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Brand Problems Swept Under The Rug

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Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Drudge and TMZ I am at a loss to say which one is less reliable.

    Again till a real news agency actually puts something up with supporting facts and police reports I will be skeptical.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Actually TMZ has been extremely reliable and has built a huge reputation the past few years. They were the first to break the Michael Jackson death, for example. Other sources like CNN would not confirm it until they had "reliable" information. Apparently TMZ has a lot of "spies" all over the place and pride themselves on being accurate.

    Note: I do not work for TMZ and am in no way affiliated with them, I just heard an interview or podcast or something that talked about their rapid evolution.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    Another source that people have historically enjoyed slamming, is the Enquirer. Fact is--and I'm not proud to say this, but it's true--they are often dead-on correct in the past several years. For instance, it wasn't a network but the Enquirer that accurately reported the whole revolting John Edwards story.

    Bill
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,325
    I agree. I would trust Drudge or TMZ a lot more that the N.Y. Times.

    In today's world of "selective" reporting by "big mainstream media," if they don 't like a story or don't agree with it, then it goes unreported or gets spun beyond recognition. Your best bet to get all the news these days is on the internet.

    For example, the N.Y. Times has not uttered one peep on what is being referred to as "climategate". Probably the biggest story on global warming ever. Their thinking is 20 years in the past where, if they did not report a story, then it just wasn't a story. This just doesn't work any more and that is why the Times is going broke. They have lost all their credibility and are not smart enough to figure it out.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I see about 16 stories with a "climate email" search at the NY Times.

    There's 103 stories found when I do a search on "Climategate" there.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,325
    Yes, buried deep in the papers science section, etc. How about any headlines or front page stories about the implications? Send me a few examples of those please !

    The 16 hits that you got are nearly all blogs from readers or from other sources rather than the Times. Where are their actual news stories and reporting from staffers?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't know, I don't "read" papers much anymore. Just the WSJ that my wife takes, and I usually don't read it everyday. I do Bing or Google News for my overview, and they'll aggregate a little bit of everything (unlike the push sites, that only link to stories they think will advance some editorial position - like the NY Times or Drudge - they're birds of a feather).

    There's 75 climate stories just on Google this morning for example. And over 7,000 "auto brand" stories at the moment.

    Like this one: :shades:

    Car buyers display brand loyalties (Omaha.com)

    But there's nothing in the story about people changing brands because of problems they had with something. Makes you wonder if all the news about car problems is overblown, like so many other news stories.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    Some more bad news for Toyota:

    1) Car and Driver magazine's 10 best cars list does not have any Toyota; while Ford has 3 (including Mazda).
    2) Motor Trend magazine named Ford Fusion Car of the Year.
    3) Toyota's consumer ratings in the Yahoo Auto continues to drop. The 2010 Camry and Corolla; the 2009 Corolla only gets 3.5 stars (which means 1/3 of the people are not happy with them). The 2009 Camry gets even lower 3 stars (which means 1/2 of the people are not happy). They are lower than most the American car ratings. More interestingly, almost all the posts with high ratings for Toyota got super low "helpful" rating from the readers of these posts while almost all the posts with low ratings for Toyota got very high "helpful" ratings from the readers of these posts. This indicates that the negative view on Toyota of the Yahoo Auto readers is much higher than the people who post reviews.

    These are in addition to the old news:

