Jeep Wrangler

geepers · October 2003

I can only offer an opinion on one of your questions. I've lived with both half doors and full doors and I'd recommend full doors. Half doors are more "open" feeling with the top down, but...the zipper windows soon drove me crazy. I think the full doors are quieter too.

geepers · October 2003

This debate rages in relation to another car I read about. Some folks claim that moly is used to assemble engines and then mixes in with the oil. The one thing most, but not all, people agree is that synthetic slows down the break in process and one should wait until the manufacturer's recommended mileage before switching to a synthetic.

Congrats.

mac24 · October 2003

The 4.0 has a reputation for running to very high mileages without problem. However, as with any other vehicle, its mechanical condition will very dependant on the way it's been maintained. Also remember that ancillary items like starters, alternators, fuel injectors etc. have a finite life on any vehicle and their replacement should be factored into your running costs as maintenance items, just like tires and exhaust.

mac24 · October 2003

No 'break in' oil in your Jeep, just the regular stuff!

My recommendation......... change the oil and filter at 1500 miles to remove all the initial debris, then again at 3000. Thereafter, change them every subsequent 3000 mile interval with whichever high quality oil and filter you like. Synthetic certainly won't do it any harm.

erickpl · October 2003

On the windows, you CAN get half doors with solid upper halves. They have real glass and are called sliders. JCWhitney and other Jeep sites have them. Good compromise. I LOVE the half door but HATE the plastic windows.

As for mtngal's dried up seals, try JCWhitney again. I just got their new catalog and they have replacement seals for almost all areas of your Jeep, including the windshield and rear doors. May be worth a look. Drop me a line at erickson_paul@bah.com and I can give you more info.

-Paul

stever · October 2003

If someone would just start marketing some of that stuff, they could make a fortune. I've never seen any on the shelf anywhere.

Steve, Host

twylie · October 2003

I think the wheels they use on the Willys edition are stock SE wheels which are not very wide 6" I think). I don't know if there woudl be an issue with the 31x10.5 tires on this narrow of a rim.

-twylie

ponm · October 2003

Hello everyone,
I just bought a new 2003 wrangler x and have really enjoyed it. It has just what I needed, no power windows or locks, just the basic stuff. You truly have to admire a vehicle that in the owner's manual tells you not to run preminum gas because its useless. You can no longer buy vehicles that don't come loaded with all that electronical stuff. My only question is, I noticed that when I disengage the clutch and have it in neutral there is a slight noise that occurs,and when I engage the clutch it goes away. Is this normal for wranglers? Thanks, Scott

div2 · October 2003

What type of locker or limited slip would you recommend for my 1999 Sahara's Dana 30? I'm looking for a little better rear traction in slippery conditions-I don't plan any real serious off-roading anytime soon. I have 31s on the TJ currently but I plan to fit the OEM 30" size when the 31s wear out. I'm thinking of going with something like the Detroit Truetrac. I'd appreciate any insight you can provide. Thanks!

jim225 · October 2003

Thanks everyone for your very quick responses to my question concerning break in oil. I guess most (all?) manufactures did away with it a while back. Also, I liked the comment by geepers about synthetics slowing down the break in process. Never thought about that but it really makes sense. Cheers.

Jim

mtngal · October 2003

Does anyone know where there is a picture of the Willys on the internet? I'd like to see what it looks like.

guy21 · October 2003

Recently, I have owned Wranglers with both the half and full doors. For my climate (northern Wisconsin) the full doors and glass windows are better suited. However, they do not seem to roll down far enough and I miss the extra elbow room of the half doors.

With the Wrangler redesign, which may be coming for 2006, Jeep could integrate glass windows that roll down into the half doors. I have read that a new window regulator design has been developed that eliminates the cross brace hardware previously associated with window regulators.

mullins87 · October 2003

That noise you are hearing is the throw-out bearing. This bearing rides between the pressure plate and the clutch fork. When you depress the clutch pedal, the fork pushes in on the pressure plate, releasing the clutch disk. Since the pressure plate is turning at engine speed and the fork is in a stationary position, this bearing is needed between the two. When the clutch is engaged there is no pressure on it and therefore it makes no noise.

