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Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

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Comments

  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "The option of solving the problem by giving up the car they have chosen and paid for is not something most of us would do;"

    that's a perfectly reason proposition.

    the original poster I was replying to said s/he just wanted to "end the fear of a runaway car". to me, the solution to his/her problem is so easy that it doesn't even justify asking for it.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    That is exactly the problem here with Toyota. From a company who has built their reputation on supposedly building the best cars and trucks in the industry, there reputation is beginning to unwind.

    First they claim there is no problem, then there might be a problem, and now a recall.

    What is the REAL underlining issue?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,073
    >Only the fiercely independent will do whatever it takes to end an unpleasant situation immediately.

    That's a good assessment
  • " I just want to end the fear of a runaway car. "

    "that can be easily solved: don't drive the car; give the car away; sell the car; donate th car"

    So you are going to subject someone else to the possible danger of the car?
    Are you willing to take on the Legal Ramifications of that too?
    When you give, sell or donate the car.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,837
    While it is a logical solution, do you really think many people, regardless of the reason for doing so, give away tens of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise as their first course of action?

    If a person had a reasonable fear about the electrical wiring in their home, and worried that its faulty installation could cause a fire, would you anticipate the solution to be to give the house away? Of course not.

    Sometimes primary reactions based on fear aren't the best. It's a good idea to think these things through and look for other solutions. Even if mako1a's wife won't ride in the car, there's no immediate mad rush to get rid of it today - it's not going to break into the house and poke them with hot sticks while they sleep.

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  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    it's not going to break into the house and poke them with hot sticks while they sleep.

    Well if this problem carries over into the Lexus brand, we could see one of those flagship sedans auto-park itself into your neighbor's bedroom, when you're trying to park in front of your house. :D
  • "While it is a logical solution, do you really think many people, regardless of the reason for doing so, give away tens of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise as their first course of action? "

    My theory has been if you have a problem get rid of it and move on. I had a 2008 Honda Accord that had many issue's and Honda is in the denial mode just like Toyota. After battling Honda I traded that car in and bought a Fusion and since Honda has been clever enough to keep a good reputation even when you look at their forums that are full of problems I was able to get $2000.00 less than what I paid for it 2 years ago. I say if you do not trust your Toyota get rid of it before the resale value goes down the tube.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Agreed. This is the simplest and easiest way to minimize the agita in life. Sell it.

    If something dissatisfies ya, move on and get something else that pleases you. Why obsess? In fact there may only be a potential risk in very very isolated cases. But the facts are that there are millions of these on the road with no issues....such as the OP's own vehicle and several more owned by posters herein....which indicates that the risk is miniscule if it even exists.

    Those like mako's wife certainly have the right to their own views but then that's just a personal decision. Keep it or sell it. Move on and be happy.
  • "I LOVE my Camry. The Ford Fusion isn't anything special just so you know. "

    Except the Fusion will not accelerate unless you want it too. I hope your Camry loves you too. :lemon:
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    "I LOVE my Camry. The Ford Fusion isn't anything special just so you know. "

    Except the Fusion will not accelerate unless you want it too. I hope your Camry loves you too


    Well said. It appears that Toyota has done a great job to brain wash their customers to be in denial as well, for their benefits.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "If a person had a reasonable fear about the electrical wiring in their home, and worried that its faulty installation could cause a fire, would you anticipate the solution to be to give the house away? "

    if a person insists on ending his / her fear of runaway car just because he/she heard some stories on TV, does that sound like a "reasonable" fear to you?
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 259
    "I hope your Camry loves you too."

    Don't worry, my Camry definitely loves me and it's a much better vehicle than your Fusion. :lemon:
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "So you are going to subject someone else to the possible danger of the car?
    Are you willing to take on the Legal Ramifications of that too?
    When you give, sell or donate the car."

    are you suggesting that you haven't subjected others to possible dangers?

    the only way of your not doing that is your non-existence. Killing oneself on the spot isn't sufficient because one's death can easily subject many others to possible danger.

    if you have never existed, you may have a plausible argument that you may not have subjected others to possible dangers.

    even in that, the people you could have saved would argue otherwise.

    so I am not sure if you can ever avoid not subjecting others to possible dangers. then are you willing to take on the Legal Ramifications of that too?

    guess not.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 259
    "Well said. It appears that Toyota has done a great job to brain wash their customers to be in denial as well, for their benefits."

    I don't let anybody brain wash me. I also own other vehicles other than a Toyota Camry, so I wouldn't say that I am brain washed by Toyota. Get your facts right boy.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    I'm sure you would be signing another tune if UA happened to you and your beloved Camry. The way I look at it is like it's the roll of a dice. It will happen to some and let's just hope your number doesn't come up on that dice.