    4) Toyota's worldwide sales drop 31%
    5) Toyota lost 1.5 billion dollars in half year
    6) Toyota lost No. 1 automaker title in 2009 after being there for just 1 year
    7) Toyota produced 3.1 million cars but recalled 6 million cars in half year
    8) IIHS published the 2010 safe pick list; Ford (including Volvo) has 6 cars on the list; Toyota 0
    9) Consumer Reports give Toyota Camry V6 an average rating on reliability; while Ford Fusion gets the highest much better than average rating.
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Member Posts: 169
    I see you posted this exact same post in the 2010 Camry forum and probably others.... Your preference for Ford is clear, however your posts have a very "anti wal-mart" anti corporate giant" mentality that does not bode well for a supposed non biased impression as demonstrated in your "down with Toyota" writings.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    I saw the same reply from you in other forum as well. Are you afraid of people telling the truth? Of course this post was related to Camry because Camry was the main model in the big 4 million car recall. Toyota kept covering up the bad designs which already claimed 19 lives until the consumers and the government pushed them to acknowledge their mistakes and take action in the big recall. But the fixes they have are still artificial and not to the potential root cause. We have to keep the heat on them. I'm not the only one. Just look at how many cover page stories in the recent LA Times newspaper.

    BTW, I'm not a Ford fan.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think you are more likely to find the Whole story via a link from Drudge than any other source. Google is run by a very liberal bunch and will not help you find what you want without digging deep. Google tries to direct you to the links they approve of. NY Times is a joke. Not worth bending over to pick up if it was free.

    image

    image
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Yes, post this in a few more places, taking up people's time and space. Your first three are a big laugh - who cares? I should remind you that 2007 MT car of the year was the CAMRY, which is the same generation as is on the market right now. The others are either the similar to other companies, or not the whole story. What about the rest of the Ford line-up #9, etc. etc.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    NY Times is a joke.

    Wow, something I can agree with.

    I think the issue is that "opinion" pieces should be in the appropriate section, not on the first page of the Sunday paper.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Drudge tries to direct you to the links he approves of. Try Bing.

    Even better, let's try to stick to cars. :)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Why do you keep cross-posting stuff like this? The other poster has a point, you seem to choose only negative stuff about Toyota, so the fact that you then cross-post it across many discussions which are only tangentially related to your specific topic makes it seem like you are conducting a smear campaign.

    Best to post those thoughts in the "Toyota decline" discussion if you must continue down the single track you are on, IMHO.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I agree totally with nippononly. It's actually against Edmunds' policy to cross-post in many different threads, as it is akin to spamming.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did anyone even notice that he's lying?

    Toyota owns a big share of Subaru and they put FIVE models on the IIHS list:

    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/

    He included Mazda for Ford. Let's see...

    On November 18 2008 Ford announced that it would be selling a 20% stake in Mazda bringing its stake to 13.4%, and surrendering control of the company

    Toyota owns a bigger share of Subaru (from Edmunds):

    Japan is buzzing with news that Toyota plans to raise its stake in Fuji Heavy Industries, Subaru's parent company, from 8.7 percent up to around 17 percent

    Myths and misinformation.

    Feel free to quote me in other threads where those myths were propagated.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    You expect someone with an agenda to tell the truth or at the very least abstain from lies of omission?

    Take a look at what passes for Civil discourse in this country now none of that surprises me anymore.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not to mention IIHS hasn't even tested half the models out there yet, so many Toyotas were not even eligible.

    Where is the "roll eyes" emotorcon?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    True, and I have heard that Toyota has at least 2 models that would qualify. It's too bad Toyota didn't offer them up before the latest IIHS release.
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    Not to mention IIHS hasn't even tested half the models out there yet, so many Toyotas were not even eligible.

    Where is the "roll eyes" emotorcon?


    "Toyota was notified in January that roof strength would be a new test. The IIHS asked automakers to flag any vehicles they'd like to have included. Toyota had plenty of opportunity to flag other Toyota, Lexus or Scion models — including being present at roof strength tests at the IIHS facility — but choose not to. So IIHS assumed that there were no models that met the new guidelines. If there are other vehicles Toyota would want to include they were able to submit them at that time or at any time in the process — including right now."

    indeed where is the "roll eyes" emotorcon?

    http://jalopnik.com/5407648/iihs-fires-back-tells-toyota-to-put-cars-where-its-m- outh-is
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That still doesn't mean they failed the test.