Unless its loud or has an obnoxious screach to it, it's normal.

wildbl1500 · October 2003

Jeep.com does have the Willys edition posted with some minimal pictures. We haven't seen anything here at my dealership yet (in Maine) as far as brochures or actual product.

-Bill

01r1 · October 2003

I'm assuming you're hearing this when the clutch pedal is out and the clutch is disengaged. I think you're hearing normal "bearing roll" from your transmission. They all do that, it's normal. BTW, it's louder when the tranny is hot, just wait until summer.

If you hear noise when the pedal is in, or the clutch is engaged, then it could be the throw-out bearing like mullins87 said. If you hear the throw-out bearing in your new Jeep, take it to your dealer for repair.

BTW, welcome to the group! How about a picture of your new X?

-Pete

geepers · October 2003

Every car I've owned has been a manual, and every one of 'em makes a different kind of noise depending on the clutch in or out, in gear or not, and all combinations thereof. If you're concerned, when you take your Jeep in for service, mention it and get it on the record just in case.

mac24 · October 2003

Doesn't do much for me I'm afraid. Looks like the package was put together by a school kid in his lunch break.

An extra $1430 on top of the standard Wrangler X price buys you Camouflage cloth seats, a dark green soft top, foglights, body color sill guards and SE 'look alike' wheels. Oh, and high gloss Moss Green paint with white stencil type lettering plus a Willys badge!

I like milspec stuff generally but I find this fake MB pretty naf! Now, if they painted it in olive drab, dropped the fake lettering, gave it green seats to match the hood, maybe added jerrycans and a winch..............that would be a package to turn heads!!!

Anyhow, here's a window sticker, and there's several pics on Jeep.com if you want to see it.

ponm · October 2003

Thanks everyone for the info and the kind welcome to the board. I will have to try to get some photos up, it is a very nice looking jeep if I must so say so myself. I figured it was a normal thing considering almost every car I have owned has done something similar, just not as loud. Of course, the wrangler doesn't have any sound deading materials so it is probably much more audible. Thanks again. scott

tsjay · October 2003

Our family is growing! That's great.

I have been out of town, and I was very glad to see that we have a fair number of new posts, and, best of all, some new folks.

Some questions have been asked, and some good answers have been given.

Without trying to remember who asked what, I will put my two cents worth in along with the other people who have responded.

1. Manual tranny noise

For those with the 4.0 engine (Sport, X, Sahara, Rubicon) and a manual tranny, you have the NV3550 transmission. These puppies are famous for a noise they ALL make when they are in neutral, the engine is running, and the clutch is out. I describe the noise as being similar to the sound of marbles rolling around in a coffee can. This noise is not an indication that something is wrong: it's just the NV3550 being itself. Thelma Jane, my 01 Sport, has made that noise the whole time I have had her, and after 38.5K miles I have had no trouble with that tranny. I guess I have never heard of anyone having an NV3550 that DIDN'T make that noise.

There was a TSB for the 01s concerning this noise, but the "fix" was just something that reduced the amount of the noise transferred into the cabin and did nothing to address the source of the noise. I didn't even bother. I have heard that the people who had this TSB performed could tell no difference anyway.

It wouldn't hurt to take your Jeep back to the dealer and let them listen to the noise just to be sure that it really is just the typical noise for the NV3550. If they tell you its normal, then you can probably believe them. You will at least be on record as having take the Jeep back to have it checked out. That could be important later, if there really is a problem.

2. Break-in oil

For a long time now manufacturers have been saying that no special oil is used for break-in. I wholeheartedly agree with Mac24 that it is good to change the oil at 1500 miles and again at 3000 miles. As parts wear together during break-in, it is conceivable, or even probable, that metal filings could end up in the oil. It makes sense to me to change the oil early to get those out, but a good filter should trap most or all of them. Just a good safety precaution to change the oil and filter early the first time.

