up to it. Go back a little further where the wires join from the tail lights to the connector. Using crimp connectors, attach the marked ground wire and the leads as follows to the wires leading to the trailer connector:

NOTE: Toyota does not use the same colors as a standard 7 pin connector:

(CONTINUED)

bryancos · November 2003

(continued from previous msg)

Ground wire goes to thick white wire w/ black stripe (ground) leading to the connector
One lead of RIGHT bulb/lens goes to Brown (right turn/stop) wire leading to the connector
One lead of LEFT bulb/lens lead goes to Red (left turn/stop) wire leading to the connector
(To help you find them, There's a cluster of brown, red, blue and yellow that go off one plug underneath near the trailer connector)
Remaing leads go to the thin green w/ black stripe wire (tail lights) leading to the connector

11. Test the lights
Have someone hit the brakes, use turn signals, turn on hazards and headlights/taillights to ensure bulbs work properly. Left and right bulbs should work with associated amber turn signals. Both lenses light up when parking/headlights are turned on. Both lenses light up intensely when brakes are applied. Both lenses flash brightly when hazard lights are activated along with amber signals. (ie; two flashing amber and two flashing red all illuminate at the same time.

bryancos · November 2003

Looks like K&N has released an intake kit for the V6 4Runner:
Part #63-1076 TOYOTA 4RUNNER, V6-4.0L, 2003

Picture at:
http://knfilters.com/images/aircharger/63-1076.jpg

And for those that just want the standard drop in filter, the part # is: Part #33-2281 (posted earlier)

grubbs1 · November 2003

is tricky. I believe it will turn on if there is a change in the temp setting or the vent direction toggle.

The radio probably went on due to you accidentally hitting the mode button on the steering wheel controls.

Larry, help me out on my previous question: what are my limits regarding going off-road on my 4x2 Sport?

bmw323is · November 2003

The biggest concern you will face with 2WD is getting stuck. Stay awy from mud, deep sand, very steep hills, etc. You still have good ground clearance. The other factor is not having a low gear ratio for very slow crawling.

By the way, I experienced my first driving in snow and ice this past weekend. Even in 2WD mode, the 4Runner did much better than my old pickup. It was rock solid a far as straight line driving. In 4WD, it was very capable. There was only 3 or 4 inches of snow, but it was very icy underneath.

likalar · November 2003

(quote):...I own a 4x2 sport. What kind of terrain can I tackle without getting stuck or get in trouble? I plan to go to some out-of-the-way areas in Mexico where there are only dirt roads... ....

Well, it all depends on what the roads are like. bmw323 gives good advice on what to stay away from. Generally, you'll get an idea by what you see the locals driving. Also, ask the locals before you dive into a region you're unsure of. A fairly firm dirt road can be handled by almost any vehicle that's in decent shape. Lowering the tire pressure will help get you through a soft area that has you worried. I've been to Mexico on motorcycles (one wheel drive) with street tires, and we always let air out on the drier dirt roads (I fell only a few times :-). Small pumps and Co2 cannisters are available to get the pressure back up when the road improves.
If you go places in rainy season, and you see a shallow stream to cross, maybe walk it first to get a sense of the bottom. If you want a bit more piece of mind, carry your own heavy-duty tow strap, maybe even chains, and do some research on tires meant for off road (but I doubt you really need to go down every road, right?). Mexico has a zillion 2wd vehicles traveling unimproved roads; if you use some caution, you should be fine. Remember when 4wd vehicles were a rarity? Back East, way back when, my parents somehow got thru snowstorms on crappy tires on the old Chevy wagon. I think 4wd was something only the military (and some old Dodge Power Wagons) had access to. Good luck.
Larry

resumespeed · November 2003

Hello kheintz1, your posts (like #8650) would be a LOT easier to read if they had paragraph breaks...

grubbs1 · November 2003

Thanks Larry and BMW, this was just the type of info a city boy like me needs(before I attempt something dumb)!

smg1062 · November 2003

....my local dealer this weekend with my buddy to check out the 4runners (NYC area). I have a few questions that need your input:

2) V6 or V8: Is the MPG that different? If not, I would prefer the 5 speed V8; the engine works less, esp in summertime with the AC cranking......is that accurate? Other than towing (which I dont do), what other benefits are there for more torque vs HP?