    You know what they say about the word "assume".
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Plus it should be noted that the IIHS uses a Good-Acceptable-Marginal-Poor rating scheme for all of its tests, including the new roof strength test. A "fail" in my mind would mean Poor, Yet, the majority of vehicles tested so far scored a Good or Acceptable, including the ones not specifically submitted for testing by the manufacturers:

    Midsize moderately priced cars (Camry leads this list.)

    Small SUVs

    Minicars
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yaris leads the Minicars list as well.

    Camry gets a Good on everything except the headrests, and they're in the process of adding those (Sienna got it this year).

    I wouldn't bet against the Camry making it on the 2011 Top Safety Picks list.
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    That still doesn't mean they failed the test.

    You know what they say about the word "assume".


    actually, much like an exam, if you dont show up you fail. Face it...toyota knew they would fail and figured it would be much easier crying foul from the sidelines. If toyota was so sure they could pass they would have flagged their cars to be tested. :cry::cry::cry:
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Not necessarily -- it could mean the marketing (or accounting) people won out over the engineers.

    We shall see in the near future -- I'd bet the engineers will have their way now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I disagree. This situation is different.

    It's like being a straight A student, then they add one new course requirement after you earned your diploma and graduated with honors (the 2009 Top Safety Pick award).
  • maple2maple2 Member Posts: 177
    well that is a nice spin on things, but if this were true then nobody would have passed the testing. instead we have toyota crying that the rules changed :cry: .I got bad news for you...they changed for everybody
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good thing they had 5 models make the list, then. ;)

    Ford 6, Toyota 5.

    But wait, what's this? Headline from Automotive News, today in fact (timing is everything):

    Geely, Ford agree on Volvo intellectual property

    The deal is being finalized, and if so Ford is down to having...the Taurus and MKS.

    Toyota 5, Ford 2.

    And the Camry is an active headrest away from being added to that list.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is still a mere Camry. A very blah vehicle with nothing to excite the driver. Thankfully now it is safe. Though I question the whole headrest thing. I just do not get all the building a fortress of air bags around myself. It gives people a false sense of security. You hit a bank or a tree at slow speed you still go to the hospital. You crash at high speed with the throttle wide open you burn to a crisp. No thanks give me a big substantial vehicle to drive. I will match up your Camry to my Sequoia in a crash test at any angle.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    gagrice, that's the way to tell 'em! Don't give an inch!

    I rented a white '09 Toyota Camry at Sea-Tac this past summer. After dealing with Budget's incompetence in just getting me the right car to go with the right paperwork, I was off in to the Seattle traffic.

    The white '09 Camry actually carted me along in an enjoyable manner through the moist Emerald City. I felt safe on slower-speed roads, but at freeway speeds I did not like the way it handled, steering was awkward and the car felt "floaty". Not dangerously "floaty" just annoyingly floaty.

    Little did I know that my accelerator could've become stuck wide open at any time.
    Am I being unfair to think that, do ya'all think? From the material we've had to read in the past month or 6 weeks you couldn't argue with that fear-ish statement.

    Could you? :)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Little did I know that my accelerator could've become stuck wide open at any time.
    Am I being unfair to think that, do ya'all think? From the material we've had to read in the past month or 6 weeks you couldn't argue with that fear-ish statement.


    Only if some knucklehead did not secure the mats or decided to put in two or more mats.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    You hit a bank or a tree at slow speed you still go to the hospital.

    If you're wearing seat belts as you should, the likelihood of injuries at low speeds is very low. Airbags themselves can cause injuries, so no need for them to inflate when not required. Besides, Tiger's injuries apparently were inflicted by his enraged wife.

    I happen to like my Camrys and prefer driving them to lumbering SUVs. I feel they're big enough for safety, not like tiny cars such as the Smart or even the Yaris and Fit.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Little did I know that my accelerator could've become stuck wide open at any time.
    Am I being unfair to think that, do ya'all think? From the material we've had to read in the past month or 6 weeks you couldn't argue with that fear-ish statement.