    Good luck with your beloved Camry. Personally, I'd just buy another brand and move on.
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    Personally, I'd just buy another brand and move on.

    and if you think ANY manufacturer is immune from these types of problems, you'd be very mistaken.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Here is the link to the letter from Toyota to the NHTSA laying out the scope ( TBD ) and potential cause of these complaints.

    Letter from TMS to NHTSA

    #5. Description of Problem

    NHTSA's summary:
    Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
    PONTIAC / VIBE 2009
    TOYOTA / AVALON 2005-2010
    TOYOTA / CAMRY 2007-2010
    TOYOTA / COROLLA 2009-2010
    TOYOTA / COROLLA MATRIX 2009-2010
    TOYOTA / HIGHLANDER 2010
    TOYOTA / RAV4 2009-2010
    TOYOTA / SEQUOIA 2008-2010
    TOYOTA / TUNDRA 2007-2010
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 10V017000
    Summary:
    TOYOTA IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2005-2010 AVALON, MODEL YEAR 2007-2010 CAMRY, MODEL YEAR 2009-2010 COROLLA, COROLLA MATRIX, RAV4, MODEL YEAR 2010 HIGHLANDER, MODEL YEAR 2008-2010 SEQUOIA, AND MODEL YEAR 2007-2010 TUNDRA. DUE TO THE MANNER IN WHICH THE FRICTION LEVER INTERACTS WITH THE SLIDING SURFACE OF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL INSIDE THE PEDAL SENSOR ASSEMBLY, THE SLIDING SURFACE OF THE LEVER MAY BECOME SMOOTH DURING VEHICLE OPERATION. IN THIS CONDITION, IF CONDENSATION OCCURS ON THE SURFACE, AS MAY OCCUR FROM HEATER OPERATION (WITHOUT A/C) WHEN THE PEDAL ASSEMBLY IS COLD, THE FRICTION WHEN THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL IS OPERATED MAY INCREASE, WHICH MAY RESULT IN THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL BECOMING HARDER TO DEPRESS, SLOWER TO RETURN, OR, IN THE WORST CASE, MECHANICALLY STUCK IN A PARTIALLY DEPRESSED POSITION.
    Consequence:
    THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY BECOME HARD TO DEPRESS, SLOW TO RETURN TO IDLE, OR, IN THE WORST CASE, MECHANICALLY STUCK IN A PARTIALLY DEPRESSED POSITION, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
  • "THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY BECOME HARD TO DEPRESS, SLOW TO RETURN TO IDLE, OR, IN THE WORST CASE, MECHANICALLY STUCK IN A PARTIALLY DEPRESSED POSITION, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH"

    I heard on the news that Toyota was going to cut some of the gas pedal off of every car that has been recalled until they come up with a permanent fix? Now I read above that it is a mechanical sticking problem so how is making the gas pedal shorter going to help? So far I have lost my floor mats and now half my gas pedal whats next?
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 259
    I am not worried about it. Toyota build excellent quality vehicles. This gas pedal issue is NOT a big deal. You people are making a BIG deal out of nothing. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over this. Drive your Camry and enjoy it. You only live once.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You're mixing up two different situations.

    Your first comment is about the bogus NHTSA-forced recall where they want Toyota to protect the public from stupid actions on the part of owners and others ( like Lexus dealers ); i.e. reshape the pedal so that you can get a brick and several layers of floor mats under the pedal without trapping it. Nobody is touching my mats nor the gas pedal on my Prius. The two can't come anywhere near one another. Common sense goes a long way in life.

    The second comment is more likely the real issue in the vast majority of cases where no one has been able to find any cause yet. TBD.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,073
    The pedal allegations is the first recall of 3.5 million cars:
    Many people who experienced unintended acceleration are like this couple and don't believe the pedal explanation. Take a look at that mat. it's well designed with a large open area where the heel of the shoe would normally rest on a plastic area on the car's own original mat.

    http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8996722

    Second, the admission by Toyo that there may be a mechanical problem, only a mechanical problem, in the next round of recalls. They say it could be a polishing effect on the surfaces that rub being affected by moisture due to the heater? I can't see the physics they're alleging to be occuring there. When the heater is blowing warmer air, the relative humidity is down and any condensate on the pedal parts, which are inside the car, would be warming up.

    Third, note in the video in this ABC News report

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/runaway-toyotas-problem-persists-recall/story?id=9- 618735&page=1

    that the Toyo dealer replaced the interior drive-by-wire parts and the throttle body which are the parts on the engine, but all of these changes were exclusive of any other controlling parts such as the powertrain control-the computer or the cruise control computer.

    Notice that Mr. Haggerty was able to check the pedal and the floor mat area in the car. He was not in a high traffic area like the San Diego state patrolman. Mr. Haggerty says it was not intrusion by the mat under the pedal.