2) Buying 2: If we both buy at the same time, how good a deal could we get? He wants a Limited V6, leather, but no NAV, no stereo upgrade. I want a fully blown Limited with nav, audio upgrade, 3rd row seat, yada yada yada. Is it reasonable to assume that we can get better prices by buying two at once? Also, Im buying; he's leasing. ANY feedback would be GREAT!!

3) NY vs NJ: Im only 15 minutes from a local NJ dealer. Are the prices lower in NJ vs NY? Is it worth my while to cross the bridge?

likalar · November 2003

Click on the little "search this discussion" box at the bottom and type in the word mileage. You'll get 200 responses, some of which might be real helpful. Here's my V8 mileage: 13-14 if I stay in San Francisco-this town is pure hell on mileage-, 17-18 if I mix in-town with freeway, 21+ freeway only. I'm real happy with that.
I'm sure either engine can handle the air-conditioner. You really gotta' drive both of them, IMO. Take your time (and the dealer's) to get a feel for each. There are good searchable discussions here re: full-time /part time 4wd, navigation upgrades, etc. Lots of good info.
About buying two trucks: Maybe the dealer will throw in a couple of turkeys? :-) Happy hunting!
Larry

bulych · November 2003

consumer report has rated the reliabilty of the 2oo3 v6 4runner as the worst in its class.the reason that was given to me by them , is that according to consumer feedback there were problems with fuel systems,paint,trim,rust and body intregrity.has anyone who owns a v6 experienced any of these concerns

mylasttoyota · November 2003

No local dealers will give you a better deal by buying two. They just rip you off twice. Make a trip to the new Carmax toyota dealer in Baltimore, you can save a bundle without the crap of a local dealer.
Just as an example, a 2004 Toyota 4Runner Limited V8 4WD 4D , Stock Number: 2033952,has an of MSRP: $40,877, you can get it for 37,468 without any BS.

Make sure you dont get one that has the sulfur smell problem.

jfeger · November 2003

Quoted:
<according to consumer feedback there were problems with fuel systems,paint,trim,rust and body intregrity.>

I find this interesting since the V8 and the V6 is IDENTICAL with the exception of the obvious (engine, tranny, 4wd...any drive train related stuff).

The body, trim, rust (what the heck would be rusting in a year?) and body intregrity should be the same across all models basically.

The fuel system problem on the V6 was fixed on post-May-03 vehicles, and the pre-may vehicles have had a recall to have the dampers fixed. Consumer reports needs to study a bit before they give the worst rating to one vehicle, and the best to another, especially when they are THE SAME DANG TRUCK!

rogers12 · November 2003

I don't know if you can access this page:

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv2.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt- - - _id=357083&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=97851&ASSORTMENT%3C%3Eas- - - t_id=333137&bmUID=1069886399375

Here is the article summary:

"The 4Runner is now among the top-ranked SUVs in its price class and is fit for serious off roading. It's a big improvement over its predecessor, riding better than some car-based SUVs. Our tested V6 model delivered lively and effortless acceleration. Fuel economy was an unimpressive 16 mpg. Handling isn't as nimble, but is sound and secure with standard stability control. The interior feels substantial and well made. The seats are comfortable and afford a good view out. The power rear window and interior mirrors for reversing are nice touches. A third seat is a new option. The V6's reliability has been poor; the V8's excellent.

This review represents our latest advice on the current model. It's based on our expert perspective, plus the latest reliability and test data for this year's model or an essentially similar predecessor."

In the reliability ratings on the 2003 4Runner, only body integrity gets less than top marks. All other items, including engine, get the highest possible rating.

I think, all in all, that they have very little historical data to go on for the V6. You can bet that this engine, being from Toyota, will have great long-term reliability. Better than the V8? The jury is still out on that one.

