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They also do not seem to label any of their vehicles CE or VE anymore and in lieu call them their BASE model. Even Honda has adopted this trim labeling scheme. I figure if you have shopped for a Toyota recently, you would be aware.
Last step is a test drive Monday with their engineer on the highway when they come to pick up the vehicle. If he agrees that it's loose, wanders, drifts then he'll hand over the cashier's check. If he doesn't feel the problem is severe enough to test, then the deal is off.
I did tell him that the Toyota Experience Hotline and local dealer had no information about the EPS module to fix the steering problem. He was quite surprise since he said he had one sitting on his desk that Toyota sent him personally.
"Some customers have expressed dissatisfaction with the on-center steering feel on the 2009-2010 model year Corolla vehicles. A re-tuned Power Steering Computer Assembly has been developed to provide an alternative steering feel for these customers."
If you search you can find the actual bulletin.
biffpreston, I understand your frustration w/ the steering - however, I don't have the same conspiracy view that Toyota (or any other company) is trying to "sell" a fix to you, me, or the government. They gain nothing by not fixing the problem in the long run.
The the complaints most of us have with the EPS are very similar to the complaints people had when hydraulic power steering came out. The hydraulic system you prefer wasn't always a joy to drive either...At first, it was too easy to steer...you couldn't fee the road...too much assist. Engineers listened and they reduced the hydraulic pressure and redesigned systems. Over time engineers learned what works for different applications...from massive trucks to sport cars. EPS will suffer the growing pains too...
And automobiles are not the only industry...for example, world class fighter jets and large commercial aircraft are increasingly "fly by wire". Airbus has ZERO control cables or hydraulic lines to the cockpit. Yep, you're flying a computer control yoke and that info is transmited to the hydraulic actuators electrically. The "feeling" a pilot gets when moving the control yoke is programed by engineers...the resistance to control imputs has to be determined. Engineers could design the control yoke to move at the touch of a finger, or require significant effort. Over the years, engineers have improved the "feel" and now pilots can't tell the difference...
Are you going to even attempt to get the TSB "fix" installed to see if their is ANY difference in handling?
One additional note you might find useful - the engineer at the NHTSA did mention to me that they were also testing a Corolla that exhibited the exact opposite of what most people on here are complaining about - that being a stiff steering feel during most driving conditions. He is drving to my home on Monday with another engineer to get a feel for that vehicle's problem, and then if he buys my Corolla, will drive it back to experience the loose steering issue. So it sounds like the EPS can be either too stiff, or too loose...
FYI companies do all sorts of things such as what I have described above about the so called "fix". They are going to do whatever is cheapest and generates the most positive or least negative publicity. They could care less if their cars drive like garbage scowls so long as people continue to buy them. They are not in business to sell cars that drive well necessarily they are only in business to sell cars and for the greatest profit. Using the cheap to manufacture EPS allows them to bring their fleet fuel economy average up and move closer to the CAFE mandate, so they pay fewer "fines" or "fees", and it costs them a lot less than installing hydraulic assist systems.
With regards to the stiff steering Corolla. Ihave noticed that the steering is all sorts of different things depending on what speed you happen to bedriving. The steering wheel does feel stiff and sluggish sometimes and loose others. I might call it schizophrenic steering. Like I said some people might be more tolerant of driving a car that handles like the modern Corolla than I. Prius owners for example.
Actually Biff, I don't think your right on the money at all, in fact I think your way off base with the examples of complaints you list above of what you believe others don't like about the newest generation of Corollas. Okay, I'll give you that a small number of 2009/2010 Corolla drivers are complaining about trying to keep their car straight on the highway and are experiencing some wandering. But site me some examples of the other complaints you list above. Again, there are those of us that bought the Corolla because of this improvement of electronics over hydraulics in regard to the steering. Some of us actually test drove the Corolla first and liked what we found.
By the way, I do have gold plating on one of my my three Corollas.
Definately different strokes for different folks. I don't see the electronic steering as an improvement over hydraulics. What is the improvement that you see? I dont think for an instant I think Im going to change your mind about whatever it is and I wouldnt be so arrogant as to try. The Corollas dull electric tiller is far from anything I could call an improvement. I amazed that anyone could say that the new Corollas with EPS drive any better than utterly atrocious.. Mind over matter I suppose.
As for being right on the money about what I said about the so called "fix". Yes I do believe I am right on the money in what I said about the nature of the "fix" in post #325 and what I added about it in post #327
I told him that I had approached my dealer about the drifting who gave me the deer in the headlights look. Now that I have the bulletin and have printed it off, I'm going back to the dealer, present it to them and ask them to fix. NHTSA asked to be informed if they refuse to repair it.
Additionally, I asked the NHTSA rep if they had received any complaints about surging in speed at about the 30 to 45 mph range...almost as though you would be gently accelerating and then taking your foot off the pedal. He said they had and gave me some suggestions on how to approach the dealer with that problem; once I do, I will give NHTSA some feedback on both how they intend to address the EPS as well as the surging.
I found NHTSA extremely interested in the problem(s), very forthcoming and willing to pursue.
Z
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
PS..
