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Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

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Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >“I am deeply sorry,” Toyoda, the grandson of the automaker’s founder, told Japan’s NHK.

    At least he wasn't wearing a hospital mask like the representatives were in the ABC News story when ABC was outside the Japan Headquarters...
    You know how you need the mask for protection from the germs of the unwashed North American masses. :D

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    since you are a software guru, give this a thought...
    any software change has to be tested against all possible engine/transmission/ECU combinations before Toyota can provide a software update that they will feel confident about.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Since first importing cars to the United States more than five decades ago, Toyota Motor Corp. has slowly and steadily built itself into the world's preeminent automaker, developing a strong reputation for technical expertise and reliability.

    Now two major recalls and Tuesday's decision to suspend making and selling eight models because of a safety issue put Toyota's gains at risk.

    How well the Japanese automaker responds may determine whether it can avoid the inexorable trends that eventually sent former industry leader General Motors Corp. into bankruptcy last year -- an aging customer base and a seeming inability to tackle quality issues squarely.

    Unless it can quickly identify and come up with a fix for the occasional but sometimes deadly acceleration problems that have plagued its vehicle line, there will be more formerly loyal customers, such as John Whiffen of Malibu, who will flee to other brands.

    Whiffen, a longtime Toyota fan who prized the vehicles for their feeling of safety, began having sudden-acceleration problems last spring with one of the two Highlander sport utility vehicles in the family, which also owns a Lexus.

    But his dealer downplayed the first three incidents, and Whiffen continued driving it until a fourth incident in August sent his SUV into a wall, causing $12,000 in damage.

    This week, nearly six months later, he said, the dealer's service department called to tell him the vehicle had no problems and checked out fine. For Whiffen, a retired orthopedic surgeon, it was the last straw.

    "I thought Toyota was a very good company and built good products," Whiffen said. "Now I wouldn't even consider buying a Toyota in the future. This whole event tells me that they don't value my life, and that means I should never buy another car from them."

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Man, I have to ask, why are you so obsessed with Toypota's problems that you are making a campaign of dragging a wounded company through the mud?

    I mean, it's bad enough!
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "why are you so obsessed with Toypota's problems that you are making a campaign of dragging a wounded company through the mud? "

    I see a bunch of lawyers, class action lawsuits, contingency payments and a pile of gold underneath a sign that reads "settlement".
  • steveayzsteveayz Member Posts: 28
    I want to believe in Toyota sincerity but we all know they would never make this public on their own. I own 2 Toyota's myself 2009 Camry and 2008 Highlander. Camry is part of gas pedal recall I patiently waiting for a fix while driving potentially unsafe car. Toyota's policy over the years turned out to be a complete cover up and up front lies. Then bigger they grew then more they preferred to ignore customer's complains and their own design flaws. I'm sure everybody remember V6 sludge issue that took years for Toyota to admit. Toyota knew about sudden acceleration for years but preferred to keep it quiet and didn't attempt to find solution on their own. Now they are struggling to come up with a resolution within short time frame and worst part that gas pedal replacement most likely will not cure sudden acceleration in 100% of cases since it is a possible combination of multiple factors such as a gas pedal , engine sensors and controls, software that manages the engine, throttle body electrical drive and sensors. Replacing only the pedal will make Toyota look like they found 100% cure and get a permission from NHTSA to resume car sales. There is another problem brewing with Toyota's V6 engines - faulty oil line that can rapture and cause a fire but Toyota's not in hurry to take any action before people get killed or injured. Read more here http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "we all know they would never make this public on their own."

    how do you know they wouldn't?

    how do you know that I know that they wouldn't?

    how do you know that others know that they wouldn't?

    if not, why did you say that we all know that they wouldn't?
  • steveayzsteveayz Member Posts: 28
    First, sudden acceleration instances didn't surface yesterday and had happened with various Toyota models long before. If you look at Toyota previous practices (sludge) and current (V6 oil line) you might notice that Toyota is not taking responsibility for own design flaws without much pressure.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hey folks, again this discussion is about the Camry. Please go to the link at the top of the page for general Toyota discussion.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Good ones, keep them coming!