Here's the link for the reliability ratings in USAToday from CR:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-03-reliablechart.htm

and some previous discussion:
peter78 Nov 9, 2003 5:51pm

smg1062 · November 2003

Thanx for the reply. However, I dont think I'll make a 3hr trip to Baltimore for a car. Im sure between the 3-4 dealers close to me, I can get a good deal. As far as buying two, wouldnt the dealer want to work a deal since he's working less to sell 2 at once??

rogers12 · November 2003

grubbs1 · November 2003

You better believe that the prices are more negotiable when you are buying/leasing two vehicles (depending on the dealer's inventory). Get the invoice cost to the dealer and pricing information from Edmunds and these chat boards

Since you are ready to buy, I suggest you shop by phone to see how much over invoice each dealer is willing to sell (times two!). You also want to know if they have your models in stock.

I bought my 4runner at $800 over invoice (more or less). My previous two new car purchases were bought at invoice minus rebates (without any trades)!

Just my $0.02.

terrafirma · November 2003

The part-time 4WD system of the V6 4Runner. This system allows you to change from 2hi (2 wheel drive) to 4hi (4wd) and 4lo (4wd). It is exactly the same as the full time 4wd system of the V8 4Runner except it has the option to disengage the front wheels.

If you want, you can leave the system in 4hi. This will make it a AWD truck, identical to the AWD V8 4Runner. The part time 4WD system can run on any surface with no damage to your drivetrain or binding of the drivetrain.

If you wish to lessen wear on the drivetrain components and increase MPG's, you can turn to 2HI. Will this make driving more dangerous on streets in differing conditions? What if you are driving in the rain and forget to turn to 4Hi? Will you skid out like any other suv?
No, because Toyota equipped it with VSC which works to prevent that sort of thing.
Of course grip is better with 4wd but there are alot of 2wd 4Runners that do just fine.

You have the option. If you want, just leave it in 4Hi for full time 4wd driving in any condition, on any surface.

terrafirma · November 2003

A couple things so I don't confuse people.

1. I use AWD (all-wheel drive) and full-time 4WD interchangeably. Toyota calls it full-time 4wd but I use AWD since that is how kheintz1 described it in the post I am responding to.

2. Both 4wd systems of the 4Runner have 4hi and 4lo. Only the V6 has the 2hi option.

3. It is true that some part-time 4wd systems (like the Nissan Xterra) cannot be used on dry pavement or risk alot of drivetrain damage.

4. The part-time 4wd system on the 2003, 2004 4Runner CAN be used anytime, anywhere.

5. The manual suggests you drive at least 10 miles a month in 4hi to keep everything lubricated.
To do this, simply switch to from 2hi to 4hi at your convienence at any time under 60mph in any condition. Read your manual for more specific instruction but it is just a matter of turning the knob.

6. 4LO requires a bit more time but is intended as an off-road feature. Read your manual on the steps to take and appropriate use.

Hope that clarifies any confusion

mediaguy2 · November 2003

i have a titanium silver 4-runner v-8 and i'd like opinions on the best and least pricey bolt on bullbar that wraps around the front headlights, a matching rear bumper, and matching tail light guards. want them as macho and goodlooking as possible. TIA

mediaguy2 · November 2003

we have an '03 4runner v8...we live in the country...when we travel over dirt and gravel roads...in other words bumpy...i hear a light rattle which my passenger things is coming from the sunroof. on regular highway and paved it's smooth and quiet. my first question is -- do dealers know about this rattle and are they prepared to deal with it right away...is there a service manual reference that i can cite? second, is it worth going after if i only hear it slightly and only on rough roads...oh one more quickie...the vehicle has a litle over 1000 miles on it. when we picked it up the salesman said bring it in at a thou to have the break-in oil changed. i just called and got a service guy who said dont worry about it until 3000 miles. what's the verdict???? TIA

kscottt · November 2003

seriously man...

the sunroof rattle problem has been identified and there is a fix that the dealer can do for you. you can 'search' the 4runner forums and you'll find PLENTY of information about it.

bcmalibu99ls · November 2003

For a macho look get a Hummer :-)

4Runner does look good, though. Not in a macho way, but in a sophisticated way, imho

smg1062 · November 2003

Havent read up enough on the MDX, but most mags and Consumers Reports love it. Convince me why I should get the 4Runner over the MDX.............thanks!!