    I'm be more fearful of the guy in the lane next to me being high or having pulled an all-nighter. Only a very small percentage of crashes are caused by vehicular malfunction.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    September 24, 2009, 2:13 pm Headlights are failing on some 2006, above, and 2007 Toyota Prius hybrids.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has decided that the failure of high-intensity-discharge headlights on what could be more than 100,000 Toyota Prius hybrids did not require a recall. The agency also closed its investigation before Toyota provided all the documentation the agency said it needed to study the issue, a decision one safety expert said was unusual. The agency began its investigation in April after receiving about 340 reports of headlight failures in 2006-7 model, including 112 reports in which owners reported losing illumination from both headlights while driving. During the investigation, the agency found there had been about 2,200 consumer complaints about the headlights failing and Toyota had received about 27,600 warranty claims on the issue. Agency documents showed more than 100,000 vehicles might have been affected. There were no reports of injuries or crashes.

    This is an ongoing problem with Toyota's using HID lights.

    Consumers filing complaints on the agency’s Web site said repair costs had ranged from $300 to $1,000. Failures occurred on vehicles with as little as 25,000 miles. The automaker is also facing a class-action suit over the headlamp failures. The suit was brought by Carlos Collado, a Prius owner, from Kent, N.Y. Filed in United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, the suit said that Toyota had long known there was a safety problem with headlights, which “sporadically stop working” and are expensive to repair, yet the company failed to warn consumers.
    In court filings Toyota’s lawyers have denied the assertions. They note that before H.I.D. headlights fail they usually begin to flicker, thus providing a warning. They have also said it is unreasonable to expect the headlights to last for the vehicle’s life any more than regular halogen headlights do.


    The replacement bulbs for my Sequoia are $9.95. Most Prius owner complaints I have read claim $900 to replace the HIDs that don't last as long as the Halogens. Toyota needs to replace those HID systems with standard type halogen lights and quit shuffling the problem under the rug. Even the Greenies are complaining about their beloved Prius.

    Toyota stung by possible Prius HID headlight defect

    We'd wager that the last thing Toyota wants in the midst of the super-important launch of its new third-generation Prius is a negative stigma attached to the previous model. Unfortunately, that's exactly what the Japanese automaker may have on its hands right now as a number of owners of 2005-2008 Toyota Prius hybrids with the "high-intensity discharge" (HID) headlight option are banding together on online forums, message boards and in possible class action lawsuits against the automaker in relation to failing headlamps.

    According to Advertising Age, these HID headlight bulbs and their associated electronics can sometimes cost well over $1,000 to replace after they've gone faulty, and Toyota is unwilling to pick up the tab.


    More to the story
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I happen to like my Camrys and prefer driving them to lumbering SUVs.

    I rented a Camry and it was fine. Not in a league with my Sequoia. Not a chance I would switch or buy anything that low to the ground. Well maybe for just a runabout for local shopping. If I could handle looking up at all the vehicles around me I would have kept the 05 Passat Wagon. It got 40 MPG on the highway. It was a lot more fun to drive than any Camry ever built. Different strokes :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sure it's boring but that's all most people want.

    Plus, the point here is it'll very likely be on that IIHS Top Safety Picks list when the active headrests are added.
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    I am still looking for a good vehicle to haul my 2 large dogs around, and I am considering a Passat Wagon as well as a minivan or an SUV. Are Passats reliable? Reliability, safety, and handling are my main requirements. I guess they are expensive to maintain, though.

    Also, why are there so few available? I looked on cars.com and autotrader, and there are very few for sale.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you are looking for a last generation Passat Wagon diesel. They are nearly non existent. I could have sold a dozen for more than I paid new. The new Jetta Sportswagen is about the same size and has more power and uses less diesel. Again they are not easy to find. And harder to make a deal on. Other than some early issues with the DSG transmission programming they seem to be reliable from the owners posting here on Edmund's. I found VW maintenance much cheaper than Toyota maintenance. My Sequoia cost $53 for cheapo dyno oil changes at two dealers. One in San Diego the other in Evansville Indiana. The TDI oil changes are 10k miles instead of 5k and the dealer charged $51 for the proper synthetic oil in my Passat.