3. Willys edition

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I feel quite a bit like Mac does on this one. I sure don't think you get $1400 worth of desirable stuff out of that option package. I have to admit that I have never actually seen one in person, but I just don't think I would be all that crazy about one.

4. Full vs half doors

Have only owned full doors and am very satisfied with them. I have the hard top only, so I had no choice but to get the full doors. I think that even if I had a soft top I would prefer the full doors. Heck, I take the doors off for the summer anyway when I take the top off.

Well, once again, welcome to all newbies, and I hope each and every one of you will stick around and continue to post.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

jim225 · October 2003

My thanks to Scott for asking the question about the noise his new Wrangler has when idling in neutral. My new 2003 Sport has the same noise and I suspected it was the throwout bearing. However, for the cars I owned early in my life, this was a noise that meant the bearing was going out and typically indicated that it needed to be replaced. I'm relieved to hear it's normal and my Jeep is back in good stead with me again!

Jim

tsjay · October 2003

Not to nitpick, but I don't think the noise is actually the throw out bearing. Doesn't the clutch have to be "in" for the throw out bearing to make noise? (When the clutch is in, is that engaged or is that disengaged? Never could keep that straight. I know the transmission is disengaged when the clutch is in, but is the clutch considered engaged or disengaged?)

Anyway, I think Mac already posted something to this effect earlier, that the throw out bearing would only make noise with the clutch in.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · October 2003

Thanks to all of you Easterners who sent wet stuff our way. I thought my other half was being a bit silly (but I didn't complain at all) by taking the Wrangler to work today when it was only lightly snowing. However, when we got home tonight (we went to dinner in Westwood) there was about 2 inches of snow on the ground! It's absolutely wonderful and I can't believe we've had this much snow this early. The Wrangler did its usual excellent job plowing through the slush and snow.

I like the half doors because they are at the right height for my elbow and the ledge on the full doors is too high. However, if I were to get the half doors, I would want to get sliders - I would not want to deal with the zippered windows all the time. The interesting thing is that they had just come out with the dual tops when I bought mine (hard top) in '98. According to my owners manual, they came with both sets of doors. Now that would be the best of all worlds - both tops and both sets of doors.

drperez007 · November 2003

As always, thanks for the response. As for the Willys, I like the idea of the jerrycans (and, heck, let's see if we can find one of those old military low-band whip antennas!). The Moss Green is close to OD, but certainly doesn't have that "flat paint" look. I have now seen these at about five different dealers. I agree that the $1430 (about $1140 cost) is questionable. Every dealer said the same thing: They did not order them, just requested that one be sent when they learned about them (each dealer said that they were getting one, maybe two at most). Looks like they came with a variety of different equipment, including, autos and manuals, full and half doors, cruise control and no cruise control, trac-lok or not, etc. The Willys Accessory Group [which includes the hood star and side numbering decals, the front and rear light guards, and the "FUEL" decal] might not be orderable thru parts as a package. If the dealer didn't get it with the vehicle (and none that I spoke with, did), the five items may have to be ordered individually thru the part$ dept.

Your input on the "half vs full door" issue was very helpful. Because I'm not the world's tallest driver (and would like to rest my elbow on the door sill), and because the Sport will more than likely be left here in the desert, I'll probably order the half-doors, as I intend to pull the window anyway, as well as both sides and the rear, leaving only the top on to protect from the sun. Whether I pull the door on the Sport is still open to debate (if I bought the Willys, I would definitely pull the door).

By the way, this is a great site and very responsive. As you can see, I posted my first message on this site this past week, and the response has been great. I have enjoyed the banter on other issues, as well.

I've gone 25 years since my last Jeep...long enough!

Have a great weekend, everyone!

Steve

wildbl1500 · November 2003

While the door debate continues, I have a somewhat related question.

I have full doors on my 01 Sport, because I was lucky enough to find it in cherry condition and the original owner ordered the dual top group (yippie!).