toyboxx · November 2003

If you plan on going off-road at all you should need no convincing. If this is strictly a street machine then the MDX is most likely the more practical choice.

jfeger · November 2003

While Acura makes a nice ride, it looks like a minivan in my opinion.

stp1 · November 2003

smg1062,

I would highly recommend the 4.7 V8. I drove the 6 and 8 back to back several times and found the 6 to vibrate more and it is allot noiser than the V8. The V8 is virtually silent, tachs less to accelerate at the same speeds as the V6. The 5 speed transmission is as smooth as butter. I have averaged 18.2 mpg (town) with the V8 and actual is closer to 17.2. I put a K & N filter in and my avg. jumped to 18.6 mpg in town driving.

As far as your purchase, just ask them if they are willing to sell it at invoice. Make calls over the phone to other local dealers and see who has the vehicle and how close to invoice they will sell it for. Let your dealer know you are searching price, but tell them you would prefer to buy from them if they can give you the best price, too. Hope this helps.

azrunner · November 2003

The hatch back on my 2003 Sport needs to be pushed up whenever I open the back.

When I bought the vehicle in January I remember that the back would spring up nicely.

Does anyone know how to remedy this ailment?

Should I take it to the dealer? It has 13,000 miles - should be covered by warranty

Thanks!

ckdexter · November 2003

http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2003/pr112803.htm

alfster1 · November 2003

Ouch! I guess having front and rear guards might be a good idea for the 4Runner. I only have a rear GoRhino! HitchStep now on my 4Runner.....I can't believe that the bumpers would be so flimsy.

smg1062 · November 2003

My local dealer's prices are almost identical to Edmund's estimates. One HUGE thing that sets me back is the fact that Toyota messed up by not offering a 4runner with BOTH NAv and 3rd row seat! I can get either or, but not both. I can always put in an after mkt NAV, but then I cant get the backup camera. Big bummer for a $40,000 SUV. Any suggestions?

smg1062 · November 2003

I went 4runner shopping today. Toyota DOES NOT offer a Limited 4runner with both NAV and 3rd row seats. LEXUS doesnt make the GX with an upswing door, AND they make those stupid fold to the side 3rd row seats..........most all other SUVs are folding their 3rd row seats into the cargo area...SMART!!! What gives with Lexus/Toyota? I really want a GX....I would settle for a loaded Limited 4runner, but Im annoyed at both............................any feedback??

swatdir · November 2003

enjoyed reading the thread on v6 vs v8, but what about the 16 inch wheels vs the 17 inch.
does it make much difference?

and any insight as to why a huge number of 4runners have the sun/moon roof?

alfster1 · November 2003

I agree with you. The GX470 not having a lift harch feature really bothered me, as did the great price differential between the V8 Limited loaded and the GX470.

Third row seats aren't that important to me,besides there is hardly any room for both a third row seat and cargo. A Sequoia fits the bill better there, but it is a fairly large vehicle and I didn't like the way it handled.

I am happy with my V8 Limited, although I wish that there was an option for a CD Changer, auto up/down front window button feature, an auto parking break disengage feature, but these are minor inconveniences. I can always install an aftermarket changer, although because of the integrated NAV, it would have to be an FM Modulator type of CD Changer.

nedzel · November 2003

Sure. If you really need 3 rows, get something bigger, like a Sequoia. The 3rd seat in a 4Runner is basically useless.

terrafirma · November 2003

Please don't be offended by what I'm about to say because your needs are certainly as valid as mine.

When I hear the concern over 3rd row seats it makes me want to shoot myself. Look at it from my point of view for a minute.

The 4Runner has built a reputation as a solid, rugged SUV with great off-road prowess. The demand for 3rd row seats is the equivalent to adding a sofa inside a 911Turbo. It wasn't designed for it and only in there because of consumers desperate for anything with 3rd row seating.

The reason for the awkward configuration of the 3rd row seats is because the 4Runner (and GX470) is built on a truck frame. This frame gives up interior space but gives you tremendous strength.

That is the reason why a Honda Pilot has plenty of interior space, for example. It has unibody construction (car construction) that allows for more interior space.