What happened to post #308
To me, Nissan "S" trim = Honda "LX" trim = Toyota "LE" trim = Ford "SE" trim = Hyundai "GLS" trim. High-volume, modest-features, high-value models.
Uh... I don't. Almost all the kids I see are driving better vehicles than I did nearly 30 years ago when I started driving. For example, it's almost impossible to purchase a late-model "stripper" car these days that doesn't have A/C or FM radio. Mine had neither, and drove like a shopping cart.
I'd have considered myself lucky to have a vehicle about which my chief complaint was subpar handling. While you may be having a bad experience with your Corolla, I don't think any kid who's been given a 2009/2010 Corolla should be pitied.
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After the test ride, the engineer believed the car exhibited detrimental handling characteristics and complete the sale - the NHTSA is now the owner of a super clean 2010 Corolla S with 11,472 miles for a fire sale price of $15,000.00. While I'm not please with the final price, I think it reflects the low end of a private part sale price, and the fact that the undesirable handling may, or may not be correctable. (Although I believe it can be corrected with the new EPS TSB fix)
With check in hand, I will be car shopping soon...while I feel vindicated, I am sad to see the car go...a bitter sweet ending.
There in is lies the problem, you think but do not know how other Corollas are driving, your judging everyones new Corolla on your own bad luck of getting one of the lemons. You are one of a minute percentage of new Corolla owners who are experiencing this effect as you describe it. Trust me, if you lived a block away from me, I'd allow you to drive my 2009 Corolla to see what the EPS is supposed to be like. I hope everything works out for you and all of the other 2009/2010 Corolla owners having this EPS problem, but please don't include us satisified drivers to your bad list or assume our cars are having the same problem as yours is.
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I'm not hung-up on the Toyota brand at all, I'm hung-up on the Toyota quality and safety they provide. Am I loyal Toyota buyer? you bet I am. Did Toyota have a bad year and have many problematic issues not accustomed to Toyota? yes they did. Am I ready to throw them under the bus and start buying Hondas? no way! Toyota will rebound from their growth problems and will be a better and stronger company for it. Again, I'm sorry you wound up with one of these problematic cars and I hope they resolve your issues as they should. But please don't judge my vehicle, or those of hundreds of thousands of other satisfied new Corolla owners, by the car you wound up with.
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Since 1978 I've been pro-Japanese, starting out with one of the first Honda Accord HBs. From there it became a Prelude, then one of the first Camry HB's - the latter was absolutely bullet proof. Then came another Honda Accord sedan, later a newer one, then a Civic, then Toyota again with one of the first Avalon's. A 4-Runner replaced it, then a Lexus ES (bad paint), Tundra (the first of the big ones), a Highlander (recalls and horrible steering), Infiniti G (pristine car), BMW 3 coupe (super pristine), 911 (rocket), present Toyota Corolla LE (worst car I've ever had) sitting beside its garage mate, Mercedes E350.
The thing I've noticed over time is that Toyota has cheapened its cars with a less robust body. There was a time that Toyota was flawless with somewhat better technology, better electronics...and you paid a bit more for it. But now it seems you pay less and in the product, get less. My LE suffers from the crappy steering, crappy paintjob (incredible chips all over the hood and it's primarily a city driver), and crappy feeling of surging. I'm taking it in this week to get the steering thing resolved (hopefully) and have them look into the surging, although my confidence that they will do anything about that is pretty low.
I'll keep the car minimal time then may look into a Mini. Whereas I used to be 100+% pro-Japanese product, after driving German cars for my last several and currently owning one, I found there is definitely another side of the world with technology, quality, and performance being foremost.
Z
I guess even if my Corolla was as bad as that, I'd probrably dump it too. Sorry to hear that! Wish you better luck with the new ride.
A MINI, really ? ? ? Do you realize they're rated as one of the most unreliable cars out there? Check out US News, J.D. Power and Consumer Reports. Do you really want to pay over 32K( almost twice as much as a Corolla) for something that's going to be in the shop that much. Oh and by the way, I've read they're also the subject of some EPS problems.
Dependent on what you want to spend, there are lots of choices, especially if you decided to go CPO. My BMW was the first German car I bought and it really did surprise me - fast, unbelieveable handling - however, didn't like the run flat tires, though. Traded for a 911 which was a totally different world, but not practical for the winter or everyday car, so I bought the Corolla LE as the daily driver. Finally the wife decided her back was more important (especially on long trips) than my Porsche and we bought the MB. Waaaaayyyy more civilized, reasonably fast (but can't compare to the P-car), and great looking.
I'm wrestling with the LE replacement and not sure where to go, but it'll be German -three out of three winners in a row puts Japanese probably a thing of the past.
Z
It is a shame, if not for the steering and brakes an S Corolla would be really nice.
I have rented a Mazda 3 with the 2.0. Superior steering and brakes, on smooth payment the car rides like a luxury car. The car does not absorb bumps as well as the Corolla though. Highway MPG was great. I found the seats in the Corolla far more comfy. Did not buy the Mazda b/c the seats hurt my back.
That said Toyotas are generally very reliable but i don't think that excuses their behavior.
Also, look how much equipment an Elantra gives you for less money than a Corolla. I like the look of the S in blue and really wanted to like the car but couldn't.
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