    I see I really didn't miss much the last few days (just catching up). I agree with isellhonda's take on this. ;)
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..wounded company..."

    Yes, bad enough to have shot yourself in one foot, but both...??!!
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "First, sudden acceleration instances didn't surface yesterday and had happened with various Toyota models long before."

    any anomaly can be attributed to three factors: the car, the environment, or the driver. With their large sales number, it is bound to happen that some Toyota vehicles will end up be driven by stupid drivers in dangerous environment. so the fact that "sudden acceleration" existed with Toyota vehicles shouldn't be surprising to any intelligent person - think the sudden acceleration stories on Audi.

    it is difficult to establish what truly happened in those incidents, as you can see how difficult it is to establish with the current crop of sudden acceleration stories:

    1. the often quoted stories of that 911 call happened with a Lexus that is not under this recall.
    2. no one could establish what those drivers were doing when their vehicles suddenly accelerated.
    3. no one could establish why "sticky" pedals can cause acceleration.
    4. no one could establish why they vehicles couldn't be stop'd via the brake.
    5. no one could establish exactly how many vehicles suffer from this problem.

    ....

    so far, we have lots of speculations and concerns and hysteria and sensationalized stories for people with varied motives. Rather than laying your blame on anybody else, we are better served to just sit tight, learn to drive safely, and let's the chips fall where they ought to.
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    end of the day, no amount of engineering can stop stupid and incompetent drivers from getting involved in an accident.

    to me, the question should be what WE the driving public can do about those accidents. everyone of those guys that couldn't stop their vehicles from accelerating should have their licenses suspended immediately.

    But then, we have so many of those incompetent drivers / voters such a measure would never pass.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    That's going to get even better mileage for toyota in the now awakened media: blame the driver for the car problem. That's actually what toyota did with the floor mat problem and the years of people telling the dealer their car accelerated and having the service writer pat them on the back and say, "Sure it did." "But we don't find anything wrong."

    >it is difficult to establish what truly happened in those incidents, as you can see how difficult it is to establish with the current crop of sudden acceleration stories:

    >1. the often quoted stories of that 911 call happened with a Lexus that is not under this recall.

    Exactly. That points to another cause in the drive-by-wire system, now doesn't it. :cry:

    >2. no one could establish what those drivers were doing when their vehicles suddenly accelerated.

    Base on cell call and the feeling I would have if my car were accelerating full throttle, what they were doing was HOLDING ON FOR DEAR LIFE AND PRAYING :sick:


    >3. no one could establish why "sticky" pedals can cause acceleration.

    That's obvious: the pedal sticks because of a cheap pivot bushing mechanism and stays partly down instead of returning to the correct idle position like most cars would do. The partly open throttle accelerates the car. :P

    >4. no one could establish why they vehicles couldn't be stop'd via the brake.

    That's been well-answered. The open throttle plate lowers the vacuum in the intake manifold. The loss of vacuum means no vacuum to replace vacuum in the brake booster after the pedal has gone down two times or more, hence loss of assist due to no vacuum. (Vacuum is just absence of normal air pressure, but I'll treat it as an actual entity to use the colloquial method of thinking and conversing about lower air pressure which gives the assist in the brake booster mechanism.

    >5. no one could establish exactly how many vehicles suffer from this problem.

    That's the most illogical of all these arguments. What does that have to do with the unintended, uncontrolled acceleration? Nichts. But we can blame the driver for not knowing how many cars toyota has built in the last 10 years with this problem?