The 4Runner has a truck frame and solid rear axle. This takes up space so the interior is smaller. Why is this good news for people like me? Because the truck frame and rear axle give the best off-road performance. The truck frame will withstand much more abuse with no problem. The rear axle will keep traction going long after the independent rear suspensions of other SUV's have given up. Under heavy loads, a solid rear axle will perform better than independent too.

Toyota created the 4Runner for a certain market, namely the kind of people that want a "real suv" and the off-road characteristics it embodies.
If someone needs an suv that has huge 3rd row seats and stays on-road, Toyota didn't intend the 4Runner to be that SUV.
The GX470 is sold overseas as the Land Cruiser Prado. It has built up a legendary reputation for off-road capability.

I also think my opinion is just one opinion. Many people enjoy the 4Runner in many different ways, which is also the intent of Toyota. I hope the design of the 3rd row seating and other features are more clear though, in light of how some, like me, see the 4Runner.

kheintz1 · November 2003

Terrafirma: Thank you for your comments and clarifications-- most appreciated.

Last night I drove back to Ohio from a visit to the mountainous area of Boone, NC. That morning, it began raining hard as a winter storm system moved into the Mid-Atlantic region, bringing freezing rain, ice, high winds, intense snow squalls, and low visibility. I got on the road at 10:30 PM, then drove for 8 hours and 400 miles through this treacherous winter storm. The drive down and out of the Blue Ridge mountains was especially challenging, and I'm proud to report that my '03 AWD, V8 4Runner Ltd. (with Michelin Cross Terrains) performed FLAWLESSLY and FANTASTICALLY throughout this trip. Indeed, this truck felt like, and performed like, an integrated extension of my own nervous system, for the following reasons...

1) This SUV's "speed shifting" gear shift has been very wisely and ergonomically located on the CENTER CONSOLE, rather than merely being a sedan-like, awkward shift-stalk located on the steering column. Thus, the speed-shifting design of the 4Runner's gear shift is very "tactile", intuitive, and above all, ERGONOMIC, since it's always so effortlessly and undistractingly within reach without any need to grope among other control stalks located on the righthand side of the steering column during intense driving situations (let alone not having to manipulate and VISUALLY verify that the right gear is about to be selected as one must do with an awkward stalk.)

2) Even when heavily ladened with passengers and cargo, the V8/5-speed combination clearly demonstrated its ability to so EASILY handle the ever-changing demands of the mountainous terrain of West Virginia turnpike. Indeed,
hour-after-hour, this truck's powertrain (fed 93 octane fuel) delivered an impressive amount of torque, with seemingly plenty of torque power to spare. And, the V8's impressive, quiet, and low-vibrational torque power was beautifully and oh-so-smoothly transmitted by the 5-speed transmission. Ah yes, even when this truck was negotiating (eastern) mountainous grades at highway speeds, it's torque power RESERVES, shift points, shift characteristics, and "grade logic" were so smooth and subtle that quite often I scarcely noticed the vehicle's automatic shifts, especially when I was in conversation, or perhaps listening to talk radio. This level of "power" and traction performance is a marked and welcomed departure from that of my previous 2002 V8, 4WD Explorer, which I thought was pretty OK until I bought this 4Runner.)

3) I'm fast appreciating just how many other aspects of the new 4Runner that are simply superb and ingeniously designed and executed. For example, a) After driving in the mountains recently, I'm becoming much more impressed with, and appreciative of, the X-REAS technology, which I believe is not so much noticeable when merely driving around town, as it is when driving under more demanding road conditions. b) The brakes of this vehicle are really quite superb and sophisticated. c) My truck's leather, power-adjustable front seats proved to be VERY comfortable and supportive even after 8+ hours behind the wheel during a technically demanding, stressful, and exhausting drive. d) The headlights and factory fog lights are of a very high quality, and I'm especially impressed with the fact that the factory fog lamps are actually quite useful. But that said, I'm still thinking about adding some PIAA fog lamps and/or bulbs for an added measure of light penetration, as well as because I just love PIAA's #1450 fog lamps. e) The DVD/Nav/surround-sound option is really in a class of it's own, but particularly the GPS-based navigation system. And yes, you could avoid the cost of this combined option by buying, for example, separate aftermarket products, but I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with anything approaching the broad spectrum features, high quality, and unobtrusive/integral installation that Toyota's stock DVD/nav/surround-sound system provides for the same overall price.