Anyway I have seen aftermarket armrests in quadratec's catalog and 4wd.com for the full doors. Does anyone have this accessory in their Wrangler yet? I am debating the purchase but, as usual you can only see and learn so much from a catalog or website.

-Bill

tsjay · November 2003

Had no one to hook up with, so I wasn't planning on going to Turkey Bay today. Then, when I got back from my trip and checked e-mails, I had someone wanting to meet me there this morning. Got up and took Ross Allen out, got my shower, and checked e-mails only to find out that my bud had cancelled on me.

Oh well, I checked the brake pads and brake shoes on the S-10, took the spare out from under the truck and checked air pressure, and left the tire in the bed of the truck for easier access. Good thing I checked pressure... had only 20 psi. I can't believe I have driven that little truck for two years and had never even checked the pressure in the spare. Not smart!

Now, if I can muster the energy, I will hand wash Thelma Jane and clean her up good inside. She hasn't had more than a spray wash for a long time, and she shows it.

Now, aren't you all excited over all that news???

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2003

Hey, in your last post you said that you live in northern WI. Whereabouts in northern WI do you live? I love the country up there, and I worked one summer in Boulder Junction.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2003

You asked about a locker or limited slip for your "Dana 30." You want something for your front diff? Or, was that a typo, and you were really asking about the rear, meaning to type "Dana 35?"

If you are talking the rear, and if you have the Dana 35, it might be safer to go with limited slip rather than with a full locker. You said you are going back to 30" tires, so that should keep the stress down on the Dana 35.

I have a Detroit Soft Locker in the rear on Thelma Jane, but I have the Dana 44 rear end. My locker's street manners are not too bad, and I can easily live with the quirks for the great benefits that locker provides off road.

I don't know which limited slip might be better than others. I think there are several good ones available.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2003

Steve:

Hey, I see from your profile that you are in St. Louis, so you are only about 3.5 hrs from a real good place to wheel your Jeep! I'm talking about Turkey Bay, where I go almost every Saturday. Think you would be interested sometime?

If you would like to see some pics from Turkey Bay, you can go to itsajeep.org and go to the photo gallery. Click on the photo gallery link at the top of the home page, and then click on "tsjay" on the home page of the gallery.

Let me know if you are interested. My e-mail addy is in my profile.

CONGRATS on that new Jeep!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2003

Just wanted to welcome you personally to this message board. There were so many posts to catch up on last night that I just welcomed the newbies as a group. I always like to greet folks individually, because I am always thrilled to have some new people to "talk Jeep" with.

If you've read very many of the old posts in here, you already know how excited I get when someone gets a new Jeep.

CONGRATS ON THE NEW SPORT!

Welcome, Jim! Hope you plan to stay with us and be a frequent poster.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2003

Hello and welome, Susan. Sorry for the delayed welcome, but I was out of town by the time you first posted.

I think you have received the info you were looking for from our Jeep buds here on this board.

In your initial post you were concerned about roll overs. Well, as I think you were very well informed by others here, yes, a Jeep can be rolled over much more easily than a passenger car. The high center of gravity, due to the good ground clearance of a Jeep, the narrow track, and the short wheel base combine to make a Jeep extremely capable off road, but also very much susceptible to roll overs if they are driven like a sports car. You DON'T want to take curves nearly as fast in a Jeep as you would in a car. You should allow extra following distance and drive very conservatively so as to avoid the need for emergency manuevers. You'll be fine as long as you drive it like a Jeep... SLOW DOWN.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24 · November 2003

Tru-tracs work well front and rear in a D30/D35 combo. As Tom said, it's not wise to put a locker in the D35. A Tru-trac is a geared, rather than clutched, limited slip. It's well engineered and there's no clutch pack to wear out.