    >so far, we have lots of speculations and concerns and hysteria and sensationalized stories for people with varied motives. Rather than laying your blame on anybody else,

    I would determine the worse thing to do is blame the driver for what toyota has hidden, twisted, attempted to mislead via report styles for NHSTA, etc.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • deminindeminin Member Posts: 214
    What cracks me up is the reported Toyota "solution" until a fix is implemented. If the media reporting is correct, Toyota recommends mashing the brake pedal with both feet, and shifting the car into Neutral. Yup, that should work real well. As soon as the transmission goes into Neutral, the engine will race uncontrolled to Red Line, or beyond, and probably do some serious internal damage. Then, when the motive force is removed from the drive train, and the driver has the brake pedal mashed to the floor, the car will probably go into a skid, and wind up in the ditch.

    However, that will sure solve the gas pedal problem when the car is totalled with both a blown engine and severe structural damage after the wreck.
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Brings new meaning to "Oh What A Feeling", but in a very bad way. :sick:

    And to make matters worse, they now claim to have a "FIX" for a problem that haven't even truly identified the underlining problem.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The sludge problem was caused by owners who skimped on oil changes. The majority had no problems.
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    The sludge problem was caused by owners who skimped on oil changes. The majority had no problems.

    Well, not exactly, that is the spin that Toyota tried to indicate, but far from the truth as always:

    You've entered the Toyota Sludge Zone
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..spin that Toyota tried to indicate.."

    Not so much Toyota directly, but their "shills", paid and unpaid, now obviously at work here also.
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "the engine will race uncontrolled to Red Line, or beyond, and probably do some serious internal damage."

    put your camry's transmission in neutral and step on the gas, hard, ,and report back to us how your statement above is wrong.

    you can do that safely in your garage, in case you don't know.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Yes, most engines of today have an RPM limiting device, but I would NEVER suggest that anyone intentionally test its limits/limiting. Very few engines will ever reach this limited under load, and even fewer unloaded, so doing so intentionally may self-destruct the engine.
  • jofallonjofallon Member Posts: 29
    Since it actually did happen to me, I can report, that yes, it did go over the red line; with foot on brake and off gas and car in neutral.
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    "so doing so intentionally may self-destruct the engine."

    drinking water may choke you to death; does that mean you shouldn't drink water?
    walking outside will expose you to sun light and potentially cause cancer. does that mean you shouldn't go outside?
    ...

    "may", "could", etc. they just sound too lawyer to be of any value.

    yes, you can safely step on your gas pedal with the car in neutral. that's what red line limiters are for.
  • millwood0millwood0 Member Posts: 451
    then your car doesn't have a limiter or the limiter is malfunctioning.
  • jofallonjofallon Member Posts: 29
    I might suspect the limiter is in the on-board computer these days. 07 Camry with one firmware upgrade...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    This isn't a sludge topic but for the people who changed their oil often never had a problem.

    Our shop sees Hondas that get an oil change once every 20,000 miles!

    Toyotas may be more sludge prone but for people like me who are fussy about oil changes would never have a problem.

    Just another anti- Toyota item for you to drag through the mud, huh?
  • revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    steveayz, very well stated: Toyota's policy is to never acknowledge problems publicly unless enforced, and even then they only address a small percentage of the true underlining issue to what is actually causing the sudden acceleration.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "...that's what red line limiters are for..."

    No, red line limiters are strictly for instances of inadvertent or unintentionally engine over-revving.

    Even under load, rapidly accelerating in 1st gear, if my '78 911 happens to reach the rev limiter then..

    BLAM...!!

    It feels as if something in the driveline went SOUTH.

    With no engine load that might well be too much stress on the engine wherein inertia might take the engine well beyond the rev limit.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    If I remember the letter I recieved on this issue regarding my '01 F/awd RX300 stated that while oil changes should be done at the recommended intevals my engine might still develop sludging. Also, from what might be my faulty memory, didn't Toyota admit to making casting changes in the block to alleviate the sludging problem for new production??
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I guess we've finished talking specifically about the Camry's safety issues. I invite everyone to click on the link at the top of the page to continue the conversation you've been having here.

    See ya there!!
This discussion has been closed.

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