In summary, my '03 4Runner is the finest vehicle I've ever had the pleasure to own and drive, and I can't recommend this vehicle too highly.

smg1062 · November 2003

for the feedback. Im driving myself nuts. I also checked out the New Nissan Armada. Its HUGE. A Loaded LE model with NAV and DVD, huge 3rd row seats........under $48,000.....very impressed with that price. Its an awful lot of truck. Its too big.......yet less than the GX................

Does anyone know why Toyota doesnt offer 3rd row AND NAV together?

pat84 · November 2003

I have 17 inch wheels and tires on my 03 V-8 Sport. The 16 and17 inch tires and wheels are the same circumference,
I have had it out in loose sand on the Outer Banks of NC. I aired down my tires to 20 #. I would prefer the 16 inch tires for this use as there is more rubber and less wheel for the same circumference., There are many more tires available in the 16 inch size at present. There are even some off road treads in the 16 inch which are not available in the 17 inch.
The one advantage of the 17 inch is on the road. It should give a better ride. (I think the 17 inch look better, too.)

asif1 · November 2003

Third Row Seat can be completly taken out by folding and unlocking the side hinge nicely coverd in plastic, leaving no clue behind that you ever had 3rd row seat except for 2 small indents on cargo floor. That can also be coverd with spare full floor mat. If you dont like 3rd row seat, take it out. But having an extra potential in your vehicle of carrying 2 extra people when you need is really helpful. Further more for in-town driving it does'nt hurt if you are carrying all 7 seven passengers (on demand) or fold one of the 3rd row seat for added cargo space, use other as extra seating. Folding over to side is helpful in unfolding it, since you dont have to lean over too much, from back, to pick the latch from floor or go around from 2nd door, bend the 2nd row seat and then unfold the 3rd row seat.
Toyota must have done their study before putting 3rd row seat, since 70 % of 4runner buyer rarely use it for offroad purpose.
asif

nedzel · November 2003

They don't offer the 3rd seat and nav together because the 3rd seat apparently takes up some room needed for the nav system equipment.

I strongly suggest that you reevaluate your need for a 3rd row seat. The 3rd row seat in the 4Runner is very small and is very difficult to get into. If you need a 3rd row seat, then get a bigger truck or a minivan. If you don't need the 3rd row seat, then it is a waste of money and weight (and therefore, fuel).

alfster1 · November 2003

Although helpful (particularly for those smaller in stature), the third row seat is an expensive option that is uncomfortable for adults and not easy to access. Also, folding up the seats to the sides can reduce some rearward visability.

Ideally, a Highlander, Sienna, or Sequoia fit the bill better for those who need a third row.

terrafirma · November 2003

I am using 17" wheels for off roading and they are doing great. For sand, 20psi is too high! You need to be at 8-12psi for great flotation and comfy ride! Believe me, once you descent and ascend 45 degree dunes and steeper (!) you will believe in your 4Runner!
I haven't had problems on rocky terrain with 17's either. No bottoming out on the tires or anything.

17" doesn't have a huge selection but in the size that fits (265/70-17) without rubbing or problems, they look REALLY good.
The best tires are available in the size too. BFG ATKO All-Terrain, Bridgestone Duler REVO, TOYO, even the Goodyear wrangeler MT/R! etc, etc,

Plus the fact 17" is great on road and they look awesome, there is no reason to consider 16's.

Now theoretically, 16's have more flotation but not enough to justify the switch. Unless you are going to do the Rubicon trail rockcrawling (in which case the 4Runner would need a lift and even bigger tires than stock 16's anyway).