However, when I choose to upgrade mine it will be to a Superior Super 35/ARB locker. Of course, the locker and shafts come to just under $1000, whereas the Tru-trac will run about $350.

mtngal · November 2003

I feel for you - all the close national forests are still closed around here. I woke up to close to 3 inches of snow and clear skies, but can't go play! Maybe we'll get another storm through here quickly and they'll lift the closures soon. Sure would like to go hiking!

tsjay · November 2003

"is it worth the money for me to buy a 98 se with 70-80K for around $10,000? i found a red sport with 52K for $10,000 too. car prices are a mystery unto themselves. maybe i just can't believe my good luck with these lower prices"

NO! NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! Do NOT pay $10K for a 98 SE with 70K - 80K miles on it!!! That is almost double what you should expect to pay for a Jeep like that! Now that Sport for $10K with only 52K miles on it is more in line with what you should pay for a used Jeep.

Used vehicles are much tougher to evaluate a deal on. With a new one, you have access to the invoice price, so you know what you should expect to pay. For a used Jeep, however, the condition and the miles on it make all the difference in the world in the price. You have to do a lot more research to find out what is a good deal and what isn't.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2003

Hey, Thelma Jane ain't gettin' any cleaner while I sit here and post messages, is she???

Oh well, can't help it: I love to have new folks showing up in here. You all know how much I love Jeeps and Jeep people too.

Guess I'd better get out there and clean up Thelma Jane. Hope I didn't fail to personally greet any newbies. Not that that would be any great disappointment to the newbie, but it would be to me.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bamatazz · November 2003

Hey..dont forget about BamaTazz over here.
TOM?? washing Thelma.. Im proud of ya man.
now, try to keep her clean.

I hate to go aqainst the grain but,
I like the willys edition Jeep.
of course i liked the Tomb Raider Jeep too.

I have a habit of looking at cars at a resale value in the future, If I did ever wanted to sale what I could get for it in the future.

I guess thats why i got the 6oth Anniversary Wrangler

WELCOME new members.

KEEP JEEPIN
ROLL TIDE
Bama

div2 · November 2003

Yeah, I meant a D35. I'm really losing it...;) Thanks for your input; I think that the Trutrac will be just the ticket. And Tom- buy a couple of cans of Stoners "Trim Shine" and "More Shine Less Time for Vinyl". Just spray it on any vinyl or plastic trim and it will look great. I like to use the "quick and dirty" products on the Sahara and these two REALLY work. I used the Trim Shine on my Pathfinder just before I put it up for sale, and the first guy that looked at it bought it!

ponm · November 2003

Thanks for the invite, I will have to give it a try. A buddy of mine in st. louis owns a custom jeep shop and owns some land in potosi, MO and he goes pretty regularly. You should check out his jeep, I think his web site is asshogger.com. Take care. scott

tsjay · November 2003

Oops! Sorry that I called you "Steve" in my post earlier today.

"A buddy of mine in st. louis owns a custom jeep shop and owns some land in potosi, MO and he goes pretty regularly."

It's always good when you "go" regularly. That's something that we old people are always concerned about.

Yeah, Scott, it would be cool if you and your Bud could come over here to Turkey Bay sometime. Has your Bud been over there before?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bogie64 · November 2003

Hey!

I went on a test drive today in a 98' SE with 40,000 miles. She's red with a hard top and these lovely fat tires and great fat front chrome bumpers. It was soooo much fun! And I didn't even roll it over 'cuz I didn't drive her like a sports car! ;-)

I drove over a curb in a deserted shopping mall--ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!! :-) Driving the Jeep definitely does something for you...changes your whole outlook. :-)

The Jeep didn't ride any rougher than my CRX. Actually smoother, I think, since I was farther from the bumps in the road. And it has air conditioning. Believe it or not, I've never had air conditioning. :-) I love that it doesn't really have power anything, except for the steering and I guess the brakes.

So now I know I want one, which is great!

Thanks for all the info! I've already ordered a JCWhitney catalog! :-)

Thanks for the kind welcome, Tom, as well as your input about tons of other things.

Bye4now.

Susan

tsjay · November 2003

Uh oh! Sounds like you definitely have "Wrangler Fever." Take the cure! There is only ONE cure, and that is to get one.

Hey, all of us here are willing to help ya in any way that we can. So, if you have questions, ask away.