    PS
    I think the last generation Passat Wagon was one of the best looking vehicles on the road. And it was fun to drive.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Passats are NOT reliable. Run away.

    Have you looked at the Honda Element? Many people think it's ugly, and it seats only 4 (as opposed to 5+ for most vehicles), but the lower line models have a plastic, easily cleanable floor as opposed to carpeting. There's lots of room in the cargo area, and the car is an IIHS Top Safety Pick.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I won't argue the reliable issue on the Passat here. My experience of 13 months of ownership was all good.

    I agree the Element is ugly, though very functional. It gets poor mileage compared to the VW TDI models. I don't think you can argue that it is any safer than a Passat. It does offer AWD which is a plus. If it got decent mileage I would consider one in spite of the UGLY body. As far as the VW Sportwagen TDI. Many owners are reporting double the mileage of Element owners. For the lack of power the Element is a gas hog. It has 40% less torque than the Jetta TDI. It has 25% less cargo space than the VW Sportwagen. None of which has been swept under the rug. It is all available here on Edmund's. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    IIHS Top Safety Picks in that class:

    SMALL SUVs
    Honda Element
    Jeep Patriot - with optional side torso airbags
    Subaru Forester
    Volkswagen Tiguan

    You could add small wagons from that list: Soul, Cube, Impreza, Golf, A3, Outback, Jetta, Passat.

    I guess the Outback and Passat are a big bigger.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I have a B5 Passat (2005) wagon with 60K. Amazingly, I've had basically zero problems with it outside of a couple of CEL's fixed under warranty in 4.5 years of ownership.

    It's a great handling car, gets 25 mpg regularly and hauls plenty of lacrosse and camping gear.

    The current B6 Passat wagon is almost impossible to find.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    An old friend of mine has a Passat wagon of around that vintage, and he hasn't had any problems with his either.

    VW's rep does make one wonder.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    The current B6 Passat wagon is almost impossible to find.

    I thought I read that the Passat wagon had been cancelled for the remainder of the run of the current Passat, as the Jetta wagon is almost the same size?

    As you may know, the 2011 Passat arriving next year will be a very different animal, a much larger sedan designed in and produced solely for North America (big, cheap, and soft for "American tastes"). Not sure if there will be a wagon available, but I imagine they will offer a diesel.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    Alas, the Jetta wagon is almost exactly the same size as my Mazda 3 (179 inches long and 70 inches wide). The Passat wagon is 188 inches long and 72 inches wide.

    I have an 80 pound Lab and a 57 pound German Shorthaired Pointer. I need some extra room! ;)
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    I love the new Honda Element dog friendly vehicle (they know who their target audience is!), but it is a very short vehicle. My daughter was teasing me that if I bought the Element, my Lab's tail would be waving out the back as I drove along. I think I need more space than what it offers. :(

    I appreciate all suggestions, though. Thanks.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    As you may know, the 2011 Passat arriving next year will be a very different animal, a much larger sedan designed in and produced solely for North America (big, cheap, and soft for "American tastes"). Not sure if there will be a wagon available, but I imagine they will offer a diesel.

    My understanding is that the new mid-size model has yet to have a name. It will grow in size to be more of a Camcord competitor and will be built at their new plant in Chattanooga. I doubt it will offer a wagon. A diesel will probably be offered.

    The Passat name supposedly will stay with the CC and a new model will be coming out around 2013 with perhaps a wagon variant. It will continue to be made in Germany and will be priced as such.
  • aussiejohnactaussiejohnact Member Posts: 1
    Mander Toyota employ liars & perjurors
    read the full story here http://austlawpublish.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester might work. CR has a biggest-box test and the Forester does well for its class.

    Think of that box as a large dog crate.

    If you want to measure to compare, the Forester's cargo floor is 102" long from the center console all the way back. Not sure about the Element, but check it.
This discussion has been closed.