If you have 16's, that is great. If you have 17's you are good too. Just run what you got and don't worry about the minor difference between the two.

ladyofluxury · November 2003

I am currently deciding between RX330 and 4Runner Ltd V6 2WD, I do not live in a snowy region and I don't tow anything but my dog, lots of groceries and husband. I truly love the design of both the 330 and 4Runner, I know that these two vehicles are in two completely different markets. However, was just wondering if the extra $10K for the RX330 would be well spent for a "softer" ride. Basically my question is how would you all rate on a scale of 1-10 the ride quality of the 4Runner? 98% of my driving is interstate on old, bumpy VA roads and one of my top priorities is a smooth ride, any comments are appreciated. Also, what about leans going around corners? I don't want to feel as if I'm about to flip over everytime I get off on the very steep off-ramp at my job :-)

terrafirma · November 2003

Is the RX $10,000 more? Wow.

The independent suspension of the RX is going to give you a smoother ride.

On the 4Runner, you should get the XREAS option. That flattens out the leaning and really adds to the stability- the faster you go, the more you notice the benefits of XREAS. Freeway off/on ramps would be a good example of higher speeds.

You should test ride both to see how they compare. The 4Runner was rated as one of the best rides for a mid-size SUV. It beat out the Murano and other 4 wheel independent SUV's. That is totally subjective however.

I don't think the RX is worth $10,000 more but that's a personal choice. For your purposes (and if cost is not a priority) I would get the RX.

kheintz1 · November 2003

First, you really must test drive each of these vehicles, and the best way to do this would be to request from each dealer a demo or loaner vehicle most closely matching your preferred options, and that you be permitted to take home and drive each vehicle for a full day or two. Do this, and you will be much more likely to answer your own questions.

Also, if you haven't already done so, visit the manufacturer's web sites for each vehicle, first at http://www.lexus.com/models/rx/specifications.html. And for the 4Runner, visit http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/4runner/specs.html, where you'll need to click on both the "dimensions" and "capacities" tabs in order to review such things as wheelbase, curb weight, etc. After reviewing this information, keep in mind that within a given size class, those vehicles with more curb weight, wider wheel base (stance), larger tires, lower center-of-gravity, larger cabin, larger seats, and a more robust power/drive train (etc.) may quite often provide a more comfortable, stable, smoother, and safer ride than a smaller vehicle. I found the RX330 to be a rather small, cramped, and vastly overpriced "compact" SUV, but it's YOUR opinion that counts most here! In other words, buy only what YOU like most!

highlander7 · November 2003

Deciding between the RX330 and the 4Runner V6 Ltd. Possibly consider the Toyota Highlander Ltd, it is priced closer to the 4Runner and is a better comparison to the Lexus. My guess is this is a FWD Lexus, not the AWD?

You do not have a concern with snow. Only need room for you dog, lots of groceries and husband. Dog was listed first, husband last.…just an observation?? Either vehicle will haul your needs just fine.

You live in VA., depending on where, you occasionally get some ice and snow and lots of rain. Plus you have those bumpy roads. You may want to consider the 4Runner AWD V8 Ltd. You will not spend anywhere near the $10K difference you would for the Lexus over the V6 Ltd. Runner. Realize the 4Runner is a truck and has a good ride for a truck, the RX330 is on a car-based frame and rides like a car.

My sister owns a RX330 AWD and says it is the best SUV she has ever had. I am picking up my 4Runner V8 Ltd this week and probably will say the same about it after a couple of months.

I have driven each, these are my subjective 1 – 10 ratings:
Ride Rating: 4Runner ( 8 ) RX330 ( 9 ) Highlander ( 7 )

Good luck, you are choosing between the best in each class, you cannot make a bad choice.

I do agree with terrafirma’s statements:
“The independent suspension of the RX is going to give you a smoother ride.”
“For your purposes (and if cost is not a priority) I would get the RX.”

nedzel · November 2003

The 4Runner is built like a truck -- with a separate frame and a solid rear axle. That makes it great for towing and off-road driving. Neither of which are important to you. The RX330 and Toyota Highlander will drive and ride better than the 4Runner. The 4Runner has a some head-toss and front-to-rear pogoing on bumpy roads that you won't get in a the RX330 or Highlander.

Skip the 4Runner. It is not what you are looking for.

terrafirma · December 2003

2003-04 4Runner scored as top midsize suv in the critical offset frontal crash test and the institute's best pick.

http://www.highwaysafety.org/news_releases/2003/pr113003.htm

Toyota 4Runner

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