Susan, used vehicle shopping, as I have already said, is nowhere nearly as straight forward as shopping for a new one. Just be careful and check things out with someone knowledgable in used cars. We can help ya with stuff that pertains to Jeeps in particular, but there are things that need to be checked out by someone you know and trust who could take a look at the vehicle before you buy it.

Maybe you have some experience buying used vehicles, but if not, get someone to help you. We all want to see you get just the right Jeep at the right price.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · November 2003

So you definitely have Wrangler fever! I haven't done much about aftermarket products - you can quickly run up a huge tab and I'm still catching up after putting a new roof on the house. Good luck with it, and keep us informed. That red one sounds pretty nice.

One basic thing that someone told me to check when looking at used 4x4s is the wheel wells. If they are all dented and scraped up, the vehicle has been off-roaded quite a bit. A vehicle with ones that aren't damage may not be a better buy (depends on how it was maintained, etc.) but is something to check out. I would rather buy an off-roader that has been lovingly maintained by a good mechanic than one that has never been off road but had no regular maintenance done on it.

mtngal · November 2003

We're being quiet today - I guess everyone else is out either 'wheeling, washing or test driving new Wranglers. I'm sitting here wishing I were out somewhere! The snow we had yesterday was beautiful but not enough to lift the fire closures around here. If anyone is interested in my little corner of the world when it is all white, I put up some photos at
http://community.webshots.com/album/97672750ATzUHS

My Noble Black Steed is not pictured there, just what I saw out my windows yesterday morning.

tsjay · November 2003

Nice pics, Harriet! You ought to take more/post more!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mullins87 · November 2003

I can only hope this winter is like the last one. We usually don't get much snow in Western Kentucky. However, last year we got at least 5-6 inches of snow every week from the middle of January to the first of March. I loved it, though many around here didn't. I love snow, ice is a different story. The way I look at it - if it's going to be cold then I want it to snow. If it's not going to snow, then it should warm up. I didn't have any trouble getting around last winter in my 2wd dually, but now that I have a Jeep I hope it snows knee deep to a giraffe!!!!

mtngal · November 2003

But I found out that a Wrangler won't go through everything. We had about 30" in one night, and at 4:30 in the morning we got high centered right outside our driveway. The snow we were trying to drive through was above the bumper and packed under the frame. We waited until dawn and then dug out the snow out from under the frame and backed up into our driveway. So while a Wrangler can easily handle quite a bit of snow, there is a limit!

tsjay · November 2003

I'm witcha on the snow! You must have gotten more over there around Mayfield than we did here in Greenville. At least I don't remember that much snow. I know it can vary BIG TIME from place to place in this area.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

drosketer · November 2003

Nice pics mtngal! Snow looks great, but when you have it for about 6 months of the year the concept tends to grow thin. We've been getting a light covering for the past week and while it might disappear, there is a good chance that it will stick around until late March / early April. Still, for the time being, it's fun...

Might have to put the snow tires on the ol' t-bird...

Andrew

mtngal · November 2003

LOL! I know what you mean about snow getting old after a while. I sometimes feel the same way about summer around here - I am really ready for winter now! We don't get that many days where it snows, and it usually melts off quickly so you never quite get tired of it. Last year we never had a snowy weekend - all the snow came on weekdays and was gone by the weekend (except for the higher elevations).

They've lifted the fire restrictions for our area - just in time for me to go to work. Guess I'll have to wait until next weekend to play somewhere...

nolid5 · November 2003

Loved the light on the trees in the valley. Looks like a beautiful place to live.

Rich

drosketer · November 2003

Talk about the grass being greener on the other side! We're always talking about how little warm weather we get. Funny stuff, seems that it's always nice and sunny during the weekday and raining on the weekends (sound familiar?)!

Glad to hear that the weather is cooperating as far as the fires are concerned over there. We have no such issues by this point. This morning we had another layer of fresh fall, and as I look out the window now, it's snowing again...

Andrew

Jeep Wrangler

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