    The effect of the acceleration by at least one complaint I've read said it felt just like the cruise control taking over and accelerating the car.

    Appearances are that we're creeping up on Toyo slowly having to admit to a real problem which is in the electronics controlling the system. Some of the problems may be in a sensor having worn so much in cars that are relatively new that they may be sticky due to water on the contact surfaces? Where exactly does this water come from?

    As Judge Judy says if something doesn't sound logical then it's not.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Both 'News' organizations are building circumstantial cases from reports but without any facts. Nothing more. They then leave it to the viewer/reader to make a judgment - or misjudgement such as above - based on these lack of facts and the prejudices of the viewer / reader.

    Toyota OTOH has presented a factual case to the NHTSA. Everything else is speculation by uninformed distant parties.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "Here is the link to the letter from Toyota to the NHTSA laying out the scope ( TBD ) and potential cause of these complaints. "

    that's interesting.

    the cause, according to toyota, is essentially that the gas pedal can get stuck.

    what I never understood from the sensationalized news stories produced for the mass is what were the drivers doing when that happened? they kept talking about acceleration - which seems to be consistent with Toyota's story of stuck gas pedal.

    but how about the brakes? none of the stories mentioned anything about the drivers attempting to brake.

    it seems to me if your car is accelerating uncontrollably, a competent driver's first reaction should be to brake. No matter how powerful of an engine, it cannot possibly overcome a functional brake.

    so what were those drivers doing with regards to their brakes when the accidents took place?

    is this a case of incompetent drivers + dumb news media compounded by design flaws, like the Audi story?

    or there is something more to the Toyota admission?
  • "if your car is accelerating uncontrollably, a competent driver's first reaction should be to brake"

    While reaching for the shifter - manual or automatic - and shifting to NEUTRAL.

    My father taught me that back in the 1950s and nothing has changed. When I took driver's ed in the '60s they taught the same thing. Cars back then had mechanical linkages and would get really gunked up with leaking engine oil and road grime and the accelerator could easily stick.

    John
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Posts: 749
    I am not worried about it. Toyota build excellent quality vehicles. This gas pedal issue is NOT a big deal. You people are making a BIG deal out of nothing. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over this. Drive your Camry and enjoy it. You only live once.

    ;)
  • "but how about the brakes?"

    From what I have read if the car is in full throttle mode and you are already going 50 or higher your brakes will heat up very quickly and wear very quickly and who knows how all the other safety devices help this situation get worse like the EBD system that has your back brakes do most of the stopping and how about the ABS that all cars have today that prevent your wheels from skidding but that means the brake can not lock the wheel up and this could be why they could not stall their engine and eventually melt their brakes. I would say that those people probably put the brake pedal through the floor board but did not think about disconnecting the engine from the transmission (neutral)
  • "This gas pedal issue is NOT a big deal"

    gtgtcobra:
    Come on are you for real? Toyota is recalling 3.5 million cars because of this problem so they think its a big deal and I am sure there are many families that have been affected by this that thinks its a big deal. Sometimes I think you are arguing the facts just for the fun of arguing?
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "From what I have read if the car is in full throttle mode and you are already going 50 or higher your brakes will heat up very quickly and wear very quickly and who knows how all the other safety devices help this situation get worse like the EBD system that has your back brakes do most of the stopping and how about the ABS that all cars have today that prevent your wheels from skidding but that means the brake can not lock the wheel up and this could be why they could not stall their engine and eventually melt their brakes. "

    if you were right we would have tons of accidents all over the highway around the country because those vehicles go much faster than 50mph and most of modern vehicles have esd/abs if you look at the engines most of them output 200 - 300 pound-ft torque at the flywheel and much less at the driving wheels and i have yet to hear problems of people slowing down at high speed or cars taking off with the brake floored so in the absence of additional information i will go with the assumption that the drivers are to blame for their own incompetency otherwise the story is very hard to comprehend and the absence of braking information in the news reporting looks suspicious but that's just me
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 336
    "toyota builds excellent quality vehicles"?

    Do some research on the internet not only about the
    runaway acceleration issue but also did you hear
    about:

    1. Sludge - still a big problem in used Toyotas

    2. Rusting frames on Tacomas and Tundras to
    the point where parts bolted to them including
    gas tanks are falling offf the vehicles while
    driven
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    hackattack5 - I agree completely.

    Worst of all this is the sticking accelerator pedals have resulted in 16 deaths and 243 injuries; who is there now for those families and the those that have lost their loved ones?

    Everytime I read this article I am just speechless:

    LA Times details Toyota history of concealing safety issues

    The following reader comments give a much broader scope to the issue than from just the few here on this forum:

    Comments

    And more comments: More Reader Comments
This discussion has been closed.